No preparations, blitz allowed, takes place in a desert with several abandoned buildings. Bizzaro versus Darkseid. Who would win and why?
Bizzaro Versus Darkseid
@frozen said:
- He isn't, but he is one of them, he wrote her to be at a very comparable level if not more powerful.
I dont disagree they arent very close, thats been more or less the point all around.
- He defeated her using a Kryptonite ring, which was unncessary but regardless, the point still stands
The Kryptonite ring would have made a difference if Kryptonite affected only Supergirl and not Superman. If anything Superman was being exposed to the ring far longer than Supergirl.
Its just a good handy way of taking a Kryptonian down without much collateral damage.
- using a Loeb instance is already contradicted by Supergirl punching him and nothing happening.
In a story where the whole point was to draw Darkseid out and have Superman defeat him. Not to mention you are putting too much stock on one punch from Supergirl and ignoring Superman basically overpowering Darkseid handily.
- This is not the only incosistencey he wrote, Flash running out of Oxygen from running to The Moon is another
And?
The idea of 2 writers colliding isnt a new things, and i have not even entirely relied on Leob either.
Your disagreement on Leob doesnt take the potrayal of other writers.
- If we take non-canon, Darkseid has beaten Superman and other of Earth's heroes.
When Super Power vol 1? Later in the same series Superman and Dr. Fate defeat Darkseid whose powers were amplified 1000 folds..
Again another similar alternate reality is Red Glass, where Superman killed Darkseid.
Another similar story, albiet not an alternate reality but different time period, a young Clark Kent nearly killed young Darkseid during Quite Darkness.
Relying on a non-canon story isnt the best thing to do, nor does it really help substantiate the case.
- Yes, in regards to Apokolips Now - I can cite you several instances of Darkseid not needing eyes for Omega Force
But you will be ignoring the fact that Darkseid was massively weakened by a barrage of Superman hits.
Again, keeping all your stock on 1 part of the conversation and ignoring the fact that the other part of the same confrontation shows Superman physically superior to Darkseid again is selective screening.
- hell even Jurgens wrote a weakened Darkseid using OE
Through his eyes.. O_o..
How does that contradict anything.
- In OWAW, there was no indication he was physically weakened, in fact he is rather casually talking to Wonder Woman.
You mean other than Darkseid himself saying he needs time to re-charge his omega beam?
You are missing the point, point was when weakened Darkseid has had trouble using omega effect in the past just as well.
Idea is when weakened Darkseid omega effect might not work precisely like it would when he isnt.
How he was weakened should take very little away.
I dont agree.
Well keep berating writers to ignore on canon evidence, i simply cant agree with you.
I change my idea based on panel potrayal, you dont its up to you.
Despite the fact that Superman fought the same guy for 30 pages who defeated Darkseid in a single one.
You can like the idea , you can dislike the idea. For every issue suggesting Darkseid superiority over Superman there are just as many, if not more, suggesting Darkseid inferiority or perhaps equality.
And thats ALL he did.
Dropping someone on the ground and leaving is hardly a victory, when the other doesnt get a chance to fight back, specially when the character in question has actually fought back he has beaten Darkseid.
Just because he is shown grabbing Superman by the neck doesnt automatically mean he KOed him, and thats ignoring how the next time they fought, in the same issue, Superman perfectly matched Darkseid blow for blow.
Selective screening at best.
You are simply looking at instance that merely hints Darkseid being more powerful and ignoring everything suggesting otherwise.
Its not evidence on unbias interpretation.
Presumably you are talking about Superman Confidential, that actually suggest Darkseid is superior to Superman.
But we cant look at 1 comics and ignore at least 3 others that contradict that.
Now this is just biased interpretation. Right after Darkseid hit Superman, Superman is fine and looking to actually come back to finish a fight before he is stopped by everyone involved.
That doesnt even suggest Darkseid is superior to him.
@killemall: Just to clarify, I don't think Darkseid is far stronger, regardless.
- Collateral damage to where though? There was never any implication of that he feared collateral damage in his fight with her, now I do think he really didn't need it (IIRC he didn't use it in the animated film, but just knocked her out) but to the point, Loeb was massively incosistent in this series. It doesn't stop there, Loeb has once IIRC written Batman to withstand a punch from bloodlust Superman, it goes on
- Yes, Flash running out of oxygen was garbage writing. He's done the exact same feat before and was fine, and of course the speed force would have protected
- Non-canon stories, in the New-52 (which is not canon to Post-Crisis), Darkseid has made Earth 2 Superman into his own soldier, in Superman; The Dark Side, Sperman was less powerful considerably, in the Galactus crossover he tanks a blast from Galactus. Recently in the New-52, Superman said he's the only being he's faced that could have destroyed the Earth 3 verse
- It's not selective screening --- the comic was badly written because of that, it confirmed lack of writer knowledge when all other showings demonstrate Darkseid does not need his own eyes to use Omega Effect
- Jurgens wrote a weakened Darkseid using OE
- Yes, thank you for using OWAW - I should note that Darkseid looks fine, he isn't beaten, he's smiling at her, there's no indication he is physically weak, but his OE may be, when he recharges the OE is seen
- ..Um, yes it should - The Source has a greater connection to his power, getting weakened from The Source is not remotely similar to getting weakened by punches
- I'm sure Superman expert @lvenger may agree, either way I'm intersted in his opinion: Superman is NOT equal to H/P Doomsday, come on - each member of the League at least exceed him in one ability, Flash is faster, Kyle is more powerful, Martian is more versatile, and yet Superman is equal to the guy who can stomp them with ease?
- Actually, in the fight Superman is indicated to be KO'd from what we can see, which is a legitimate win
- Yes, he layed him to the ground, hurt pretty easily
- Yes, in the next fight it's more even, despite the bad dosage of heat vision = omega beams, a blood-lust Superman in the next fight was not beating Darkseid, merely matching him in strength in some regard
- Superman is angry, charges at Darkseid with speed and is smacked away. There was never indication that Darkseid was angry either though
The only real times Superman has held his own, without speed and PIS, is the second OWAW fight, yet he was enraged and still could not beat DS who wasn't even using all his powers, and Countdown to Final Crisis in which he angrily punched Darkseid away, two reliable instances, let's count for Darkseid.
- Our Worlds at War - KO's Superman
- Adventures of Superman - lays him down to the ground with a single blast, quite casually
- Superman: Confidential - Superman is overpowered
- Cosmic Odyssey - Angry Superman gets swatted away from a casual Darkseid
But, mainly it's Darkseid's feats outside of Superman PIS are much, much more reliable. His fights with Superman don't really represent his true powerset/abilities.
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