Akira Toriyama, the author of Dragon Ball Z, and the company he works with are the only official source of information regarding Dragon Ball Z. Fantasy is not reality. People’s opinions about what they shouldn’t be able to do can’t matter at all. Internet nerds’ opinions don’t count. Akira Toriyama wrote in the manga (Japanese comic book) that Cell could destroy the solar system and the company printed material that confirms it. Comic books are fantasies and break the laws of physics all the time by having people run at millions of times the speed of light and other such impossibilities. If such a thing were even possible, the friction alone would incinerate everything. Now to the point, below are counter arguments to arguments that are in common use. Following that is proof from the manga and official printed material.
Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the solar system one planet at a time.”
Counter Argument: “That line never appeared in the manga or anime.”
Argument: “Cell was going to destroy the sun.”
Counter Argument: “That statement never appeared in the manga or anime. What Akira Toriyama, the author, wrote for Cell is “I’ve already gathered enough ki power to blow away not only the Earth, but the solar system as well!” That’s what appears in the manga and is therefore OFFICIAL.” (Thanks to DBZGTKOSDH at kanzenshuu for the correction.) The solar system includes the sun and all of the planets. It shouldn’t be taken out of context.
Argument: “Cell was bluffing and lied.”
Counter Argument: “Internet nerds said that. But neither the author of the story nor the company he worked for have ever said that. The characters in the story never said that either. It is NOT official and NEVER appears in the story ever.”
Argument: “There’s no additional proof Cell can do that.”
Counter Argument: “The Japanese company printed a guidebook that states Cell can destroy the solar system. This is NOT Internet Nerd opinion, but from OFFICIAL SOURCES; it COUNTS infinitely more than ANY NERD’S OPINION, mine included.”
Argument: “Cell’s beam didn’t look that impressive.”
Counter Argument: “Piccolo, when he was weak at the beginning of the story, could blow up the moon with a casual normal level energy blast WITHOUT CHARGING HIS ENERGY. While at that same level of power he could not harm Raditz, Goku’s evil brother, so Piccolo CHARGED HIS ENERGY and focused his energy into a small and narrow beam and killed Raditz while Goku held him, so small and narrow beams are usually at higher power than wide beams.
Argument: “The solar system is too big for a small blast to destroy.”
Counter Argument: Piccolo blew up the moon with a beam, the front of which was like 6 INCHES wide. The moon is 2,000 MILES across. 5,280 feet in a mile. Times 2000 miles is 10,560,000 FEET. 6 INCHES DIVIDES INTO THAT 21,120,000 TIMES. The moon was 21 million and 120 thousand times larger than the beam that destroyed it!
You can click the images to make them larger. And Super Saiyan Grade 5 was the original name of Super Saiyan 2 in Japan BEFORE Super Saiyan 3 had been invented. The name changed after that.
This is the version that was released for Hong Kong. What it says is translated below. Translation:
“Everything’s super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!”
“Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One’s personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell’s energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!”
A Super Saiyan that has achieved a different evolution!!
Broli appeared in the movie “Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super Fierce Fight”. His final form resembles Super Saiyan Grade Three. But his speed is ultra first-class, and he could be called a Super Saiyan who has achieved a different evolution than Goku and the others!”
WARNING: If you go by the English dub of Dragon Ball Z, you should know there were a lot of translation errors.
Regarding Dragon Ball Z, the Outskirts Battle Dome and Screw Attack do not speak for the manga, do not speak for the author, do not speak for the company, do not speak for the characters, and do not speak for anyone or anything other than themselves. And if they had done such a good job researching and were so reliable, they wouldn’t have made the mistakes that they’ve made and overlooked vital material. Their fan calculations are based on personal opinion since no official source has ever given numbers regarding any character’s speed or strength. The most we ever get from official sources are power levels and statements about what they can destroy.
What’s happening is that people who are ignorant of Dragon Ball Z or who don’t want Dragon Ball Z to win are accusing legitimate evidence of being invalid and using excuses like “outlier” to ignore the truth. An “outlier” is something that doesn’t fit in with a pattern. What gives people who have nothing to do with the manga, the author, or the company the right to decide what an “outlier” is and therefore should be thrown out? It’s truly absurd to try to win by throwing out evidence that proves you lose. And I know they’re biased because I’ve had dozens of people scream at me like animals and curse me out. They hate losing so much they lie, ignore, and take things out of context, so I’ve decided to post the truth where they cannot reach to condemn.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
SOME PEOPLE CLAIM THAT EXPLOSIONS IN DRAGON BALL Z ARE WEAK BECAUSE THERE’S ONLY A SMALL HOLE. THIS IS ABSURD! THE CHARACTERS HAVE THE ABILITY TO WIDEN OR NARROW THEIR BEAMS TO A SINGLE POINT OF FOCUS! IT ACTUALLY MAKES THE BEAM STRONGER.
Claim Dragon Ball Z characters can’t concentrate their energy: FALSE
In Dragon Ball Z, Piccolo with a power level between 300 – 400, blows up the moon casually with one hand. That same Piccolo can’t harm Raditz (Goku’s evil brother) with that same level of attack. So how does Piccolo kill Raditz? Does he use a giant explosion? NO, he does not! Piccolo charges his energy up for minutes and concentrates it into a tiny beam that has several times the power of a moon destroying blast and kills Raditz with a tiny wound only inches across. This is proof that Dragon Ball Z characters can concentrate their attacks to small radiuses. This destroys the argument that they can’t destroy planets because they only created a small crater. Raditz even says in dialogue that they can raise their power level by concentrating their energy to a single spot.
Argument: “Cell’s beam didn’t look that impressive.”
Counter Argument: “Piccolo, when he was weak at the beginning of the story, could blow up the moon in seconds with a casual normal level energy blast WITHOUT CHARGING HIS ENERGY. While at that same level of power he could not harm Raditz, Goku’s evil brother, so Piccolo CHARGED HIS ENERGY and focused his energy into a small and narrow beam and killed Raditz while Goku held him, so small and narrow beams are usually at higher power than wide beams.
Argument: “The solar system is too big for a small blast to destroy.”
Counter Argument: Piccolo blew up the moon with a beam, the front of which was like 6 INCHES wide. The moon is 2,000 MILES across. 5,280 feet in a mile. Times 2000 miles is 10,560,000 FEET. 6 INCHES DIVIDES INTO THAT 21,120,000 TIMES. The moon was 21 million and 120 thousand times larger than the beam that destroyed it!
THE CHARACTERS HAVE THE ABILITY TO WIDEN OR NARROW THEIR BEAMS TO A SINGLE POINT OF FOCUS! IT ACTUALLY MAKES THE BEAM STRONGER.
Although real world physics don’t apply to fantasy, a supernova would have 10 octillion megatons. That’s 10 decillion tons. Super Saiyan 2 Gohan killed Cell, and Goku as a Super Saiyan 2 is stronger.
So now since we’ve confirmed Cell can generate a solar nova and blow up the solar system, let’s see this power progression with Super Saiyan Multipliers added.
Cell and Super Saiyan 2 level warriors can make supernovas
Super Saiyan 3 increases that by 4 times to 4 supernovas
Super Saiyan 4 increases that by 10 times to 40 supernovas
KAMEHAMEHA allows Goku to increase his normal power by 1.5 times. Goku focuses his energy to a single spot to make it more powerful, so that’s 60 supernovas of destructive force.
Those are the facts from the manga and guidebook,the official sources ; and I’ve explained why the beams can be small and have more power than large beams. Now there.
Claim that Goku can only lift 40tons: FALSE.
Goku was using BUKUJUTSU (Sky Dance Art/Technique) while lifting weight. According to Akira Toriyama (the man who invented Goku and the story) in the Super Exciting Guide (a Dragon Ball Z guidebook), using bukujutsu makes it almost impossible for Goku to lift weight. So the scene was actually quite impressive. Muscle strength means little in Dragon Ball Z, supernatural KI energy is used to perform superhuman acts and KI follows rules such as the above. This means we actually have no idea how strong Goku is or what he can lift. But we do know that while flying, it’s incredibly hard for him to lift anything. Not that it matters since Dragon Ball Z characters mainly use their energy to strike hard and cause explosions.
It’s worth pointing out that it basically says the reason Goku’s weight training in Heaven was so effective was that he used Bukujutsu to float in midair as he used the weights, which made it much harder. It also says his image training/meditation was a means to raise his maximum ki, as muscle training has a limit. Toriyama mentioned there being limits to how much training your muscles could do and needing ki to overcome that limit in the book’s interview.
Some things of interest is that it describes Gohan’s training as being based mostly on strengthening and learning to control his ki, while Vegeta’s training is described as training his muscles to the limit. And as a result of Vegeta’s training, it says he awakened to Super Saiyan 2, so that’s another data point in that debate (Daizenshuu 7 also says Vegeta acquired Super Saiyan 2 through training). http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1516050-super-exciting-guide-training-section/
So how strong is Goku really? Well, no one knows, but let’s go by feats. Goku fought Kid Buu as a Super Saiyan 3 and was nearly even with him. Kid Buu is the monster who kills creator gods. Let that speak for itself.
Claim that Goku can’t use instant teleportation in battle: FALSE.
In the manga, Goku only fails to teleport in battle once when he’s too freaked out Kid Buu is destroying the earth. Goku has failed to save the earth after nearly 40 years of defending it, and the villain has won, so Goku freaks out and can’t concentrate enough to teleport. That’s literally the only time in the entire manga he fails to teleport in battle. Goku uses teleportation in battle multiple times against Cell and Buu.
Goku’s energy output ISN’T limited to his durability. Goku uses supernatural energy that doesn’t follow the laws of physics, YET THE ENERGY ISN’T MAGIC. Goku can go beyond his durability, but can kill or” beat himself” if he’s not careful.
A main point of Dragon Ball Z is that cosmic level warriors can destroy celestial objects. Deal with it. Don’t apply too much logic to it because all these things are impossible in the real world anyway. Let me remind you Frieza did this in his first form.Toriyama loved the special and included it as events that happened, so don’t go there by saying it’s not canon or whatever excuse to try to win by throwing out evidence.
Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta easily with a single finger in his first form and this was referenced in the manga. Frieza, in his first form, was nowhere near Super Saiyan Goku’s level. According to Dazenshuu 7, at least 200 “kilis” can destroy 1 -2 planets. How large those planets are, aren’t mentioned; nor is whether or not Goku and the others were at full power.
However, Akira Toriyama’s dialogue about Cell being able to destroy the solar system, including the sun, does makes sense and here’s why. Planet Vegeta had ten times earth’s gravity. If one does the silly thing of applying the laws of physics to a fantasy that started as a gag manga, then planet Vegeta had to be much more massive than the earth. It was NEVER stated to have artificial gravity.
Although Toriyama didn’t think it through too well, he intended Cell to be a solar system destroyer and yet have the “Kilis” be an accurate measurement of power in the Buu Saga. Frieza did destroy planet Vegeta in his first form in the manga too as the scene was referenced there. And final form Frieza has 226 times the power level of his first form. Every villain after that was stronger and stronger and stronger. The problem is Toriyama doesn’t seem to realize how much more energy it takes to destroy a star compared to a planet.
Of course we’re applying logic to a fantasy were characters throw supernatural energy at each other and the energy, according to Akira Toriyama, is made of courage (YUKI), being in your right mind(SHOKI), and health(GENKI). How do planets and stars have this abstract concept energy? Plot holes? Well, whatever, it’s a fantasy. It doesn’t have to make sense.
In Star Wars, Han Solo used a measure of distance like it was a measure of time because George Lucas didn’t even know the difference at the time. So in conclusion, Babidi’s “Kili” system is a possible plot hole in the Dragon Ball Z universe because the characters got stronger and certainly didn’t get weaker as the story progressed. All in all, Dragon Ball Z is confusing to try to figure out because the author is forgetful and did not use logic, but pure imagination.
Internet Nerd: “Those are outliers and Outskirts Battle Dome and Screw Attack said this and that and used math.”
Me: “Why are you ignoring what the author wrote in favor of your worthless opinions about someone else’s fantasy world? Since when does a fantasy world obey real world physics and logic? Where in the manga or anime did those calculations appear? When did the Japanese company or Akira Toriyama, the author, ever invent those? None of the characters ever called them outliers or hyperboles, where did you get that idea from? Why do you ignore official sources from the Dragon Ball Z copyright holders and creators like guidebooks, yet insist that you know better than the people who invented it and have been in the business for decades?”
ABILITY TO TAKE AN EXPLODING PLANET.
In Dragon Ball Z, body durability depends on energy level. The lower the energy, the less damage you can take. Frieza, at his lowest energy level ever, still survived a planet exploding. But at his highest energy level, couldn’t take Goku’s punches and spat up blood. Goku even blew half of Frieza’s head off with an energy blast while planet Namek’s explosion did no more visible damage to him. Then Frieza got even stronger than ever before and came to earth, only to be cut up by Trunks’ sword. Frieza, at his strongest ever, can’t take Trunks’ sword, but at his weakest ever, survives an exploding planet. It’s important to note, the stronger the characters get, the larger their energy is, so an explosion that destroys a planet can actually have much more energy than a previous planetary explosion earlier on in the series. Same sized explosion, but far more power. That’s why weaker characters can survive them, but stronger characters can die from them later on. It’s because the blast of the same size has MUCH MORE energy inside of it.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
————————————————————————-NON MANGA BELOW———————————————————————————————————
————————————————————————–NON MANGA BELOW——————————————————————————————————–
I COVER NON-MANGA MATERIAL AT THIS POINT, NOT TO STRENGTHEN MY ARGUMENT, BUT BECAUSE IT’S BROUGHT UP A LOT. I’m trying to address it because people will bring it up and I can’t avoid it.
Speaking of celestial objects, Broli AKA Brolly, in a non-canon movie (NEVER PART OF THE MANGA), somehow destroys a galaxy in an unspecified amount of time. That galaxy was truly destroyed, it’s not up for debate. In the Japanese version King Kai says it’s under attack and then says it was “torn up.” Some stars and planets are shown to remain. That means Brolly blew it up in pieces, but spared some areas of the galaxy for unknown reason. But most of it is gone. Click on the images to make them bigger. Remember, a galaxy is over 100 billion stars, so even millions remaining could count as it being destroyed but still having ruined bits of it left.
This is an actual on screen feat. Are you calling all the writers and artists liars? Remember,in the real world nothing like this is possible. A fantasy is a fantasy. Simply accept it.
text full with images
http://abear77.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/dragon-ball-z-ignorance/
Log in to comment