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#51 Edited by jaywray (631 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray: I have seen the attack and I know what happens in the movie, Goku even absorbs the attack but he is unable to fight any longer as the attack leaves him exhausted and Bills did not even go all out against Goku, he only used 70% of his power.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/29/detailed-battle-of-gods-synopsis-now-available/

Oh okay, yeah I've read it, Note how it says Solar System but Galaxy but a lot of people seem to be claiming Galaxy busting stated by Piccolo, any reason for that?

#52 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

NeonGameWave has no idea what he's talking about; he's already admitted he hasn't seen the movie.

First, Bills is NOT a galaxy buster. He has no galaxy busting feats. Piccolo says something about the galaxy being erased or something to that effect, but that power was never shown in the movie. Second, Majin Buu wasn't able to perform matter transmutation on Bills but this doesn't really mean anything. Majin Buu's matter transmutation is predicated on magic but Silver Surfer is powered by the Power Cosmic, not magic. Third, a blood lusted Silver Surfer has unleashed enough energy to create a black hole before so there's no reason to think he couldn't absorb all of Bill's energy attacks. Fourth, Silver Surfer also has TP, which Bills has no resistance to. Fifth, speed blitz is out of the question. With his board SS is MFTL and there's just no way Bills is going to tag a blood lusted SS.

My guess is the fight starts and Norrin absorbs Bills into his board, mind rapes him with TP, creates a black hole, transmutes him, disassembles him on a subatomic level or kills Bills in any number of horrible ways.

#53 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: I also beleive bills isnt a galaxy buster but a solar system buster , but one thing i must say is that bills has insane speed probably MFTL , goku could barely keep up with him using instant transmission BARELY .

#54 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Surfer should still win here, he have many more powers that Bill have not yet encounters.

#55 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge:

Bills` God of Destruction Energy Sphere attack would of destroyed earth if Goku wasn`t there to stop it.

Bills tanks a planet busting + attack from a motivated and bloodlusted Vegeta, and he is left with no scratch whatsoever. Bills also just simply taps his finger on his forehead and has him knocked out.

Kaizenshuu: Vegeta reverts back to his normal state, having used up all of his power in that last attack, and as the smoke clears, is shocked to see that Birus is undamaged.

Bills effortlessly defeats a SSJ3 Goku by just lightly tapping him on the neck.

Bills stomps every single one of the Z Fighters including Ultimate Gohan.

As confirmed by his master Whis who is more powerful than Bills, it is confirmed that Bills was only using 70% of his true power when he fought against SSJG Goku and he held back during the courses of the fight and he is able to tank a hit from a SSJ Goku who retains some of the SSJG power and that power is composed of Ultimate Gohan, Vegeta, Pan, Trunks and Goten`s energy.

Kaizenshuu - Angered, Birus punches Goku hard in the gut, then sends him flying through West City with a ferocious kick. Goku stops himself mid-air, but before he can do anything Birus is already there and puts Goku in a headlock. Birus quickly whirls around him, kicks Goku off into a nearby forest, and gives chase. Not able to see them, Kame-Sen’nin and the others run over to a Capsule ship and fly off after the two. Goku and Birus continue exchanging blows in the forest, when Birus sends Goku flying with another kick to the face. Birus flies off after him and the two end up in a desert area with numerous rock formations surrounding them. Goku and Birus charge at each other and their punches collide, sending out an Earth-shattering shockwave. They pull away from each other and a trickle of blood falls from a cut on Goku’s cheek.

Kaiznshuu - Goku fires a gigantic Kamehameha at Birus, but he takes the blast head on and then prepares a huge attack of his own, an enormous energy ball. As Goku struggles against Birus’s energy ball, Birus tells Goku that Super Saiyan God’s time limit ran out a long time ago. Goku apparently did not notice, because as he fought he absorbed that realm of power into his body. Due to this, even after returning to normal, Goku still did not power down very much.

Kaizenshuu - Birus admits that he too is dissatisfied, because he is still not fighting with anywhere close to his full power. Goku is amazed, since he himself has only been fighting at close to 80% of his full power.

Kaizenshuu - Goku adds that Birus is the strongest in the universe; he even makes Kaiō and Kaiōshin wet themselves. Uis warns everyone to be careful what they say; if anything rubs Birus the wrong way, he will destroy the entire solar system in no time at all.

This is coming from his master Whis who is more powerful than him and he said in no time at all for a reason, he knows Bills` character and how powerful he is, why would he lie?He obviously meant what he said and there is nothing to suggest that Bills would require to use his full power, he could do this with ease.

Kaizenshuu - Uis says that Birus put forth about 70% of his full power in that fight.

The Supreme Kais create planets, stars and life, Bills as the opposing force to that principle destroys those very same things, he has destroyed stars, planets and wiped out life for a very long, long time. He has the sheer skill and experience to take out the Silver Surfer and his combat ability is top notch. Shenron the Eternal Dragon even fears him which says something and Bills can definitely destroy a galaxy and I believe it is also confirmed through a flashback and Bills>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vegito and Super Buhaan, Super Buhaan was affecting things on a dimensional level if I`m not mistaken.


Also remember Bills did not use 100% of his full power when in doing these things, so Silver Surfer will not be able to survive a galaxy busting attack.

#56 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaywray: Notice how Whis said he would be able to wipe out the entire Solar System in an instant and there is no indication to suggest that it would require him to use his full power, and there is no proof to suggest that he wouldn`t be able to.

#57 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

flashback of bills destroying a galaxy never happened it was false.

#58 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze: I think Bill's combat speed is definitely FTL. But his travel speed is probably MFTL. As for him being a solar system buster, honestly, I don't know. He has no feats to put him on that level, so there's no evidence of this, however, I don't think this is an entirely unreasonable conclusion.

#59 Edited by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari: yea , whis his master said bills could destroy the solar system in a blink of an eye, meaning with ease, i wouldnt beleive it if it came from piccolo or kirrlin etc... but whis HIS MASTER said it and that is something different he knows what bills is capable of

#60 Posted by GhostRider2 (3305 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer, as much as i like DBZ no one can beat Silver Surfer, with Supes is another story but Silver Surfer has a wide range of powers.

#61 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

NeonGameWave has no idea what he's talking about; he's already admitted he hasn't seen the movie.

First, Bills is NOT a galaxy buster. He has no galaxy busting feats. Piccolo says something about the galaxy being erased or something to that effect, but that power was never shown in the movie. Second, Majin Buu wasn't able to perform matter transmutation on Bills but this doesn't really mean anything. Majin Buu's matter transmutation is predicated on magic but Silver Surfer is powered by the Power Cosmic, not magic. Third, a blood lusted Silver Surfer has unleashed enough energy to create a black hole before so there's no reason to think he couldn't absorb all of Bill's energy attacks. Fourth, Silver Surfer also has TP, which Bills has no resistance to. Fifth, speed blitz is out of the question. With his board SS is MFTL and there's just no way Bills is going to tag a blood lusted SS.

My guess is the fight starts and Norrin absorbs Bills into his board, mind rapes him with TP, creates a black hole, transmutes him, disassembles him on a subatomic level or kills Bills in any number of horrible ways.

I have read the full synopsis of the movie which is official in its entirety by the way.

Yes he is. Odin doesn`t have galaxy busting feats yet many believe him to be a galaxy buster it was only said through statements and Piccolo saying that he can would fit into that category, so what makes Marvel or DC so special? I think it is simply bias and Cell`s statement of being able to destroy the Solar System was further confirmed in an official handbook which was approved and worked on by Akira Toriyama, when Whis as I quote said the following:

Kaizenshuu - Uis warns everyone to be careful what they say; if anything rubs Birus the wrong way, he will destroy the entire solar system in no time at all.

Kaizenshuu - Uis says that Birus put forth about 70% of his full power in that fight.

He said it for a reason also Whis is Bills` master and teacher he would know how much power Bills has and he said in no time at all meaning absolutely in just no time at all, Bills would be able to do this. Also there is no type of indication that suggest that Bills would have to even power up or use his complete power to perform this feat in regards to destroying the Solar System, Cell is a Solar System Buster as confirmed by Akira Toriyama as it was also confirmed through the official guidebooks and Bills>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Perfect Cell. Bills is also>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vegito and Super Buhaan who was affecting things on a dimensional level. Whis even confirms that Bills` was only utilizing 70% of his overall power when he went up against Goku in SSJG form and Bills even admits that he was holding back a lot of his power. Just because Buu`s transmutation was based on the methodical use of magic doesn`t mean transmutation through the power cosmic would be able to harm Bills and the point is transmutation doesn`t work regardless of how it is performed, in the end the same effects are in place and are in tone to what needs to be done in order to shape what is being transmuted, has Silver Surfer ever used this ability on a being of Bills` level before? Goku in SSJG form absorbed Bills God of Destruction Energy Sphere and was exhausted after that, also he blacked out for a moment as in thought he had to harness enough energy to absorb it, energy attacks and physical attacks have hurt Silver Surfer before, also Bills is the greater fighter, he has been around for many years and is a master combatant as he knows when to strike. He knocked out Vegeta in one hit, he knocked out SSJ3 Goku, Piccolo, Android 18, Gotenks also in one hit without using any real power and he also took out Majin Buu with one hit. Bills doesn`t only have the power advantage but he has the skill and fighting ability to overcome Silver Surfer, has Silver Surfer ever used his TP on a being of Bills` scale of power? Bills is MFTL in combat speed and this was him holding back against Goku, he did not go all out. The Supreme Kais create, life, planets and stars, Bills` job as the God of Destruction is to destroy those things and maintain balance, he`s been doing this for a good while and the Supreme Kais as well as Shenron fears him. Also it is confirmed that there are twelve universes and the seventh one is the universe that Goku and the rest of the DB characters reside in which means there is officially now a multiverse for DB, and there are also 11 more Gods of Destruction as confirmed by Bills himself as he is the weakest one, each God of Destruction is tasked with maintaining balance throughout the whole universe this authoritative, and cosmically influenced importance within the principle of positional power says and means something it shows how much power and importance these beings have to the universe itself. Bills is not the God of Destruction for the galaxy or solar system but to the entire universe. Even if Bills was only a Solar System Buster there is no proof that suggests that Silver Surfer would be able to survive a Solar System attack and also remember that a fight cannot be determined by sheer power alone but by versatility, advantages, speed, endurance and importantly skill as well as combat ability which Bills has over the Silver Surfer.

I see the fight going like this. Silver Surfer goes all out with his first major attacks, Bills smirks and dodges his cosmic blasts, Silver Surfer tries to transmute him but fails, Bills releasing that his ki blasts are having no real effect goes in for the kill by delivering crushing blows to the Silver Surfer and strikes him in a few critical spots in which he weakens him, Bills then accesses his true power and has him annihilated.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=22411

Page 147

Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form)

An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!

Super Saiyan 2 used to be called Super Saiyan Grade V and it says Brolly has a different super saiyan form than all the others that's special to him.

A Super Saiyan that has achieved a different evolution!!

Broli appeared in the movie "Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super Fierce Fight". His final form resembles Super Saiyan Grade Three. But his speed is ultra first-class, and he could be called a Super Saiyan who has achieved a different evolution than Goku and the others!

At least one “Film Anime Comics” Guide that I have come across that was written for the Manga and Anime, and BEFORE Akira Toriyama had created Super Saiyan 3, discusses the different forms of Super Saiyans as GRADES and what each "GRADE" was capale of.

That Guide excerpted below states that Super Saiyan 2's or "Super Saiyan Grade 5's"... "power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

[Above is the Cantonese version released in Hong Kong. It too says "超級賽亞人第五階段" (Super Saiyan Grade Five) and the Japanese Version is discussed below]

Background on the Guide:

This information comes from a “Film Anime Comics” published on May 31st, 1993. At this point in time the manga was just beginning the Buu arc, while the anime had only just recently passed the point where Gohan transforms into (what would later be known as) Super Saiyan 2. Specifically, Gohan transforms in DBZ episode 184, broadcast May 5th 1993, while the last episode shown in May was episode 187, where Cell reverts to his second form. As a result, this feature is therefore illustrated with anime screan-shots.

Daizenshuu 2 uses the "Grade" terminology to refer to the muscular forms. This comes in the book's "Growing Up" section, which goes over the different ages, appearances, and forms of the characters throughout the series.

The Japanese “Film Anime Comics” Guide

Translation:

Red words: "Everything's super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!"

Black words: "Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Translation:

[lineup of Broli's forms]

"--Normal

--Super Saiyan

--Super Saiyan (Final Form)

[Red and Black Text on Right]

A Super Saiyan that has achieved a different evolution!!

Broli appeared in the movie "Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super Fierce Fight". His final form resembles Super Saiyan Grade Three. But his speed is ultra first-class, and he could be called a Super Saiyan who has achieved a different evolution than Goku and the others!"

#62 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: I mean...it's been stated throughout several fights that Odin has had that galaxies were being destroyed as a result of his fights and even the universe itself was being threatened. Dr. Strange was one of the people who stated this.

#63 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: Yes it was stated but it was not shown on panel. This also doesn`t prove why Bills wouldn`t be able to destroy a galaxy and many like to dismiss Cell`s statement as hyperbole because it is a statement but they forget the fact that it was confirmed in an official handbooks or guidebooks.

#64 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: Yes it was stated but it was not shown on panel. This also doesn`t prove why Bills wouldn`t be able to destroy a galaxy and many like to dismiss Cell`s statement as hyperbole because it is a statement but they forget the fact that it was confirmed in an official handbooks or guidebooks.

And Sentry's power of one million suns was written on panel by multiple writers across multiple books.

So are we really going to delve into character statements?

At least Odin has fought galaxy busters.

#65 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs:

The difference though is that Cell and Bills have one writer as well as one creator not ten or twenty.

Yes because it needs to be shown and described in depth.

My point still stands. Many like to disapprove DBZ yet Marvel and DC are actually very much lacking when it comes to these areas as well.

#66 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: How does the fact that they have one writer change the fact that multiple writers have used the "Power of One Million Suns" line? Obviously many writers thought it was relevant to the character, and a description of his power.

But Cell's solar system busting was never shown, and it was never described in depth. Akira Toriyama simply said he could do it. That was it. Akira Toriyama couldn't even remember that SSJ3 existed.

#67 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: The difference is great and so is the gap. One writer is more credible especially since that same writer is the sole creator who has further referenced the idea through official handbooks and guidebooks unlike Sentry who has this idea expressed with no showing or further sourcing whatsoever.

It doesn`t mean he can`t do it and Akira Toriyama is the creator of Cell, he furthered this idea throughout the handbooks. Akira`s words>>>your opinion and hm forgetting about character designs based on him not adjusting to the same environment since the time he created and worked on Dragon Ball is irrelevant. The fact is his words never changed or were never contradicted thus confirming the facts, if there`s no contradiction then there is no infliction in what was mentioned.

#68 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: The difference is great and so is the gap. One writer is more credible especially since that same writer is the sole creator who has further referenced the idea through official handbooks and guidebooks unlike Sentry who has this idea expressed with no showing or further sourcing whatsoever.

It doesn`t mean he can`t do it and Akira Toriyama is the creator of Cell, he furthered this idea throughout the handbooks. Akira`s words>>>your opinion and hm forgetting about character designs based on him not adjusting to the same environment since the time he created and worked on Dragon Ball is irrelevant. The fact is his words never changed or were never contradicted thus confirming the facts, if there`s no contradiction then there is no infliction in what was mentioned.

But you just said that Odins galaxy busting was never shown or explained in depth.

Cells solar system busting was never shown or explained in depth.

Just because one is stated in a handbook, that makes it more legitimate than the other? That really doesn't make much sense.

#69 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: People like you are not worth responding to. You can't give characters feats that they haven't demonstrated. I really don't care what Akira Toriyama says or what the DBZ guide books/data books say. Cell never busted a solar system and Bills never busted a galaxy. Therefore, there's no evidence that Cell can bust a solar system or that Bills can bust a galaxy. That's pretty much the end of it.

As for Odin, he has nothing to do with this thread. If you want to debate the legitimacy of Odin as a galaxy buster, then do it in another thread.

#70 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave said:

@xeon1cs: The difference is great and so is the gap. One writer is more credible especially since that same writer is the sole creator who has further referenced the idea through official handbooks and guidebooks unlike Sentry who has this idea expressed with no showing or further sourcing whatsoever.

It doesn`t mean he can`t do it and Akira Toriyama is the creator of Cell, he furthered this idea throughout the handbooks. Akira`s words>>>your opinion and hm forgetting about character designs based on him not adjusting to the same environment since the time he created and worked on Dragon Ball is irrelevant. The fact is his words never changed or were never contradicted thus confirming the facts, if there`s no contradiction then there is no infliction in what was mentioned.

But you just said that Odins galaxy busting was never shown or explained in depth.

Cells solar system busting was never shown or explained in depth.

Just because one is stated in a handbook, that makes it more legitimate than the other? That really doesn't make much sense.

Yes it wasn`t. My point is that these types of things needs to be distinguished in terms of Marvel, DC and DBZ and have to be thoroughly explained.

It was further referenced and sourced also it is very logical.

It is stated by the author himself and further expressed throughout official guidebooks, if the author says so then it is so and it is simple as that.

#71 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: So every feat that isn't demonstrated needs to be addressed in a handbook for it to be considered possible for a character, despite it being stated on panel, in several comics?

He didn't even say how Cell could do it, just that he could. It wasn't explained at all. There was pretty much no explanation to it at all.

#72 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

Dragon Ball arguments used to be a 40 scan per post and was never really convincing, now it's just a some statements and even less convincing.

#73 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@neongamewave: People like you are not worth responding to. You can't give characters feats that they haven't demonstrated. I really don't care what Akira Toriyama says or what the DBZ guide books/data books say. Cell never busted a solar system and Bills never busted a galaxy. Therefore, there's no evidence that Cell can bust a solar system or that Bills can bust a galaxy. That's pretty much the end of it.

As for Odin, he has nothing to do with this thread. If you want to debate the legitimacy of Odin as a galaxy buster, then do it in another thread.

By your attitude and sway of logic, Akira`s characters would be worthless in the expression of what he was trying to convey and just because they haven`t done something doesn`t mean they can`t especially when their is a methodical and systematical system within the fundamental foundation of DBZ in regards to ki and PL. By your logic Goku or Vegito wouldn`t be able to destroy a planet because they haven`t shown to do so. I brought up Odin because it is true in regards to how one set of characters is treated far more better and favored over the other also it furthers the point in truth about there being a form of bias against DBZ characters.

Your ideas and misbeliefs have been addressed before.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/gotenks-vs-gladiator-754227/?page=2

Read Pages 2-4 and then you will understand.

#74 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: So every feat that isn't demonstrated needs to be addressed in a handbook for it to be considered possible for a character, despite it being stated on panel, in several comics?

He didn't even say how Cell could do it, just that he could. It wasn't explained at all. There was pretty much no explanation to it at all.

No. Your missing the point, my point is that DC and Marvel is favored more than DBZ in terms of the addressing of these situations, many are quick to dismiss and bash DBZ, yet when Marvel and DC may share this supposed flaw they accept it with open arms and it being further described in a handbook would make it more credible as well as believable in all honesty.

Which is why we go with what is shown and clearly implied, Cell could either blow up the sun or could have the Solar System destroyed by his energy bullet or Solar Kamehameha Wave. Also if Akira confirms it then it would make it evidently true, Cell even says that he has gathered enough energy to destroy the Solar System meaning his concentrated attack is enough to wipe out the entire solar system and another thing that is important to know is that Cell is a super computer meaning he would know how much ki output it would take to accomplish such a feat.

#75 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: Except most people ignore character statements, because they're usually just hyperbole. Odin destroying galaxies as a result of fighting has been referenced through multiple comics, would that not make it just as credible? Same with Sentry's power of one million exploding suns, again, referenced multiple times throughout multiple issues through multiple writers. Obviously this implies they all feel he is at this level of power. So that would make it just as credible.

Reed Richards and Tony Stark have both stated that Sentry had the power of one million exploding suns. I'm sure they know what kind of power that would entail.

#76 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: No, Goku and Vegeta can destroy planets because they've been powerscaled at that level. Neither Cell nor Bills can be powerscaled to either solar system or galaxy busting. I don't care about anything else you wrote because: no feats = no feats = no feats.

#77 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: Except most people ignore character statements, because they're usually just hyperbole. Odin destroying galaxies as a result of fighting has been referenced through multiple comics, would that not make it just as credible? Same with Sentry's power of one million exploding suns, again, referenced multiple times throughout multiple issues through multiple writers. Obviously this implies they all feel he is at this level of power. So that would make it just as credible.

Reed Richards and Tony Stark have both stated that Sentry had the power of one million exploding suns. I'm sure they know what kind of power that would entail.

Not exactly. Cell`s statement has been dismissed many times as being hyperbole even when it is logical and further confirmed by the creator himself, the problem though is that many like to favor these characters over DBZ characters and that is my point.

That is a good point but like you said it could simply be hyperbole many feats and contradictions are made by the multiple writers of these books unlike DBZ which has the benefit of one writer and creator who knows the characters wholeheartedly also there is nothing that contradict it if there is nothing that contradicts it then how it can be disapproved or argued?

#78 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: Except most people ignore character statements, because they're usually just hyperbole. Odin destroying galaxies as a result of fighting has been referenced through multiple comics, would that not make it just as credible? Same with Sentry's power of one million exploding suns, again, referenced multiple times throughout multiple issues through multiple writers. Obviously this implies they all feel he is at this level of power. So that would make it just as credible.

Reed Richards and Tony Stark have both stated that Sentry had the power of one million exploding suns. I'm sure they know what kind of power that would entail.

Not exactly. Cell`s statement has been dismissed many times as being hyperbole even when it is logical and further confirmed by the creator himself, the problem though is that many like to favor these characters over DBZ characters and that is my point.

That is a good point but like you said it could simply be hyperbole many feats and contradictions are made by the multiple writers of these books unlike DBZ which has the benefit of one writer and creator who knows the characters wholeheartedly also there is nothing that contradict it if there is nothing that contradicts it then how it can be disapproved or argued?

But he couldn't even remember that SSJ3 existed...

So how does his statement make it any more legitimate than Sentry's or Odins on panel claims/statements, again by multiple writers spanning multiple comics. Again, because it was put in a handbook?

And it isn't really that logical. I mean...Goku could apparently destroy multiple planets as stated in the Buu Saga, but that doesn't mean he can bust an entire solar system.

#79 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@neongamewave: No, Goku and Vegeta can destroy planets because they've been powerscaled at that level. Neither Cell nor Bills can be powerscaled to either solar system or galaxy busting. I don't care about anything else you wrote because: no feats = no feats = no feats.

But you just said it is because they weren`t shown to do it now you are accepting PLs? Unexpected of you to be honest and why can`t Bills or Cell be Power Scaled? I thought Akira addressed this throughout the manga when he spoke about and addressed ki and how it is important when in distinguishing DBZ characters. Also characters being more powerful than others would show and describe why that character would be able to perform such a feat and there is no contradiction hindering the evidence neither is it disapproved its like saying Krillin can`t blow up a planet has he failed when in trying to blow up a planet? No, then why wouldn`t he be able to unless it was proven otherwise? Has Cell failed to blow up a Solar System, did he attempt and failed miserably? Has someone significantly more powerful than him failed to accomplish the same feat, obviously and evidently no so it shouldn`t be too far fetch or illogical especially considering the idea that DBZ always progresses and evolves in power as shown from character to character. You can ignore it if you want but it won`t change the facts neither will it deny the truth.

#80 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave said:

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: Except most people ignore character statements, because they're usually just hyperbole. Odin destroying galaxies as a result of fighting has been referenced through multiple comics, would that not make it just as credible? Same with Sentry's power of one million exploding suns, again, referenced multiple times throughout multiple issues through multiple writers. Obviously this implies they all feel he is at this level of power. So that would make it just as credible.

Reed Richards and Tony Stark have both stated that Sentry had the power of one million exploding suns. I'm sure they know what kind of power that would entail.

Not exactly. Cell`s statement has been dismissed many times as being hyperbole even when it is logical and further confirmed by the creator himself, the problem though is that many like to favor these characters over DBZ characters and that is my point.

That is a good point but like you said it could simply be hyperbole many feats and contradictions are made by the multiple writers of these books unlike DBZ which has the benefit of one writer and creator who knows the characters wholeheartedly also there is nothing that contradict it if there is nothing that contradicts it then how it can be disapproved or argued?

But he couldn't even remember that SSJ3 existed...

So how does his statement make it any more legitimate than Sentry's or Odins on panel claims/statements, again by multiple writers spanning multiple comics. Again, because it was put in a handbook?

And it isn't really that logical. I mean...Goku could apparently destroy multiple planets as stated in the Buu Saga, but that doesn't mean he can bust an entire solar system.

And your point being? He hasn`t worked on his material for years and it doesn`t contradict with Cell`s statement.

Yes it was put in a handbook by the creator and not written as mere statements by comic characters, my point is that if people are going to nitpick with DBZ at least they should acknowledge and consider the problems regarding Marvel and DC.

Actually it is. He would actually be able to and here are the reasons why.

Confirmed in the official handbook

Translated: http://magikarp46.dyndns.org/dragonball/daizenshuu/07/07-046.html

For the word Kiri:

"キリ Kiri Kili An energy unit used by Bobbidi. When Bobbidi measured Goku's energy during his fight with Yakon, this unit was used. [Par.] Goku's energy level is over 3,000 kili. At approximately 200-300 kili, one can destroy 1 or 2 planets.

That means Goku could destroy 10-15 planets or 10-15 planets the size and density of Earth in comparison to size.

Goku also is>>>>>>>>>>>>Perfect Cell as well

#81 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave: He couldn't remember probably the biggest transformation Goku went through in the Buu Saga? Or one of the biggest transformations Goku went through in probably the entirety of DBZ? I mean...doesn't Akira Toriyama basically admit somewhere in the Daizenshuu that he has terrible memory? So the word of a extremely forgetful man is taken more seriously over the thoughts and work of multiple writers simply because he put it down in a handbook? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

But it was not only stated by characters, but also written in the narrative. It being stated in a handbook doesn't magically make it more legitimate. When, AGAIN, Odins galaxy busting/threatening and Sentry's one million exploding suns was used by many authors. Which would solidify the fact they felt that was an accurate depiction of their power. How does it being in a handbook make it more legitimate? That still makes no sense. You'd think if so many authors feel the characters are at a certain level of power, and so they keep referencing it, that they'd be at that level.

And the kiri thing doesn't confirm anything that pertains to solar system busting...He can destroy 15+ Earth-type planets, okay. That still isn't a solar system busting feat. Even if we assume he wasn't full power, and it was the beginning of the Buu Saga and compare it to his power at the end of the Saga, there's still really nothing to suggest he could destroy a solar system based on the kiri "math".

#82 Edited by THC (367 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_bradley

@belroyi

@comicstooge said:

And who's to say Bills can survive even a single shot from Surfer? Does he have any durability feats?

0:45 is Goku deflecting Frieza's 100% power Supernova

Which Frieza used to destroy Planet Vegeta:

Of course Frieza is nowhere near planetary durability. He fully tanked the multi-planet busting Spirit Bomb before killing Krillin causing Goku to go Super Saiyan. He survived Namek's explosion while cut in half, and on the verge of death. Yet Goku's physical punches were crippling him and causing him to cough up blood.

"My son is not so easily destroyed as a planet":

Then we see Mecha Frieza get speedblitz'd and chopped into pieces before he can move a muscle by Future Trunks:

Yet for all Frieza had improved, and despite the fact Trunks dominated Frieza in speed and power, Future Trunks is no match for Goku, as he has been training himself since Namek:

3 years later Androids 19 and 20 appear:

Unfortunately Goku lacks the endurance to fend them off as he is suffering from a heart virus:

Luckily Vegeta shows up and proves Kakarot's superior, for now, and stomps the Androids (awesome fight here):

Yet Android 18, who is slightly weaker than Android 17 and 16, stomps Vegeta:

After his training in the time chamber Piccolo fights Android 17 (stronger than Android 18) to a standstill:

Android 17 is no match for Imperfect Cell, who 16 calculates to be his equal:

Android 16, 17, Piccolo and Imperfect Cell are now all about roughly the same in power with 16 and Cell being the strongest, but after absorbing Android 17, Semi-perfect Cell stomps Android 16:

Soon after, Vegeta and his son emerge from the time chamber themselves. Vegeta stomps Semi-perfect Cell:

However, enticed by the prospect of Perfect Cell's strength, Vegeta allows Semi-perfect cell to absorb Android 18 to transform. Perfect Cell proceeds to stomp Vegeta.

He does so again in addition to all the other Z-Fighters later at the Cell Games with a bunch of clones that are individually a mere fraction of his power:

Now all of those incremental increases in power are nothing compared to Gohan's initial boost gained by first achieving SSJ2. His boost in power was akin to Goku's gained by going SSJ1 the first time:

Speed>strength:

So that's the power scaling up to SSJ2. At this point Cell claims to casually have the power to destroy the solar system, aka starbusting. It's certainly logical. Remember, Frieza destroyed Namek with 10x the mass of Earth at 1% of his power in seconds without breaking a sweat. Cell would karate chop Frieza's head off before he could blink, and that's a massive understatement

Next season you fast forward seven years, and both Goku and Vegeta have far surpassed Gohan in SSJ2, while Gohan has slacked on his training and grown weaker.

They trained their different typical fashions over the years, Vegeta grinding his raw power under 400x gravity and honing his martial talent, and Goku training his spirit and skill in Otherworld with a plethora of masterful martial artists from across the Universe.

So you can see the way Bills tapped aside and danced around Goku was very impressive.

#83 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: He couldn't remember probably the biggest transformation Goku went through in the Buu Saga? Or one of the biggest transformations Goku went through in probably the entirety of DBZ?

But it was not only stated by characters, but also written in the narrative. It being stated in a handbook doesn't magically make it more legitimate. When, AGAIN, Odins galaxy busting/threatening and Sentry's one million exploding suns was used by many authors. Which would solidify the fact they felt that was an accurate depiction of their power.

And the kiri thing doesn't confirm anything that pertains to solar system busting...He can destroy 15+ Earth-type planets, okay. That still isn't a solar system busting feat. Even if we assume he wasn't full power, and it was the beginning of the Buu Saga and compare it to his power at the end of the Saga, there's still really nothing to suggest he could destroy a solar system based on the kiri "math".

Because he hasn`t been working on it for years and like I said it doesn`t contradict with Cell`s statement so you mentioning it repeatedly doesn`t make any sense.

Yes it does. It was further confirmed by the creator, the handbook is there to give a much more deeper understanding of the universe of Dragon Ball and it is in detail explained by the creator in regards to what he was trying to present. Yes by many authors but was it confirmed in an official handbook or was it confirmed by the official creator himself? Many writers from Marvel contradict themselves as shown in interviews and even feats shown within comics it is because of the many writers that have control over the same character and the idea of that character can be changed.

Actually it does, this was Goku in SSJ1 form and not SSJ3 form also planets through the comparison of earth as it said 1-2 planets can be destroyed by 200-300 kili alone, Goku was at a PL of 3,000 and that was him in SSJ1 form.

#84 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@neongamewave said:

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: He couldn't remember probably the biggest transformation Goku went through in the Buu Saga? Or one of the biggest transformations Goku went through in probably the entirety of DBZ?

But it was not only stated by characters, but also written in the narrative. It being stated in a handbook doesn't magically make it more legitimate. When, AGAIN, Odins galaxy busting/threatening and Sentry's one million exploding suns was used by many authors. Which would solidify the fact they felt that was an accurate depiction of their power.

And the kiri thing doesn't confirm anything that pertains to solar system busting...He can destroy 15+ Earth-type planets, okay. That still isn't a solar system busting feat. Even if we assume he wasn't full power, and it was the beginning of the Buu Saga and compare it to his power at the end of the Saga, there's still really nothing to suggest he could destroy a solar system based on the kiri "math".

Because he hasn`t been working on it for years and like I said it doesn`t contradict with Cell`s statement so you mentioning it repeatedly doesn`t make any sense.

Yes it does. It was further confirmed by the creator, the handbook is there to give a much more deeper understanding of the universe of Dragon Ball and it is in detail explained by the creator in regards to what he was trying to present. Yes by many authors but was it confirmed in an official handbook or was it confirmed by the official creator himself? Many writers from Marvel contradict themselves as shown in interviews and even feats shown within comics it is because of the many writers that have control over the same character and the idea of that character can be changed.

Actually it does, this was Goku in SSJ1 form and not SSJ3 form also planets through the comparison of earth as it said 1-2 planets can be destroyed by 200-300 kili alone, Goku was at a PL of 3,000 and that was him in SSJ1 form.

Yes it does make sense. Because he can't even remember something basic about his main character. And admits to being extremely forgetful when it comes to pretty much everything DBZ.

But there was no in depth explanation or anything regarding Cells solar system busting. Why does it need to be confirmed in a handbook when it's confirmed in canon on panel? Akira Toriyama contradicts himself from DB to DBZ, pretty consistently. Sentry/Void has better feats than pretty much everyone in DBZ.

His powerlevel isn't 3000. His kiri level is 3000. Destroying 10-15 Earth's does not translate into magically being able to blow up solar systems. But there is no formula for determining kiri, is there. So we have absolutely no idea how it scales.

#85 Edited by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: That doesnt matter if the creator doesnt remember who cares? if he said he can then.. HE CAN! cause HE... IS .. .THE.... C-R-E-A-T-O-R. its official, opinions dont count .

guys dont be biased ....

Bills is a Solar system buster but not a Galaxy buster.

Whis his master stated it (he should know better)

still dont think bills could defeat surfer he has to many hax

#86 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave said:

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: He couldn't remember probably the biggest transformation Goku went through in the Buu Saga? Or one of the biggest transformations Goku went through in probably the entirety of DBZ?

But it was not only stated by characters, but also written in the narrative. It being stated in a handbook doesn't magically make it more legitimate. When, AGAIN, Odins galaxy busting/threatening and Sentry's one million exploding suns was used by many authors. Which would solidify the fact they felt that was an accurate depiction of their power.

And the kiri thing doesn't confirm anything that pertains to solar system busting...He can destroy 15+ Earth-type planets, okay. That still isn't a solar system busting feat. Even if we assume he wasn't full power, and it was the beginning of the Buu Saga and compare it to his power at the end of the Saga, there's still really nothing to suggest he could destroy a solar system based on the kiri "math".

Because he hasn`t been working on it for years and like I said it doesn`t contradict with Cell`s statement so you mentioning it repeatedly doesn`t make any sense.

Yes it does. It was further confirmed by the creator, the handbook is there to give a much more deeper understanding of the universe of Dragon Ball and it is in detail explained by the creator in regards to what he was trying to present. Yes by many authors but was it confirmed in an official handbook or was it confirmed by the official creator himself? Many writers from Marvel contradict themselves as shown in interviews and even feats shown within comics it is because of the many writers that have control over the same character and the idea of that character can be changed.

Actually it does, this was Goku in SSJ1 form and not SSJ3 form also planets through the comparison of earth as it said 1-2 planets can be destroyed by 200-300 kili alone, Goku was at a PL of 3,000 and that was him in SSJ1 form.

Yes it does make sense. Because he can't even remember something basic about his main character. And admits to being extremely forgetful when it comes to pretty much everything DBZ.

But there was no in depth explanation or anything regarding Cells solar system busting. Why does it need to be confirmed in a handbook when it's confirmed in canon on panel? Akira Toriyama contradicts himself from DB to DBZ, pretty consistently. Sentry/Void has better feats than pretty much everyone in DBZ.

His powerlevel isn't 3000. His kiri level is 3000. Destroying 10-15 Earth's does not translate into magically being able to blow up solar systems. But there is no formula for determining kiri, is there. So we have absolutely no idea how it scales.

And how does that exactly contradict with Cell`s statement during the time he wrote the manga some long time ago? When in present times he hasn`t worked on his manga for roughly 17 years.

It doesn`t change the fact that Cell can destroy the Soar System whether it would be through the destruction of the sun or through the destruction of all the planets through concentrated attacks then it doesn`t need to become so complicated the fact is that he possesses the power to do so and it being sourced through a handbook is to give a more understanding of the idea, him having it written within the handbooks doesn`t make it less credible or understandable and Marvel or DC doesn`t contradict themselves? Sentry/Void having better feats would justify for him possessing the power of millions of exploding suns?

His PL and ki level was defined through the measurements of kiri/kili. Destroying 10-15 planets greater than the size of earth matters since the point was Goku was in SSJ1 form when that measurement was measured and the Scouter accurately measures kiri where are you getting formula from? Also this idea is methodically shown within DBZ through PLs and how powerful a character becomes once he ascends or evolves passed another character in defeating something more significantly powerful.

#87 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@debeze said:

@xeon1cs: That doesnt matter if the creator doesnt remember who cares? if he said he can then.. HE CAN! cause HE... IS .. .THE.... C-R-E-A-T-O-R. its official, opinions dont count .

guys dont be biased ....

Bills is a Solar system buster but not a Galaxy buster.

Whis his master stated it (he should know better)

And the authors of Sentry and Odin said they can bust galaxies and have the power of one million exploding suns. So it must be official then. It was in canon.

Not being biased. He's just making an awful argument.

#88 Posted by debeze (243 posts) - - Show Bio

goku base form 300

goku ssj1 increases power by 10x 3,000 kiri

goku ssj2 increases power by 20x 3,000=60,000 kiri

goku ssj3 increases power by 40x 60,000=2,400,000 kiri

2,400,000/ 300=8000 planets

SSJG power is way higher

bills 70%power defeated ssjg full power

#89 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave said:

@xeon1cs said:

@neongamewave: He couldn't remember probably the biggest transformation Goku went through in the Buu Saga? Or one of the biggest transformations Goku went through in probably the entirety of DBZ?

But it was not only stated by characters, but also written in the narrative. It being stated in a handbook doesn't magically make it more legitimate. When, AGAIN, Odins galaxy busting/threatening and Sentry's one million exploding suns was used by many authors. Which would solidify the fact they felt that was an accurate depiction of their power.

And the kiri thing doesn't confirm anything that pertains to solar system busting...He can destroy 15+ Earth-type planets, okay. That still isn't a solar system busting feat. Even if we assume he wasn't full power, and it was the beginning of the Buu Saga and compare it to his power at the end of the Saga, there's still really nothing to suggest he could destroy a solar system based on the kiri "math".

Because he hasn`t been working on it for years and like I said it doesn`t contradict with Cell`s statement so you mentioning it repeatedly doesn`t make any sense.

Yes it does. It was further confirmed by the creator, the handbook is there to give a much more deeper understanding of the universe of Dragon Ball and it is in detail explained by the creator in regards to what he was trying to present. Yes by many authors but was it confirmed in an official handbook or was it confirmed by the official creator himself? Many writers from Marvel contradict themselves as shown in interviews and even feats shown within comics it is because of the many writers that have control over the same character and the idea of that character can be changed.

Actually it does, this was Goku in SSJ1 form and not SSJ3 form also planets through the comparison of earth as it said 1-2 planets can be destroyed by 200-300 kili alone, Goku was at a PL of 3,000 and that was him in SSJ1 form.

Yes it does make sense. Because he can't even remember something basic about his main character. And admits to being extremely forgetful when it comes to pretty much everything DBZ.

But there was no in depth explanation or anything regarding Cells solar system busting. Why does it need to be confirmed in a handbook when it's confirmed in canon on panel? Akira Toriyama contradicts himself from DB to DBZ, pretty consistently. Sentry/Void has better feats than pretty much everyone in DBZ.

His powerlevel isn't 3000. His kiri level is 3000. Destroying 10-15 Earth's does not translate into magically being able to blow up solar systems. But there is no formula for determining kiri, is there. So we have absolutely no idea how it scales.

And how does that exactly contradict with Cell`s statement during the time he wrote the manga some long time ago? When in present times he hasn`t worked on his manga for roughly 17 years.

It doesn`t change the fact that Cell can destroy the Soar System whether it would be through the destruction of the sun or through the destruction of all the planets through concentrated attacks then it doesn`t need to become so complicated the fact is that he possesses the power to do so and it being sourced through a handbook is to give a more understanding of the idea, him having written in the handbooks doesn`t make it less credible or understandable and Marvel or DC doesn`t contradict themselves? Sentry/Void having better feats would justify for him possessing the power of millions of exploding suns?

His PL and ki level was defined through the measurements of kiri/kili. Destroying 10-15 planets greater than the size of earth matters since the point was Goku was in SSJ1 form when that measurement was measured and the Scouter accurately measures kiri where are you getting formula from? Also it is methodically shown with DBZ through PLs and how powerful a character becomes one he ascends or evolves passed another character in defeating something more significantly powerful.

So you get to discredit multiple authors, who have given on panel and narrative statements about characters, but we can't discredit a statement in a handbook, simply because it was written by the author? Did a magical unicorn write the "Power of One Million Suns" and galaxy busting in the Sentry/Odin comics? No, it was the authors.

You keep saying it was put in the handbook to give a better understanding of the idea, but it wasn't, it wasn't even really expanded upon. Gokus kiri at the time was 3000. Like you said, 10-15 Earths. Even taking into account saiyan multipliers, that doesn't translate into blowing up solar systems or suns.

#90 Posted by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs: What are you talking about? The difference is that Cell was further sourced by an official handbook that gives more credibility to the fact and actually clarifies the statement also by the methodical system that was set-up within DBZ it would make sense for Cell to be able to perform such a feat. Multiple authors not creators who change and contradict the character, however your not understanding my argument or point, my point is that if these same Marvel and DC characters can be so justified then why is there so much disregard for DBZ? Also what are the many feats and showings that help further the point of Sentry having the power of Millions of Suns? Unless it was only stated, unlike DBZ where there is a systematical system set in order called PL and Power Scaling also progression over character, what has Sentry done to hint this claim? See my point, and the real argument at hand was what I stated above in regards to there being bias against DBZ so I will not repeat myself especially when someone keeps ignoring my points and running around circles so don`t bother repeat the same thing over and over again its not going anywhere.

Yes it was. It was further sourced and made clear within the handbook which is written by the creator not a regular guy or fan who turned the source material into fan fiction and like I said it doesn`t change the fact that Cell would be able to destroy the Solar System, there is a problem though, Sentry having the power of exploding suns wasn`t expanded on really either and on top of that wasn`t confirmed by the creator himself or further described in a handbook to show the fans or observers, so what is your point exactly? 10-15 planets at once or more denser or greater in size than earth also why doesn`t it or why can`t a SSJ3 destroy a Solar System, can you prove otherwise?

#91 Posted by ImperiexPrime (27 posts) - - Show Bio

The God of Destruction wins here, wasn't Surfer beaten by a weaker Eternal God. What's his name?

#92 Posted by ComicStooge (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

The God of Destruction wins here, wasn't Surfer beaten by a weaker Eternal God. What's his name?

Having the title of a 'God' doesn't mean anything. For example, Thor is the God of Thunder, but a blood lusted Surfer can beat him.

#93 Posted by ImperiexPrime (27 posts) - - Show Bio

NeonGameWave has no idea what he's talking about; he's already admitted he hasn't seen the movie.

First, Bills is NOT a galaxy buster.

It has NOT been disapproved so this is false.

#94 Posted by ImperiexPrime (27 posts) - - Show Bio

@imperiexprime said:

The God of Destruction wins here, wasn't Surfer beaten by a weaker Eternal God. What's his name?

Having the title of a 'God' doesn't mean anything. For example, Thor is the God of Thunder, but a blood lusted Surfer can beat him.

And I didn't state that it did mean anything, I said he was beaten by a weaker Eternal God, and used the title Eternal God for lack of name reference.

#95 Posted by ComicStooge (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@imperiexprime said:

The God of Destruction wins here, wasn't Surfer beaten by a weaker Eternal God. What's his name?

Having the title of a 'God' doesn't mean anything. For example, Thor is the God of Thunder, but a blood lusted Surfer can beat him.

And I didn't state that it did mean anything, I said he was beaten by a weaker Eternal God, and used the title Eternal God for lack of name reference.

Fair enough, I mistook what you meant.

#96 Posted by ComicStooge (12807 posts) - - Show Bio

NeonGameWave has no idea what he's talking about; he's already admitted he hasn't seen the movie.

First, Bills is NOT a galaxy buster. He has no galaxy busting feats. Piccolo says something about the galaxy being erased or something to that effect, but that power was never shown in the movie. Second, Majin Buu wasn't able to perform matter transmutation on Bills but this doesn't really mean anything. Majin Buu's matter transmutation is predicated on magic but Silver Surfer is powered by the Power Cosmic, not magic. Third, a blood lusted Silver Surfer has unleashed enough energy to create a black hole before so there's no reason to think he couldn't absorb all of Bill's energy attacks. Fourth, Silver Surfer also has TP, which Bills has no resistance to. Fifth, speed blitz is out of the question. With his board SS is MFTL and there's just no way Bills is going to tag a blood lusted SS.

My guess is the fight starts and Norrin absorbs Bills into his board, mind rapes him with TP, creates a black hole, transmutes him, disassembles him on a subatomic level or kills Bills in any number of horrible ways.

Anyway, this.

Surfer is too versatile and has too much raw power on his side to lose.

#97 Posted by 18hunt (2904 posts) - - Show Bio

Bills ftw

#98 Edited by Lvenger (19905 posts) - - Show Bio

God these Bills threads are making the battle forums worse and worse by the day.

#99 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

So Bills is a solar system or Galaxy buster??

#100 Edited by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@ferdelance: He's neither. Bills never busted a solar system or a galaxy.