Bills vs Broly, Kid Buu, and Omega Shenron

@nathaniel_christopher: All 3 are nothing to bills...omega shenron got killed by the same spirit bomb that kid buu pushed back...also ssjg is the strongest saiyan form...and bills still beat that using less than 70%...if anything GT is such a contradictory mess that any statements made are null and void...and bills was named the strongest in all dbz except for whis...

Beerus is still lightyears ahead of all of them in every category. Broly and Buu get one-shotted and Omega will fare no better against a character who casually zips through nebulas and across the universe with such mindblowing speed, casually destroys stars, erases whole solar systems and has been suggested by Elder Kai to easily be capable of destroying the universe.

@micah: pretty much this...all 3 are non factors only characters who have a chance are ssg goku and vegeta and golden frieza...

Uhhh, no. Omega Shenron was killed by a Universal Spirit Bomb. Kid Buu by a Super Spirit Bomb.

Energy from Around the Universe>Energy from Around the Earth.

Both are pretty much moot as well, seeing as a Spirit Bomb has nothing to do with Goku's own energy and more than likely isn't going to be used in this battle. Whether you think Beerus wins or not, comparing acting as if Omega is on the same level as Kid Buu or Broly is silly.

Kami is a god, stated as such all through DB and DBZ. Guess what.... he is well below Goku lol. Same for Kais. Sheron is a god, he is the only characters who reality warps.

Bringing up the term god is nonsense as proof for Beerus.

@nathaniel_christopher: gokus super spirit bomb was energy collected from the universe against kid buu so yhh it was the same spirit bomb...GT contradicts itself so hard that powerscaling them from z makes no sense...also theoretically omega is the strongest on the team but bills would still pimp slap that...the difference between omega and buu is so minimal in terms of bills power that he'll defeat them all with ease...

@sirfizzwhizz: ohh please comparing kami to bills is pure bs and you know it...whether you like it or not toriyama stated that bills is the strongest in dbz and that includes the whole meta-franchise so omega shenron would get stomped it's that simple

lol no it wasn't. You need to go back and watch that fight again. Goku hadn't even traversed the universe at that point, so that logically doesn't even make any sense.

I'm again not arguing for whether Omega would win or not and never said he would in my original statement, but he's stronger than Kid Buu, who would in turn be stomped by SS4 Goku.

@nathaniel_christopher: gokus spirit bomb was made from everyone on earth, the otherworld and new namek...that's pretty much a universe worth if not more...also omega shenron stomping ssj4 goku doesn't make it any harder for bills it's all fodder regardless whoever is stronger out the team...you're argument is pointless as you're suggesting omega shenron acc makes a difference

No its not. A universe is a universe. Trying to argue anything less is illogical.

My only argument at the moment is that Omega Shenron's in a different class than both Kid Buu and Broly, which he is. You've literally provided no proof against that, and keep returning to how he'd fair against Beerus, as if i'm arguing that, when I never have been. You therefore seem to be arguing for no real reason.

@nathaniel_christopher: it can be argued that it is at least universal, due to the fact that dragon ball super states this in the first episode and otherworld containing every good person who's ever died since time began...also powerscaling is the only justification you have for saying omega is stronger which I doubt because vegito ssj1 >= ssj4 gogeta meaning omega shenron is only between buu han levels and vegito levels...which still stomps kid buu but ONLY via powerscaling and even then it shows that GT isn't as strong as people think it is...no version of goku EVER guts cut by glass or owned by a building...no trunks has a problem picking up a bag and no way does anyone anywhere get beating by the parapara bros...that being said he may (theortically) be stronger but the gap isn't enough to mean much...it's not like it acc makes a difference in the outcome...

Broly can't even beat SS2 let alone 3 lol.

Not really, as Goku takes energy from the same places and more at the end of GT. No matter how you slice it, the Spirit Bomb used against Buu isn't the equivalent to the one used against Omega. Then take into account that SS4 is stronger than SS3. It's not powerscaling, it's a fact, and Omega is again capable of stomping SS4. There's no argument here as to who is superior between Omega Shenron and Kid Buu.

Beyond that, there's then no further argument to be had.

Omega Shenron wins this himself, Broly and Kid Buu die by accident

@nathaniel_christopher: In the GT files vegito>= ssj4 so omega shenron can't even beat vegito ssj so ssj4 can easily be beaten by buu han so the gap isn't THAT wide...goku never transverse the universe in GT either so that doesn't mean anything...dragon ball super is cannon and had stated that the energy was created from energy throughout the universe...goku used the same spirit bomb and omega contributes nothing to the battle more than buu or broly because all 3 would get head-topped it's not that hard to understand...

Unless you have a quote for that GT files info, no.

That logic makes no sense. For one thing, Buuhan can't beat Vegito, so anyone else that can't beat Vegito is in the exact same boat as him. You're saying that if Omega Shenron can't beat Vegito, who stomped Buuhan easily, that Buuhan can beat Omega Shenron? LMFAO no. As with some of your previous statements, that makes 0 sense.

I'm well aware that Super is canon. However, it is once more a FACT that Goku went to far more planets in GT than he ever has within the confines of Z, and at the moment Super. Goku at the end of GT, for the third time, pulls energy from the exact same places he does at the end of Z, plus the new places he's been to in GT. You honestly have no logical argument here. You're saying an attack that has more energy in GT is equivalent to one with less energy in Z. SMH silly. It's like arguing that the Spirit Bomb used against Frieza is equal to the one used against Kid Buu.

You then once more revert to your previous tactic, which i've long since pointed out i'm not arguing with anyways, of comparing Omega to Bills. All i'm saying, which stands so far, is that Omega Shenron is far superior to Bills and Broly. The gap between Omega Shenron and Kid Buu is as large as the gap between Heaven and Earth.

EDIT: Also I just re-read the manga from chapter 515 to 517, which covers Goku forming the Spirit Bomb, and he actually doesn't take energy from Otherworld at all, or New Namek for that matter. He only takes energy from the people of Earth, with the aid of Hercule, so your argument about all the people contained in Otherworld is moot.

@nathaniel_christopher: if you take it from all over the universe it's from all over the universe idk how you can take more when the universe is all there is...the spirit bomb on namek was from the planetary system (solar system) and buus was stated to be from around the whole universe...goku only went around 1 galaxy in GT but still managed to take from the whole universe...it's irrelevant anyway as omega shenron is below vegito but above buuhan...this can be backed by my earlier statement regarding vegito rivalling and beating a ssj4 and buhhans feat of attempting to destroy reality via chain reaction by screaming...omega also attempted this with his strongest attack which all implies that the gap isn't much bigger than initially thought...and my acc point was that omega shenron's (theoretical) difference in power compared to buu and broly don't matter for obvious reasons

As I said in my Edit in my last post, Goku didn't take energy from either Otherworld or New Namek to form the Spirit Bomb he used against Kid Buu. He only took energy from Earth. So its a moot point.

his can be backed by my earlier statement regarding vegito rivalling and beating a ssj4 and buhhans feat of attempting to destroy reality via chain reaction by screaming..

lmfao no. Nice try though, as you have yet to prove that he's below Vegito, just as you have yet to prove that SS4 Gogeta is below Vegito. It's a moot comparison anyways, as the gap between those two and Kid Buu is also extremely vast.

Nothing you've said so far matters, as its pretty much all been wrong. I'll repeat, Omega Shenron is leagues stronger than Kid Buu.

@nathaniel_christopher: it's in the GT perfect files vegito is stronger than a ssj4 whether you beieve me or not isn't relevant GT themselves have said that...also super is canon to the manga also stated the energy was from throughout the universe so it was a universal spirit bomb...and my main point was regardless of the gap (which I have addressed) is irrelevant your initial point was trying to say omega acc stood more of a chance than buu or broly...

Since you've failed to provide evidence of your claim i'll assume that it isn't true.

No lol the manga never said that at all, but you're welcome to look through it and point that out. Again, Goku forms the Spirit Bomb in chapters 515 to 517. Furthermore, Super's statement about the Otherworld is irrelevant, as Goku didn't gather energy from Otherworld. As I stated in my last post, the energy for it only comes from Earth. Thus stating it is a Universal Spirit Bomb is illogical.

Omega does stand more of a chance than Buu or Broly, as he's leagues beyond either of them.

Straight from Super itself. lol I eagerly await your continued argument against this though.

WOULD YOU JUST SHUT UP FOR ONE SECOND AND CALL FORTH THE SUPER SAIYAN GOOOOOOOODDD???!!!

@nathaniel_christopher: if bills was ranked 1000 and buu was ranked 1 and omega was 20 yes omega is stronger but will still be having outclassed to the point in which raditz can take his place and the outcome will still be the same...you are claiming that there is a palpable chance of omega doing ANYTHING which is clearly not the case search up the GT files right now it will tell you...either way I already acknowledged that omega shenron (theoretically) is stronger than kid buu...spirit bomb is irrelevant...

Broly and Buu get one-shotted. Omega Shenron is the only one that stands a chance, but loses.

Of course the Spirit Bomb is irrelevant. I stated that over an hour ago. You're the one who kept trying to harp on about it through some feeble effort to shorten the gap between Omega and Kid Buu.

Beyond that, everything else is in your head, as i've repeatedly stated that I wasn't arguing that Omega Shenron would defeat Beerus. Simply that he'd fare better. Which even in your comparison (Where Omega is a 20 and Buu a 1) he would.

There's therefore nothing more to say.

@nathaniel_christopher: not really bills could use one attack and kill them all how does omega fare better???

And GT perfect files are not in my head

Beerus isn't killing Omega in one attack for one thing. And two, as I previously stated, unless you have proof of this statement from the Perfect Files, i'm going to go under the assumption that it doesn't exist. Because otherwise it's just as factual as your claim about Goku gathering energy from around the universe to defeat Kid Buu.

@nathaniel_christopher: looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool omega shenron is fodder beers is an author stated universe buster and proven casual multi star buster...he tapped a planet and destroyed it bills is in a completely different league he could easily create a blast stronger than the universal spirit bomb...GT perfect files have stated vegito is stronger than a ssj4...you not wanting to acc check yourself has nothing to do with the fact that that's been said...trunks acc managed to hold back omega shenron in Base form and deflect an attack in ssj...omega is a huge pile of overhyped crap who couldn't even kill hercule with a kick...

Being stronger than a Super Saiyan 4 isn't the same as being stronger than Gogeta, which is what you originally claimed. The Perfect files make no mention of Vegito being stronger than Gogeta my man. At most they say he's superior to SS4 Goku.

LMFAO there is no statement anywhere claiming Beerus is a universe buster. Old Kai personally implies that Beerus is a solar system buster, but nowhere have I seen it stated that he could destroy a universe. You're reaching again.

@nathaniel_christopher: vegito ssj1 is stronger than ssj4 so ssj3 instantly makes him stronger than omega...Old kai was locked in the z sword by bills because bills wanted to destroy the kaio shin realm (which is 1/5 of the DBU) but wasn't allowed to, keep in mind this was when he was weaker than buu...he's clearly over 5x stronger since then...also in dragon Ball super (anime) old kai stated that beers could destroy the whole universe...omega would get wiped in one hit it really is that simple...you act like omega will acc survive which means you are implying universal spirit bomb > bills...which is laughable to say the least...

Which isn't what you originally claimed lol you honestly keep changing your argument when you trip over yourself or are proven wrong. SS1 Vegito isn't stronger than SS4 Gogeta, as you claimed. End of story.

Omega's not losing in one hit. You still have yet to provide any type of evidence of that. At most all you've proven is that Beerus is stronger than he used to be (Where he was weaker than Super Buu) which is irrelevant as Omega is also stronger than Beerus was at that point. You've then tried to make claims to put Omega near Kid Buu in strength, and failed. Tried to claim that Omega is weaker than Vegito, by claiming that SS1 Vegito is superior to SS4 Gogeta, and failed. So basically you again have yet to prove that Omega is massively weaker than Beerus.

you act like omega will acc survive which means you are implying universal spirit bomb > bills

So what you're saying is, by not agreeing with you about Omega being killed in one hit, but stating that he'd do better than Kid Buu and Broly, while still losing, is implying that Omega would survive and that the Universal Spirit Bomb is superior to Beerus? You fail at logic forever.

As i've stated previously, seeing as I never once said Omega would defeat Beerus, you're arguing for no reason.

@nathaniel_christopher: The guidebook acc states vegito rivals a ssj4 the ssj4 is not specific to who it's referring too so you can argue ssj1 vegito > goku ssj4 and ssj1 vegito >= so by all accounts omega can only be at best equal to vegito ssj1, ssj2 vegito is more than enough...and considering a fusion (stated by goku wouldn't beat a heavily surpressed bills) was out of the question that IMMEDIATELY says surpressed bills > omega shenron...honestly toriyama himself has stated it doesn't even take his full power to destroy a universe and omega could only do it via chain reaction...Omega shenron is still weaker than someone in dbz and therefore makes him fodder by DEFAULT...omega was killed in one hit...he never survived the spirit bomb...to say bills will perform an attack and not kill him suggests that you are implying universal spirit bomb >bills...which is a fallacy...what you fail to understand is that what bills did to ssj3 goku is EXACTLY what he'll do to omega buu and broly...therefore being a little more powerful (which omega really isn't because GT is a horrible inconsistent mess) means nothing

No, it states SS4 Goku. There's no argument to be made.

So going from there, Vegito is useless against Beerus. Agreed, but this doesn't include SS4 Gogeta for fairly obvious reasons, who is the only character we've seen to be stronger than Omega, so that statement then doesn't say anything in terms of how a fight between Omega vs Beerus would do.

No. An attack could fall under anything from a flick to the noggin to a universal spirit bomb, and anything that exists beyond that. Unless you're arguing that Beerus is going to be using such a powerful attack at the start of his fight with Omega Shenron, then Omega's not going down in one attack. Omega Shenron wasn't killed in one hit. Stating that implies that there wasn't a lengthy fight beforehand, durign which numerous attacks were thrown at him and failed to kill him. That'd be like saying Kid Buu was killed in one hit, or that Cell was killed in one hit. There were numerous attacks that preceeded all of their deaths.

Again though, at this point you're arguing just to argue.

@nathaniel_christopher: heavily surpressed bills>>>>>omega shenron there would really be no effort at all on bills part he'll tap shenron's head and omega will be atomized...it only takes the sun to kill him which beers can casually destroy...he had to steal novas body to survive the heat so bills won't really have any trouble...

lmfao

And what proves Beerus > Omega Shenron ?

@sun-wukong: he's been stated by toriyama to be the strongest in the whole of the db meta-franchise which (unfortunately) includes GT...making even gogeta<bills...omega shenron couldn't even beat gogeta so bills would whack his shit...not to mention bills can destroy the whole 7th universe and omega could only hope to do so via chain reaction...I doubt toriyama would make bills < shenron because that defeats the whole purpose of gods being the strongest in the DBU...

ALL OF THIS!!1

@nathaniel_christopher: you know you can't dispute that

Shenron solos.

Buu and Broly die from the 1st contact.

Wasn't Whis stated to be the strongest ?

@xiokenji: yes whis is the strongest but only whis surpasses bills...which toriyama never mentioned pre BOG release because it was meant to be a surprised revealed during the film...but only whis in the whole dbu can beat bills...

Well AT didn't have a hand in GT. That's the problem, he even said movies and such don't relate to the canon series which Beerus is apart off. In the past, according to Popo, the shadow dragon destroyed all the cosmos. Being universal is not the problem since they both make an argument for it.

@sun-wukong: you are right about ATs role in dbgt but dbgt by name is sadly part of the db franchise like the films and games etc...it's non canon but for the sake of the thread GT exists...and popo said he destroyed all the cosmos in the GALAXY not the entire universe...clearly as goku performs a universal spirit bomb...omega can only destroy the universe via chain reaction while it's heavily implied and stated that beers can destroy the universe off the bat...omega really doesn't compare at all...

I doubt AT knows about GT that's the problem, when he makes statement like this, he is properly reflecting on the DBZ series rather then GT which doesn't relate to it to begin with. No he said they appeared on a planet, and the planet was destroyed along with the cosmos surrounding it. It wasn't galaxy. Omega could destroy the universe on the spot if he wanted, especially if the shadow dragon done it in the past. And being universal is not a problem really.

team rolfstomps

@sun-wukong: He does know about GT he has stated in numerous interviews that GT was a side story and that he designed the logo and some main characters but his overall involvement was very low...

Lool omega cannot destroy a universe in one go...elder kai made a very clear point in that by stating that his negative energy will EVENTUALLY erode the universe...he cannot create a blast that would wipe out the universe flat out, partly because he wouldn't even survive if he could (being defeated by a universal spirit bomb and all) and because the universe is clearly still there and none of the events of dragon Ball would EVER have taken place...at full power omega can only destroy the universe via chain reaction which is something buuhan could do and vegito stomped him like fodder...

bills has been stated by toriyama and it has been stated and implied in manga and anime that he can destroy the universe...they are nowhere near each other in terms of power and god ki makes the whole argument obselete as the negative energy wouldn't even hurt him...bills&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;&amp;gt;omega shenron even if we powerscaling it from EOZ (excluding battle of gods)...omega shenron is overhyped because the idea of GT is that it surpasses Z because of time line and certain (contradicted) statements made throughout the show...when really he is at best just above vegito ssj1 and that immediately makes him fodder as bills (heavily surpressed)&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;vegito...

It's a side story, not apart of the main series, if he was the strongest, he would of mentioned GT along with it. He never had a hand in it.

That's just Omega Shenron natural existence, it's not like he is proving he cannot destroy the universe by himself if he can naturally do it without lifting a hand. And he did shove all his negative energy inside his negative karma ball. The shadow dragon in the past already destroyed the cosmos, proving they can destroy the universe. And don't mix what happened in fillers, if using power scaling then omega is obviously universal and more.

Base Goku in GT already makes an argument on being stronger then Vegito since Rildo > Majin Buu and Kid Buu in fillers is said to be above Gohan-buu. And Goku in base is already stronger then base rildo, and his SSJ is already hundred folds higher according to Rildo. Not to mention Super baby 2 is the strongest Ki Goku ever seen. Vegito is nothing to GT, Omega Shenron is over 100 times above SSj4 Goku Shadow dragon saga since Syn Shenron tanked 10x kamehameha from SSj4 Goku and Omega Shenron said he is 10 times stronger then Syn Shenron.

And Shadow Dragon SSj4 Goku > Super 17 SSj4 Goku > Baby Saga SSj4 Goku

To be more precise

SSj4 Goku Baby saga is 10 x greater then Super baby 2 since he rivals Great ape baby, and great ape form is 10 x above the user. And Super baby 2 is already the strongest Ki ever, meaning > SSj Vegito easily. Super baby 2 is way above SSj3 Goku, where Majuub put up a decent challenge meaning Majuub in baby saga > SSj3 Goku baby Saga.

In Super 17 Saga, SSj Goku > SSJ Vegeta >> Majuub since they done way better then him.

Being above Vegito is not impressive, he is fodder in Baby saga let alone Shadow Dragon level.

Beerus beside you assuming AT is including GT has no shown anything putting him OS level at all. Beerus only get's the Super 17 since he rivals SSGSS Goku who should be 50 x (assuming using his normal SSj multiplier) of SSJG which is above Vegito already.