#1 Posted by jashro44 (25536 posts) - - Show Bio
VS

Rules

Big boss has a pistol with a sincler with 10 clips, A Kevlar vest, a sub machine gun with 3 clips, and a CQC knife

Ultimate hawkeye has standard gear except nuke arrow. He is also given infrared goggles if needed

Win by KO/death/incapacitation

Morals are on

Location

Both begin visible

Start 30 feat apart

Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by Bo88gdan (4673 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Hawkeye FTW

#3 Posted by jashro44 (25536 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan: Reason?

#4 Posted by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: it's almost impossible for him to miss

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#5 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: has he ever missed? i cant remember 1 time he missed.

#6 Posted by dondave (38906 posts) - - Show Bio

@theTimeStreamer: if I ever it's probably before he got his eye implants

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#7 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

get in here and debate.

Anyway, I'm giving the edge to Ultimate Hawkeye, because they start visible. With standard gear, he can use razor, bola, and taser arrows to incapacitate and his rate of fire is obscene. I don't see Big Boss dodging from this close, and although he has impressive durability a headshot should still put him down.

#8 Posted by jashro44 (25536 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@jashro44: it's almost impossible for him to miss

Possibly. But he is shooting a target that is pretty fast and agile.

#9 Posted by sync1 (2990 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye would tag him before Big boss lands any shots on him. I believe a headshot IS all it takes.

#10 Posted by nickzambuto (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Esquire said:

get in here and debate.

On it.

@dondave said:

@jashro44: it's almost impossible for him to miss

His aim is perfect, but his arrows aren't. All you have to do is move faster than the projectile fired; Doc Ock was effortlessly deflecting Hawkeye's entire arsenal from make-out distance without batting an eye.

At 30 feet, Big Boss will react faster than Hawkeye to find cover. The agent has nothing to stop Snake from sneaking up on him, and then wrecking in close combat.

#11 Posted by SlimJ87D (10783 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: It says standard gear though. He carries handguns too. 
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#12 Edited by SlimJ87D (10783 posts) - - Show Bio
 
 
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#13 Posted by nickzambuto (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@nickzambuto: It says standard gear though. He carries handguns too.

He wouldn't open with those. By the time he whips them out it'll be too late.

I can post pictures too ^.^

#14 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

On it.

<3

His aim is perfect, but his arrows aren't. All you have to do is move faster than the projectile fired; Doc Ock was effortlessly deflecting Hawkeye's entire arsenal from make-out distance without batting an eye. At 30 feet, Big Boss will react faster than Hawkeye to find cover. The agent has nothing to stop Snake from sneaking up on him, and then wrecking in close combat.

Even with arrows, Clint can pump out a ridiculous spread almost instantly.

He's tagged Ultimate Spider-Man, Kraven, Toad, and Rogue w/ Toad's agility, so pure speed doesn't necessarily prevent him from hitting a target. An arrow moves at around 200 ft/sec, so it'll take less than 0.15 seconds to reach Boss at 30 feet. Pretty quick. Does Big Boss have any legit bullet-timing feats, or is it all aim dodging?

#15 Posted by SlimJ87D (10783 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: I posted the pictures as proof that he uses HGs as his standard gear lol... It wasn't to boast. 
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#16 Edited by nickzambuto (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@nickzambuto: I posted the pictures as proof that he uses HGs as his standard gear lol... It wasn't to boast.

lol

@Esquire said:

@nickzambuto said:

On it.

<3

His aim is perfect, but his arrows aren't. All you have to do is move faster than the projectile fired; Doc Ock was effortlessly deflecting Hawkeye's entire arsenal from make-out distance without batting an eye. At 30 feet, Big Boss will react faster than Hawkeye to find cover. The agent has nothing to stop Snake from sneaking up on him, and then wrecking in close combat.

Even with arrows, Clint can pump out a ridiculous spread almost instantly.

He's tagged Ultimate Spider-Man, Kraven, Toad, and Rogue w/ Toad's agility, so pure speed doesn't necessarily prevent him from hitting a target. An arrow moves at around 200 ft/sec, so it'll take less than 0.15 seconds to reach Boss at 30 feet. Pretty quick. Does Big Boss have any legit bullet-timing feats, or is it all aim dodging?

For all his skill, Hawkeye isn't a fraction as fast as a certain Revolver Ocelot who Big Boss made a hobby of humiliating in MGS3.

5:55 I'd like to see Hawkeye draw his gun fast enough to empty an entire clip into a friggin lightning bolt while being skillful enough to redirect it.

Aim dodging from Ocelot emptying his twin revolvers at you is infinitely more impressive than bullet timing. Nevertheless,

4:48, hears the sound of gunshots from barely 10 feet away and completely clears it. Snake did this so casually Kojima didn't even bother to give us a badass slow mo scene.

For all his brawn, Big Boss is still fast enough to weave through Chain Gun fire and match a guy who blitzes at thought-speed. Getting behind cover won't be difficult.

#17 Edited by SlimJ87D (10783 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickzambuto: Honestly, I think Hawkeye could fire as fast as revolver ocelot. And honestly, he fanned the gun that's why it was so fast. In that video, that's actually pretty damn slow compared to the best shooters in our world. 
 
This is without fanning. 
 
  
  This is fast right here 
  
  There's another video where a guy empties out 6 bullets in 6 separate balloons in less than 1 second. 
 
Hawkeye being one of the best and fastest marksman in a comic book could most likely recreate all these feats. 
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#18 Posted by nickzambuto (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

@SlimJ87D said:

@nickzambuto: Honestly, I think Hawkeye could fire as fast as revolver ocelot. And honestly, he fanned the gun that's why it was so fast. In that video, that's actually pretty damn slow compared to the best shooters in our world.

This is without fanning.

This is fast right here
There's another video where a guy empties out 6 bullets in 6 separate balloons in less than 1 second. Hawkeye being one of the best and fastest marksman in a comic book could most likely recreate all these feats.

The video was slowed down, obviously if it were shown as fast as it was no one would of known what happened.

Lightning goes fast. Ocelot managed to draw his revolver and empty his gun into Volgin's electricity after it was fired. I don't see Hawkeye replicating that, true superhuman speed and perception is required to misdirect a projectile going several hundred machs if not more.

#19 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: @Esquire: @SlimJ87D: Ulti... Ultimate... ULTIMATE HAWKEYE!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO ONE TAG ME??????!!!!!!

Ultimate Hawkeye so wins this its not even funny.

Arrows are his bread and butter but so are Guns.

He can launch 6 arrows a second with Deadshot Accuracy. He killed entire room of Captain Britain Supermen with nothing but arrows.

As seen Hawkeye is a expert Marksman with ANYTHING. Kitchen Utensils, Cards, A Pen, FINGER NAILS!!!

HE CC skill is enough to take on train Super Humans. He is a SJIELD Black Ops Operative. He also is the only one out of hundreds to survive a Bomb Explosian (saving one other to boot). Hell he is Fury's best Human Operative.

As seen HE has the unique ability no his surroundings at any given time and the coordinates for a perfect shot.

HE Dodges Bullets on the fly easy as well. His arrows and Speed is accurate enough to tag BW attempt to dodge. Black widow is a Superhuman in Speed and Reflexes. Super Human.

HE Feat include tagging Ghost Rider traveling at super Speeds a mile away with a RPG of all things! Tagging a chaotic 200 MPH Hulk. Tagging a Super Human in Speed and Reflex Kraven the Hunter. Eye Shotting Sabertooth while he is flailing around. Tagging the Super Agility and Skill of Dodging Toad and Rogue with Toads Powers. Eye Shotting Venom!

HE with Guns to his head killed all the Guards effortlessly.

Ultimate Hawkeye has shown more skilled in a battle than BIG BOSS ever has. Here he takes on Multiple Super Humans with Arrows and even Glass while being attacked at the same time in the most Frenzy skirmish.

Big Boss is so dead...

#20 Edited by SlimJ87D (10783 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: it really didn't slow down to me, I remember being able to roll out of the way of his lightning in the game. But again, the main point. He fanned the gun, he wouldn't be able to do the same with a normal gun which has a heavy trigger, etc. And in world competitions the quick draw 6 balloon shoot outs are done in milliseconds not 1 second. If Hawkeye had a revolver, and knowing his perfect aiming abilities, he could easily fan a gun and hit all his targets in milliseconds.

In the scan above, Wolverine barely lunged at him and he shot 3 bullets from each hand without a gun that you can fan, 6 total. That's human millisecond reaction time at its best. So he's pretty fast at the draw. If you don't believe he's as fast as Ocelot, fair enough, but he's fast enough where a few millisecond difference in time wouldn't matter and he has something that Ocelot doesn't have, near perfect aim. We've seen Ocelot miss plenty of times.

And it's not like he doesn't have good CQC himself. Look how close all these guys were and they had him surrounded.

But I really don't understand doing ABC logic here. It's like saying, Solid Snake beat Big Boss, Solid Snake has been captured by getting a gun pointed behind him after fighting sniper wolf, Hawkeye was surrounded from behind by a group of men and took them all out. Solid Snake couldn't do the same, Solid Snake beat Big Boss, therefore Hawkeye is better. I don't think it works unless both characters are a lot alike. Ocelot and Hawkeye are very different at what they do so it's hard to compare and contrast the two to Big Boss.

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#21 Posted by SHAZAM117 (3902 posts) - - Show Bio

Per op, both are visible...I feel thats the key to this fight and because of that Ult.Hawkeye should win. If Big Boss could get the drop on Hawkeye it's a different story

#22 Edited by nickzambuto (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

Hawkeye is accurate but unless he can kill a platoon of armed men before anyone can even react, he's not capable of drawing his bow, pulling back an arrow, and firing before Big Boss dives.

it really didn't slow down to me, I remember being able to roll out of the way of his lightning in the game.

Game mechanics. If we count those Hawkeye isn't even capable of harming Big Boss at all so this debate is over.

He fanned the gun, he wouldn't be able to do the same with a normal gun which has a heavy trigger, etc. And in world competitions the quick draw 6 balloon shoot outs are done in milliseconds not 1 second. If Hawkeye had a revolver, and knowing his perfect aiming abilities, he could easily fan a gun and hit all his targets in milliseconds.

Doesn't matter how fast he shoots, it matters how he reacted to lightning being shot at him fast enough to misdirect it's focal point with exact accuracy. Hawkeye is not nearly that fast.

And it's not like he doesn't have good CQC himself. Look how close all these guys were and they had him surrounded.

Big Boss has defeated armed squadrons with his bare hands plenty of times. More than that he's also beaten not-cannon fodder. Hawkeye isn't getting anywhere h2h.

Solid Snake has been captured by getting a gun pointed behind him after fighting sniper wolf,

Sorry, I forgot game characters aren't allowed to have PIS. It's not like 5 minutes after this happened Snake singlehandedly annihilated a group of armed men before anyone could even react or CQCed a squadron of invisible super soldiers in a close quarters elevator or anything.

No wait, that did happen.

#23 Posted by quatro_briefs (384 posts) - - Show Bio

I am also giving this to Snake. He is a master stealth and weapons and more bad ass than Hawkeye.

#24 Posted by nickzambuto (15007 posts) - - Show Bio

@quatro_briefs said:

I am also giving this to Snake. He is a master stealth and weapons and more bad ass than Hawkeye.

This is also true.

#25 Edited by SlimJ87D (10783 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

Hawkeye is accurate but unless he can kill a platoon of armed men before anyone can even react, he's not capable of drawing his bow, pulling back an arrow, and firing before Big Boss dives.

it really didn't slow down to me, I remember being able to roll out of the way of his lightning in the game.

Game mechanics. If we count those Hawkeye isn't even capable of harming Big Boss at all so this debate is over.

He fanned the gun, he wouldn't be able to do the same with a normal gun which has a heavy trigger, etc. And in world competitions the quick draw 6 balloon shoot outs are done in milliseconds not 1 second. If Hawkeye had a revolver, and knowing his perfect aiming abilities, he could easily fan a gun and hit all his targets in milliseconds.

Doesn't matter how fast he shoots, it matters how he reacted to lightning being shot at him fast enough to misdirect it's focal point with exact accuracy. Hawkeye is not nearly that fast.

And it's not like he doesn't have good CQC himself. Look how close all these guys were and they had him surrounded.

Big Boss has defeated armed squadrons with his bare hands plenty of times. More than that he's also beaten not-cannon fodder. Hawkeye isn't getting anywhere h2h.

Solid Snake has been captured by getting a gun pointed behind him after fighting sniper wolf,

Sorry, I forgot game characters aren't allowed to have PIS. It's not like 5 minutes after this happened Snake singlehandedly annihilated a group of armed men before anyone could even react or CQCed a squadron of invisible super soldiers in a close quarters elevator or anything.

No wait, that did happen.

Okay, if you really want me to get into the engineering behind that lightning strike, we don't know how that thing works. It could NOT work the way you think it is. We don't see one piece of lightning like we do in the sky. We see a bunch of different pieces of lightning that actually constantly changes direction. Lightning chooses its path, it does not go back and recreate a new path unless it's in a barrier. Where I'm getting at is that we don't know how Volgan's power actually works, if he actually has to generate a field and the field has to expand to a certain radius for the lighting to actually go there.

Volgan = V

Lightning = ~

Field = )

TX where T is time and X numerically defines it.

V ~) @ T1

V~~) @ T2

V~~~) @ T3

How do I know this? Because I have messed with teslas before. You know, the electricity in a ball. And because it's in a barrier when you stick your finger in it, that's the only time you see the electrical current change its path.

I really didn't want to go this route, but you can blame it on gameplay mechanics again and put no logic behind the argument or accept my explanation as to why Ocelot seemed slow in the video and why the electricity in Volgan's hand isn't just one constant path but is constantly redirected.

Heck, you can say the bullets messed up the weird barrier and that's how it got redirected. You know why? Because electricity only conducts to something that is grounded, so it doesn't make sense that those bullets are redirecting the electricity but rather they are probably messing up a barrier that carriers, concentrates and directs the electricity where Volgan is pointing it at. Again we don't know how those powers work.

As for the ABC comparison, I fail to see how comparing ocelot to Hawkeye makes any sense. They both do not relate in fighting styles in any kind of way whatsoever. One has pretty much perfect aim, the other doesn't.

Here's that video I promised. Again, hawkeye managed to load up 6 bullets into Wolverine when Wolverine was in arms length from and lunged at him. I need to reread the scan to make sure though. But Hawkeye has some good H2H skills on top of his perfect aim and accuracy.

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#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

Hawkeye is accurate but unless he can kill a platoon of armed men before anyone can even react, he's not capable of drawing his bow, pulling back an arrow, and firing before Big Boss dives.

it really didn't slow down to me, I remember being able to roll out of the way of his lightning in the game.

Game mechanics. If we count those Hawkeye isn't even capable of harming Big Boss at all so this debate is over.

He fanned the gun, he wouldn't be able to do the same with a normal gun which has a heavy trigger, etc. And in world competitions the quick draw 6 balloon shoot outs are done in milliseconds not 1 second. If Hawkeye had a revolver, and knowing his perfect aiming abilities, he could easily fan a gun and hit all his targets in milliseconds.

Doesn't matter how fast he shoots, it matters how he reacted to lightning being shot at him fast enough to misdirect it's focal point with exact accuracy. Hawkeye is not nearly that fast.

And it's not like he doesn't have good CQC himself. Look how close all these guys were and they had him surrounded.

Big Boss has defeated armed squadrons with his bare hands plenty of times. More than that he's also beaten not-cannon fodder. Hawkeye isn't getting anywhere h2h.

Solid Snake has been captured by getting a gun pointed behind him after fighting sniper wolf,

Sorry, I forgot game characters aren't allowed to have PIS. It's not like 5 minutes after this happened Snake singlehandedly annihilated a group of armed men before anyone could even react or CQCed a squadron of invisible super soldiers in a close quarters elevator or anything.

No wait, that did happen.

I think I proved he can kill a whole Platoon with his standard Gear GUNS!!!

I mean I think I posted this a page back.

This is a stomp in Hawkeye's Favor as both are Visible to each other. If Big Boss had the Stealth Advantage that be something else. He doesn't He is in HE sight and Hawkeye knows his coordinates in his head.