Big Boss VS Taskmaster

Rules:

• Standard Gear
• Morals On/In CHaracter(NO JOBBERING THOUGH)
• Limited Knowledge: Both Watch 1 Min Of The Other Fighting
• Starting: 50 Feet Away & Semi Visible(In A Nightclub With Strobe Lights)
• No Civilians

Song Playing On The Club Speakers:

Goddamn the Snake love is real today. I'll need to think about this one for a bit, but I think BB could take it by stealth.

bump

Boss.

These Snake threads are wearing me out.

@beaconofstrength:

Taskmaster

Big Boss own him like a Boss.

@beaconofstrength: @sirfizzwhizz: @highaccuser: Reasons?

@lukehero: Boss is faster, hits harder, better durability/pain tolerance, and has stealth (I honestly can't remember Taskmaster ever dealing with stealth by someone notable, although I may be missing something). Tony is only packing skill and overall agility.

@lukehero: Skill is the biggest factor in any fight and Tony has that.

@beaconofstrength: Cool.

@highaccuser:Skill is the biggest factor in any fight

If you are saying between 2 about the same stated/powered characters OK then.

maybe it should be stated Skill is only good in h2h for Tony. Big Boss has Stealth skill which is way better in this fight.

bump

Big Boss should win.

Taskmaster wins on paper only. He should be more skilled, but he just isn't. Some of this is due to terrible jobbing though.

@tparks: No Jobbering is in the OP

I demand more Revolver Ocelot threads.

@lukehero: I know, but with a character who has been beaten by so many characters, it's a tough call to say what is jobbing. Losing to Deadpool because Deadpool did the funky chicken, while TaskMaster was owning beforehand is definite jobbing. Getting hit by a taxi in the middle of a fight with DareDevil was some pretty serious jobbing.

There are some other instances though where we could argue there was a pinch of jobbing, but the end result was still not bad writing. Instances with Moon Knight and Cap were pretty well written, and I've seen them both called jobbing.

That's basically what I meant. Even when Taskmaster is fighting great, he still loses in the end, even without jobbing. Even while he is fighting great, he's still not showing off the level of skill he should have. He fights evenly with characters like Cap and Moon Knight, which is amazing, but he should be fighting a step above them given his ability.

@tparks: That's because knowledge isn't skill. At the end of the day guys like Captain America and Daredevil are always going to be better fighters than Taskmaster. Taskmaster tends to get pretty overrated actually, he isn't a top tier in Marvel.

Well to be fair I don't recall cap ever beating taskmaster. There was there first fight where taskmaster took the upper hand but ran away, another fight in caps book where taskmaster was winning pretty easily but he had a bunch of weapons (sword, shield, explosive arrows) and Steve was unarmed (so I think Steve was at a pretty big disadvantage) and Steve surprised him with his energy shield and they both fell off the bridge before the fight could finish, and another fight in battle scars which was off panel.

Matt has beaten taskmaster twice but through tactics and not martial arts skill.

@nickzambuto: I agree. It's just dumb that he isn't written as a top tier. He can replicate every move he sees, so he should obviously be an amazing martial artist given the things he's seen (which he technically is I guess), and he should have the knowledge of an amazing fighter, as he not only can replicate these moves, he makes a living as an instructor of these martial arts. That makes me assume he has some sort of knowledge of combat, if he trains combatants. This logic clearly doesn't work though, as it doesn't add up when we see his fights.

To be fair, his fights with Cap and DareDevil were pretty even. One could almost argue he was the superior fighter in his fight with Cap. He stomps Deadpool, until jobbing takes effect. So he's not completely hopeless.

@jashro44: Those are the fights I was referring to, where I was saying they were, for the most part, pretty well written. The DareDevil one I recall was pretty great, up until TM gets hit by a cab or something like that, which I guess isn't necessarily jobbing, it's DareDevil using tactics like you said, I just didn't like the way it ended. lol. I wanted a real end to the fight.

@ghostravage: ???

Yea I can see how that might be disappointing.

@beaconofstrength: Taskmaster's stealth abilities go from going completely unseen and unheard by Maria Hill during a bath time while leaving a message through vapor on her mirror to be completely undetectable by pressure sensitive floors on the Avengers Mansion designed by Tony Stark. Big Boss is not faster and if you're talking about his fight with a young Ocelot it isn't that great. Durability and striking force are almost equal... I don't know why mentioning them.

A serious Taskmaster has enough feats to compete.

@ghostravage: I'm talking about how Taskmaster deals with stealth, not how stealthy he is. I still believe Big Boss is faster, but Taskmaster has the overall agility advantage. And no, Taskmaster doesn't hit as hard as Boss, and he definitely isn't as durable.

I'm fully aware of Taskmaster's abilities, I just find Big Boss better.

@beaconofstrength: I haven't seen anyone sneaking on Taskmaster and he's pretty stealthy himself. You're free to believe whatever you want mate but affirming something implies it's actually factual when it really isn't. I never said Taskmaster hits as hard, not sure why you think the difference is so big if Taskmaster still one shot'd Spider-Woman who is a 7 toner and he doesn't need to be a tank... We're talking about street levelers here, he should be durable enough and the fact he was pretty much ran over by a SUV and was completely fine would suggest he's not completely overpowered there. He also survived being completely blown up by Dr. Doom during Siege, not that i think he will be harmed anywhere near that point in this match not only because Big Boss can't fathom to harm people up that point by himself but the fact Taskmaster can still rely on his gear to block his attacks like he has done to others like Deadpool, Captain America, Captain America, Bucky Barnes, Warrior's Three to mention some.

Taskmaster still has the skill application on his side too and Big Boss has no answer for Taskmaster's complete download of skills for sure.

Duarbility and Strength are clearly Big Boss' edge. I'd think speed is probably similar, but I would still think this is still Big Boss' edge too, although this is maybe not as clear. I do think that Snake being portrayed as being able to match Frank Jaeger in speed in MGS:PO shows him as being faster then TaskMaster.

Maybe there is some feat from TaskMaster I'm not aware of, but I can't imagine there are very many appearances of TaskMaster I haven't read yet. Could be something I forgot maybe. :/

I'm not saying TaskMaster is too slow to tag Big Boss, because TaskMaster has taken on characters with similar speeds, but I think I would argue he himself is not as fast as Big Boss.

@ghostravage: Has anyone noteworthy tried to use stealth against Taskmaster? I've been digging through my scans and haven't found any. I never tried to make it come off as factual, but stealth is a completely viable option for victory. Taskmaster' durability has always come off a bit inconsistent, considering he was on his knees coughing blood after a clean hit from Cap. Big Boss should have no issue being able to harm Tony, considering he had Volgin on his knees coughing up blood after a fistfight. And that's if the battle comes down to a pure fistfight, which it won't. Taskmaster's gear can help him, sure, but Big Boss' gear is just as useful, too.

And Big Boss still has the stealth advantage, which Tony may not have an answer for. And just because Tony can replicate Boss' moves, doesn't make it an insta-win. Big boss has fought and bested a hypersonic soldier equipped with hypnosis and pre-cog and still managed to win, despite all the odds stacked against him.

IMO Big Boss is faster becuase of two examples. One is Null. Null was a super speedster for real, with a sword, and Big Boss took him down with H2H. Another is Old Snake went to attack a super old Big Boss, and was outdone easy enough, even though Old snake still showed the level of speeds he had in that game. This is Boss in his prime, not decrepit.

So yes, Boss is faster to me. HOWEVER I cannot recall any real strength nor durability feats that make me think "Damn he has that edge" truth be told.

Also while Taskmaster has all that "Skill" he has no class in tactics. As stated already this proven Tony's downfall when not jobbing. Big boss is the inventor of super genius tactics lol. Not to mention the stealth edge in this battlefield. He should win IMO as well.

@beaconofstrength:

Has anyone noteworthy tried to use stealth against Taskmaster? I've been digging through my scans and haven't found any. I never tried to make it come off as factual, but stealth is a completely viable option for victory. Taskmaster' durability has always come off a bit inconsistent, considering he was on his knees coughing blood after a clean hit from Cap. Big Boss should have no issue being able to harm Tony, considering he had Volgin on his knees coughing up blood after a fistfight. And that's if the battle comes down to a pure fistfight, which it won't. Taskmaster's gear can help him, sure, but Big Boss' gear is just as useful, too.

And Big Boss still has the stealth advantage, which Tony may not have an answer for. And just because Tony can replicate Boss' moves, doesn't make it an insta-win. Big boss has fought and bested a hypersonic soldier equipped with hypnosis and pre-cog and still managed to win, despite all the odds stacked against him.

Nobody has eve tried to sneak on him, that's the point. I wasn't talking about stealth but the fact you mentioned all Big Boss's advantages as if all of them were factual when most of them can be easily argued. He received a sucker knee hit right on the stomach and all it did was cough some blood and he still get up and fought Bucky head on. How is that a bad showing if Steve has an insane striking strength and enough force on his limbs to even throw his shield at Mach 34... Even going by that Taskmaster actually harmed Thor with a shield Bash if we're going to use Siege as a whole. Big Boss won't have the same case-scenario here where Taskmaster will be paying attention only to him. Regardless, what makes Tony the threat he is not his copying ability but the fact he can use all his fighting styles at the same time creating a fighting style almost no one can counter feat-wise.

Now now now... From where did you get that Soldier was hypersonic... I need to hear this. Not only because it sounds ridiculous but the fact i need to see if Big Boss used situational factors to deal with him or characterization exploitation to get the upper hand or whatever. By now i'm certainly a lot more skeptical than before.

@ghostravage: The soldier I was referring to was Gene. He was equipped with pre-cog, hypnosis, effortlessly blitz-stomped an earlier version of Grey Fox, moved so fast he appeared to be standing still and it looked like bullets were phasing through him, threw his knives faster than bullets, and more. Big Boss fought him a completely open area and beat him fair and square. Gene even tried blizing him with his teleportation-like ability, in desperation, only for it to fail and him getting momentarily worn out. And this was done after previously going through other enemies and an intense torture session.

Happened during MGS:PO. Gene was easily one of Boss' most deadly foes.

The more and more I hear and see of Snake and Big Boss is they are the embodiment of the acronym PIS.

@eisenfauste: Metal Gear clearly has a different definition of "peak human" than Marvel and DC comic books do. Krillin is a peak human but I don't see people calling his feats PIS. People just need to realize that rather than everything being PIS, Snake and Big Boss are both simply two of the most powerful peak humans in fiction. I mean is that really so hard to believe? It has to be SOMEONE so it might as well be them. The more comics I read the more overrated I find comic book characters to be, I mean I'm going through Frank Miller's Daredevil run and Brubaker's Captain America run, and I see the usual antagonists for these top tier characters being guys like Gladiator and Crossbones and oneshot mafia bosses who never appeared in another comic because they sucked. I really have no doubt currently that Solid Snake is much more skilled than most comic book characters because they need decades of stories and dozens of appearances every year to get good feats, whereas Snake who has appeared in three whole games, spent those three games fighting guys like friggin Psycho Mantis and Vamp. Clearly, he's meant to be a more remarkable fighter. There's a reason they call him "the man who makes the impossible, possible."

@nickzambuto: I'll eat my hat the day a peak human can somehow beat a hypersonic pre-cog steroid opponent with skill and it not be called plot. By feats they can aim dodge at best besides the one high end feat of hypersonic dodging and yet they still don't have a problem fighting people who are "hypersonic"

@ghostravage: Bath time is when Maria Hill would be at her LEAST alert, right next to when she's asleep. Not that sneaking up on Maria Hill is even a good measuring stick in the first place, she's hardly even comparable to characters like Raiden and Meryl, who are bottom tiers in the MGS series. Big Boss has eavesdropped on a character with precognition, his approach was so subtle that she didn't even register him, despite the fact that she could sense danger well in advance and usually knew when people were coming before they entered the room. Big Boss was the one person she didn't detect. Big Boss has even snuck through a crowd of people and placed his gun directly against Gene's skull without Gene noticing; that literally proves Big Boss is completely capable of using stealth against Taskmaster, because not only is Gene a stealth master in his own right just like Taskmaster, but he was a metahuman with ESP who could sense danger. His senses are obviously superior to Taskmaster's. Don't even get me started on The End, that character could literally talk to the forest, and he fought Big Boss in -- you guessed it -- a forest. Big Boss hunted him down and put a gun to his head without being detected and stole his equipment. Big Boss can sneak through the environment so subtlety, that the environment can not distinguish him. So through what methods do you think Taskmaster will be able to counter stealth? Because countering Big Boss's stealth clearly isn't as simple as you might think it is, he's one of the best sneakers in fiction.

@eisenfauste: Clearly you aren't that well versed on MGS. That's okay, I don't expect everyone to be for obvious reasons, but then you shouldn't go around and make direct statements like that and act like you know them for a fact. Big Boss is a bullet timer, unlike 90% of comic book peak humans, he can actually react to multiple bullets, fired from behind his head, at close range, with no warning at all besides the actual sound of the shots themselves, and he can dodge them simply by tilting his upper body. That is speed. Compared to average men, and by average men I mean CIA spec ops soldiers, he is nearly imperceptible, at one point in Peace Walker he found himself surrounded by eight soldiers with assault rifles pointed at him, and he was able to use his CQC skills to defeat every single one of them before they even had the CHANCE to pull their triggers, THEN in anticipation of his capture (there were more soldiers then just the eight immediately surrounding him), he sprinted over to their boss and snatched the card key right off of her shirt so fast that neither she nor anyone else even noticed him do it. He later used the key to just walk out of his cell and continue the mission.

Then we have Null, a character who can cut bullets right in half with his sword, a character who cuts down squads of soldiers and appears as nothing more than a black blur. He was almost a match for Big Boss in their first encounter, but ultimately in their second encounter when Big Boss was ready, he ended up beating Null to within an inch of his life with his bare hands. Then we have Gene, the guy who speedblitzed Null and could even speedblitz a telepath faster than his thoughts could reach her. HE is hypersonic, and he was the real rival to Big Boss. Now Big Boss didn't beat him to within an inch of his life like he did Null, he went all the way this time and literally beat him completely to death.

So are Big Boss's feats extraordinary? Yes, but I don't see why they're PIS, they're pretty par for course in the MGS series, Solid Snake does all the same things too, and even Raiden got on that level towards the end of MGS2. Everything Gene had in speed, Colonel Volgin had in strength, and Big Boss beat him too. So what's inconsistent? Seriously, there's a reason they call him the greatest soldier of the 20th century, and we find out in MGS4 that the main motivation of the franchise's two primary antagonists (Ocelot and Zero) was that they were both huge fanboys of Big Boss but just went about expressing that in conflicting ways.

same result as Taskmaster vs Snake, Taskmaster.

Its more skill than Ki.

If the Snakes are preforming these feats consistently, how is it PIS? Screaming PIS can only get you so far.

Also, I love how you keep calling them peak human, when they're confirmed to be, in canon, meta humans.

bump

@nickzambuto: what he said

Taskmaster, if he isn't jobbing. Yes he's been beat by worse sure, but imo without plot he can actually win just fine.

@monsterstomp: Grr.

Really? people like Daredevil who is "peak Human" yet he flips limos and causally reacts to sniper bullets? Batman who out ran explosions, and kick hulk durable foes with damage shown? maybe peak human Punisher who can take a punch to the face by Spider that sends him flying 4 stories in the air just fine, or how he shoots the web shooters off a actively dodging Spiderman?

C'mon bro :)

^ this too.

@beaconofstrength: Well to be honest even I wouldn't go that far. We both agree that the physical capabilities of MGS characters surpass the capabilities of a peak human in Marvel and DC, but in their own universe, Snake and Boss aren't metahumans. That kinda takes away the whole point, they're supposed to be regular humans who are so highly skilled they can fight metahumans. I don't think soldier genes make them metahumans because the whole theme of MGS1 was that genes don't matter.

@nickzambuto:

Stated in bios like such.

• Stated as, "Snakes infiltration skill are nonpareil, even legendary."
• Snake is stated as, "able to sneak anywhere, and under any circumstances."
• Stated as "unparalleled among his peers at the CIA, and his former unit, the legendary Foxhound organization."
• IQ of a 160 in his younger days, and then IQ of 180 in his prime.
• Stated in bio a "Possessing superior physical abilities."

none of that is "peak Human'. Especially the last part.

@sirfizzwhizz: I would say that they are superhumanly skilled, in a manner of speaking, but not actual metahumans themselves.

Boss takes it. He and his clones have experience of fighting against super fast, agile, strong or unkillable opponents. In this situation stealth skill comes in handy and he don't even have to go cqc on him, just shoot him.

You know who else is Superhuman skilled?

@sirfizzwhizz: F#CK!