Big Boss VS Chris And Leon

Big Boss

Chris Redfield and Leon S. Kennedy

Rules:

• In character.
• Standard gear.
• Random encounter.
• Win by any means.
• They start 50 feet apart.
• Fight takes place here:

Big Boss. Easily.

Jack wrecks

Boss hunts them down for sport.

Big Boss wins

Probably could go either way. Neither Leon or Chris would be easy for him one on one, both of them together make this very difficult. Besides the Boss and Ocelot, this will be the toughest opponents he's ever faced, unless you want to count Frank Jeager too, but they never really had an all out battle.

And if someone doesn't tag @nickzambuto for this thread then the internet is going to explode.

@tparks: You don't think he would have found it. Dude is a bloodhound when sniffing for these threads.

@monsterstomp: His Metal Gear sense has got to be tingling right now. With Resident Evil involved too, he might just be experiencing a temporary overload.

@tparks: Perhaps.

Big Boss gives the D

Big Boss.

I think this has been done before, anyway Boss takes it

Alright, I'll play devil's advocate here. Head-to-head Big Boss is at a big disadvantage, if only because he's facing a two-on-one. Chris is most certainly stronger and just as difficult to put down, and Leon's avoidance abilities put Big Boss in an extremely complicate situation. Certainly Big Boss has faced fast guys, and he's faced agile guys, but there isn't a single character in MGS who Big Boss has faced that can combine the reflexes, acrobatic techniques, and spatial awareness all at the same time needed to become a true master of avoidance like Leon. The guy actually gets tagged less often than Daredevil, his reaction time and mobility puts Nightwing to shame, the only character whom Big Boss has faced that is comparable is Frank Jaeger, but he lacks all of Leon's abilities besides that one. Big Boss was skilled enough to overcome Null's speed and reflexes, but that's because Null had no sense of strategy, no versatility at all, just his sword and his stats. With Leon, Big Boss is facing a man of equal experience, equal tactical awareness. Leon can go from guns to bombs to fists to anything else at the drop of a dime, just like Big Boss can, and with those facts in mind defeating Leon is going to be a much more complicated task than defeating Null.

Leon can run interference against Big Boss while Chris focuses in for the killshot. He's easily a rival marksman to Big Boss, and although John was able to survive a gun duel against Revolver Ocelot, that was an extremely inexperienced Ocelot. It was his natural abilities vs John's experience and technique, against Chris, Big Boss doesn't have that advantage, he's facing a man who can be considered his peer on all fronts. Ocelot used duel revolvers against Big Boss which ended up not being the most efficient choice in the end due to their low ammo capacity, rate of fire, and gigantic reload window, something that he seemingly ended up realizing himself one day because by MGS1 he's seen using only one revolver. Now Chris on the other hand is using a fully-automatic assault rifle, I'd like to see how Big Boss deals with that. True he did face The Boss with her Patriot, but can he really dodge and return fire at the same time? Like I said, Leon can run interference, given his superior avoidance skills to Big Boss he will certainly be a challenge, and then suddenly Chris jumps in as well from a distance at the precise moment he spots Big Boss is open? I don't see how Big Boss can be expected to defeat them both at once, just too much to keep up with, and this environment is hardly stealth friendly.

@nickzambuto:

but there isn't a single character in MGS who Big Boss has faced that can combine the reflexes, acrobatic techniques, and spatial awareness all at the same time needed to become a true master of avoidance like Leon

I guessed Gene somehow now doesn't exist. Gene outclasses Leon in literally everything you listed for Leon. The argument starts to crumble when you realize that Big Boss has faced people wayoutside Leon's class and makes your main strategy lose its weight. Big Boss should have 0 issues tagging Leon, considering he has faster movement speed, reaction speed, combat speed, and just as good awareness. While Chris is very strong and durable (not nearly as durable as Big Boss), he's lacking in speed; Big Boss should simply be able to put a bullet in his head before, or after he decides to sweep up Leon. Like you said, they're comparable marksmen, which I agree with, but Big Boss simply outclasses them in speed, durability, and overall skill. And while the environment isn't the most stealth-friendly environment, Big Boss should still be able to his advantage; the duo has never dealt with stealth on Big Boss' caliber.The only thing the duo really has on Big Boss is the numbers advantage and strength advantage, but that definitely isn't enough to tip the scales.

Nick, while you've helped me a lot with Metal Gear, you undersell Big Boss a lot, when you're debating for other characters you like.

@beaconofstrength: I don't undersell Big Boss, I know his capabilities VERY well. That includes the extent of his abilities, as well as limits. I would say YOU undersell Leon and Chris. Your main argument is that Big Boss has faced characters way outside of Chris and Leon's weight class, but is the same not true in reverse? Are Krauser, Wesker, and Tyrants not good analogues to Null, Gene, and Volgin? Personally though, I wouldn't say those characters are "out of Big Boss's weight class" so to speak because I know that he can use skill and strategy to overcome them... The same way how Chris and Leon can use skill and strategy to overcome the foes you listed for Big Boss. So your point works in reverse as well, Resident Evil isn't the kind of series you can use that argument against because the characters and creatures in it are just as insane as the characters and creatures in Metal Gear.

Now I knew you would bring up Gene, but you missed my point. Being an avoidance master is more about just raw speed, it's that collection of skills I mentioned. Speed, reaction time, acrobatic skill, flexibility, and spatial awareness -- Gene outclasses Leon in one of these categories, that doesn't make him an avoidance master. An avoidance master is someone who's portrayed as rarely, if ever, getting tagged. Guys like Daredevil, Spider-Man, Nightwing, Leon's agility easily puts him in the same tier as these characters. He not only has the physical qualites, but he's also highly skilled in acrobatic techniques, parkour, and ninjutsu, giving him that many more options for avoiding hits and projectiles.

Now my point with all this? If it's a two-on-one, then Leon can run interference against Big Boss, running and gunning while using his dodging skills to stay one step ahead of the soldier. Then, when Chris spots an opening, he goes for the killshot. Big Boss simply isn't strategic enough to keep up with them BOTH, and account for BOTH their plans and moves at the same time by himself. Big Boss IS very strategic... But so are Chris and Leon. Saying he's better than them both combined is too much.

Wait...wassup?

this is a two vs one and while boss is surely above the guys singularly, he does not have the glaring skill, speed or durability advantage you'd need to win a 2vs1 against skilled men.

@nickzambuto: How about we settle this with a CaV, Nick.

It'll be fun.

@beaconofstrength: Why can't we settle it here? The exact post you would make in a CaV thread, you can make in this thread.

@nickzambuto: It takes time for me to make these posts, since I'm lazy. I'd rather settle it in a CaV, so I don't forget about this thread and don't feel rushed. And Nick, you love, doing CaV's, don't you? I'll even let you choose the location.

And I'm still itching for a CaV with someone.

@beaconofstrength: Comic Vine has become too CaV dependent. There is literally *no* difference between this thread and a CaV thread, in fact I rather prefer debating in regular threads since you can just get right to the point and don't feel pressured to be fancy just for votes.

Debate me here... Or DIE.

@nickzambuto:

... Or DIE

Big Boss.

Big Boss.

And Nick, do you like the RE series more than MGS?

@beaconofstrength: itching for a CaV? Big Boss vs Frank Miller Batman?

@nickzambuto: I like CaVs, it's the best way to get a argument seen in unbias way were normal threads is a bunch of wankers or retards who post who they like more often than not.

Then why do you accept them? Hell, you don't finish them anyway.

Shots fired.

@beaconofstrength: Just makes no sense, mate. Even though I'd agree that CV has been too CaV dependent.

........................ :(

@allstarsuperman: New 52 Red Hood is beyond broken. At the time I thought he was still Nightwing level.

:?)

@beaconofstrength: Doesnt Moon Knight have crazy feats as well? I thought he fought a team of Avengers once. And he has beaten Deadpool, right?

Anyway, whatever...I see ifsomeone else wants to do something.

My one and two favorite franchises in general are Metal Gear and Dragon Ball. Neither takes a lead on the other, they both mean so much to me in different ways. Resident Evil USED to be up there as well, but when you don't put out any new, quality material since 2009, some would even argue the last good game was 2005 (although I personally like RE5), you start to slip a little.

My siding with Leon and Chris comes not out of fanship, but that I know their capabilities. I know Big Boss's capabilities as well and saying he can take these two highly trained and experienced soldiers at the same time by himself, in an environment like this, is just too much.

Oh he mad.

@nickzambuto: Calm down? I'm calm! I'm calm!

*Nickz gets up to run*

Whoa! Hey! Whoooooo! I am waaay too unstable for that bullsh%t. Stop all the goddamn movement! Everybody stop moving!

Didn't expect to hear Dragon Ball lol, good pick though since I grew up with DBZ. I pretty much have to agree wholeheartedly about where the RE series has been since that time. I mean, I really enjoyed RE5, beaten it like 6 times to get the platinum trophy, but I really wish Capcom would revitalize the series again the way RE4 did. Oh well.

Anyway, I don't see why Big Boss couldn't take the win here with difficulty. You might disagree, I don't see why, but you did state that you were playing devil's advocate, but BB has been through much worse situations than the one he is facing here. Don't think I'm saying that he is dealing with fodder here, Chris and Leon are formidable foes, but Big Boss's own skill, physical capability, and experience operating in similar environments like this should make him too much for the REbros to deal with imo. Giving Snake his standard gear just gives him even more of an advantage and I'd argued that Chris definitely isn't stronger than Snake, but I don't want to drag out my own arguments. Not even gonna lie, you probably know, but I'm a BB fanboy lol but for a good reason. :p

You know... I'd bet if this was Solid Snake you would be all over him lol.

@cooljammy18: There's that argument again, Big Boss has been in more dangerous situations, Leon and Chris aren't the most dangerous foes he's faced. Doesn't that argument work the same way in reverse? Big Boss is a far cry from thinks like Tyrants, Alexia Ashford, Jack Krauser, Albert Wesker, and super soldier armies. I mean yeah he could probably beat all of those characters through skill... but then so could Leon and Chris for Big Boss's enemies. So what does that prove?

And Big Boss has no experience operating in similar environments to this. The battlefield is the opposite of stealth friendly and provides very little cover that can actually stand up to gunfire. As for the scenario himself, he's never proven that he can take two highly skilled soldiers of a similar caliber to himself at the same time. Big Boss is going to need some seriously crazy bullet dodging feats in order to survive this battle, and unfortunately as fast as he is, this scenario is just too much.