#1 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

beyonder doom should take this pretty easily.

#3 Posted by King Saturn (223716 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder Doom is a bit beyond Emperor Joker... both essentially can Warp Reality... but Beyonder can do it to a Greater Scale.

#4 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... tough one. I think Myx is actually beyond Beyonder simply because some of his feats include destroying everything, using his powers in the real world, etc. However Joker didn't use any of those abilities; so I think Doom Beyonder wins this.

#5 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

Hmm... tough one. I think Myx is actually beyond Beyonder simply because some of his feats include destroying everything, using his powers in the real world, etc. However Joker didn't use any of those abilities; so I think Doom Beyonder wins this.

world's funnest is non canon, and even then it's debatable.

#6 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

Hmm... tough one. I think Myx is actually beyond Beyonder simply because some of his feats include destroying everything, using his powers in the real world, etc. However Joker didn't use any of those abilities; so I think Doom Beyonder wins this.

world's funnest is non canon, and even then it's debatable.

Actually it is; and there's two main lines of evidence for that.

The first is Hypertime. Hypertime connected all the universes together; and Myx referenced it (in continuity) as being something he could affect.

The second is the one I find more compelling:


http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/mxy_alternate1.jpg.html?
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/mxy_alternate2.jpg.html?

Here you can see Myx is able to travel between comicbook dimensions at will using a comicbook hub.

Between Hypertime, the Hub, and the normal times that Myx travels between dimensions (such as bringing Paul Dini from the real world to the comicbook world, or bringing a comicbook issue from the real world to the comicbook world to warn Superman, etc.) it becomes clear that it's all in-continuity for Myx because he travels between the realities. So it's all in-continuity for Myx.

#7 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

thanks, im really glad to see that WF is canon to mxy, he's also apparently impossible man in marvel :).

#8 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

thanks, im really glad to see that WF is canon to mxy, he's also apparently impossible man in marvel :).

No problem; it's a wierd situation where he's the only character who uses that as connon. And I love the Impossible Man thing with him; and it makes sense that Myx would want to mess around with the FF.

#9 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4781 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom easily

#10 Posted by NeonGameWave (7685 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder Doom wins.

#11 Posted by Bronze_Surfer (2959 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasent Secret Wars 1 beyonder weaker than secret wars 2 beyonder? Because I thought doom got the power when beyonder was fighting Galactus which he should have been able to curbstomp if he is above LT.

#12 Posted by Hyperlight (5373 posts) - - Show Bio

are we really saying that cosmic cubes are superior to 5th dimensional imps?! im not doubting u guys but everyone else says myx is like one of the best reality warpers ever

i was coming in and gonna say joker but i guess not...

#13 Posted by New_World_Order (12318 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

thanks, im really glad to see that WF is canon to mxy, he's also apparently impossible man in marvel :).

Its non canon, has always been non-canon.

The reason for that is a bit different, Elseworld comics, like World Funniest, was orginally written with the sole intention of it not having any bearing whatsoever on a canon publication. Yes even Canon Mxy could likely have travelled through dimension, although the concept of hypertime has been long thrown out of DC continuity.

Elseworld is where you take a character, put him in a sitution that it would never actually be in, and write a story. A writer writing such story gets a lot of leeway on what he wants to write, what he wants to change essentially not worrying about how that would affect the ongoing chronology.

Dc did actively address few elseworld stories as being canon during Final Crisis, but that included only a handful of stories that encompass 51 realities. There are of course above 200 elseworld issues so they cant all be canonised.

World Funniest has neither been referred to after the point, nor is there any evidence that DC writers wanted to canonise the event.

So its non-canon despite it being plausible that story could have played out in a canon verse.

#15 Edited by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer said:

@rpottage:

thanks, im really glad to see that WF is canon to mxy, he's also apparently impossible man in marvel :).

Its non canon, has always been non-canon.

The reason for that is a bit different, Elseworld comics, like World Funniest, was orginally written with the sole intention of it not having any bearing whatsoever on a canon publication. Yes even Canon Mxy could likely have travelled through dimension, although the concept of hypertime has been long thrown out of DC continuity.

Elseworld is where you take a character, put him in a sitution that it would never actually be in, and write a story. A writer writing such story gets a lot of leeway on what he wants to write, what he wants to change essentially not worrying about how that would affect the ongoing chronology.

Dc did actively address few elseworld stories as being canon during Final Crisis, but that included only a handful of stories that encompass 51 realities. There are of course above 200 elseworld issues so they cant all be canonised.

World Funniest has neither been referred to after the point, nor is there any evidence that DC writers wanted to canonise the event.

So its non-canon despite it being plausible that story could have played out in a canon verse.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that in canon it does show that Myx has access to all alternate realities; and non-cannon for comics simply means alternate reality. In order for it to even be possible that it isn't cannon; there has to be multiple Myx's; but that would require multiple 5th dimensions and multiple hubs between the universes. And it's never shown that those are true. In fact the only time there are multiple Myx's is when he splits himself.

It just wouldn't work; it's like saying that those stories are non-cannon for the Presence or that the animated Marvel shows are non-cannon for TOAA. It requires them to take place in completely seperate omniverses with completely seperate characters; which didn't happen. While Hypertime has been retconned; it did exist and still exists as a backdoor way of showing that they all exist as part of the same omniverse and multi-verse. So the fact that Myx has referenced such things demonstrates that he's the same Myx.

#17 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@killemall said:

@rolldestroyer said:

@rpottage:

thanks, im really glad to see that WF is canon to mxy, he's also apparently impossible man in marvel :).

Its non canon, has always been non-canon.

The reason for that is a bit different, Elseworld comics, like World Funniest, was orginally written with the sole intention of it not having any bearing whatsoever on a canon publication. Yes even Canon Mxy could likely have travelled through dimension, although the concept of hypertime has been long thrown out of DC continuity.

Elseworld is where you take a character, put him in a sitution that it would never actually be in, and write a story. A writer writing such story gets a lot of leeway on what he wants to write, what he wants to change essentially not worrying about how that would affect the ongoing chronology.

Dc did actively address few elseworld stories as being canon during Final Crisis, but that included only a handful of stories that encompass 51 realities. There are of course above 200 elseworld issues so they cant all be canonised.

World Funniest has neither been referred to after the point, nor is there any evidence that DC writers wanted to canonise the event.

So its non-canon despite it being plausible that story could have played out in a canon verse.

The problem with that line of reasoning is that in canon it does show that Myx has access to all alternate realities; and non-cannon for comics simply means alternate reality. In order for it to even be possible that it isn't cannon; there has to be multiple Myx's; but that would require multiple 5th dimensions and multiple hubs between the universes. And it's never shown that those are true. In fact the only time there are multiple Myx's is when he splits himself.

It just wouldn't work; it's like saying that those stories are non-cannon for the Presence or that the animated Marvel shows are non-cannon for TOAA. It requires them to take place in completely seperate omniverses with completely seperate characters; which didn't happen. While Hypertime has been retconned; it did exist and still exists as a backdoor way of showing that they all exist as part of the same omniverse and multi-verse. So the fact that Myx has referenced such things demonstrates that he's the same Myx.

1. actually there have been multiple mxy(s)

2. there aren't multiple omniverses

3. hypertime doesn't exist in new 52 but if you do know a reference to it in the new 52 id be really glad to hear it.

im not sure who's side im on here, im going to wait for killemall, to see what he has to say.

#18 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

1) The only time there was multiple Myx's was hen Myx split into two. If you're referring to alternate versions; then that's not really evidence since we're debating whether they're alternate versions or the same one.

2) I know there aren't; that was kind of my point.

3) It doesn't need to exist in the New-52. The point is it did exist and was referenced by Myx which is one of the lines of reasoning explaining that the alternate versions are cannon for him. Retconning it now doesn't really change anything sine if you can demonstrate that everything was cannon for Myx then the fact that Hyperspace is now gone doesn't really prevent everything from having been cannon for him. It just means he can't use that method to get back to those universes (those as stated he's done so in other ways as well).

#19 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

1) The only time there was multiple Myx's was hen Myx split into two. If you're referring to alternate versions; then that's not really evidence since we're debating whether they're alternate versions or the same one.

2) I know there aren't; that was kind of my point.

3) It doesn't need to exist in the New-52. The point is it did exist and was referenced by Myx which is one of the lines of reasoning explaining that the alternate versions are cannon for him. Retconning it now doesn't really change anything sine if you can demonstrate that everything was cannon for Myx then the fact that Hyperspace is now gone doesn't really prevent everything from having been cannon for him. It just means he can't use that method to get back to those universes (those as stated he's done so in other ways as well).

1. no there are multiple versions of mxy, i know for sure there is mxy of earth one and mxy of earth two. which makes them alternate versions

2. my bad i misunderstood you here

3. i generally agree with this, but id like to hear killemall's response.

#20 Edited by Bo88gdan (4393 posts) - - Show Bio

beyonder doom

#21 Posted by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

The problem with that line of reasoning is that in canon it does show that Myx has access to all alternate realities;

Yes never diagreed with that part, but all this does is show that Mxy doing something that was shown in World Funniest is possible in a canon event, not that the feat itself was actually done in a canon event.

No it doesnt and thats where i disagree.

Canon means continuity, a issue is consider canon when it is clearly written with the intention of that even, having an effect on future stories. For example. Crisis on Infinite Earth is canon because that event affects what happens in the future. Every Superman solo issue is canon, because anything happen to Superman in that story does affect Superman in subsequent stories.

None of the Elseworld title were canon because they were clearly written not to have any impact whatsoever on the ongoing DC universe.

This matters because once a story is written such that its becomes a part of DC official history, writer have to be mindful of what they do, because anything they change will likely have ramification for the future (unless you do a retcon which writers dont like).

I can site you few examples, Top Cow company has no mention of having any alternate reality counterpart of any character. Yet there are a couple of Marvel and Top Cow character, there are 2 Hulk and Darkness Crossover that i know of, there is 1 wolverine and Witchblade crossover, those are non canon to Top Cow verse, for a simple reason, it was never written such that any event that happens in those issue would have any impact in future stories.

World Funniest is the same.


None of the Elseworld issues where actually meant to be alternate realities, in fact while we have over 200 elseworld comics, before Final Crisis, and it has been re-iterated twice during Infinite Crisis as well as Zero Hour, that DC actually has only 1 universe after COIE. While alternate realities were created for a small amount of time those realities always collapsed before the story arc finish.

It was only after Infinite Crisis that the action of Alex Luthor brought back 51 other realities, and it was Final Crisis where we actually got to see what those other realities were.

So what i am trying to say is, its not about having multiple counterpart, its about having done a feat, in a series that was ment to be more of a joke, humor, or writer given leeway on how to writer a new character. Batman beating Superman during The Dark Knight Return has never been stated to be an alternate reality, its just a non canon issue where a writer wanted to writer about an old Batman in a univese where Superman became a Government lapdog.

It just wouldn't work; it's like saying that those stories are non-cannon for the Presence or that the animated Marvel shows are non-cannon for TOAA. It requires them to take place in completely seperate omniverses with completely seperate characters; which didn't happen.


Sorry man dont really get where you are getting at.

Not really, my point was it doesnt matter if its the same Mxy or a different version, in fact, the whole point of Elseworld comics was to have same character with a slight difference, like same Superman being born on Russia, same Batman being Old, Same Superman being a government lapdog, etc.

That should change the fact that the story were essentially written with an intention of it never to affect Dc actuality, as every Elseworld titles are written. Dc did not even have alternate realities, yet we had a bunch of Elseworld titles, so its not alternate realities, but a story which was meant to be a stand alone story, with nothing happening there ever having anything to do with canon, ongoing, established chronology of any character.

Thus the feat performed by Mxy in world funniest is non-canon, because the issue was never written to be a part of DC chronology, just like every other Elseworld issues.

@rolldestroyer:My reply is up not sure what you think of it :)

#22 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall:

None of the Elseworld issues where actually meant to be alternate realities, in fact while we have over 200 elseworld comics, before Final Crisis, and it has been re-iterated twice during Infinite Crisis as well as Zero Hour, that DC actually has only 1 universe after COIE. While alternate realities were created for a small amount of time those realities always collapsed before the story arc finish.

It was only after Infinite Crisis that the action of Alex Luthor brought back 51 other realities, and it was Final Crisis where we actually got to see what those other realities were.


i think this is the strongest argument you made regarding WF being non-canon and i agree with this since WF was written in 2000 which means there was only one universe in the entire DC making it a non-canon elseworld rather than an alternate reality.

though id like to point out a possible reference to WF, remember in WF when darkseid was dying and there was a paper stating Mxy+Bat mite= anti life? then in the emperor joker story when joker absorbed most of Mxy's power darkseid himself stated that joker "stumbled upon which was rightfully mine, i refer to the anti life equation" that was the quote IIRC. i just wanted to point that out which does raise an interesting point. but i still see that your argument is stronger than mine.

#23 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: See that just doesn't make sense. Either it is an alternate reality or it isn't.

If it's an alternate reality; then what I pointed out about Myx stands. If it's not an alternate rality in the DC-verse; then it has to be a completely different verse. Not just universe; but a completely different multi-verse and Omniverse since it means that it cannot be cannon for The Presence. But you can't have two omniverses.

Let me put it this way; in order for it to not be canon for Myx; it means that those stories can't have any place within the Omniverse, and that just doesn't really make sense to me.

#24 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@killemall:

See that just doesn't make sense. Either it is an alternate reality or it isn't.

If it's an alternate reality; then what I pointed out about Myx stands. If it's not an alternate rality in the DC-verse; then it has to be a completely different verse. Not just universe; but a completely different multi-verse and Omniverse since it means that it cannot be cannon for The Presence. But you can't have two omniverses.

Let me put it this way; in order for it to not be canon for Myx; it means that those stories can't have any place within the Omniverse, and that just doesn't really make sense to me.

actually the point which convinced me that WF is non-canon is that there weren't alternate universes back then.

the other part doesn't make much sense.

#25 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@killemall:

See that just doesn't make sense. Either it is an alternate reality or it isn't.

If it's an alternate reality; then what I pointed out about Myx stands. If it's not an alternate rality in the DC-verse; then it has to be a completely different verse. Not just universe; but a completely different multi-verse and Omniverse since it means that it cannot be cannon for The Presence. But you can't have two omniverses.

Let me put it this way; in order for it to not be canon for Myx; it means that those stories can't have any place within the Omniverse, and that just doesn't really make sense to me.

actually the point which convinced me that WF is non-canon is that there weren't alternate universes back then.

the other part doesn't make much sense.

See that doesn't make sense saying that there aren't alternate universes. I mean there might not be alternate universes in that one multi-verse; but in order for there to be absolutely no alternate universes at all that would mean that DC and Marvel cannot share the same Omniverse which would require at least two omniverses which of course doesn't make sense.

#26 Edited by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@killemall:

See that just doesn't make sense. Either it is an alternate reality or it isn't.

Firstly no it isnt an alternate reality.

Secondly not sure why it doesnt make sense.

If it's an alternate reality; then what I pointed out about Myx stands. If it's not an alternate rality in the DC-verse; then it has to be a completely different verse.

Not really no. Firstly DC didnt even have a multiverse back them, nor did they have an omniverse 1 universe was all they had.

Secondly, it cant possibly be an alternate reality because they dont have an alternate reality.

Thirdly, it cant be canon, because we know for a fact that Elseworld are not canon. In fact pick up any elseworld comics and look at either page 2 or at the end of the books its clearly written, that those stories are meant to be to see how a writer can writer a story when a character is taken into a different context.

Let me put it this way; in order for it to not be canon for Myx; it means that those stories can't have any place within the Omniverse, and that just doesn't really make sense to me.

Actually my whole argument was directly against this.

World Funniest was meant to be an Elseworld comics. Thats the whole point, its not meant to have any effect whatsoever to DC universe, multiverse or omniverse.

Its meant to be a stand alone comics with no ties to anything whatsoever.

In fact this is how DC themselves define what an elseworld is:

"In Elseworlds, heroes are taken from their usual settings and put into strange times and places--some that have existed, and others that can't, couldn't, or shouldn't exist. The result is stories that make characters who are as familiar as yesterday seem as fresh as tomorrow." © DC Comics

Its taken from here: http://www.comicvine.com/elseworlds/4015-46699/

So its not alternate reality, its not alternate omniverse, its not alternate anything, its writer playing around with the character however they want.

Weird concept i know, but thats just what it is.

#27 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

crisis on infinite earths destroyed all universes thus there was only one universe, there wasn't even a multiverse. what does DC and marvel sharing the same omniverse have to do with this? and any dc and marvel crossover is non-canon except JLA/Avengers which is an exception. i really want it to be canon, believe me, but i can't ignore the facts.

#28 Posted by Strider92 (16027 posts) - - Show Bio

Beyonder Doom

#29 Posted by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

See that doesn't make sense saying that there aren't alternate universes. I mean there might not be alternate universes in that one multi-verse; but in order for there to be absolutely no alternate universes at all that would mean that DC and Marvel cannot share the same Omniverse which would require at least two omniverses which of course doesn't make sense.

Firstly DC and Marvel dont share the same omniverse.

Marvel's omniverse is collection of all realities within marvel, as well as gateways to other companies (which was later added to incorporate crossovers).

Dc omniverse is different, they are not the same. Its 2 different company man.

Secondly, DC has never elluded to having more than one multiverse. Sure you can take Vertigo group as a complete different multiverse, but DC has not once mentioned the idea of having more than 1 multiverse.

#30 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Elseworld coined Hypertime as a way to explain them being alternate realities (that's right in the link itself). So what you're really saying is that it'sa fictional story with no ties to the DC-verse at all; except for the Hypertime it created as a way of explaining how it fit into the DC-verse.

#31 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

crisis on infinite earths destroyed all universes thus there was only one universe, there wasn't even a multiverse. what does DC and marvel sharing the same omniverse have to do with this? and any dc and marvel crossover is non-canon except JLA/Avengers which is an exception. i really want it to be canon, believe me, but i can't ignore the facts.

In order for there to be no other realities at all; it can't share an omniverse.

@rpottage said:

See that doesn't make sense saying that there aren't alternate universes. I mean there might not be alternate universes in that one multi-verse; but in order for there to be absolutely no alternate universes at all that would mean that DC and Marvel cannot share the same Omniverse which would require at least two omniverses which of course doesn't make sense.

Firstly DC and Marvel dont share the same omniverse.

Marvel's omniverse is collection of all realities within marvel, as well as gateways to other companies (which was later added to incorporate crossovers).

Dc omniverse is different, they are not the same. Its 2 different company man.

Secondly, DC has never elluded to having more than one multiverse. Sure you can take Vertigo group as a complete different multiverse, but DC has not once mentioned the idea of having more than 1 multiverse.

They still share the omniverse. The omniverse is a term that covers all possibly realities, universes, multi-verses, etc. Everything shares the same omniverse; Twilight, Buffy, Marvel, DC, and the Foundation series all take place in the same Omniverse; simply in different Universes set in different Multiverses.

#32 Edited by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

by omniverse i assumed you mean the crossovers made by marvel and dc right? which is non-canon.

#33 Posted by XxGin (1311 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom takes this. PR Beyonder made the Living Turbinal seem like a speck.

#34 Edited by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@killemall: Elseworld coined Hypertime as a way to explain them being alternate realities (that's right in the link itself).

Firstly comicvine is actually a wiki its not official word, you cant normally use it as a proof, if you notice the only thing i took from that thread was a official quote by DC itself rather than anything else.

Secondly Hypertime was created for a short time to explain that possible of alternate realities, a concept that got chucked off within a year. Dc no longer as the concept of hypertime to link all elseworld into alternate realities, which makes more sense because when elseworld took place the alternate reality concept did not even exist.

What DC actually did was when they reached Final Crisis, some of the elseworld titles where tied into being an existing alternate realities, there were however only 50 issues from Elseworlds that was used to fill the 50 alternate realities, with Earth 1 as the 51st and Wildstrom universe as the 52 reality.

That doesnt and showed automatically canonise anything that was written at the time to be non canon, unless its 1 of the 50 issues later decided to be canon. Sadly, World Funniest isnt one of them.

So what you're really saying is that it'sa fictional story with no ties to the DC-verse at all;

Exactly, and its not only what i am saying if you look into any elseworld comics, you will see that on the second page as well as the back cover-page.

except for the Hypertime it created as a way of explaining how it fit into the DC-verse.

Its a concept Dc actually ignored some years back, it only existed for about a year, nor was the concept of Hypertime really explained in detail in any of the issue, and i dont recall DC actually publishing a bio. In fact the only bio equivalent DC published was during 52 story arc called the History of DC universe, where again the concept of Hypertime was ignored and it goes on to say once against that multiverse did not exist up until the end of Infinite Crisis.

Then we have a more recent concept which ties some (not all) elseworld stories as alternate realities.

If you want to look at a concept that applied when the comics was published DC didnt have alternate reality.

Its very hard to argue based on a small concept that doesnt even clearly ties in World Funniest as canon, when other 5 official publication shows otherwise (Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Zero Hour as well as The History of DC universe).

#35 Edited by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

by omniverse i assumed you mean the crossovers made by marvel and dc right? which is non-canon.

No.

Omniverse

The Omniverse is the collection of every single universe, multiverse, dimension (alternate or pocket) and realm. This includes not only Marvel Comics, but also DC Comics, Image, Dark Horse, Archie, and every universe ever mentioned or seen (and an infinite amount never mentioned or seen) including our own world. Everything is in the Omniverse, and there is only one Omniverse. DC Comics is an American comic book and related media company. ... Image Comics is an American comic book publisher. ... This article does not cite any references or sources. ... Archie Comics is an American comic book publisher known for its many series featuring the fictional teenage Archie Andrews, Betty Cooper, Veronica Lodge, Reggie Mantle and Forsythe Jughead Jones characters created by Bob Montana. ...

  • Omni is the Latin prefix meaning "all."

The term was coined by Mark Gruenwald in his fan publication, A Treatise in Reality in Comics Literature[2], and was also the name of the fanzine that he published for two issues before being hired by Marvel." "
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Multiverse-%28Marvel-Comics%29

The collection of every single universe, dimension, reality, etc. This includes the real world, as well as the Marvel Universe, the Star Trek Universe, the Image Universe, etc. Omniverse is also the conceptual ensemble of all possible universes, with all possible laws of physics.

More on Marvel.com:

http://marvel.com/universe/Glossary:O#ixzz2P9Ven2k0

#36 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@killemall: Elseworld coined Hypertime as a way to explain them being alternate realities (that's right in the link itself).

Firstly comicvine is actually a wiki its not official word, you cant normally use it as a proof, if you notice the only thing i took from that thread was a official quote by DC itself rather than anything else.

Secondly Hypertime was created for a short time to explain that possible of alternate realities, a concept that got chucked off within a year. Dc no longer as the concept of hypertime to link all elseworld into alternate realities, which makes more sense because when elseworld took place the alternate reality concept did not even exist.

What DC actually did was when they reached Final Crisis, some of the elseworld titles where tied into being an existing alternate realities, there were however only 50 issues from Elseworlds that was used to fill the 50 alternate realities, with Earth 1 as the 51st and Wildstrom universe as the 52 reality.

That doesnt and showed automatically canonise anything that was written at the time to be non canon, unless its 1 of the 50 issues later decided to be canon. Sadly, World Funniest isnt one of them.

So what you're really saying is that it'sa fictional story with no ties to the DC-verse at all;

Exactly, and its not only what i am saying if you look into any elseworld comics, you will see that on the second page as well as the back cover-page.

except for the Hypertime it created as a way of explaining how it fit into the DC-verse.

Its a concept Dc actually ignored some years back, it only existed for about a year, nor was the concept of Hypertime really explained in detail in any of the issue, and i dont recall DC actually publishing a bio. In fact the only bio equivalent DC published was during 52 story arc called the History of DC universe, where again the concept of Hypertime was ignored and it goes on to say once against that multiverse did not exist up until the end of Infinite Crisis.

Then we have a more recent concept which ties some (not all) elseworld stories as alternate realities.

If you want to look at a concept that applied when the comics was published DC didnt have alternate reality.

Its very hard to argue based on a small concept that doesnt even clearly ties in World Funniest as canon, when other 5 official publication shows otherwise (Infinite Crisis, Final Crisis, Zero Hour as well as The History of DC universe).

Of course you also could always look it up and see it's still true. As the writer Mark Waid said, "It's all true."

That doesn't work.

Whether it was for a year or a hundred years; you have to admit that Hypertime was canon for at least a time before they destroyed hypertime. Hypertime was used to connect all stories; it meant that while there were only 52 universes, there were also alternate timelines and such for each of those universes. Hypertime was the excuse to explain things that didn't fit together continuity wise. Mark Waid specifically created it for that purpose; he specifically said it was all true. And DC never retconned it; they simply stopped using it and eventually said in a comic that Booster Gold had been correcting the diverging timelines. Which means while it's not used; it never actually stopped being cannon; and Hypertime's purpose was to make it all real in some fashion.

#37 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage:

i know what an omniverse is, i know that it connects not only all fiction but infinite other potential stories, but i dont see what's the point of this. WF is theoretically within the omniverse but does it make it canon? no

let me give you an example. i can create a story right now in my mind, that story is within the omniverse since this story is a possibility, but does it make it canon to a specific verse? no. do you now understand how omniverse works?

#38 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rolldestroyer: You asked me what I meant by the omniverse; so I explained.

My point is that the Myx stories show him able to travel between the various realities, universes, dimensions, multi-verses, etc.; so that when it's meant to be the same character (and is) and that character can travel there and back using multiple methods and references one of those methods (created specifically by that line of comics), then it is canon for that character.

Your example isn't what we're talking about and doesn't fit. We're not talking about fan fiction; we're talking about DC licensed comics, written by DC writers, involving DC characters, about stories where elements have been referenced in continuity. There's a big difference.

#39 Edited by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

They still share the omniverse. The omniverse is a term that covers all possibly realities, universes, multi-verses, etc. Everything shares the same omniverse; Twilight, Buffy, Marvel, DC, and the Foundation series all take place in the same Omniverse; simply in different Universes set in different Multiverses.


Cool never realized that, i though omniverse was company dependent.

BTW while this definition of omniverse that you picked from marvel.com is correct, and apparently backed up by actual official publication of marvel , the definition normally on wiki's are questionable.

Although in this instance they sharing the same omniverse is correct, thanks for the correction.

#40 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

They still share the omniverse. The omniverse is a term that covers all possibly realities, universes, multi-verses, etc. Everything shares the same omniverse; Twilight, Buffy, Marvel, DC, and the Foundation series all take place in the same Omniverse; simply in different Universes set in different Multiverses.

Cool never realized that, i though omniverse was company dependent.

BTW while this definition of omniverse that you picked from marvel.com is correct, and apparently backed up by actual official publication of marvel , the definition normally on wiki's are questionable.

Although in this instance they sharing the same omniverse is correct, thanks for the correction.

No problem. Many people have debated it before; I've just read their debates in the past. I think the confusion arises because of all the types of verses (Universe, Multiverse, Megaverse, Omniverse).

#41 Posted by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:


No problem. Many people have debated it before; I've just read their debates in the past. I think the confusion arises because of all the types of verses (Universe, Multiverse, Megaverse, Omniverse).

Cheers just checked it, apparently marvel defines Megaverse as being company specific and omniverse being something larger. Seems pretty interesting.

Although in that light, what should on think of Wanda feat of tearing the omniverse to shred? or MJJ nearly destroying entire omniverse?

At least MJJs feat was before the creation of megaverse.. Wanda feat came after..

#42 Posted by rolldestroyer (3508 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@rolldestroyer: You asked me what I meant by the omniverse; so I explained.

My point is that the Myx stories show him able to travel between the various realities, universes, dimensions, multi-verses, etc.; so that when it's meant to be the same character (and is) and that character can travel there and back using multiple methods and references one of those methods (created specifically by that line of comics), then it is canon for that character.

Your example isn't what we're talking about and doesn't fit. We're not talking about fan fiction; we're talking about DC licensed comics, written by DC writers, involving DC characters, about stories where elements have been referenced in continuity. There's a big difference.

WF is a story not an official alternate reality, thus it's not canon for the official mxy character.

#43 Posted by Killemall (18167 posts) - - Show Bio

WF is a story not an official alternate reality, thus it's not canon for the official mxy character.

That's precisely what i believed :)

#44 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

No problem. Many people have debated it before; I've just read their debates in the past. I think the confusion arises because of all the types of verses (Universe, Multiverse, Megaverse, Omniverse).

Cheers just checked it, apparently marvel defines Megaverse as being company specific and omniverse being something larger. Seems pretty interesting.

Although in that light, what should on think of Wanda feat of tearing the omniverse to shred? or MJJ nearly destroying entire omniverse?

At least MJJs feat was before the creation of megaverse.. Wanda feat came after..

Definitely very powerful. I don't know if they were necessarily meant to be that powerful; but the reason why LT is considered so powerful compared to others is in large part because he's omniversal so I think Marvel might have been trying to show Wanda and MJJ as potentially such big threats.

#45 Posted by rpottage (836 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

@rolldestroyer: You asked me what I meant by the omniverse; so I explained.

My point is that the Myx stories show him able to travel between the various realities, universes, dimensions, multi-verses, etc.; so that when it's meant to be the same character (and is) and that character can travel there and back using multiple methods and references one of those methods (created specifically by that line of comics), then it is canon for that character.

Your example isn't what we're talking about and doesn't fit. We're not talking about fan fiction; we're talking about DC licensed comics, written by DC writers, involving DC characters, about stories where elements have been referenced in continuity. There's a big difference.

WF is a story not an official alternate reality, thus it's not canon for the official mxy character.

But the point of Hypertime was that Mark Waid was making it so that it was all real; they were all alternate realities or universes or diverging timelines. Absolutely anything and everything by DC was supposed to be connected by Hypertime; that was the point of it.