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#1 Posted by Beta Ray Bill (1220 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

#2 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta Ray Bill says:

"http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/user/8000/34f5297ef0ba66f4b3ca225078560d11/25946_400.jpg vs
" />http://image.comicvine.com/uploads/item/3000/2350/134159-captain-marvel_400.jpg"

Pretty tough choice man. Jeez.......in the end, I think that Captain Marvel is faster and stronger, so I have to say him.

#3 Posted by Beta Ray Bill (1220 posts) - - Show Bio

yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think

#4 Posted by warlock360 (28064 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel

#5 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta Ray Bill says:

"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"

LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor.

#6 Posted by Beta Ray Bill (1220 posts) - - Show Bio

really come on guys beta fought a herald of galuctus to a stalemate

#7 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."

Yeah, but that's Lord Marvel. Isn't this just Captain Marvel? Cause if it isn't.....Beta loses horribly.

#8 Posted by Beta Ray Bill (1220 posts) - - Show Bio

what can lord marvel do?

#9 Posted by Beta Ray Bill (1220 posts) - - Show Bio

Sparda says:

"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."
Yeah, but that's Lord Marvel. Isn't this just Captain Marvel? Cause if it isn't.....Beta loses horribly."

it is just captain marvel but i'm curious of what lord marvel can do

#10 Posted by Donnieman v5.1 (44323 posts) - - Show Bio

If it's Captain Marvel I say Bill

If it's Lord Marvel I say Marvel

#11 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta Ray Bill says:

"what can lord marvel do?"

He's just as powerful as a Odin Force/ Rune King Thor.

#12 Posted by Beta Ray Bill (1220 posts) - - Show Bio

Sparda says:

"Beta Ray Bill says:
"what can lord marvel do?"
He's just as powerful as a Odin Force/ Rune King Thor."

damn i'm going to make that battle later but this is just norrmal captain marvel

#13 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Donnieman v5.1 says:

"If it's Captain Marvel I say Bill If it's Lord Marvel I say Marvel"

even if its just capt marvel then he still wins. Beta is another thor and marvel is another superman (without the magic weakness) dc is holding the JLA/Avengers crossover to be cannon, in that superman beat the hell out of Thor and if you don't want to go on that then capt. marvel is just as strong and fast as superman and superman can move planets.

Beta Ray Bill says:

"Sparda says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"what can lord marvel do?"
He's just as powerful as a Odin Force/ Rune King Thor."
damn i'm going to make that battle later but this is just norrmal captain marvel"

i made that battle i was a cluster of shit storms i think it came down to a draw or lord marvel trapping rune king Thor in the rock of destiny.

#14 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"Donnieman v5.1 says:
"If it's Captain Marvel I say Bill If it's Lord Marvel I say Marvel"
even if its just capt marvel then he still wins. Beta is another thor and marvel is another superman (without the magic weakness) dc is holding the JLA/Avengers crossover to be cannon, in that superman beat the hell out of Thor and if you don't want to go on that then capt. marvel is just as strong and fast as superman and superman can move planets. Beta Ray Bill says:
"Sparda says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"what can lord marvel do?"
He's just as powerful as a Odin Force/ Rune King Thor."
damn i'm going to make that battle later but this is just norrmal captain marvel"
i made that battle i was a cluster of shit storms i think it came down to a draw or lord marvel trapping rune king Thor in the rock of destiny. "

I absolutely detest that bull about Superman beating Thor. If it was good writing, Thor would've just thrown his light-speed moving hammer through Superman's head.

#15 Posted by The Mighty Thor (7469 posts) - - Show Bio

Sparda says:

"acewasp23 says:
"Donnieman v5.1 says:
"If it's Captain Marvel I say Bill If it's Lord Marvel I say Marvel"
even if its just capt marvel then he still wins. Beta is another thor and marvel is another superman (without the magic weakness) dc is holding the JLA/Avengers crossover to be cannon, in that superman beat the hell out of Thor and if you don't want to go on that then capt. marvel is just as strong and fast as superman and superman can move planets. Beta Ray Bill says:
"Sparda says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"what can lord marvel do?"
He's just as powerful as a Odin Force/ Rune King Thor."
damn i'm going to make that battle later but this is just norrmal captain marvel"
i made that battle i was a cluster of shit storms i think it came down to a draw or lord marvel trapping rune king Thor in the rock of destiny. "
I absolutely detest that bull about Superman beating Thor. If it was good writing, Thor would've just thrown his light-speed moving hammer through Superman's head."

yea i think thor would win agaisnt superman

#16 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Sparda says:

"acewasp23 says:
"Donnieman v5.1 says:
"If it's Captain Marvel I say Bill If it's Lord Marvel I say Marvel"
even if its just capt marvel then he still wins. Beta is another thor and marvel is another superman (without the magic weakness) dc is holding the JLA/Avengers crossover to be cannon, in that superman beat the hell out of Thor and if you don't want to go on that then capt. marvel is just as strong and fast as superman and superman can move planets. Beta Ray Bill says:
"Sparda says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"what can lord marvel do?"
He's just as powerful as a Odin Force/ Rune King Thor."
damn i'm going to make that battle later but this is just norrmal captain marvel"
i made that battle i was a cluster of shit storms i think it came down to a draw or lord marvel trapping rune king Thor in the rock of destiny. "
I absolutely detest that bull about Superman beating Thor. If it was good writing, Thor would've just thrown his light-speed moving hammer through Superman's head."

yeah but its held true by the company's so it has to be accounted for. if it was good writing Galactus would of kicked Krona's A$$.

#17 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel for the win.

Why - because he is stronger, faster, more durable, has the wisdom of Solomon and no weakness to magic (as per arguments with Superman).

#18 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry to harp on about this point, but can any reader of comic vine please show me / tell me where it says or has shown that Thor can throw his hammer at light speed.

A simple fact that we see in all his appearances in comics is that the hammer can be seen when he throws it.

Opponents dodge it as they can see it.

This suggest that he does not throw it anywhere near light speed.

Also, Thor has enhanced reactions and speed. If he was having to catch his hammer, surely he would not be able to see it coming back at light speed and could not catch it (even if the enchantment says to come back to his hand).

Finally, I had believed that his control of the hammer was when he held it. Hence he would throw it, hang on to the handle and this would become flight, as he could then mentally control it's flight path.

However when he has simply thrown the hammer and has no contact with it, it flies like a projectile to it's target, with no course modifications.

Finally, in Marvel objects wishing to travel close to light speed or exceed it enter hyperspace (as Silver Surfer and Gladiator do), so how can the hammer avoid this (as previous statements about the hammer have said that it can travel at 2 x light speed) ?

#19 Posted by Lord Shiva (796 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Sorry to harp on about this point, but can any reader of comic vine please show me / tell me where it says or has shown that Thor can throw his hammer at light speed. A simple fact that we see in all his appearances in comics is that the hammer can be seen when he throws it. Opponents dodge it as they can see it. This suggest that he does not throw it anywhere near light speed. Also, Thor has enhanced reactions and speed. If he was having to catch his hammer, surely he would not be able to see it coming back at light speed and could not catch it (even if the enchantment says to come back to his hand). Finally, I had believed that his control of the hammer was when he held it. Hence he would throw it, hang on to the handle and this would become flight, as he could then mentally control it's flight path. However when he has simply thrown the hammer and has no contact with it, it flies like a projectile to it's target, with no course modifications. Finally, in Marvel objects wishing to travel close to light speed or exceed it enter hyperspace (as Silver Surfer and Gladiator do), so how can the hammer avoid this (as previous statements about the hammer have said that it can travel at 2 x light speed) ? "

As far as I know, Thor doesn't throw his Mjolnir at light speed. Once he throws Mjolnir, the magical properties of the hammer allows him to travel through space at warp-speeds.

Oddly enough, I read a thread about three weeks ago that states that Thor can use Mjolnir to travel several times the speed of light.

#20 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shiva says:

"The_Creator says:
"Sorry to harp on about this point, but can any reader of comic vine please show me / tell me where it says or has shown that Thor can throw his hammer at light speed. A simple fact that we see in all his appearances in comics is that the hammer can be seen when he throws it. Opponents dodge it as they can see it. This suggest that he does not throw it anywhere near light speed. Also, Thor has enhanced reactions and speed. If he was having to catch his hammer, surely he would not be able to see it coming back at light speed and could not catch it (even if the enchantment says to come back to his hand). Finally, I had believed that his control of the hammer was when he held it. Hence he would throw it, hang on to the handle and this would become flight, as he could then mentally control it's flight path. However when he has simply thrown the hammer and has no contact with it, it flies like a projectile to it's target, with no course modifications. Finally, in Marvel objects wishing to travel close to light speed or exceed it enter hyperspace (as Silver Surfer and Gladiator do), so how can the hammer avoid this (as previous statements about the hammer have said that it can travel at 2 x light speed) ? "
As far as I know, Thor doesn't throw his Mjolnir at light speed. Once he throws Mjolnir, the magical properties of the hammer allows him to travel through space at warp-speeds. Oddly enough, I read a thread about three weeks ago that states that Thor can use Mjolnir to travel several times the speed of light. "

Thor can fly at speeds enabling him to "overtake space vessels", but I have never seen him access hyperspace with it.

#21 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Lord Shiva says:
"The_Creator says:
"Sorry to harp on about this point, but can any reader of comic vine please show me / tell me where it says or has shown that Thor can throw his hammer at light speed. A simple fact that we see in all his appearances in comics is that the hammer can be seen when he throws it. Opponents dodge it as they can see it. This suggest that he does not throw it anywhere near light speed. Also, Thor has enhanced reactions and speed. If he was having to catch his hammer, surely he would not be able to see it coming back at light speed and could not catch it (even if the enchantment says to come back to his hand). Finally, I had believed that his control of the hammer was when he held it. Hence he would throw it, hang on to the handle and this would become flight, as he could then mentally control it's flight path. However when he has simply thrown the hammer and has no contact with it, it flies like a projectile to it's target, with no course modifications. Finally, in Marvel objects wishing to travel close to light speed or exceed it enter hyperspace (as Silver Surfer and Gladiator do), so how can the hammer avoid this (as previous statements about the hammer have said that it can travel at 2 x light speed) ? "
As far as I know, Thor doesn't throw his Mjolnir at light speed. Once he throws Mjolnir, the magical properties of the hammer allows him to travel through space at warp-speeds. Oddly enough, I read a thread about three weeks ago that states that Thor can use Mjolnir to travel several times the speed of light. "
Thor can fly at speeds enabling him to "overtake space vessels", but I have never seen him access hyperspace with it. "

Exactly.

In all the appearances I have seen Thor, he has flown at escape velocity - so around 30,000 mph.

Even the older handbboks make no mention of his ability to fly faster than this speed.

I have not even seen him access hyperspace either (classic Thor that is).

#22 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

acewasp23 says:

"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."

Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol.

#23 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."

Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol."

Can you speak any English?

I am trying to decipher wtf you just said, and they never made Captain Marvel this strong for no reason. Shazam was killed by Spectre and all the Marvels powers and Shazams went into Billy Baston a.k.a Captain Marvel now Lord Marvel. He has all the power of every marvel and all the power of Shazam. He has power well beyond Superman now. He has Immortality, Omnipotent, Omnipresence, omniscience, master telepathy and sorcery; Billy has omnipotent mastery of magics and mysticism. He truly knows magic and can cast spells to achieve a number of powerful results. He has unlimited access to Personal, Universal and Dimensional Energies.

But Captain Marvel can take hits if he took hits from one of the strongest person in DC - Superman, then he can takes hits. You should read up on characters instead of being ignorant.

#24 Posted by Terminal Velocity (583 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"zee crusher says:
"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."

Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol."

Can you speak any English?

I am trying to decipher wtf you just said, and they never made Captain Marvel this strong for no reason. Shazam was killed by Spectre and all the Marvels powers and Shazams went into Billy Baston a.k.a Captain Marvel now Lord Marvel. He has all the power of every marvel and all the power of Shazam. He has power well beyond Superman now. He has Immortality, Omnipotent, Omnipresence, omniscience, master telepathy and sorcery; Billy has omnipotent mastery of magics and mysticism. He truly knows magic and can cast spells to achieve a number of powerful results. He has unlimited access to Personal, Universal and Dimensional Energies.

But Captain Marvel can take hits if he took hits from one of the strongest person in DC - Superman, then he can takes hits. You should read up on characters instead of being ignorant."

Perfect post man. thumbs up

#25 Posted by Terminal Velocity (583 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."

Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol."

Oh Captain Marvel was never good at taking hits? I guess Superman was just playing when he punched him, huh?

#26 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Terminal Velocity says:

"zee crusher says:
"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."
Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol."
Oh Captain Marvel was never good at taking hits? I guess Superman was just playing when he punched him, huh?"

well yeah. well least in fanboys dreamland he was.

#27 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"zee crusher says:
"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."
Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol."
Can you speak any English? I am trying to decipher wtf you just said, and they never made Captain Marvel this strong for no reason. Shazam was killed by Spectre and all the Marvels powers and Shazams went into Billy Baston a.k.a Captain Marvel now Lord Marvel. He has all the power of every marvel and all the power of Shazam. He has power well beyond Superman now. He has Immortality, Omnipotent, Omnipresence, omniscience, master telepathy and sorcery; Billy has omnipotent mastery of magics and mysticism. He truly knows magic and can cast spells to achieve a number of powerful results. He has unlimited access to Personal, Universal and Dimensional Energies. But Captain Marvel can take hits if he took hits from one of the strongest person in DC - Superman, then he can takes hits. You should read up on characters instead of being ignorant."

No dumbass i know my stuff its you who the dumbass that cantt read if your so smart youd read soem oen elses shit okay bitch and yeah he took hits from dcs strongest character superman your point beta ray bills obviously stronger so your the ignorant one dont care if he was killed by spectre that dumbs shit yoru sayign which is obviously known sinc ehe had to power himself up for that battle same way thor did for surtur superman did for round two of doomsday your dumbass is the ignorant on here okay.I know how th new ones powers is dumbass go back a few topics you will see some oen already had hsi power people were talkign about how their adding power for nothing this is about a regular shazam vs beta ray bill it was neer said currenrt so that makes you sound even more iggnorant.

#28 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

Terminal Velocity says:

"zee crusher says:
"acewasp23 says:
"Beta Ray Bill says:
"yes finally i found a battle that isn't one sided and makes people think"
LoL Na i would say it is since marvels latest transformation into Lord Marvel. now i think he is about as powerfull as rune king thor."
Lol they did to much to him liek you said they made the guy and omnipotent for no reason that was a pretty dumb move but this is a good on the only thing captian marvel has the regular oen atleats is speed beta ray bill has strength more ofcourse since they already stated hes stronger then yeah but if captian doesnt take to many hits he wins if he doesne what hes done to superman fly in hit him twice knock him out hes stand a better chance but yeah captian marvel for some odd reason was never good with takign hits lol."
Oh Captain Marvel was never good at taking hits? I guess Superman was just playing when he punched him, huh?"

No its called SUPERMAN HOLDING BACK SO HE WONT KILL HIM AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE CURRENT CAPTIAN MARVEL STUPID ALREADY STATED THAT.

#29 Posted by warlock360 (28064 posts) - - Show Bio

Beta Ray Bill says:

"what can lord marvel do?"

well first of all shazam is the ultimate master of magic... and now hes lord marvel... captain marvel is a superman stalemate but has magic and thats what takes the win... and since lord marvel is the master of magic and marvel... =pwnage!!

#30 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

On numerous occasions we have seen Superman fight Capt Marvel - and in most circumstances it is cloase or a stalemate for the win.

Why bacuase Capt Marvel (not new Marvel) is the one person who can equal pretty much physically equal Superman on DC Earth. He has all the same physical powers - Super strength, Super speed, Flight, Invulnerability, Super endurance and he then backs this up with the Wisdom of Solomon (an ability used far too infrequently as it can help him recognise avenues of action to take to achieve victory - or avoid defeat).

Lets qualify his abilities against those of Beta Ray Bill.

Super strength: As pretty much an equal to Superman, Capt Marvel can lift in excess of 2.5 million tonnes - the exact I don't know. Beta Ray Bill is as strong as classic Thor. Officially able to lift just over 100 tonnes, we have seen Thor perform feats of strength like lifting the Midgard Serpents tail or lifting and throwing the Odin Sword. To perform these tasks I would say he had to be able to lift around 70 thousand tonnes. So thus can Beta Ray Bill.

70,000 tonnes goes in to 2,500,000 tonnes almost 36 times. So it would appear that Capt is at least 36 times stronger than Beta Ray Bill.

Super Speed: The ability to react and undertake actions like a superspeedster i.e. go in to bullet time so people appear like statues, bullets in travel are moving forward at a snails pace etc.

Capt Marvel has the speed of Hermes and like Superman can react and take actions like a 'slow' Flash.

He can travel in bullet time and perform, think and react at hundreds of times faster than a normal man can. This can enable him to move so swiftly as to be unseen by the naked eye, dodge projectiles and even energy beams. It also permits him to attack dozens of times a second if required.

Beta Ray Bill lacks this element of Super speed, possessing reflexes and agility beyond peak human but perhaps around 4 - 5 times that of a normal human. Thus he would be incapable of reacting to or hitting Capt Marvel if Capt Marvel attacked at Super speed.

Invulnerability: Capt Marvel has demonstrated durability that is on par with that of Superman - capable of resisting even Supermans strongest blows without significant damage. Thus from all the references seen, he should also prove capable of surviving a 10 megatonne Nuke (like Supes did). This means that he withstood a device easily capable of destroying Secondary Adamantium. A 10 megatonne Nuke generates sufficient heat to reach well over 500,000 degs Fahrenhite and a pressure that is difficult to imagine.

This would seem to be greater than the durability previously shown by Beta Ray Bill, who has been made to bleed by individuals and forces weaker than himself (Wrecking Crew - although enhanced,recently). I admit that he is very durable but that this level of durability is sufficient against beings weaker than him and up to those of similar strength. It would not suffice against blows from a being 36+ times stronger.

Flight Speed: Capt Marvel can fly at speeds rivalling the Flashes running speed (he does have the speed of Hermes) so upto light speed. As he also possesses 'Super speed' he can accelerate extremely rapidly to this velocity.

Beta Ray Bill can also apparently fly at very high speeds although i question if he can reach light speed (we have seen Thor throw his hammer and then have it accelerate to light speed - but not in flight). We do however now know that as Bill's hammer duplicates Thors, he should be able to enter Hyperspace and fly faster than Light speed.

Does this help in this fight - I don't think so.

Endurance - They can both fight for weeks or months if they had to so I call this one equal.

Fighting Ability: Bill is definately the more learned, having just about beaten Thor in hand to hand combat.

Weapons: Bill has Stormbreaker - so he can throw it, use it for flight, project lightning bolts from it, summon/dismiss storms and use it to travel between dimensions (I have ignored the eneregy absorption ability here as it has no benefit).

I still don't see Bill winning. Why ?

Capt Marvel is massively stronger and appears to be more durable but the main point is his super speed.

He can move and attack quicker than the eye can follow. He could have punched Bill and moved off before Bill even saw him coming. How can Bill hit, lightning bolt or throw his hammer at an oppoent who can move faster than his eye can see. I know the argumant about throwing his hammer at the speed of light.

No when he initially launches it he doesn't. He twirls the hammer and releases it and it may be travelling initially at bullet speed but after he releases it he commands it to accelerate to light speed.

His ttack speed is tsill based on refelxes and reaction speed - like I said maybe 5 times that of a normal man. How does he keep track of, let alone attack an oppoent like Cap Marvel who can move and attack faster than Bill can see or follow.

Simple, Bill can't.

In the end this battle is won by speed and raw power - Capt Marvel for the win.

#31 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Excellent points and analysis Creator. I dont see why some people still dont get the differences between the Superman type (for lack of a better term) characters in DC (Superman, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel, etc.) and the Marvel powerhouses. Usually when youre looking at a Marvel powerhouse, he is immensely strong (for Marvel) and durable, but he does not have the level of reaction time that those Superman type characters from DC have. Unless you are talking about Silver Surfer or Thanos (who has proven to be quick enough to respond to all but the fastest speedsters, ie the Runner who is much quicker than any of the DC characters.) youre probably talking about a loss for the Marvel character.

I know that Thor and Beta Ray Bill's hammers can fly at light speed, however neither of them can react at anywhere near the speed that Superman or Captain Marvel can. So it's like watching a normal human try to shoot Spider-Man. The bullet travels faster then Spider-Man can, but the shooter can't draw a bead on Spider-Man or even pull the trigger fast enough to shoot him.

Anyone with powers analogous to Superman's, from the DC Universe, should be able to make fairly light work out of most of Marvel's powerhouses.

#32 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"Anyone with powers analogous to Superman's, from the DC Universe, should be able to make fairly light work out of most of Marvel's powerhouses."

I know this fight involves neither superman nor sentry, but I wanted to post this.

DC. 1 hand. 0 effort. Success:

Marvel. 2 hands. Extreme effort. Failure:

Moderator
#33 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

lol Excellent Buck. You know I was actually thinking of creating a thread this morning to illustrate the difference in strength level. Taking no one's word for anything. Everything would have to be backed up with visual evidence. I wanted to do it just for Zee and any of the others who for some reason think that the upper level (strength) Marvel characters are as strong or stronger than the upper level (strength) DC characters.

#34 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"lol Excellent Buck. You know I was actually thinking of creating a thread this morning to illustrate the difference in strength level. Taking no one's word for anything. Everything would have to be backed up with visual evidence. I wanted to do it just for Zee and any of the others who for some reason think that the upper level (strength) Marvel characters are as strong or stronger than the upper level (strength) DC characters."

That's a good idea but when will you get off your butt and do it? I'm still waiting for the Exploding Suns chart. I think you, me and creator should get together and bang one out.

Moderator
#35 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"That's a good idea but when will you get off your butt and do it? I'm still waiting for the Exploding Suns chart. I think you, me and creator should get together and bang one out."

I agree whole heartedly. I would have done the one today, except work has gotten in the way. But I'll have that started by tonight and then we can look into that Exploding Suns Chart. Marvel just doesnt seem interested in doing it for us.

#36 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Well let us know when it's done or if you need any images.

Moderator
#37 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Well let us know when it's done or if you need any images."

I definitely will. I want everyone to provide images of pure strength feats. I dont even want to count it if the character is flying. I'm just coming up with the qualifiers now.

#38 Posted by Supreme Marvel (11268 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"On numerous occasions we have seen Superman fight Capt Marvel - and in most circumstances it is cloase or a stalemate for the win.Why bacuase Capt Marvel (not new Marvel) is the one person who can equal pretty much physically equal Superman on DC Earth. He has all the same physical powers - Super strength, Super speed, Flight, Invulnerability, Super endurance and he then backs this up with the Wisdom of Solomon (an ability used far too infrequently as it can help him recognise avenues of action to take to achieve victory - or avoid defeat).Lets qualify his abilities against those of Beta Ray Bill.Super strength: As pretty much an equal to Superman, Capt Marvel can lift in excess of 2.5 million tonnes - the exact I don't know. Beta Ray Bill is as strong as classic Thor. Officially able to lift just over 100 tonnes, we have seen Thor perform feats of strength like lifting the Midgard Serpents tail or lifting and throwing the Odin Sword. To perform these tasks I would say he had to be able to lift around 70 thousand tonnes. So thus can Beta Ray Bill.70,000 tonnes goes in to 2,500,000 tonnes almost 36 times. So it would appear that Capt is at least 36 times stronger than Beta Ray Bill.Super Speed: The ability to react and undertake actions like a superspeedster i.e. go in to bullet time so people appear like statues, bullets in travel are moving forward at a snails pace etc.Capt Marvel has the speed of Hermes and like Superman can react and take actions like a 'slow' Flash.He can travel in bullet time and perform, think and react at hundreds of times faster than a normal man can. This can enable him to move so swiftly as to be unseen by the naked eye, dodge projectiles and even energy beams. It also permits him to attack dozens of times a second if required.Beta Ray Bill lacks this element of Super speed, possessing reflexes and agility beyond peak human but perhaps around 4 - 5 times that of a normal human. Thus he would be incapable of reacting to or hitting Capt Marvel if Capt Marvel attacked at Super speed.Invulnerability: Capt Marvel has demonstrated durability that is on par with that of Superman - capable of resisting even Supermans strongest blows without significant damage. Thus from all the references seen, he should also prove capable of surviving a 10 megatonne Nuke (like Supes did). This means that he withstood a device easily capable of destroying Secondary Adamantium. A 10 megatonne Nuke generates sufficient heat to reach well over 500,000 degs Fahrenhite and a pressure that is difficult to imagine.This would seem to be greater than the durability previously shown by Beta Ray Bill, who has been made to bleed by individuals and forces weaker than himself (Wrecking Crew - although enhanced,recently). I admit that he is very durable but that this level of durability is sufficient against beings weaker than him and up to those of similar strength. It would not suffice against blows from a being 36+ times stronger.Flight Speed: Capt Marvel can fly at speeds rivalling the Flashes running speed (he does have the speed of Hermes) so upto light speed. As he also possesses 'Super speed' he can accelerate extremely rapidly to this velocity.Beta Ray Bill can also apparently fly at very high speeds although i question if he can reach light speed (we have seen Thor throw his hammer and then have it accelerate to light speed - but not in flight). We do however now know that as Bill's hammer duplicates Thors, he should be able to enter Hyperspace and fly faster than Light speed.Does this help in this fight - I don't think so.Endurance - They can both fight for weeks or months if they had to so I call this one equal.Fighting Ability: Bill is definately the more learned, having just about beaten Thor in hand to hand combat.Weapons: Bill has Stormbreaker - so he can throw it, use it for flight, project lightning bolts from it, summon/dismiss storms and use it to travel between dimensions (I have ignored the eneregy absorption ability here as it has no benefit).I still don't see Bill winning. Why ?Capt Marvel is massively stronger and appears to be more durable but the main point is his super speed.He can move and attack quicker than the eye can follow. He could have punched Bill and moved off before Bill even saw him coming. How can Bill hit, lightning bolt or throw his hammer at an oppoent who can move faster than his eye can see. I know the argumant about throwing his hammer at the speed of light.No when he initially launches it he doesn't. He twirls the hammer and releases it and it may be travelling initially at bullet speed but after he releases it he commands it to accelerate to light speed.His ttack speed is tsill based on refelxes and reaction speed - like I said maybe 5 times that of a normal man. How does he keep track of, let alone attack an oppoent like Cap Marvel who can move and attack faster than Bill can see or follow.Simple, Bill can't.In the end this battle is won by speed and raw power - Capt Marvel for the win."

I was going to say something but after reading that i don't see much point, now. Zee Crusher some knowledge for you. Learn to show more respect to people, that would be good knowledge to have.

#39 Posted by Terminal Velocity (583 posts) - - Show Bio

Lord Shazam says:

"The_Creator says:
"On numerous occasions we have seen Superman fight Capt Marvel - and in most circumstances it is cloase or a stalemate for the win.Why bacuase Capt Marvel (not new Marvel) is the one person who can equal pretty much physically equal Superman on DC Earth. He has all the same physical powers - Super strength, Super speed, Flight, Invulnerability, Super endurance and he then backs this up with the Wisdom of Solomon (an ability used far too infrequently as it can help him recognise avenues of action to take to achieve victory - or avoid defeat).Lets qualify his abilities against those of Beta Ray Bill.Super strength: As pretty much an equal to Superman, Capt Marvel can lift in excess of 2.5 million tonnes - the exact I don't know. Beta Ray Bill is as strong as classic Thor. Officially able to lift just over 100 tonnes, we have seen Thor perform feats of strength like lifting the Midgard Serpents tail or lifting and throwing the Odin Sword. To perform these tasks I would say he had to be able to lift around 70 thousand tonnes. So thus can Beta Ray Bill.70,000 tonnes goes in to 2,500,000 tonnes almost 36 times. So it would appear that Capt is at least 36 times stronger than Beta Ray Bill.Super Speed: The ability to react and undertake actions like a superspeedster i.e. go in to bullet time so people appear like statues, bullets in travel are moving forward at a snails pace etc.Capt Marvel has the speed of Hermes and like Superman can react and take actions like a 'slow' Flash.He can travel in bullet time and perform, think and react at hundreds of times faster than a normal man can. This can enable him to move so swiftly as to be unseen by the naked eye, dodge projectiles and even energy beams. It also permits him to attack dozens of times a second if required.Beta Ray Bill lacks this element of Super speed, possessing reflexes and agility beyond peak human but perhaps around 4 - 5 times that of a normal human. Thus he would be incapable of reacting to or hitting Capt Marvel if Capt Marvel attacked at Super speed.Invulnerability: Capt Marvel has demonstrated durability that is on par with that of Superman - capable of resisting even Supermans strongest blows without significant damage. Thus from all the references seen, he should also prove capable of surviving a 10 megatonne Nuke (like Supes did). This means that he withstood a device easily capable of destroying Secondary Adamantium. A 10 megatonne Nuke generates sufficient heat to reach well over 500,000 degs Fahrenhite and a pressure that is difficult to imagine.This would seem to be greater than the durability previously shown by Beta Ray Bill, who has been made to bleed by individuals and forces weaker than himself (Wrecking Crew - although enhanced,recently). I admit that he is very durable but that this level of durability is sufficient against beings weaker than him and up to those of similar strength. It would not suffice against blows from a being 36+ times stronger.Flight Speed: Capt Marvel can fly at speeds rivalling the Flashes running speed (he does have the speed of Hermes) so upto light speed. As he also possesses 'Super speed' he can accelerate extremely rapidly to this velocity.Beta Ray Bill can also apparently fly at very high speeds although i question if he can reach light speed (we have seen Thor throw his hammer and then have it accelerate to light speed - but not in flight). We do however now know that as Bill's hammer duplicates Thors, he should be able to enter Hyperspace and fly faster than Light speed.Does this help in this fight - I don't think so.Endurance - They can both fight for weeks or months if they had to so I call this one equal.Fighting Ability: Bill is definately the more learned, having just about beaten Thor in hand to hand combat.Weapons: Bill has Stormbreaker - so he can throw it, use it for flight, project lightning bolts from it, summon/dismiss storms and use it to travel between dimensions (I have ignored the eneregy absorption ability here as it has no benefit).I still don't see Bill winning. Why ?Capt Marvel is massively stronger and appears to be more durable but the main point is his super speed.He can move and attack quicker than the eye can follow. He could have punched Bill and moved off before Bill even saw him coming. How can Bill hit, lightning bolt or throw his hammer at an oppoent who can move faster than his eye can see. I know the argumant about throwing his hammer at the speed of light.No when he initially launches it he doesn't. He twirls the hammer and releases it and it may be travelling initially at bullet speed but after he releases it he commands it to accelerate to light speed.His ttack speed is tsill based on refelxes and reaction speed - like I said maybe 5 times that of a normal man. How does he keep track of, let alone attack an oppoent like Cap Marvel who can move and attack faster than Bill can see or follow.Simple, Bill can't.In the end this battle is won by speed and raw power - Capt Marvel for the win."

I was going to say something but after reading that i don't see much point, now. Zee Crusher some knowledge for you. Learn to show more respect to people, that would be good knowledge to have."

I thought the exact same thing. If it wasn't for people like The Creator, who think logically and don't just spout bullshit and insult people, I wouldn't come to these forums.

#40 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Terminal Velocity says:

"Lord Shazam says:
"The_Creator says:
"On numerous occasions we have seen Superman fight Capt Marvel - and in most circumstances it is cloase or a stalemate for the win. Why bacuase Capt Marvel (not new Marvel) is the one person who can equal pretty much physically equal Superman on DC Earth. He has all the same physical powers - Super strength, Super speed, Flight, Invulnerability, Super endurance and he then backs this up with the Wisdom of Solomon (an ability used far too infrequently as it can help him recognise avenues of action to take to achieve victory - or avoid defeat). Lets qualify his abilities against those of Beta Ray Bill. Super strength: As pretty much an equal to Superman, Capt Marvel can lift in excess of 2.5 million tonnes - the exact I don't know. Beta Ray Bill is as strong as classic Thor. Officially able to lift just over 100 tonnes, we have seen Thor perform feats of strength like lifting the Midgard Serpents tail or lifting and throwing the Odin Sword. To perform these tasks I would say he had to be able to lift around 70 thousand tonnes. So thus can Beta Ray Bill. 70,000 tonnes goes in to 2,500,000 tonnes almost 36 times. So it would appear that Capt is at least 36 times stronger than Beta Ray Bill. Super Speed: The ability to react and undertake actions like a superspeedster i.e. go in to bullet time so people appear like statues, bullets in travel are moving forward at a snails pace etc. Capt Marvel has the speed of Hermes and like Superman can react and take actions like a 'slow' Flash. He can travel in bullet time and perform, think and react at hundreds of times faster than a normal man can. This can enable him to move so swiftly as to be unseen by the naked eye, dodge projectiles and even energy beams. It also permits him to attack dozens of times a second if required. Beta Ray Bill lacks this element of Super speed, possessing reflexes and agility beyond peak human but perhaps around 4 - 5 times that of a normal human. Thus he would be incapable of reacting to or hitting Capt Marvel if Capt Marvel attacked at Super speed. Invulnerability: Capt Marvel has demonstrated durability that is on par with that of Superman - capable of resisting even Supermans strongest blows without significant damage. Thus from all the references seen, he should also prove capable of surviving a 10 megatonne Nuke (like Supes did). This means that he withstood a device easily capable of destroying Secondary Adamantium. A 10 megatonne Nuke generates sufficient heat to reach well over 500,000 degs Fahrenhite and a pressure that is difficult to imagine. This would seem to be greater than the durability previously shown by Beta Ray Bill, who has been made to bleed by individuals and forces weaker than himself (Wrecking Crew - although enhanced,recently). I admit that he is very durable but that this level of durability is sufficient against beings weaker than him and up to those of similar strength. It would not suffice against blows from a being 36+ times stronger. Flight Speed: Capt Marvel can fly at speeds rivalling the Flashes running speed (he does have the speed of Hermes) so upto light speed. As he also possesses 'Super speed' he can accelerate extremely rapidly to this velocity. Beta Ray Bill can also apparently fly at very high speeds although i question if he can reach light speed (we have seen Thor throw his hammer and then have it accelerate to light speed - but not in flight). We do however now know that as Bill's hammer duplicates Thors, he should be able to enter Hyperspace and fly faster than Light speed. Does this help in this fight - I don't think so. Endurance - They can both fight for weeks or months if they had to so I call this one equal. Fighting Ability: Bill is definately the more learned, having just about beaten Thor in hand to hand combat. Weapons: Bill has Stormbreaker - so he can throw it, use it for flight, project lightning bolts from it, summon/dismiss storms and use it to travel between dimensions (I have ignored the eneregy absorption ability here as it has no benefit). I still don't see Bill winning. Why ? Capt Marvel is massively stronger and appears to be more durable but the main point is his super speed. He can move and attack quicker than the eye can follow. He could have punched Bill and moved off before Bill even saw him coming. How can Bill hit, lightning bolt or throw his hammer at an oppoent who can move faster than his eye can see. I know the argumant about throwing his hammer at the speed of light. No when he initially launches it he doesn't. He twirls the hammer and releases it and it may be travelling initially at bullet speed but after he releases it he commands it to accelerate to light speed. His ttack speed is tsill based on refelxes and reaction speed - like I said maybe 5 times that of a normal man. How does he keep track of, let alone attack an oppoent like Cap Marvel who can move and attack faster than Bill can see or follow. Simple, Bill can't. In the end this battle is won by speed and raw power - Capt Marvel for the win. "
I was going to say something but after reading that i don't see much point, now. Zee Crusher some knowledge for you. Learn to show more respect to people, that would be good knowledge to have."
I thought the exact same thing. If it wasn't for people like The Creator, who think logically and don't just spout bullshit and insult people, I wouldn't come to these forums. "

Thanks.

#41 Posted by Clantern (666 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay just to make another thing clear to people who said CM can't take hit's, so Green Lantern can kick superman's metal @$$ from planet to planet, well Hal can anyway, right.

This was an incedant in a very old JLA comic (way before parallax and all that cock up :-P) Hal's ring got took over, and he punched superman in the face and superman went flying, then he made 4 arms and hit captain marvel with them, but straight away he got up, and punched him in the face knocking him out of telepathy, and all this happend while supes was still on the floor.

Right so without reading that above, to conclude, CM can take more hit's than Supes.

#42 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Clantern says:

"Green Lantern can kick superman's metal @$$ from planet to planet."

This is absurd.
Post Edited:2007-09-13 13:30:24

Moderator
#43 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

lol I am going to assume that he said that because Supes is the man of steel. Though his reasoning is woefully flawed.

#44 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"lol I am going to assume that he said that because Supes is the man of steel. Though his reasoning is woefully flawed."

But he was right about the overall argument. Cap Marvel is very durable. We should encourage other to research the info prior to the posting.
Post Edited:2007-09-13 13:21:00

#45 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree. He did actually take the extra step to use something he had seen before to determine Captain Marvel's durability, and even used it to illustrate his argument. We should always encourage that.

#46 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Clantern says:

"Green Lantern can kick superman's metal @$$ from planet to planet."

I'm still laughing.

Moderator
#47 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Clantern says:
"Green Lantern can kick superman's metal @$$ from planet to planet."
I'm still laughing."

lol

#48 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Forever says:

"Buckshot says:
"Clantern says:
"Green Lantern can kick superman's metal @$$ from planet to planet."
I'm still laughing."
lol"

Superman = Old Iron Ass

#49 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Forever says:
"Buckshot says:
"Clantern says:
"Green Lantern can kick superman's metal @$$ from planet to planet."
I'm still laughing."
lol"
Superman = Old Iron Ass "

lol

#50 Posted by lordraiden (7572 posts) - - Show Bio

give me BRB in a hard fought battle.