Best Tactical Mind

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Namor_Curry

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#1  Edited By Namor_Curry

This is not at all a scientific mind competition, nor is it about who can take advantage of prep time and solo with gadgets/magic. I want to know who you think is the best leader, not based on power levels, but based off of how creative they can be. Which of these characters has best and consistently utilized the abilities of their team in surprising and unexpected ways to beat their opponents? I'll give some examples and explain why I picked them. This is a battle of military commanding prowess. If the character you have in mind is not on the list, feel free to write your own and give an explanation.

Aquaman: Wrote the Atlantean War plans, which, when put into action by Orm, very much succeeded at incapacitating all of the surface world's defenses, including the Justice League. Arthur has also consistently utilized The Others to bring down very powerful opponents as well.

Captain America: One of the greatest tactical minds in Marvel. During Civil War, he outwitted Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Hank Pym during which he made incredible use of his team in order to free his captured allies and turn the tables on a much larger force of opponents. Only the fact that Steve changed his mind caused him to surrender. Bonus points for inspiring speeches.

Cyclops: Longstanding tactical leader of the X-Men. Has countlessly utilized the mutants under his command to stop threats way above their power levels.

Black Panther: Civilian and Military leader of Wakanda, T'Challa has utilized the very advanced yet unorthodox Wakandan technology and forces to suppress The Avengers multiple times. Brilliantly has his forces spring traps and take advantage of home turf. More of a leader by example.

The Joker: A man who by all intents and purposes is completely powerless, yet he is trouble for meta-humans everywhere. He uses nothing more than his wits to get people to work for him, and has brought Gotham to it's knees on multiple occasions. A man who leads through fear, but certainly gets the job done.

Honorable Mentions that I didn't feel like giving a bio for: Batman, Loki, Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, Bane, Rocket, Nick Fury.

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Namor_Curry

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#2  Edited By Namor_Curry

Personal Opinions:

It's between Arthur Curry and Steve Rogers to me. Just considering the idea that if Aquaman went rogue he could've ruled the surface and the oceans is bone chilling. Although, Steve could've taken down any Marvel character that opposed his ideals. But what I find more impressive with Captain America's Civil War feats are that he accomplished this with holes in the plan. Things went wrong. People he needed got captured and he adjusted his strategy and still made it work. I think I'll take Steve as the best military commander, but Aquaman as a close second, if not a tie for first.

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transcendence

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Black Panther.

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Savageslayer

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Joker.

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deactivated-5c6600594117e

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Cyclops but I am completely biased.

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Namor_Curry

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Hm. Doesn't seem like anyone can agree on one person. This is interesting to me because threads like this usually gravitate to a two pony race.

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bigcimmerian

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roronuffy

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You should've put Lelouche on this list since he's one of the few characters to start from nothing and bring about world peace after taking over the world. Ozymandias would be another one.

But from your list, give me Doom, Batman, or Captain America. Depending on the situation any of these three could win

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Namor_Curry

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@roronuffy: I said if you'd like to add a character feel free to do so, as long as you give an explanation/description of why they would have the best military commanding prowess.

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JuxtMako

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The Brain/The Chief: Both scientists where were involved in an accident which lead The Chief friend into becoming a brain in a jar named The Brain. The Brain is focused on perfecting criminal plans and defeating his enemy the Chief, the two came to form and lead their own groups: The Brotherhood of Evil and the Doom Patrol. The Brain's most effective trick is soft coercion and being able to make unwitting pawns out of people for his crimes. The Brain even managed to train and teach an ape well enough to achieve an IQ of 178.

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Rayox21

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Batman is the best because hes Batman!!!!!!!!!!!

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Namor_Curry

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@bigcimmerian: The main reason I hesitated giving Bruce a description is because often times he does this without a team. Without help. He's not really leading anyone. He's just utilizing prep time for his own advantage. It is true, he has done things as a tactical leader with the Justice League, but most of the time he's just on his own trying to fight the problem. Also this. Classic:

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roronuffy

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#13  Edited By roronuffy

@namor_curry: Ok then give me Lelouche. He started as a school boy and led a rebel army of a few hundred against the largest army in the world full of generals almost as smart as him. He also successfully brought about world peace.

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Namor_Curry

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conner_wolf

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I'm gonna go with Captain America, Civil War and Operation: Galactic Storm prove ust how incredible of a strategist he is. Even with all of Tony's technology Captain America is still the strategical mind behind the Avengers.

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Rayox21

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#16  Edited By Rayox21
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bigcimmerian

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Namor_Curry

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@bigcimmerian: Ignoring my point about him consistently not being a leader with a scan of him going solo. Classic indeed.

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bigcimmerian

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@bigcimmerian: Ignoring my point about him consistently not being a leader with a scan of him going solo. Classic indeed.

I was kidding, you're right, Batman is strategic genious, but he's most of the times going solo.

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thedailybagel

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#20 thedailybagel  Moderator

I think an honourable mention should be hiroim, a member of hulk's warbound. He constantly used quick thinking strategys on sakaar and was the brains behind hulks invasion of Earth.

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roronuffy

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@namor_curry: Ok well give me Lelouche. He started as a schoolboy and took a small rebel army of less than 100 and defeated the most powerful army in the world that had already conquered half of it. Along the way he beat multiple generals who were almost as smart as him. After he conquered the world he successfully brought about world peace, an accomplishment very few other characters can boast.

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akzarr

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but, but... wut aboot Deathstroke eh?

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Cap but Batman's the best

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SpinnerComix

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I say Aquaman. He is pretty much the King of 71% of the entire damn planet! He is the leader of pretty much the largest force in history. And I'm not even that big of an Aquaman fan

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Namor_Curry

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@akzar: Deathstroke is a mercenary, not a commanding officer. And like Batman, he does most of his work solo, not commanding a team.

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akzarr

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#26  Edited By akzarr
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DigitalShooter9

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#27  Edited By DigitalShooter9

It's between Batman, Joker and Deathstroke...

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tikhunt

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It's between Batman, Joker and Deathstroke...

Only if you look at DC's street level corner.

John Stewart has shown enough tactical competence to command the entire GL Corps.

Both Captain America and Cyclops have been stated and shown numerous times to be the two greatest tactical commanders in Marvel.

Aquaman has been shown to be an excellent tactician and strategist when his plans led to Atlantis almost winning against the surface world including the Justice League.

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Namor_Curry

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Looks like that two pony race is finally developing between Aquaman and Captain America. I like it. That was my original opinion anyway.

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username12345

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#30  Edited By username12345

Aquaman: Wrote the Atlantean War plans, which, when put into action by Orm, very much succeeded at incapacitating all of the surface world's defenses, including the Justice League. Arthur has also consistently utilized The Others to bring down very powerful opponents as well.

Whilst considering attacking earth the Atlantieans considered Batman to be the best tactical mind and in flash point batman (debatibly weaker version) led the resistance

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Captain America: One of the greatest tactical minds in Marvel. During Civil War, he outwitted Tony Stark, Reed Richards, and Hank Pym during which he made incredible use of his team in order to free his captured allies and turn the tables on a much larger force of opponents. Only the fact that Steve changed his mind caused him to surrender. Bonus points for inspiring speeches.

Batman is his physical equal first off. Second off Batman could easily out prep him. On the fly battle tactics are debatable but I'd argue Batman is better due to superior martial arts knoladge

Cyclops: Longstanding tactical leader of the X-Men. Has countlessly utilized the mutants under his command to stop threats way above their power levels.

LOL

Black Panther: Civilian and Military leader of Wakanda, T'Challa has utilized the very advanced yet unorthodox Wakandan technology and forces to suppress The Avengers multiple times. Brilliantly has his forces spring traps and take advantage of home turf. More of a leader by example.

Having better tech doesn't make him a better tactition

The Joker: A man who by all intents and purposes is completely powerless, yet he is trouble for meta-humans everywhere. He uses nothing more than his wits to get people to work for him, and has brought Gotham to it's knees on multiple occasions. A man who leads through fear, but certainly gets the job done.

Joker isn't deadly due to his tactical ability, he's deadly because he is a wild card.

Honorable Mentions that I didn't feel like giving a bio for: Batman, Loki, Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, Bane, Rocket, Nick Fury.

I'd add Slade

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Namor_Curry

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@username12345:

1. I wouldn't classify Batman as Captain America's physical equal, and I would say that Steve Rogers is a better hand to hand combatant. There's consistent feats for both of those statements, but that's not what this thread is about. The only relevant thing you brought up was that Batman lead the resistance and the Atlanteans targeted him. All of this is true. But the point is that the War Plans succeeded in incapacitating Batman, thus Arthur would be the better tactical leader. Again, you addressed Bruce's infamous prep, which as I responded several times to others is this: Batman most of the time will not be leading any teams with his prep, he does things solo. He is not a military commander, he acts on his own accord. That is not the leader I am looking for. The thread is to address who is the best commander and makes the best use of the team he is given. With that I've chosen Captain Rogers for the reasons listed in my earlier posts, with Arthur Curry being a close second.

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ElderSkaar

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Taskmaster > Punisher > Captain America

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Namor_Curry

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I don't think some of yall understand what this thread is supposed to be about. But I appreciate those that are backing up their choice as the top commander.

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Chazz85

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Captain america.

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username12345

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@namor_curry:

"I wouldn't classify Batman as Captain America's physical equal,"

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The Cap lifting 1100 pounds

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Batman lifting 1000 pounds

They aren't to far off

"and I would say that Steve Rogers is a better hand to hand combatant."

In terms of skill only, no. In terms of reaction time and speed, maybe, but IMO a fight between them with no shield or no utility belts would end in a draw, anyways

"The only relevant thing you brought up was that Batman lead the resistance and the Atlanteans targeted him. All of this is true. But the point is that the War Plans succeeded in incapacitating Batman, thus Arthur would be the better tactical leader."

1) No they didn't Zoom attacked him from behind to even the odds and then this happened

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2)

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"Again, you addressed Bruce's infamous prep, which as I responded several times to others is this: Batman most of the time will not be leading any teams with his prep, he does things solo. He is not a military commander, he acts on his own accord."

Some what, but he is very capable of team work and leading "troops"

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"He is not a military commander, he acts on his own accord."

That has almost nothing to due with who is a better tactician which is the title

Best Tactical Mind

Not trying to be mean but you should have said who is the best leader, to be fair I should have read the first paragraph better

But for the record

1) (From the first paragraph) "but based off of how creative they can be" Batman trapping the Justice League in gum is more creative than any tactics aquaman or Cap 'merica did

2) Cyborg said he was better than aquaman as a leader in Flashpoint and he has led the Justice League and Batman Incorpurated

"That is not the leader I am looking for. The thread is to address who is the best commander and makes the best use of the team he is given. With that I've chosen Captain Rogers for the reasons listed in my earlier posts, with Arthur Curry being a close second."

Batman with very few resistance members ended the war in Flashpoint, led the Bat family against the Talons, and led Batman inc against Leviathan.

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newecho

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it depends on if this means battlefield on the fly with no toys,, who would you want leading you?? that is pretty easy actually as its CAP... bruce and tchalla can lead and be extremely good with prep but most of their feats will be science when it comes to battlefield.. Another guy would be star lord... He has good tactical feats but not cap level but at least worth mentioning...

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jwwprod

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This guy:

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tikhunt

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#38  Edited By tikhunt

@username12345:

That is not 1000 pounds at all despite how much that scan is commonly misread that weight only says 300 NOT 500.

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As can be seen from this black and white version of the image it is clearly a 3 not a 5.

And physicals do not matter it's about tactics which while Batman is very capable at Cyclops, Cap, John Stewart, Aquaman etc. have more feats which put them a little bit above him.

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Strider1992

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#39  Edited By Strider1992

these 2:

Constantine
Constantine
Midnighter
Midnighter

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newecho

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@username12345:

Cap is a 2 tonner(4000 lbs) and bruce at his best is a half a tonner(1000 lbs) so yes cap is quite a bit above in strength and those scans are from the 70's.. Cap wasn't a 2 tonner yet at that time... Cap is at the physical peak a human could ever be in all stats.. while bruce is peak human and maybe even just past that,, he isn't cap...

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captain_batman_FTW

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Aquaman or the Joker.

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username12345

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@newecho: Once Bruce was able to dead lift two 3 ton coffins to save a security guard, and Cap has never been able to auxiliary lift more than 1100 as far as I can remember. In the three cross overs they had, their battles were draws all three times, not sure if that counts but it's what happened.

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algorhythm511

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There are different tiers of tactician, some are better in individual tactics, while other are better leading an army on the battle field. So, here is my breakdown.

Individual Tactics: John Constantine, Batman, DS, Joker

Small Team of Superheroes: Captain America

Large Armies: WW, Aquaman, and Thor

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HigorM

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#44 HigorM  Moderator

Does Nightwing deserves a mention?

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nickzambuto

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I'm gonna be a bit of a wildcard and throw in Nami from One Piece. Unlike guys like Captain America and Batman, who from a character perspective are SUPPOSED to be tactical geniuses, but more often than not the writers get lazy and just give them superhuman powers to get out of situations rather than use their brains, Nami is true and blue 100% human. Whenever she fights an opponent, it really comes down to her intellect and creativity, not magic martial arts or sudden superhuman strength. No dues ex machina or PIS on Oda's part, he actually puts in the hard work to make Nami a genuinely clever person. The same goes for Usopp, but he does have crazy PIS shonen willpower to help him out, and more importantly, he doesn't lead the Straw Hats, Nami does.

I would have made an argument for Vegeta, but it seems like OP is asking more about who can lead a team and win a war, whereas Vegeta is more of a lone strategist.

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username12345

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@tikhunt: looks like 500 to me. And comic fans generally agree that Batman is a lot more skilled but Cap is slightly stronger and a lot faster. BTW I wasn't hating on the cap I'm pretty sure he's in my top ten favs but I don't want people to dismiss Batman physically (my #2 next to Jesus). But that doesn't matter with tactics I agree.

John Stewart (maybe you were thinking of John Constantine or John Jonz?) is not known for his tactics at all ever, Cyclops is a wimp, nobody likes him ( :P if some one does) and isn't known for his tactics, Cap can lead team based assaults so maybe, but Batman regularly leads the Bat family, Aquaman has led armies occasionally, but it changes from version to version. Obviously there is "talk to fish can't go on land" Aquaman from the Superfriends, but the JLU Aquaman is a very adept king, whilst Batman is always a tactical genius in every adaptation. If we're going only by New 52 Aquaman hasn't led his armies as far as I know whilst Batman led Batman Inc and runs the Bat family.

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Just_Banter

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aquaman or cap imo,

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newecho

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@username12345:

What? he has never been able to lift more than 1100 LBS? lol... you don't read much captain America lol,,, and the differences in bruce's and cap's stats are noticeable... Yes bruce has some cool feats such as the coffin incident but he is still just peak human...Of course that doesn't mean anything in a fight or when it comes to tactical mind...

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tikhunt

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#49  Edited By tikhunt

@tikhunt: looks like 500 to me.(Fair enough, I can see how it may be disputed) And comic fans generally agree that Batman is a lot more skilled but Cap is slightly stronger and a lot faster. BTW I wasn't hating on the cap I'm pretty sure he's in my top ten favs but I don't want people to dismiss Batman physically (my #2 next to Jesus). But that doesn't matter with tactics I agree.

John Stewart(John Stewart is a very capable tactician often leading the Green Lantern Corps due to his strategies that have been the only reason whole groups of Green Lanterns have survived certain situations.) (maybe you were thinking of John Constantine or John Jonz?) is not known for his tactics at all ever, Cyclops is a wimp, nobody likes him ( :P if some one does) and isn't known for his tactics(Cyclops's most defining trait is his tactical mind though, even his pin point accuracy is due to his tactical ability to judge the movements of his enemies. X-Men villians have previously teamed up with Cyclops before because they know with him in charge they'll make it out alive. Cyclops's whole thing is that he is the greatest leader in the Marvel Universe.), Cap can lead team based assaults so maybe, but Batman regularly leads the Bat family, Aquaman has led armies occasionally, but it changes from version to version.(That's a very good point but the current New 52 Aquaman is a very capable tactician.) Obviously there is "talk to fish can't go on land" Aquaman from the Superfriends, but the JLU Aquaman is a very adept king, whilst Batman is always a tactical genius in every adaptation. If we're going only by New 52 Aquaman hasn't led his armies as far as I know whilst Batman led Batman Inc and runs the Bat family.

Actually after second thoughts I'm not even arguing tactics when it comes to Cyclops or Aquaman. Both of these focus on long term plans involving several people using tactics to achieve the given task which Cyclops especially excels in as his strength has always been directing large groups in tandem, this isn't to say he is no good at tactics because he is still one of the top dogs in it but it's strategy where he has no equal.

John Stewart and Captain America are still two of the greatest tacticians in their respective Universes though.

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Namor_Curry

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@username12345: The 1100 lbs bench was part of Steve's warmup, whereas Bruce was benching 600 lbs and some change. So not really close at all. Also, I am talking about the Throne of Atlantis story arc. Orm K.O.s everyone in the Justice League via magic lightning, incapacitates them, and sends them to the dark trenches, while he continues to wreak havoc on the surface world. Arthur and Cyborg were the only reasons everyone on the surface world doesn't speak Atlantean at the moment. The fact that Arthur wrote these plans shows he has a truly powerful military mind. And what's more, it was extremely difficult for the League to counter the plans even when Arthur knew exactly what they were. That just shows how effective of a strategist he is.

Also, please look at the scans you were using to address Batman being a better commander than Arthur. He is doing everything solo. At the bottom, you posted a picture of him with the batfamily, but that doesn't make him any better of a tactical leader. You cannot honestly argue that Bruce doesn't do his work solo a strong majority of the time. Not that it's important to address at this point, but Bruce going solo and incasing the League in gum is not nearly as creative as Steve's amazing tactics during Civil War, up to and including: planting a spy on the other side, knowing there was a mole on his side and using it to his advantage by fooling them, using the changelings ability to impersonate one of the three leaders of his foes in order to free his massive army in the negative zone, and not bringing in his heavy hitting secret weapon (Namor + Atlanteans) until he had all of his opponents locked in one place. He single handedly used his strategy and smaller team to beat the pants off of a larger army lead by the top 3 smartest minds in Marvel (Reed Richards, Hank Pym, Tony Stark).