#1 Edited by 14NC3 (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

A+X

  • Thor
  • Hyperion
  • Hulk
  • Scarlet Witch (not at house of M levels)
  • Captain universe
  • Sentry (no void, mind is at stable levels...)

  • Jean Grey (no phoenix force)
  • Juggernaut (no force field)
  • Colossus (colossonaut and no forcefield)
  • Ice man
  • Northstar X-man
  • Magik

Annihilators

  • Quasar
  • Silver Surfer
  • Ronan the accuser
  • Nova prime (no world mind)
  • Beta ray bill
  • Gladiator
  • Ikon

RULES

The annihilators are all at high levels (not at their most powerful versions) but will do as much as they can to win

Avengers + X-men are their latest versions, but are fighting at their most powerful (for e.g. thor, hulk, captain universe are marvel now versions)

Fight takes place on battle world. Battle world can not be destroyed

In character

No telepathy

No BFR, win by KO or death

20 mins prep for annhilators, 10 mins prep for A+X. Only battle strategy prep allowed.

#2 Posted by 14NC3 (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#3 Edited by tparks (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

Annihilators have this 10/10. They are way too overpowered. A+X have numbers, but that roster has a lot of characters that are non-factors when they are going up against characters like Quasar, Beta Ray Bill, Nova, and Surfer. Gladiator and Ronan are the two weakest and they could beat almost everyone on A+X. When you have a team of 6 and Gladiator is the second to last in power, that team is a power house. The only character on A+X who can put up a fight with the the Annihilators is Thor, but after the first 5 seconds of the battle when the rest of A+X is dead or KO'd, Thor will be helpless to the Annihilators.

Online
#4 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: I don't see how the Annihilators can win this 10/10. They are not more powerful then that A+X team.

You have Captain Universe, Thor, Hyperion, Hulk, Magik, Wanda, Iceman, Juggernaut and Phoenix. You have herald level and above herald level people in that group.

A+X wins this

#5 Edited by Owie (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

@14nc3: What does "Phoenix with no Phoenix" mean? Do you mean Jean Grey with no Phoenix?

Some of the characters are pointless. Colossus is only going to be a distraction, and Northstar isn't even a mosquito to the Annihilators.

Thor will beat BRB. Hyperion is more or less a draw for Gladiator. Captain Universe and Scarlet Witch together will beat Ronan for sure. Magik could beat Nova or possibly Quasar. But there's no one to beat the Surfer. He'll take out everyone else while those other fights are going on. I suppose when the rest of them win their fights they can beat Surfer together.

#6 Posted by Floopay (8552 posts) - - Show Bio

Quasar drains the Hulk and puts most of the other team in bubbles. The rest are taken out relatively quickly via superior firepower, and from their lack of flight.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#7 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Yeah, i don't get what a no phoenix phoenix means.

Is Captain Universe just on the level of Ronan? I guess she lacks feats but I am under the impression that they are trying to make her the big gun on a team with Hulk, Hyperion and Thor.

Magik would be Darkchilde here since it's stated that they are at their most powerful and she is a hell lord with demon armies under her command.

You also have to deal with Juggernaut w/o the option of BFR or TP. Not sure how they are putting him down either.

Wanda is someone i have difficulty measuring, she can have a tough time vs Modok and at the same time beat phoenix avatars.

Hulk should be some kind of threat as well since there is no BFR. He might not be versatile but a couple of his teamates can warp reality so his lack of versatility can be covered by the thor and the other magic users. I also seem to remember Gladiator and Quasar struggling vs magic.

Then you have the Phoenix avatar to deal with on top of Thor and co.

#8 Posted by Owie (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@owie: Yeah, i don't get what a no phoenix phoenix means.

Is Captain Universe just on the level of Ronan? I guess she lacks feats but I am under the impression that they are trying to make her the big gun on a team with Hulk, Hyperion and Thor.

Magik would be Darkchilde here since it's stated that they are at their most powerful and she is a hell lord with demon armies under her command.

You also have to deal with Juggernaut w/o the option of BFR or TP. Not sure how they are putting him down either.

Wanda is someone i have difficulty measuring, she can have a tough time vs Modok and at the same time beat phoenix avatars.

Hulk should be some kind of threat as well since there is no BFR. He might not be versatile but a couple of his teamates can warp reality so his lack of versatility can be covered by the thor and the other magic users. I also seem to remember Gladiator and Quasar struggling vs magic.

Captain Universe's powers vary somewhat depending on the host. I haven't seen enough of the new one to know for sure. I guess potentially she could be Surfer level, I don't know.

Magik would be very tough, but in fighting Quasar she'd have to deal with the fact that she can't keep him in Limbo where her power is greatest, because he can teleport between dimensions. Because of that factor, that's a fairly even fight to me.

Most of the Annihilators can simply ignore Juggernaut and Hulk because they can't fly. I guess they can be imprisoned in a bubble by Surfer or Quasar or held held up in the air telekinetically.

I agree about Wanda, that's why I kind of tried to ignore her and teamed her up with Captain Universe :)

#9 Edited by DraZah (57 posts) - - Show Bio

"The annihilators are all at their strongest versions"

Does that mean nova full powered nova force prime? and Silver surfer with QB's?

#10 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: Interesting.

Well if we go by feats then yeah i agree with you, too early to judge Capt Universe. Magik can stop people from teleporting though.. she sealed Limbo before from other teleporters and she stopped Thor from porting into Utopia and Strange from porting out of Limbo. Maybe Quasar might be able to counter her anti porting powers since I agree he is quite the powerhouse. If it's in character I have a feeling BRB and Glads will attempt to brawl with Juggy and Hulk. BRB went straight at Rulk while we have seen Glads and Hulk duke it out. They seem to love mixing it up.

I agree with your general assessment though...Wanda and Cap Universe are still enigmas. Iceman might be able to be quite useful double teaming the others I have no idea if he can freeze the blood of the humans on this team considering they are quite powerful. You also have the phoenix character waiting in the wings. If it's just Jean w/o the PF and she can't use TP in this match i don't know if her TK will be of much use against beings as powerful as the Annihilators. Maybe Jean fans can show some scans I do know her shields have tanked Binary level blasts at least.

#11 Posted by comic_book_fan (5174 posts) - - Show Bio

since when did bill and nova pass glads and ronan.

#12 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@comic_book_fan: Ikon rated Ronan the weakest amongst the Annhilators IIRC...

#13 Edited by Herald417 (117 posts) - - Show Bio

Annihilators annihilate (excuse the pun) the entire team is not really necessary to win this. Jean grey and Iceman are non factors due to jean grey not having pheonix force or telepathy and her tk not being at a level to do any harm to the annihilators and Iceman being in character so he won't be able to use his full power. Also Northstar and colossus contribute nothing at all to the fight they seriously cannot due any damage to any of the team even the lower tier members.

Juggernaut is the toughest member on the X team he has significant strength but doesn't have the versatility to hang with the annihilators without BFR or mind rape they may not be able to take him out since he has to be KOed or killed. I think BRB should be able to take him out due to his hammer having the same properties as mjolnir. If that is not able to work I think he should be vulnerable to matter manipulation.

Magik is strong but only in Limbo her magic in the standard dimension is not strong enough to go against the annihilators also she has no durability one hit from the annihilators and she would be down. Her step disks could be formidable but SS, Nova,Gladiator, and to some extent BRB have an enhanced speed which should be able to take her down before they get transported to limbo.

Scarlet witch is the hardest to quantify she could potentially swing the battle to A+X team but she has no durability and does not have enhanced reflexes so the annihilators should be able to eliminate her before she could do much damage.

Hulk is not really an issue SS could drain him and even in Maestro or WBH form the only two that he would have a chance against are ronan and gladiator (personally think that gladiator at full confidence would still stomp but an argument can be made.

I honestly don't know to much from captain universe but from what I have read and the feats that I have seen full power captain universe is at about SS level but I don't think that the current version has enough experience or knowledge of her power set to hang with the annihilators.

There are two characters on the avengers who could swing the battle depending on what the exact definition "at their most powerful is" if it means their most powerful form then Rune king thor and Binary would eliminate the annihilators on their own. If its just the most powerful version of their standard form then Ms marvel goes down pretty easy and thor puts up a good fight before being overwhelmed. Same with Hyperion but to a lesser extent.

What do guys think?

#14 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@herald417: Magik isn't the glass canon many people perceive her to be. She has enchanted armor that is faster then thought(it covers her up before she can even react) that can tank physical blows from beings that can break adamatium and she can open up bfr shields and magical shields that can absorb and redirect energy blasts. She has teleported bullets lasers and other things out of the air. She can react to Thor so she will be able to react to people like BRB. She can also heal and regen. If she starts out in Darkchilde form she can brawl with powerful demons. She can turn intangible, invisible etc....she can turn her whole team invisible, and shield them as well, cast illusions and port in demons. She could teleport in time and take out brb with the soul sword or teledismember multiple people with a thought.

You also have Thor, Cap universe, Hyperion, Northstar (who is a light speeder if i recall correctly) so you will have a lot of members to run interference for Wanda and Magik to form a thought. It's not like the blitz in character as well. One split second later everyone can end up in Limbo where she is basically a female Dormammu. She can resurrect any dead teammate. If Binary is allowed in this fight then the odds get more stacked in the favor of A+X. I still don't know how they can take down Juggs w/o TP or BFR.

#15 Edited by tparks (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@tparks: I don't see how the Annihilators can win this 10/10. They are not more powerful then that A+X team.

You have Captain Universe, Thor, Hyperion, Hulk, Magik, Wanda, Iceman, Juggernaut and Phoenix. You have herald level and above herald level people in that group.

A+X wins this

I would say out of the people you listed that Captain Universe, Hulk, Iceman, Jueggernaut, and Jean Grey (not Pheonix here) are completely useless. Captain Universe is tough, but there has never been an incarnation (is that the right word?) of Captain Universe that can hang with Surfer. Iceman can't do anything, cold isn't going to hurt people who spend most of their lives surviving the cold of deep space. Hulk and Juggernaut are grounded, the only one of the Annihilators who won't be airborne is Ronan, but Ronan is not needed in this fight anyways. Jean Grey doesn't have Pheonix Force so she is not going to do a thing or survive even a low powered shot from any of the Annihilators including even Ronan. Wanda and Hyperion are outclassed. Wanda and Hyperion are tough, but we are talking about Surfer, Quasar, Nova Prime, and Beta Ray Bill. That's a whole other level. That's not even mentioning Gladiator who is more then capable of handling a majority of the team by himself and he is the second weakest on the team. The only one on the Annihilators level is Thor, and he is way too outnumbered by other characters on the same power level.

The other thing the Annihilators could easily do is start off with a ranged blitz by flying over the battlefield with a large energy projection sweep. The combined firepower of all the annihilators is enough to take out the entire A+X in the matter of seconds. This could even include Thor. I don't think Thor will still be standing after he takes the full power of Surfer, Quasar, Nova Prime, Beta Ray Bill, and Gladiator. If he is still standing, he won't be in very good shape to keep fighting. Plus he will be alone because the rest of his team will definitely be dead or KO'd.

Online
#16 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

@chiq said:

@tparks: I don't see how the Annihilators can win this 10/10. They are not more powerful then that A+X team.

You have Captain Universe, Thor, Hyperion, Hulk, Magik, Wanda, Iceman, Juggernaut and Phoenix. You have herald level and above herald level people in that group.

A+X wins this

I would say out of the people you listed that Captain Universe, Hulk, Wanda, Iceman, Jueggernaut, and Jean Grey (not Pheonix here) are completely useless. Captain Universe is tough, but there has never been an incarnation (is that the right word?) of Captain Universe that can hang with Surfer. Hulk and Juggernaut are grounded, the only one of the Annihilators who won't be airborne is Ronan, but Ronan is not needed in this fight anyways. Wanda and Hyperion are outclassed. Wanda and Hyperion are tough, but we are talking about Surfer, Quasar, Nova Prime, and Beta Ray Bill. That's a whole other level. That's not even mentioning Gladiator who is more then capable of handling a majority of the team by himself and he is the second weakest on the team. The only one on the Annihilators level is Thor, and he is way too outnumbered by other characters on the same power level.

How can you say that? Magik just beat Dormammu by herself. How do they take out Juggernaut without TP and BFR? and this is in character both BRB and Gladiator brawled with the Hulk and Rulk. w is Hyperion useless in this fight? All these powerful teammates will give Wanda enough time to conjure up some nasty spell. Both Gladiator and Quasar have weaknesses with magic. You have Wanda and a hell lord who both have access to very powerful magic. Iceman can freeze water molecules inside the body and is pretty hard to put down.

#17 Posted by tparks (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight isn't in Limbo, so I don't think Magik's powers will be high enough to do anything and she can't teleport to Limbo in this fight because that would be a BFR. Juggernaut is a non-factor because he can not fly; same with Hulk. Wanda does not have the durability to get a spell off before she is KO'd or dead. Hyperion is tough, but if you put Hyperion in a vs. thread on here with any of the Annihilators except for Ronan, he would lose. He might go 5/5 with Gladiator, but he would lose every time to Surfer, BRB, Nova Prime, and Quasar.

Online
#18 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks said:

This fight isn't in Limbo, so I don't think Magik's powers will be high enough to do anything and she can't teleport to Limbo in this fight because that would be a BFR. Juggernaut is a non-factor because he can not fly; same with Hulk. Wanda does not have the durability to get a spell off before she is KO'd or dead. Hyperion is tough, but if you put Hyperion in a vs. thread on here with any of the Annihilators except for Ronan, he would lose. He might go 5/5 with Gladiator, but he would lose every time to Surfer, BRB, Nova Prime, and Quasar.

Not really she isn't removing anyone from the battle field. She's simply transferring everyone to her realm the fight is still going to continue. She can also port in a ton of demons to help out. She can also teledismember multiple targets with a thought. What if she opens a giant disc or multiple disc shields and just redirects those ranged energy blasts back at them?Thor can absorb those blasts too. With all the other Avengers on the field, Wanda will have time to pull off a spell. You act like the Annihilators will simply blow through Thor, Magik, Captain Universe, Hyperion etc.. in less time then it takes Wanda to do a couple of gestures. Even if Juggernaut can't fly they will still have to deal with him sooner or later how do you k.o. or kill him?

#19 Posted by tparks (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

Transferring everyone out of the battlefield is BFR. I think they will blow threw them in that little amount of time too. Silver Surfer is a planet buster. Quasar can move planets with quantum energy. Nova Prime is strong enough to duke it out with Surfer. BRB has Thor level power. That's absolutely enough to blow threw the entire A+X roster. I don't understand how Juggernaut is a threat. Even if they save him for last, they just need to keep out of his range which is very easy to do if they fly. Magik, Captian Universe, and Hyperion are not on Annihilators level.

Online
#20 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: if you are using high end feats how about Limbo warping the universe? Magik manipulating time on a universal scale? Transmuting PF rachel into a puppet? How about sucking all of earth to Limbo? Bringing the dead back to life? one shotting a juggernaut? Beating Legion? Beating Mephisto in his own realm? Stomping on Dormammu? Taking on Magus? How about Nova prime with the full nova force almost dying from the transmode virus while Magik is just immune to it through her enchanted armor? what about her porting in thousands of demons to back up the team? What is their answer to her simply teleporting their heads off? She can now channel Limbo energies on earth too.

how can a Hell Lord and Sorcerer Supreme along with Captain Universe, Juggernaut and Hyperion not be on their level? You said it yourself Hype is a good fight for Gladiator.

#21 Edited by EffuIgence (10 posts) - - Show Bio

Is colossus the juggernaut colossus?

Thor beats surfer, put him against surfer for the easy win and place the shit members in against another one as cannon fodder until he takes him down.

#22 Edited by tparks (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

@tparks: if you are using high end feats how about Limbo warping the universe? Magik manipulating time on a universal scale? Transmuting PF rachel into a puppet? How about sucking all of earth to Limbo? Bringing the dead back to life? one shotting a juggernaut? Beating Legion? Beating Mephisto in his own realm? Stomping on Dormammu? Taking on Magus? How about Nova prime with the full nova force almost dying from the transmode virus while Magik is just immune to it through her enchanted armor? what about her porting in thousands of demons to back up the team? What is their answer to her simply teleporting their heads off? She can now channel Limbo energies on earth too.

how can a Hell Lord and Sorcerer Supreme along with Captain Universe, Juggernaut and Hyperion not be on their level? You said it yourself Hype is a good fight for Gladiator.

I don't think the transmode virus applies here because that was just a feature of her armor. There is no transmode virus involved here. Hype is a great fight for Gladiator. I think they are pretty evenly matched, but Gladiator is the second weakest of the Annihilators so there are pleanty of others that could stomp him. There are four other members much stronger then him. I do see your point with Magik. She is very powerful. I just think that if you made a Surfer vs. Magik thread, Surfer is going to win. The rest of the team can handle everyone else on A+X. Plus I still don't know why Juggernaut keeps getting brought up. He has no offensive capabilities in this fight. At best, he's a slight distraction as a meat shield, but the Annihilators are too fast to let that be more then a slight annoyance. They can fly to the other side of who ever he tries to shield at light speeds. Or Nova can manipulate gravity to anchor Juggernaut to the ground. Or Quasar can trap him in a construct. Or they can just ignore him because he is useless on offense in this fight because he can't reach them.

I don't see the A+X taking any wins here. I can see your case with Magik, and respect that opinion. You used a lot of examples that show that she has the power to have an impact in this fight. I just have a hard time believing that would happen before Surfer takes her out of the fight.

Online
#23 Edited by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

@tparks: Surfer would beat her on earth not in Limbo though...the transmode virus shows how powerful her magic is. The full nova force wasn't able to counter it while her magic was.Actually some of Limbo's demons have the transmode virus when Magus tried to infect her realm. She can tell those demons to attack and infect Nova again effectively shutting him down.

Jugs can be a meat shield for Wanda who can cause serious damage, the A+X team has enough power to give her time to work her magic. Also if this is to the last man standing how do get rid of Juggs w/o TP and BFR? Anyway Iets just agree to disagree...it's all good.

#24 Edited by 14NC3 (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

@owie: @chiq:

It's jean grey without the phoenix force. She's at her strongest without it. I called her phoenix cause that was her codename and calling her marvel girl would confuse her with the other marvel girl....

But I guess it is confusing, i'll change the OP

#25 Edited by 14NC3 (1720 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, the annihilators are not at their most powerful levels and instead are just at high levels. Northstar has been replaced by X-man and captain marvel has been replaced by sentry. Ikon has been added to the annihilators

#26 Edited by Owie (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

With the new lineup, here's how I would do match people up if I was the A/X team.

The biggest problem for any fight against the Annihilators is the Surfer. I'd go over the top to make sure I won. Thor is more or less equivalent to Surfer, so I'd put both Thor and X-Man against him. Surfer isn't winning that as long as he's in character.

Hyperion against Gladiator. They're very similar, but I think Hyperion is a tad more powerful. At worst it's a stalemate.

Sentry against Nova. I think Sentry would win this, although not easily.

Magik against Quasar. I think she has a reasonable chance here, but he could win.

Hulk against Ikon. Ikon would be totally overwhelmed, regardless of her PIS feats against the other Annihilators.

Scarlet Witch, Captain Universe, and Juggernaut against BRB. I think that would probably be enough to win decisively.

Collosonaut, Jean, and Iceman against Ronan. I would guess this should be enough to beat him as well.

It might make sense to take Scarlet Witch and add her to Magik's team against Quasar. I'm a little less sure Cap Universe and Juggs will beat BRB then however.

#27 Posted by WarBlade539 (4444 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

Quasar drains the Hulk and puts most of the other team in bubbles. The rest are taken out relatively quickly via superior firepower, and from their lack of flight.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

This.

Annihilators win, too much power.

#28 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16888 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap Universe solos.

#29 Edited by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:

Quasar drains the Hulk and puts most of the other team in bubbles. The rest are taken out relatively quickly via superior firepower, and from their lack of flight.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

This.

Annihilators win, too much power.

#30 Posted by dondave (33308 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap Universe solos.

Why would she solo, her current incarnation hasn't shown anything that put her above Silver Surfer IIRC

Online
#31 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16888 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Cap Universe solos.

Why would she solo, her current incarnation hasn't shown anything that put her above Silver Surfer IIRC

She killed all Builders with 1 or 2 shots. As You've said in other thread - Builders didn't even really noticed Binary and one of them completly controlled whole Annihilation Wave.

#32 Posted by dondave (33308 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Cap Universe solos.

Why would she solo, her current incarnation hasn't shown anything that put her above Silver Surfer IIRC

She killed all Builders with 1 or 2 shots. As You've said in other thread - Builders didn't even really noticed Binary and one of them completly controlled whole Annihilation Wave.

The builder only combat feats were being killed by Captain Universe and Thor. It's not really a bench mark to say that she solos.

Online
#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (16888 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@dondave said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Cap Universe solos.

Why would she solo, her current incarnation hasn't shown anything that put her above Silver Surfer IIRC

She killed all Builders with 1 or 2 shots. As You've said in other thread - Builders didn't even really noticed Binary and one of them completly controlled whole Annihilation Wave.

The builder only combat feats were being killed by Captain Universe and Thor. It's not really a bench mark to say that she solos.

They use their power in every possible way, against Thor they didn't use any shields. In opposite to their fight with Cap. If they could use their power to so great TP feat, their power should be comparable to people like Messiah Cable.

#34 Posted by chiq (1899 posts) - - Show Bio

A+X wins. They have the numbers and have more raw power