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#351 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11353 posts) - - Show Bio

@grandsymbiote94: Except he would have thrown them into the sun in an attempt to kill him. Which might just piss off Serena and Bellicus.

But would they even care? They know it wouldn't kill them or even hurt them for that matter.

#352 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks I'm not speculating anything. Who knows which timeline they were arguing about? They might as well have been arguing about some other timeline where dinosaurs are not extinct yet. And I am not making Bellicus to be KILL KILL KILL. He's impulsive. That one you can't deny. When Ben insulted him, his ego got bruised and he let Ben manipulate him and allowed Ben to turn back into Swampfire. His ego is size of the universe. And that's where Ben needs to strike(like he did).

#353 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@gs94 No. Superman doesn't wait. He'll see that Alien X in not vaporising like he expected, so he tries some different tactic. He tries to freeze him, melt him, punch him until Alien X twiches his fingers and kills him.

I know throwing into sun won't kill Alien X. So why would Serena and Bellicus be pissed off? Why do we swat away a fly sitting on us? Its definitely not gonna kill us. Because it irritates us. That's what Supes is to them. An irritation. And nobody likes to get irritated.

#354 Posted by Juiceboks (5992 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt dude..no. Youre drawing straws. There's nothing to suggest they were talking about some alternate timeline. That makes no sense. They were mistaken. They don't know everything. Yea Ben directly insulted him, I don't see how that would allow him to convince Bellicus to help defeat someone who bears no threat to him.

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#355 Edited by Perpetr8rMike (569 posts) - - Show Bio

@grandsymbiote94: Except he thought it would meaning he intended to kill them. Why wouldn't they take that as an insult from a far lesser being. Also what people seem to fail to realize is that This is a fight between Superman and Ben, why wouldn't they keep him alive if they need him.

#356 Edited by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@uiceboks Incursians didn't pose any threat to Bellicus either. But they still granted Ben's wish to let him transform back so he could defeat them. A dam breaking on earth would not have affected them either, but they fixed it. Hell, even when whole universe was being wiped out by that anahalargh or whatever its name, they were at no threat, because they live outside universe(Forge of creation). They do what's best for them, and loosing Ben is not one of it.

#357 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11353 posts) - - Show Bio

@grandsymbiote94: Except he thought it would meaning he intended to kill them. Why wouldn't they take that as an insult from a far lesser being. Also what people seem to fail to realize is that This is a fight between Superman and Ben, why wouldn't they keep him alive if they need him.

True, I understand what you're saying. But remember when the universe was getting destroyed and Ben turned into Alien X to save it? Even then they seemed like they could really care less.

Also I don't what you're trying to mean by this sentence here. Unless your speaking of some other users post.

@rbt said:

@gs94 No. Superman doesn't wait. He'll see that Alien X in not vaporising like he expected, so he tries some different tactic. He tries to freeze him, melt him, punch him until Alien X twiches his fingers and kills him.

I know throwing into sun won't kill Alien X. So why would Serena and Bellicus be pissed off? Why do we swat away a fly sitting on us? Its definitely not gonna kill us. Because it irritates us. That's what Supes is to them. An irritation. And nobody likes to get irritated.

I'm going to respond to your first point, Since I already addressed above the second point.

True but if wouldn't he have done that before he BFR'ed him? Also even if he didn't a morals on and in character Superman wouldn't go out of his way to kill somebody.

#358 Posted by Aros001 (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Couldn't Ben just use the Omnitrix to scan Superman so Superman's DNA would be in the watch and Ben could then transform into a Kryptonian?

#359 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11353 posts) - - Show Bio

@aros001 said:

Couldn't Ben just use the Omnitrix to scan Superman so Superman's DNA would be in the watch and Ben could then transform into a Kryptonian?

Possibly yes. But I am not getting into that argument.

#360 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aros001 Yeah. He can transform into kryptonian form. But he doesn't need to. Why would he trasnform into a kryptionian form when he's more powerful form, Alien X. And even if he does transform, Supes will beat him since both will be equal in power and Supes has more experience in using kryptonian powers. Ben is not stupid.

#361 Edited by GrandSymbiote94 (11353 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@Aros001 Yeah. He can transform into kryptonian form. But he doesn't need to. Why would he trasnform into a kryptionian form when he's more powerful form, Alien X. And even if he does transform, Supes will beat him since both will be equal in power and Supes has more experience in using kryptonian powers. Ben is not stupid.

Because the latter has 2 very, very, very annoying personalities that Ben has to deal with. Kryptonian form would be useful for Ben but yes your right he probably would get beat.

#362 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@gs94 Very very very annoying personalities indeed. But nothing Ben cannot handle. He's done it before thrice, he'll make it even numbers this time.

#363 Posted by Tohoma (1191 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@Aros001 Yeah. He can transform into kryptonian form. But he doesn't need to. Why would he trasnform into a kryptionian form when he's more powerful form, Alien X. And even if he does transform, Supes will beat him since both will be equal in power and Supes has more experience in using kryptonian powers. Ben is not stupid.

Because the latter has 2 very, very, very annoying personalities that Ben has to deal with. Kryptonian form would be useful for Ben but yes your right he probably would get beat.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't it take years for superman to absorb enough sun radiation for his powers to develop?

And also does Ben have any knowledge about supes in this battle? Because I am not seeing Ben in a random encounter picking Alien X off the bat even if he was blood lusted.

#364 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman could slap him off the planet before he even decided to pick an alien....he'd probably just pick some stupid one like canon bolt and get smacked

#365 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_of_days Again read earlier post. Ben transforms, then battle begins. And maybe Ben will choose Humongasaur or Fourarms, will get beaten up by Supes. Even if he gets killed in an alien form o-trix will bring him back. Ultimately he'll have no choice(except some I've mentioned earlier) but to go Alien X. This is third or fourth time I'm posting this.

#366 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11353 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@gs94 Very very very annoying personalities indeed. But nothing Ben cannot handle. He's done it before thrice, he'll make it even numbers this time.

Ben can't handle them. That's why him, Kevin, and Gwen made a lock on it, so he doesn't use it. The first time he threatened not to help in their desciscions at all. The second time it was a universe exploding and they still didn't want to do it at first.

@tohoma said:

@grandsymbiote94 said:

Because the latter has 2 very, very, very annoying personalities that Ben has to deal with. Kryptonian form would be useful for Ben but yes you're right he probably would get beat.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't it take years for superman to absorb enough sun radiation for his powers to develop?

And also does Ben have any knowledge about supes in this battle? Because I am not seeing Ben in a random encounter picking Alien X off the bat even if he was blood lusted.

True. But I was saying even if it worked and had all Supes powers included that it would still more useful than Alien X.

Not that I'm aware of unless OP said it later in the thread. People debating for Ben are using Alien X for a reason to win.

#367 Posted by DangerousLoki (715 posts) - - Show Bio
@rbt said:

@dangerousloki Aaand we're back to that. Supes will kill him before he transforms! Okay, when I say Batman vs someone without prep, I don't mean Bruce wayne in a meeting. I mean Batman with his Batsuit, with his utility belt. When I say GL vs someone without prep, you won't argue that his ring is dischared and his opponent kills him. So, when I say Ben vs Clark without prep, I mean Ben doesn't have any special gear like Kryptonite or a gun that can emit red sun radition(that would be cool though). Ben gets to activate his omnitrix and then fight starts. Otherwise this whole discussion will be pointless. So don't come up with what supes can do BEFORE Ben transform. Lets see what he can do AFTER. Not much actually.

The argument that Green Lantern doesn't have the speed to react to X is a valid argument until people prove he has superhuman perceptions and can react to people like Superman and Flash. Ben doesn't "get to" do anything. He doesn't go into battle transformed often and he doesn't have the speed to activate it before Superman will stop him. Batman gets his batsuit and his utility belt.. He doesn't get to use his utility belt against someone like the Flash because he doesn't have the speed to do it. Green Lantern gets his ring. He doesn't get to use it against someone like Zoom because even at light speed and above the Flash couldn't react to him. This is what we call a speed blitz. It's having the speed to attack an opponent before they can react.

#368 Edited by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@dangerousloki This arguement is invalid since OP said battle begins after Ben transforms.

#369 Edited by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@GrandSymbiote94 Ben, Gwen and Kevin put a lock on Ultimatrix so Ben doesn't accidently transform into Alien X. And they always kept the key with them since they knew Ben will need to access Alien X someday.

Yes, Bellicus and Serena never help straight away. But Ben transformed into Alien X 3 times and they did what he asked for 3 out of 4 times. Odds are in Ben's favour.

#370 Posted by MirrorWave4 (1099 posts) - - Show Bio

Ben wins!

#371 Posted by DangerousLoki (715 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt: If the battle begins with him transformed the point remains. Unless he is fortunate to start the battle in the form of Alien X. He does not have the speed or reaction time to change forms so whatever form he starts in is the form he is stuck with and none of his other forms have the speed, strength, power, or capabilities to fight Superman. Even Alien X has shown no feats of durability and while he was able to "recreate" the universe this doesn't make him durable or capable. Scarlet Witch has created her own universe, so have others and they can still be taken out by a simple punch to the jaw. In the end of the day, Ben does not have an alien capable of taking Superman and without prep he wouldn't know to start the battle in the form of Alien X who is the only form that might actually stand a chance here.

I say this as someone who hates Superman and is mildly fond of Ben. Mildly. He loses.

#372 Edited by GrandSymbiote94 (11353 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@GrandSymbiote94 Ben, Gwen and Kevin put a lock on Ultimatrix so Ben doesn't accidently transform into Alien X. And they always kept the key with them since they knew Ben will need to access Alien X someday.

Yes, Bellicus and Serena never help straight away. But Ben transformed into Alien X 3 times and they did what he asked for 3 out of 4 times. Odds are in Ben's favour.

1st time: Was a freebie they said it themselves.

2nd time: When they unlocked it, Ben asked to stop... (forget his name. The guy who Kevin beat by absorbing Ben's powers.) They didn't want to do it, Paradox got Ben to turn back.

3rd time: Universe was going to be destroyed Ben still had to argue with them for a couple of minutes to get them to remake it.

Point is that he argues with them every time and the only thing that they let him do was the universe feat and the rebuild the dam. Those are the only times they actually let him do something. Also I don't know what fourth time you're speaking of.

#373 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@DangerousLoki You have not read my earlier posts have you? I've explained this 3 times. Even if Ben starts off as other alien he could easily cycle through them, until he reaches Alien X-as last resort or whatever. While Ben is making decision as Alien X, his body remains frozen in time. And that body is omnipotent. A puch on the jaw is not gonna work. Supes can only wait while Ben plots his demise.

#374 Posted by Lux_Invictus (154 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

@ancient_of_days Again read earlier post. Ben transforms, then battle begins. And maybe Ben will choose Humongasaur or Fourarms, will get beaten up by Supes. Even if he gets killed in an alien form o-trix will bring him back. Ultimately he'll have no choice(except some I've mentioned earlier) but to go Alien X. This is third or fourth time I'm posting this.

That's not how this works *or should work anyways*
Once Ben is out, he's out.

He doesn't get unlimited tries just because he can't die. What if Supes knocks him out?

#375 Posted by RBT (3730 posts) - - Show Bio

@GrandSymbiote94 Only once did they refuse to help Ben. To defeat Aggregor. And who knows Ben might've convinced them had Paradox not come their and taken all their attention. It doesn't matter how much they argue, they finally did grant Ben's wish, 3 out of 4 times.

@DangerousLoki There are other ways Ben can defeat Supes.Ult.Big Chill by absorbing solar enegry from Supe's cell.C-stone with red sun radaition.U Echo Echo by sonic doom(Black canary was able to hurt supergirl).Ghostfreak by possesing. 2 more.

#376 Posted by God_Spawn (35985 posts) - - Show Bio

Why has no one flagged this? This overglorifying of Ben 10 the past few days has been ridiculous.

Superman in a mismatch.

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