#1 Edited by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC: Everyone in this picture (except Flash, Zatanna, and Fate), pre-52, "standard" or "classic" comics versions

vs

Team Marvel: Everyone in this picture (except Strange), "standard" or "classic" comics versions

In case no one read the above: NO Flash, Zatanna, or Fate on team DC. NO Strange on team Marvel.

Random encounter (see scenario desc below). Everyone is their standard/classic versions. Standard gear only.

Battle Scenario: Takes place on an empty alternate reality Earth. Both teams are transported to separate staging areas with no knowledge of what's going on. Each team gets 10 minutes and are told they will have to fight another team, but that's it. They have no way to gain any information about the other team until the 10 minutes are up (not even with Cosmic Awareness or magic). After 10 minutes they are informed that the other team is located 1km away. In order to make it back to their respective Earth's they must win.

Win by KO, death, or permanent incapacitation.

Which team makes it back home?

#2 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

DC. You put Zatanna on team one, and gave her 10 minutes notice.

Something along the lines of "sevod otni maet rehto eht nruT" will happen

#3 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

DC. You put Zatanna on team one, and gave her 10 minutes notice.

Something along the lines of "sevod otni maet rehto eht nruT" will happen

The other team has their own magical powers... and I have no doubt both teams would start out with some sort of magical shielding to prevent just this. I mean, it's what I'd do if I was going into an unknown situation like this.

#4 Edited by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Hmm, I don't know a lot of that Marvel lineup, but since you said classic, I'm not sure anyone from that DC team can beat classic Doctor Strange

#5 Edited by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

@willpayton: Hmm, I don't know a lot of that Marvel lineup, but since you said classic, I'm not sure anyone from that DC team can beat classic Doctor Strange

Maybe someone who's more knowledgeable on Dr Strange can give us details, but I thought Dr Fate and Zatanna would counterbalance him. If not then I'll change the rules and take out the magic users. No point if one person can unbalance the whole thing... which is why I took out Flash. =)

#6 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel said:

@willpayton: Hmm, I don't know a lot of that Marvel lineup, but since you said classic, I'm not sure anyone from that DC team can beat classic Doctor Strange

Maybe someone who's more knowledgeable on Dr Strange can give us details, but I thought Dr Fate and Zatanna would counterbalance him. If not then I'll change the rules and take out the magic users. No point if one person can unbalance the whole thing... which is why I took out Flash. =)

The classic is what hurts it. It'd be this:

vs this:

#7 Edited by Trauma (5889 posts) - - Show Bio

martian manhunter and doctor fate=big problems.....i'll take team dc

#8 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: Classic Strange and Classic Fate are at least equals.

On multiple occasions Nelson has stalemated the classic Spectre

he was also a god beater

Zatanna could potentially tip the scale for Fate

Add to that the DC team has a better telepath with Superman level stats(Manhunter),and another telepath(Aquaman), multiple Superman level beings,4 green lanterns,multiple shape-shifters, and some pretty good matter and energy manipulators(Captain Atom and Firestorm) with high physical stats I would give the DC team the win.

#9 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: Classic Strange and Classic Fate are at least equals.

On multiple occasions Nelson has stalemated the classic Spectre

he was also a god beater

Zatanna could potentially tip the scale for Fate

Add to that the DC team has a better telepath with Superman level stats(Manhunter),and another telepath(Aquaman), multiple Superman level beings,4 green lanterns,multiple shape-shifters, and some pretty good matter and energy manipulators(Captain Atom and Firestorm) with high physical stats I would give the DC team the win.

That's Silver Age Doctor Fate who is better than Doctor Strange by a bit. Golden Age Doctor Fate is "classic" Doctor Fate though.

#10 Edited by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@ciriel: I actually realized that after I sent the comment I was going to edit the comment but you beat me to it.

#11 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@sharkbearagator said:

@ciriel: Classic Strange and Classic Fate are at least equals.

On multiple occasions Nelson has stalemated the classic Spectre

he was also a god beater

Zatanna could potentially tip the scale for Fate

Yeah in my mind Fate and Strange are very close to equals. I think that for the sake of keeping the battle sane I'm going to take all the magic users out and just say that they cancel each other out.

#12 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Considering that at peak levels both Strange and Fate could be big problems for both teams it would probably be for the best.

#13 Edited by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: With magic out of the window, the marvel team is a considerably large team but are plagued by abundant street levelers but more along the lines of the fact that a lot of the DC team has Superman level heavy hitters. Manhunter, Billy, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Powergirl Captain Atom etc. would overwhelm the marvel team and it considerably weaker members. I can see Hulk Xavier and maybe Nova or Sentry posing as moderate threats, but Xavier can't handle both Aquaman and Manhunter's TP and Hulk can't beat the multiple Superman level characters.

On top of that since the Marvel team numbers are so large Manhunter can play the team against each other by shapeshifting into one of the Marvel characters and causing conflict between them or using his telepathy to stop them in their tracks, mind control, or just plain mindwipe.

All in all the DC team has better stats and a lot better methods to win.

#14 Edited by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel got this.

#15 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@sharkbearagator said:

@willpayton: With magic out of the window, the marvel team is a considerably large team but are plagued by abundant street levelers but more along the lines of the fact that a lot of the DC team has Superman level heavy hitters. Manhunter, Billy, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Powergirl Captain Atom etc. would overwhelm the marvel team and it considerably weaker members. I can see Hulk Xavier and maybe Nova or Sentry posing as moderate threats, but Xavier can't handle both Aquaman and Manhunter's TP and Hulk can't beat the multiple Superman level characters.

On top of that since the Marvel team numbers are so large Manhunter can play the team against each other by shapeshifting into one of the Marvel characters and causing conflict between them or using his telepathy to stop them in their tracks, mind control, or just plain mindwipe.

All in all the DC team has better stats and a lot better methods to win.

I think you're missing Team Marvel's most powerful member. Look more closely.

#16 Edited by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Just realised I missed Silver Surfer and Ghost Rider while they are powerful can't deny that, not so sure they tip the scale. It depends on morals for the most part and even that would still be risky for team Marvel. Sure a morals off Surfer is a beast but he lacks and real combat speed and has gotten his head dented in by Thor(I know while he had morals on but still). While his matter manipulation is handy and good it would take considerable time to use based on previous showings and same would go for a black hole (which wouldn't matter considering most DC players travel speed wise are FTL and have 4 GLs just in case). He has also shown vulnerabilty to telepathy before and like Xavier I don't think he could handle both Arthur and Jon. Also considering that would also mean a morals off DC team Fernus,WW,Superman, Captain Atom Hal Jordan etc would give him hell. I still give it to DC on that part. Ghost Rider is another story while not as lethal as Silver Surfer he can't be taken down with physical force and with magic users outed it would depend on Whether Diana is packing some holy weapons other than her lasso and Tiara. But even then I doubt he would take the whole team out by himself.

#17 Edited by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@sharkbearagator: Yeah, fight is in character, morals-on.

Wonder Woman has her standard magical gear, and Hawkman/Hawkgirl have their Nth-metal gear which disrupts magic. I think they'd be effective against Ghost Rider.

Captain Marvel also has his magical lightning attack available. So, quite a few options for dealing with Ghost Rider.

#18 Posted by GhostRider2 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Assuming it's Blaze, Zarathos can take over at any time.

#19 Edited by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Then for me Team DC 8/10 since Silver Surfer fights like an idiot with morals on.

#20 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

DC. But, I don't see why you took out Flash though. he doesn't have an IMP, isn't as fast as Wally(That's Barry is you didn't know), can't speed steal....

  • Captain Atom feeds Superman suns radiations making this a slaughter bath in DC's favour. Senses Hulks/She Hulks gamma radiation and takes it away.
  • Aquaman and Martian Manhunter can double team Prof X and mind rape him. Though I'm pretty sure Martian Manhunter would still win by himself. I just added in Martian Manhunter so people wont be able to come up with much of an arguement.
  • 4 of some of the most powerful Green Lanterns? Come on...

I can list other reasons....

#21 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

DC. But, I don't see why you took out Flash though. he doesn't have an IMP, isn't as fast as Wally(That's Barry is you didn't know), can't speed steal....

  • Captain Atom feeds Superman suns radiations making this a slaughter bath in DC's favour. Senses Hulks/She Hulks gamma radiation and takes it away.
  • Aquaman and Martian Manhunter can double team Prof X and mind rape him. Though I'm pretty sure Martian Manhunter would still win by himself. I just added in Martian Manhunter so people wont be able to come up with much of an arguement.
  • 4 of some of the most powerful Green Lanterns? Come on...

I can list other reasons....

I thought Barry also had access to the Speed Force? In any case, I figured DC already had enough speedsters with Superman and Wonder Woman, didnt want to make the fight too lopsided.

To play devil's advocated: True Captain Atom can pump up Superman (although 10 minutes isnt that much), but then SS could suck it back out since he has cosmic awareness and would know this is what's powering him. SS might also simply produce his own Red Sun or Kryptonite radiation, which would affect ALL the Kryptonians. SS can also try to drain the lanterns, but that would take time and they surely wont stand around and let him.

Has it been shown that Hulk/She-Hulk's gamma energy source can be drained? My understanding is that this comes from some other dimension or whatever and wouldnt therefore be "drained out", since they dont store it like a battery.

True team DC has powerhouses, but team Marvel has their own: SS, Nova, Hulk, Black Bolt, Sentry, Iceman, Hercules, Human Torch, Ghost Rider, Namor, Wonder Man, She-Hulk, Rogue.

#22 Edited by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC.

#23 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

Ofcourse he has access to teh speed force. But, that doesn't mean he can do everything.

True Captain Atom can pump up Superman (although 10 minutes isnt that much), but then SS could suck it back out since he has cosmic awareness and would know this is what's powering him.

Well, my point of saying that was because Captain Atom can feed off the radiations DURING the fight and Superman can literally fly into the sun and stay there for 10 minutes. I also Captain Atom can amplify the radtiation also. And I don't think SS like instantly sucks up all teh radiation so quick because Superman is being exposed to constant radiation and it would be a lot to take while it would be easier to give.

SS might also simply produce his own Red Sun or Kryptonite radiation, which would affect ALL the Kryptonians. SS can also try to drain the lanterns, but that would take time and they surely wont stand around and let him.

Well just because he has cosmic awareness doesn't mean he has "Multiversal Awareness"(Got this concept off of someone else a while back). You see, in Marvel there's no such thing as kryptonite so SS knows nothing about it. He's never seen or sensed kkyptonite so how can he know about it? Same goes for the red sun.While the only point you can make is energy absorbtion that still takes a while while sun dipping is instant.

SS vs 10 Min of sundipping+Sun radiation DURING the fight+Plus Captain Atom sharing energy.

Has it been shown that Hulk/She-Hulk's gamma energy source can be drained? My understanding is that this comes from some other dimension or whatever and wouldnt therefore be "drained out", since they dont store it like a battery.

Yes Hulks radiation can be drained. If that was the case he could never be cured. And remember he let off so much Gamma Radiation against Sentry that he returned back to human? Where has it stated he can't be drained? Gamma Radiation actually comes from teh sun and it's in our world...and technically DC. Radiation is radiation and Captain Atom absorbs radiation.

True team DC has powerhouses, but team Marvel has their own: SS, Nova, Hulk, Black Bolt, Sentry, Iceman, Hercules, Human Torch, Ghost Rider, Namor, Wonder Man, She-Hulk, Rogue.

Hulk is out, She-Hulk is out, Ice-Man can be melted lol,

Black Bolt screams still travel at the speed of sound which about everyone on DC is faster than and I don't think it would effect plastic and elongated man. Someone punches the guy in the mouth lmao. Sentry isn't all that strong unless he's void. Keep in mind Superman is being fed so much radiation so he couldn't take everybody out easily within the first few seconds. And you have to realize the fact that Superman is actually only a few feet near his radiation source(Captain Atom) and you can't forget about Supergirl.

#24 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you're relying too much on this argument that Atom can pump up Superman during the battle. For one thing, I've never even seen that happen in any battle in the comics. Maybe it happened, so feel free to prove me wrong with scans or anything. Since the fight is in-character, it seems somewhat unrealistic that they'd all of a sudden start doing things they've never done before. But another thing is that during the battle Captain Atom will likely be busy with his own fight. Odds are that he and SS will go at it. SS is more powerful, which means that he'll have to use his full concentration and even get help from Firestorm if they hope to hold of the Surfer.

#25 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: He's like the next best thing next to Flash on JLA. I don't think it's ever happened but it could happen since he can emit any radiation including the suns while Superman is powered by the suns radiation. There's not reason not to believe it wont happen.

But since I know it's morals on now fair enough.

  • Firestorm and Captain Atom would take surfer down. Doesn't seem like much of a fair fight to me.
  • I already said MM with Aquaman would take Prof. X down and MM can do ti by himself but Aquaman just to speed things up
  • MM can still sense hulks anger and calm him and she-hulk down so their still out without energy absorbtion.

So as for DC women, they stomp Marvels women no questions asked.

Supergirl, Wonderwoman, Powergirl, Hawkgirl, Black Canary, Fire, and that other girl(don't even know her lol) would absolutely positively beat she-Hulk, Rouge, Black Widow, Invisible Woman, Spidergirl and the rest of the girls on Marvels team would seriously get smacked around sooooo bad it's not even funny. But it doesn't have to be woman vs woman I'm just pointing out that they would lose pretty bad.

And do you know what FOUR Green Lanterns is and them being some of the most pwerful? They can create sheilds, OTHER RINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN USE SINCE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCE, extra TP help, etc....

Who's Marvels top 5 most powerful characters to you in this battle? Or top 10

#26 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

  • MM can still sense hulks anger and calm him and she-hulk down so their still out without energy absorbtion.

Not sure that would work since TP doesnt seem to affect Hulk very much. I think Prof X tried to calm Hulk down during World War Hulk and it didnt work.

I really doubt they'll be making rings for the others to use. For one thing you cant just use a ring unless you have the right level of will power, and even then it takes a lot of training. Also, Lanterns dont normally do that even in big serious battles. So, not going to happen.

Granted I dont know all the characters on there, but probably these:

  • Silver Surfer
  • Sentry
  • Nova
  • Ghost Rider
  • Hercules
  • Hulk
  • Iceman
  • Rogue
  • Black Bolt
  • Wonder Man

And then you have others that can do a lot of damage like Invisible Woman, Iron Man, She-Hulk, Human Torch. I'm not familiar with Invincible, but he seems pretty powerful.

#27 Posted by dondave (37477 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Thanos used TP on Hulk during Avengers Assemble just fine

#28 Posted by dondave (37477 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32 said:

DC. But, I don't see why you took out Flash though. he doesn't have an IMP, isn't as fast as Wally(That's Barry is you didn't know), can't speed steal....

  • Captain Atom feeds Superman suns radiations making this a slaughter bath in DC's favour. Senses Hulks/She Hulks gamma radiation and takes it away.
  • Aquaman and Martian Manhunter can double team Prof X and mind rape him. Though I'm pretty sure Martian Manhunter would still win by himself. I just added in Martian Manhunter so people wont be able to come up with much of an arguement.
  • 4 of some of the most powerful Green Lanterns? Come on...

I can list other reasons....

I thought Barry also had access to the Speed Force? In any case, I figured DC already had enough speedsters with Superman and Wonder Woman, didnt want to make the fight too lopsided.

To play devil's advocated: True Captain Atom can pump up Superman (although 10 minutes isnt that much), but then SS could suck it back out since he has cosmic awareness and would know this is what's powering him. SS might also simply produce his own Red Sun or Kryptonite radiation, which would affect ALL the Kryptonians. SS can also try to drain the lanterns, but that would take time and they surely wont stand around and let him.

Has it been shown that Hulk/She-Hulk's gamma energy source can be drained? My understanding is that this comes from some other dimension or whatever and wouldnt therefore be "drained out", since they dont store it like a battery.

True team DC has powerhouses, but team Marvel has their own: SS, Nova, Hulk, Black Bolt, Sentry, Iceman, Hercules, Human Torch, Ghost Rider, Namor, Wonder Man, She-Hulk, Rogue.

Silver Surfer has drained the Hulk before

#29 Edited by Blacharrt1 (751 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel still has two very powerful Magic users even if you take out Dr. Strange, Sister Grimm and Wiccan are still there. I think Marvel may have an unfair advantage, now that you have taken out Fate, and Zatanna, whom were kinda outmatch from the start anyway. Cloak can BFR a lot of people at once with little effort. Sentry and Silver Surfer, Matter manipulation trumps Firestorms and Captain Atom, Both are also high level telepaths, however adding Mister Miracle to this mix, might make it even. But I believe Firestorm would be taken out effortlessly. You also have Bobby whom can slow molecules to absolute zero, in little to no time. With DC having no real magic user's the Super family would be preoccupied with Ghost Rider, whom none of them could put down, and there are a lot of people on the DC list who would be very susceptible to the Penance Stare. Then you add the Hulk, Captain Britain, Wonderman, She-Hulk, Nova, Thing, Luke Cage, and Speedball, possibly Wevewolf by night. Martian Manhunter could be easily over taken with Professor X and BlackBolt, which leaves the DC team susceptible to Psychic attack. Aquaman would be easily overtaken by Namor and Namorita.

As far as prep you have some very high level prep masters for marvel, Reed, Banner, Black Panther, Nick Fury, Tony Stark, Worldmind, Cyclops, NightThrasher, I would even throw Charles X in that hat.

DC has Ted (blue beetle), Batman, Mr. Miracles with Motherbox, possibly elongated man, and metamorpho... Although i'm not really sure of actually how good they are with prep, or if they are just intelligent enough to help batman and ted. If Mr. Terrific was on the roster he would have been a great plus.

I think that with both teams, it would be very easy to get the resources they need to do whatever they needed within 10 minutes. on DC: Firestorm and Captain Adam should be able to provide them with whatever materials. On Marvel side: Silver Surfer, Sentry, BP, Black Bolt, Cloak could all pull this off, rather easily as well.

Also Surfer can stop or manipulate time. I'm not sure if Atom is able to do this in the same degree.

Dc: Has about 5 street levelers (I didn't count hawkgirl or Hawkman), Marvel has about 15, which undoubtedly means that the DC street levers would be wiped out rather quickly. However this always mean that DC has more muscle elsewhere. Microbe, is a very interesting factor, because he could manipulate viruses and germ internally. This too could give them the edge, especially if he works together with Invisible Woman. Spider man & SpiderWoman can take on cosmic beings, Black Cat has luck powers, Punisher with prep can be a pretty big badass. Wolverine and Deadpool can tank pretty much anything. Captain America, Black Widow, and Patriot can also handle themselves against super powered foes. Hawkeye would be outclassed, Daredevil would be outclassed too. IronFist could hold his own. Moonknight can also hold his own. As well as Dagger with her illusion inducing daggers.

@willpayton:

You stated that they wouldn't be able to get information via cosmic awareness or magic, but you neglected to put via the astral plane. You probably should put that on the list because if they can, Professor X, Black Bolt, Sentry, and Silver Surfer, can still gain a lot of knowledge from them rather quickly.

#30 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton:

You stated that they wouldn't be able to get information via cosmic awareness or magic, but you neglected to put via the astral plane. You probably should put that on the list because if they can, Professor X, Black Bolt, Sentry, and Silver Surfer, can still gain a lot of knowledge from them rather quickly.

The rules say "They have no way to gain any information about the other team until the 10 minutes are up", which means just that, "no way".

#31 Posted by Wardemon32 (4152 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Whos the two guys next to nightwing in the back and the lady behind black canary?

#32 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@wardemon32: Metamorpho and Cyborg are next to Night wing and Donna Troy is behind Black Canary

#33 Posted by vintage_spiderman (1301 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#34 Posted by dondave (37477 posts) - - Show Bio

DC Stomps

#35 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (55 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see anyone who would be a huge threat to SS honestly so I say Marvel.

#36 Posted by WillPayton (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see anyone who would be a huge threat to SS honestly so I say Marvel.

Captain Atom

Martian Manhunter

Firestorm

4 Green Lanterns

Several Kryptonians

Captain Marvel

#37 Posted by deaditegonzo (3686 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC with a heavy advantage morals on.

Morals off, Silver Surfer definitely becomes a monster, so in that scenario I give DC a slight edge.

#38 Posted by Cosmic_Lantern (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: Didnt even see the other lanterns in the back, but the power cosmic is greater. He's faster than all of them also and has the same durability as superman if not greater, hes tanked planet buster attacks along with super novas. Not really familiar with Classic CA but if it's the one that created a universe then DC wins.

#39 Posted by reaverlation (15907 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC