@tparks: Well still they took on bigger threats than her.And i dont think Star Lord goes down as fast as people say IF he even goes down-KO/death.
They sure have. Star-Lord is definitely the weakest of the team as far as power levels, but his cunning could be the team's saving grace. His out of the box thinking mixed with Rocket's high level intelligence makes his whole team around him that much more dangerous. While he won't be directly contributing really anything to this battle, indirectly he is a factor to consider.
@tparks: Well still they took on bigger threats than her.And i dont think Star Lord goes down as fast as people say IF he even goes down-KO/death.
They sure have. Star-Lord is definitely the weakest of the team as far as power levels, but his cunning could be the team's saving grace. His out of the box thinking mixed with Rocket's high level intelligence makes his whole team around him that much more dangerous. While he won't be directly contributing really anything to this battle, indirectly he is a factor to consider.
What prevents Diana from downright blitzing star lord and rocket raccoon from the get go? She has the speed to tag foes exponentially faster in contrast.
@tparks: Of course his weapons are nothing to scoff at. And giving them prep is just like asking Diana to bend over, take it in the rear and then roll over and die. Especially since it'd allow Peter to hop back to the moon, pick up the Mandalay Gem where he dropped it, then come back up and pretty much solo Wonder Woman by himself.
Either that thing was absurdly hax to allow him to hurt Thanos, or the writer had no idea how tough Thanos really is. I get the feeling Thanos was more or less playing with him. And if not, then how in the hell was the Mandalay Gem so ridiculously overpowered to the point it was a threat to Thanos?
@lowlaville: Gamora and Groot might have something to say about that, who have both fought characters with Diana's speed, and could intercept Wonder Woman before she gets a chance to speed blitz.
Also, there's no guarantee that Rocket would be taken out by a speed blitz. He's been hit by characters as strong as Wonder Woman and simply got up with no damage to him. This is not extreme situations either, this has been consistent for Rocket for his entirety with Marvel. He doesn't have raccoon level physicals, he has extremely high superhuman durability. This is assuming that she doesn't lead with a sword or something, which would be pretty out of character for Wonder Woman to speed blitz what she would think is a raccoon with a sword.
Also, why would Wonder Woman, who knows nothing about this team, target the human looking male and the small raccoon first, when there is a hulking green dude, a green lady who she should recognize as a warrior of her own caliber, and a gigantic tree?
@tparks: Of course his weapons are nothing to scoff at. And giving them prep is just like asking Diana to bend over, take it in the rear and then roll over and die. Especially since it'd allow Peter to hop back to the moon, pick up the Mandalay Gem where he dropped it, then come back up and pretty much solo Wonder Woman by himself.
Either that thing was absurdly hax to allow him to hurt Thanos, or the writer had no idea how tough Thanos really is. I get the feeling Thanos was more or less playing with him. And if not, then how in the hell was the Mandalay Gem so ridiculously overpowered to the point it was a threat to Thanos?
I think it actually is supposed to be that strong, because the Star-Lord ongoing is supposed to focus on him treasure hunting artifacts with this kind of power. His new direction is supposed to show that he just has a knack for getting his hands on legendary cosmic artifacts. I'm sure we will see him go uber Star-Lord during the Black Vortex arc with some crazy new power item too.
@tparks: I just find it a bit inconsistent. A blast from a Cosmic Cube only temporarily stunned Thanos without doing damage, while this gem allowed Starlord to bloody up Thanos and threaten his life. Lord Mar-Vell, who could've killed the Surfer, Quasar, Gladiator, Ronan and I think Bill, all in one shot, was rather easily repelled by Thanos. But yet this gem made Thanos look weak by comparison.
It just doesn't make much sense. Sure the gem is Celestial in Origin, but Thanos has made tech that outstrips Galactus and makes cosmic abstracts worried. It just makes me think a bit of Bendis' "Avengers Assemble" where he just turned Thanos in a punching bag. I'm just hoping this isn't going the same route.
@tparks: Well still they took on bigger threats than her.And i dont think Star Lord goes down as fast as people say IF he even goes down-KO/death.
They sure have. Star-Lord is definitely the weakest of the team as far as power levels, but his cunning could be the team's saving grace. His out of the box thinking mixed with Rocket's high level intelligence makes his whole team around him that much more dangerous. While he won't be directly contributing really anything to this battle, indirectly he is a factor to consider.
What prevents Diana from downright blitzing star lord and rocket raccoon from the get go? She has the speed to tag foes exponentially faster in contrast.
Most people siding with the team seem to being hoping
That Diana doesn't use her speed in a situation where she would definitely use her speed as she's outnumbered.
Will use her speed at a comfortable level for the team to be able to make contact with her, which makes no sense.
The team of which no one has comparable physicals will be able to handle a blow from Diana.
Seem to believe that Gamora's skill will allow her to compete with someone who is clearly her superior.
Diana will restrict herself to merely trying to beat her opponents without truly hurting them while the team goes for the kill.
That Star-Lord and Rocket Raccoon pose a threat without prep and that their guns will somehow be the downfall of someone whose whole shtick is deflecting bullets, lasers, etc.
Diana could literally cave in their heads with a flick of her finger. If this was Superman, Shazam or Black Adam people would call this a stomp, but for some reason refuse to realize this is still a stomp when Diana is thrown into the mix. The team has no hope of winning in this setting with no prep. None of them have the stats and only one has the versatility (Groot) and he's not going to save the day. Furthermore with her God of War powers she literally has control over Gamora, Star Lord and Rocket Raccoon.
@lowlaville: Gamora and Groot might have something to say about that, who have both fought characters with Diana's speed, and could intercept Wonder Woman before she gets a chance to speed blitz.
Also, there's no guarantee that Rocket would be taken out by a speed blitz. He's been hit by characters as strong as Wonder Woman and simply got up with no damage to him. This is not extreme situations either, this has been consistent for Rocket for his entirety with Marvel. He doesn't have raccoon level physicals, he has extremely high superhuman durability.
Also, why would Wonder Woman, who knows nothing about this team, target the human looking male and the small raccoon first, when there is a hulking green dude, a green lady who she should recognize as a warrior of her own caliber, and a gigantic tree?
Easy pickings? Remember, Diana is a warrior princess, a god of war, there is no one better at battle tactics currently in DC. She is not stupid enough to not target the human and the raccoon first. Arguably, she is better or evenly skilled on the level of Gamora.
Gamora's edge over most of her foes comes from her own skill despite the physical differences. Diana has a say in that regard. She is not any less skilled. And if Gamora takes her for just another hulking female, she is going to pay it for with a blow she has no feats of stopping or defending against.
I doubt Gamora can paralyze Diana. She is a god as it is. And as a god, she is resistant if not immune to many of mortal ailments, such as TP, diseases, viruses, magic and reality warping. I doubt Gamora can strike the nerve of a god. Taking down Gamora without using her own arsenal of weapons will be hard for Diana. So she would use her sword, that can split atoms (and also survived nukes) to kill Gamora.
As for taking on metahumans, Diana has dealt with parademon class fodder and tauras (with peak human stats) and centaurs who could at least throw around cars. And she's cut right through them without difficulty.
And, I doubt any of the guardians faced anyone with quite the speed as Wonder Woman, Superman, Flash or Cheetah for the matter.
@tparks: Well still they took on bigger threats than her.And i dont think Star Lord goes down as fast as people say IF he even goes down-KO/death.
They sure have. Star-Lord is definitely the weakest of the team as far as power levels, but his cunning could be the team's saving grace. His out of the box thinking mixed with Rocket's high level intelligence makes his whole team around him that much more dangerous. While he won't be directly contributing really anything to this battle, indirectly he is a factor to consider.
What prevents Diana from downright blitzing star lord and rocket raccoon from the get go? She has the speed to tag foes exponentially faster in contrast.
Most people siding with the team seem to being hoping
That Diana doesn't use her speed in a situation where she would definitely use her speed as she's outnumbered.
Will use her speed at a comfortable level for the team to be able to make contact with her, which makes no sense.
The team of which no one has comparable physicals will be able to handle a blow from Diana.
Seem to believe that Gamora's skill will allow her to compete with someone who is clearly her superior.
Diana will restrict herself to merely trying to beat her opponents without truly hurting them while the team goes for the kill.
That Star-Lord and Rocket Raccoon pose a threat without prep and that they're guns will somehow be the downfall of someone whose whole shtick is deflecting bullets, lasers, etc.
Diana could literally cave in their heads with a flick of her finger. If this was Superman, Shazam or Black Adam people would call this a stomp, but for some reason refuse to realize this is still a stomp when Diana is thrown into the mix. The team has no hope of winning in this setting with no prep. None of them have the stats and only one has the versatility (Groot) and he's not going to save the day. Furthermore with her God of War powers she literally has control over Gamora, Star Lord and Rocket Raccoon.
Yeah... Diana actually does go for the kill in N52. Like she killed firstborn without mercy. Like Drawing blood from leaguers like Hal, Superman and Aquaman without hesitation. Like blinding Darkseid. Like killing Ares. Like sucker punching Orion. Like almost killing Artemis, twice! The list goes on.
N52 Diana is hotblooded and has rarely held back in a fight, which was against Superdoom, but only because she cared for him.
The fact almost everyone in this thread didn't know she had telepathy pretty much proves people are basing their arguments on how powerful they think she "should" be.
@lowlaville: @zhurong: Call me when Wonder Woman is bench pressing planets, stomping Doomsday (who broke Diana's arms), resisting black holes, and moving multiple times the speed of light. He has better quantifiable feats all around the board. Diana still wins, though. Her only major issue is actually putting down Groot. It doesn't the GotG, considering they've been less impressive than they used to be, too.
@tparks: Thanos is generally consistent. Just seems when someone who doesn't write in the same corner involving him, they tend to screw up in a big way and we end up having a retcon to fix the bad writing that went on. Thanos was rather consistent for a good long while. I mean we had Infinity Abyss, "The End", Thanos Quest, then the whole big Annihilation series onto Thanos Imperative and Thanos had been done quite consistently through and through.
Even with his Prequel back story "Rise of Thanos" and "Infinity", Thanos' portrayals were very spot on and amazingly done. But when we hit the Starlord series and Thanos turns into a ponce with all the toughness of an overripe tomato. It makes me feel like someone missed the last ten years in Marvel.
@zhurong: Except Nu52 Superman absolutely dwarfs Nu52 Diana in feats.
It'll agree with tat and most of the blame rests with her solo run as the writer imo did a s****y job. However with that said Superman and Wonder Woman both have ways of winning which are unique to the such as Superman's eat vision and ice breath and Wonder Woman's God of War powers. Furthermore while her own title may have dropped the ball majorly on portraying her anywhere close to her Pre 52 self her interactions with Superman, Supergirl, Zod, Faora, Green Lantern, etc have all shown that she's a force to be reckoned with and hasn't lost her place in the DC hierarchy.
Yeah... Diana actually does go for the kill in N52. Like she killed firstborn without mercy. Like Drawing blood from leaguers like Hal, Superman and Aquaman without hesitation. Like blinding Darkseid. Like killing Ares. Like sucker punching Orion. Like almost killing Artemis, twice! The list goes on.
N52 Diana is hotblooded and has rarely held back in a fight, which was against Superdoom, but only because she cared for him.
Exactly. You have a green chick, a tree, raccoon and a hulking menace all of which screams kill it and kill it with fire.
@pokeysteve: Since no one else is chiming in here, I want to back you up that those are obviously worthwhile scans. They don't necessarily seal the deal, but they're solid. And she has done the bracer-blocking thing many other times in New 52 in addition to this example. She's extremely fast and accurate.
I think more scans of New 52 Diana would help here in general. I read the first 20 issues or so but didn't both to make scans, and the respect thread is like 36 pages, so I'll leave that up to others.
I love how people are saying classic Drax would beat her. Classic Drax? As in his 70s incarnation? I love classic Drax but no way is he beating her. I think people think his Power Gem version was his first version or something.
Anyway, new 52 Diana does have each of the Guardians outclassed individually but, assuming no initial speed blitz, she'd have to take some time to beat them all individually, and that could give the Guardians the time to take her down. Fighting just, say, Drax and Gamora would take a while. The fact that she way outclasses Drax in skill, and Gamora in physicals, doesn't help much when she has to deal with both threats at once. Add in Groot, with Rocket and Star-Lord sniping from mid-range, and she'll have her hands full.
That said, new 52 Diana is a fast and skilled badass with some good weapons and if she can still access her full power by taking off her bracers, she's a serious force to be reckoned with.
@zhurong: Wasn't Superman weakened during the Zod fight? I can't remember much about it, so I may be off. And I'm still content on Superman absolutely dwarfing her on quantifiable feats.
One on one Wonder Woman can take down each member. Groot and Gammora are the only two that can give her a fight. All at once thought there is just too much firepower. By the way I hate this incarnation of the Guardians. The movie was awesome though.
@tparks: Thanos is generally consistent. Just seems when someone who doesn't write in the same corner involving him, they tend to screw up in a big way and we end up having a retcon to fix the bad writing that went on. Thanos was rather consistent for a good long while. I mean we had Infinity Abyss, "The End", Thanos Quest, then the whole big Annihilation series onto Thanos Imperative and Thanos had been done quite consistently through and through.
Even with his Prequel back story "Rise of Thanos" and "Infinity", Thanos' portrayals were very spot on and amazingly done. But when we hit the Starlord series and Thanos turns into a ponce with all the toughness of an overripe tomato. It makes me feel like someone missed the last ten years in Marvel.
@tparks: Well still they took on bigger threats than her.And i dont think Star Lord goes down as fast as people say IF he even goes down-KO/death.
They sure have. Star-Lord is definitely the weakest of the team as far as power levels, but his cunning could be the team's saving grace. His out of the box thinking mixed with Rocket's high level intelligence makes his whole team around him that much more dangerous. While he won't be directly contributing really anything to this battle, indirectly he is a factor to consider.
What prevents Diana from downright blitzing star lord and rocket raccoon from the get go? She has the speed to tag foes exponentially faster in contrast.
Most people siding with the team seem to being hoping
That Diana doesn't use her speed in a situation where she would definitely use her speed as she's outnumbered.
Will use her speed at a comfortable level for the team to be able to make contact with her, which makes no sense.
The team of which no one has comparable physicals will be able to handle a blow from Diana.
Seem to believe that Gamora's skill will allow her to compete with someone who is clearly her superior.
Diana will restrict herself to merely trying to beat her opponents without truly hurting them while the team goes for the kill.
That Star-Lord and Rocket Raccoon pose a threat without prep and that they're guns will somehow be the downfall of someone whose whole shtick is deflecting bullets, lasers, etc.
Diana could literally cave in their heads with a flick of her finger. If this was Superman, Shazam or Black Adam people would call this a stomp, but for some reason refuse to realize this is still a stomp when Diana is thrown into the mix. The team has no hope of winning in this setting with no prep. None of them have the stats and only one has the versatility (Groot) and he's not going to save the day.
A lot of people are making some of those claims, but I am not one of them. I think Diana will be using her speed. I don't see why she wouldn't. That doesn't mean I necessarily think the Guardians lose either, because people really underestimate Gamora and Groot's insane skill.
Take a look at the spoiler block, and you will see that classic Drax really is quite superior to even Diana. I bring this up, not because I consider classic Drax in this fight, but because Gamora has fought and held her own against Classic Drax on two separate occasions.
Drax destroys a planet and a star.Drax destroys another planetDrax speed blitzes Silver SurferDrax has the strength to hold Surfer back by his boardDrax punch is enough to change the course of an amped Silver Surfer
So classic Drax is clearly faster and more powerful the Diana, yet Gamora is able to hold her own against this powerhouse. I wish I had access to those scans, but I don't have the on me right now, But Gamora has fought with a character with these level of feats.
But that's not all she's fought, she's fought an entire horde of Monsters of Badoon for an entire day! The Monster of Badoon was not even a little phased by Thing's strongest punch.
While Thing is no Wonder Woman, it still shows that the Thing would need to punch hundreds, if not thousands of times harder to actually do some damage. Here's what happens when MoB returns the favor.
A one hit KO on Thing. While Thing may not be a powerhouse of Diana's caliber, he still is able to tank punches from Hulk without being KO'd, yet MoB is able to put him down with just one.
MoB isn't some slow poke either like you'd expect from a tank like him.
Look at what Surfer says. "Had I been a microsecond Slower...He would have found his quarry!". MoB was a microsecond away from speedblitzing Surfer.
So MoB is a serious powerhouse with insane speed, yet look what Gamora can do.
Gallery
She fights a whole horde of these creatures for an entire day on her own, then Angela shows up and they go on to kill all of them. This is a feat that puts her worthy of Diana's attention.
Gamora isn't the only one to tango with these bad boys though. Groot took on the same MoB that KO'd Thing and fought Surfer, AFTER MoB got an enhancement.
Gallery
Groot is clearly manhandling MoB. It's no contest even. This is how the fight ends.
Groot punches his head off! This is a complete stomp against a character with speed a microsecond slower then what it takes to speed blitz surfer.
As far as your concerns about tanking damage, I can provide a whole host of feats for Groot, and I can even supply a lot for Rocket. Yes, Rocket has tanked blows from characters with Diana's strength. This is not an unusual feat for Rocket either, this is the norm. If you don't believe me, I can show it. I'm not saying that Rocket will tank her sword, or that he will tank repeated blows, but I do believe he will tank a punch from her, as he has been hit by characters like Gladiator and Starhawk, and been shot by his own 5-barreled cannon and was completely fine after all of them.
The one bullet point about the team going for the kill, I absolutely do agree with that one. Rocket is basically moral-less. He nearly killed Sam Alexander just for calling him a raccoon before Gamora stopped him. All of the team has no problems with killing anyone, in fact they all seem to enjoy it quite a bit. Maybe Star-Lord not as much, but the rest actually have fun while they're killing.
I do disagree that Star-Lord's element gun will do anything. Since it's retcon, it really hasn't done anything besides shoot fodder, so I can't say that it will really do anything here. Rocket's gun may not one-shot her, but it will definitely not feel good, and will keep her on her toes. He's shot a high speed Sam Alexander before, who may not be Rich Rider, but definitely has the speed to use the name Human Rocket, so he has the accuracy to hit someone as fast as Wonder Woman too. His guns will actually play a pretty big role in keeping Wonder Woman on the defensive and wearing her down until Groot can deliver the home run shot FTW.
Even after saying all of this, I want to say that I actually voted too close to call. Wonder Woman really is more powerful then any single member of the Guardians. With all of them together though, they do have a shot at it.
@zhurong: Wasn't Superman weakened during the Zod fight? I can't remember much about it, so I may be off. And I'm still content on Superman absolutely dwarfing her on quantifiable feats.
Weakened how exactly? Apart from Zod and Faora having an issue long sundip (indirect), Superman suffered none that I remember of. That was a healthy Superman slowing down Diana.
@tparks: Thanos is generally consistent. Just seems when someone who doesn't write in the same corner involving him, they tend to screw up in a big way and we end up having a retcon to fix the bad writing that went on. Thanos was rather consistent for a good long while. I mean we had Infinity Abyss, "The End", Thanos Quest, then the whole big Annihilation series onto Thanos Imperative and Thanos had been done quite consistently through and through.
Even with his Prequel back story "Rise of Thanos" and "Infinity", Thanos' portrayals were very spot on and amazingly done. But when we hit the Starlord series and Thanos turns into a ponce with all the toughness of an overripe tomato. It makes me feel like someone missed the last ten years in Marvel.
The starlord series is written by Bendis?
No. Sam Humphries. He's done a pretty good job with it so far. The real star of the book is the art though, not so much the story. Medina is killing it in the ongoing.
@jashro44: No. Bendis did "Avengers Assemble". Which was so bad that everyone hated it. "Legendary Star-Lord" is done by Sam Humphries to start, then Freddie Williams. Freddie did the Thanos fight with Star-Lord. Freddie seems to do a lot of stuff for DC comics. I guess that's where his poor knowledge of Thanos comes from.
@lowlaville: That's why I was asking; my memory was spotty on that instance.
If you consider holding back a weakness, Superman had an issue with having to fight a couple of Kryptonions where the opposing due had none of those issues. But seriously that does not explain Superman getting beaten like fodder.
Gamora and Groot are MvP's ... but let's face it, Gamora is a poor man's Diana, and Groot cannot match WW's armaments, speed and skill.
Draax, had he not been powered down, could have been a real threat as well as he was Hulk level strength and power back in the day, and used to mix it up with the best of the cosmic baddies. Those days are gone and Diana should walk through his present incarnation without too much trouble.
@tparks: This is the latest incarnations of the guardians in Marvel now. So classic drax being able to beat Diana is a moot point...
I never brought up Classic Drax beating Diana. I was using him as an example of a character that Gamora has fought, who has power levels above Diana. Gamora has fought classic Drax twice, and held her own. I just don't have the scans on me of those fights and am feeling too lazy to dig through my old stuff and make some new ones of those fights.
@tparks: This is the latest incarnations of the guardians in Marvel now. So classic drax being able to beat Diana is a moot point...
I never brought up Classic Drax beating Diana. I was using him as an example of a character that Gamora has fought. Gamora has fought classic Drax twice, and held her own.
Drax don't have those power levels now, and the fight would not be considered canon. Note: I have little to no Marvel knowledge except what I've seen people state. So forgive me if I make faulty assumptions.
@evil_incarnate: Don't worry, Finch has stated in a interview that she is working on putting her next to Superman.
I couldn't careless about putting her next to Superman. They need to carve out a lane for her. She has the recognition and title of being female superhero numero uno, but they've put her on the back burner and have made her more of a common face in a never ending sea of penises. This has led to her lack of respect and for her not to have any real solo success with movies, games. tv shows. I think many writers get stuck on a holier than thou sort of archetype for her character, which to me has never made sense. I do understand her whole premise of being about peace and love and all that jazz, but you literally have a mythological Amazonian warrior with gifts of the gods and thy can't write a decent story around this? That Azz run was nearly the last straw with me and I tried like hell with that. I accepted the rudimentary and crude cave like drawings because I assumed that he was trying to have her taken seriously without just being gawked over as some hottie in star-bangled bikini and have readers focus on what would be compelling and amazing storytelling, but it wasn't. I've learned no more about Diana than she's just some bastard child of Zeus and a weak mother and I know far more about Zola, First Born and lot than I'd care to and yet we really know nothing at all about them. It was a huge waste of time and came of more like horrible fan fiction rather than something that's to be part of continuity. This hack cut and ugly scar on her legacy that'll take retcon after retcon to heal. SMH...
@lowlaville: All of Drax's feats are canon, and Gamora fought Drax when he had all of his powers. When Drax first became Drax, he had the powers shown in the scans I was referring too. He later became dumb Drax, who became even more powerful, but had almost no intelligence. Then he died, and was resurrected because Thanos was also back, because the whole purpose of Drax is to kill Thanos, and he lost most of his powers besides a bit of superhuman stats, and the ability to kill Thanos. He killed Thanos, then lost the ability to kill Thanos even if Thanos returns (which he does), and is just your typical enhanced stats character.
GotG wins because of Gamora who was skilled enough in martial arts to impress Thanos not to mention, she has taken down an army (with tanks) with close range combat alone and has one-shotted Thing and She-Hulk at once. Hell, Thanos couldn't even touch her in a sparring match and he even commented that her pressure point strikes would waste a being inferior to himself. Give her the Godslayer and she won't even need her allies to stop Wonder Woman
Wonder Woman may appear as a superior opponent but she isn't going to last against a Marvel villain who is superior to a Galactus herald and has defeated Superman-level characters. And she's dealing with alien-weapon users so there's no shrugging attacks off (she did get killed by an Apokolips spear in Earth 2, after all).
All in all, the Guardians win with "casualties".
Faulty ABC logic. Current Gamora gets obliterated by any of Galactus's Heralds...
Thanos has never shown any particularly good skill feats, why does him being impressed matter at all here?
Gamora fighting tanks means nothing here... Starfire obliterates squadrons of tanks and she'd get slaughtered by Wonder Woman.
Thing and She-Hulk would lose to Wonder Woman in an instant...
She doesn't have a Godslayer, and her physicals are too low to even come close to matching Wonder Woman in a physical confrontation. Mostly in speed. Wonder Woman made Supergirl feel slow. Supergirl reacts to bullets so quickly that she individually melted a dozen at once so fast that it look like they hit a wall in mid-air...
You then bring up a version of Wonder Woman that's not even being used in this battle.
3/4th's of your feats aren't even applicable to Gamora here because it's only her LATEST incarnation in the recent Guardians of the Galaxy comic that's even allowed in this fight...
Guardians lose. Hard.
There's some problems with this post.
1. Yes Gamora would lose to a Galactus herald but so would Wonder Woman. AFAIK, she doesn't move FTL or has anything planet busting in the New 52.
2. Thanos has wrecked the Hulk, Thor, and almost every Galactus herald in close combat. The fact that he would be impressed by Gamora really says something.
3. Thing and She-Hulk would lose but Wonder Woman has been hurt by things below Class 100 strength. Hell, why does she block bullets and spears if they are just gonna bounce off her skin?
4. Earth 2 Wonder Woman should be about the same as Wonder Woman without her God of War status or even greater since she is older. Earth 2 Superman is supposed to be stronger than his Prime Earth counterpart.
5. If it hasn't been retconned, her old feats should be applicable to her current incarnation. She's not like Drax who actually lost his much of his powers before Annihilation and after Thanos Imperative due to Bendis's bad writing. Marvel hasn't gotten hit with a Flashpoint event.
1. You agree with me. Good.
2. Who cares, Thanos has never shown particularly good martial skill, so why should he opinion be a worthwhile accolade? Like a tank driver praising Bruce Lee for the speed of his kicks. Regardless, it's just a character statement. Doesn't prove a thing.
3. Wonder Woman has been hurt by opponents below class 100. Unfortunately, Bendis Gamora has no feats I can recall that show her as being able to life 20 tons... Wonder Woman's piercing/cutting durability is low but her concussive force durability is high. Her durability against energy projection shows a point blank nuke doesn't kill her.
4. Earth 2 Superman would lose in a Vine battle to normal Superman (stomp), normal Supergirl (stomp), and Power Girl (closer, but still an easy win.) Earth 2 Wonder Woman has so few feats I'd say she'd lose to solidly below average mid-tier Wonder Girl. So your comparison via Earth 2 counterparts is basically worthless.
Earth 2 Superman was stated to be superior to Action Comics Vol 1 Superman... as in Superman who didn't even know he could fly/got KO'd by a bullet train/felt pain from being electrocuted. The same was never said about current Superman.
5. The OP states that only the latest version feats of the Guardians of the Galaxy count (Bendis GotG). That's all that counts. Follow the OP or don't, that's up to you.
2. Thanos was the one who taught Gamora how to fight so.... yeah.
3. Bendis's Gamora is still Gamora from past versions. Drax and Starlord are in a different position since they lost abilities.
4. Based on what? Earth 2 Superman hasn't even shown anything inferior to the one on Prime Earth. Hell, a clone of him was trashing the entire "Justice Society" and would have killed Val if he wasn't deteriorating. Saying he would get stomped by the main continuity versions is just dumb.
5. Which applies to Drax (who was at herald level) and Starlord (who was like a prototype Nova). Gamora in the current run is still the same one that was in Starlin's stuff and DnA's. The only thing that should apply is the Godslayer which was destroyed.
2. Thanos has never displayed martial skill. So it is as if he didn't have any. That's exactly how vine battles work.
3. Doesn't matter, Bendis's portrayal is a weaker less durable Gamora. That's the version that's being used.
4. Based on feats. Earth 2 Superman is inferior because his feats are pathetic and near nonexistent. He was overwhelmed by a couple dozen parademons. Prime Earth Superman tore through parademons like they weren't even there. A you can't even prove Earth 2 Bizzarro had comparable physicals to Earth 2 Superman. Earth 2 Bizzarro also only beat Green Lantern by double teaming him. All his other feats are distinctly beneath Supergirl who is distinctly beneath Wonder Woman who is distinctly beneath Superman.
You might think saying he'd get crushed by Prime Earth Kryptonians is not dumb. There is no argument for him even being able to match them. I'm rather confident in this. To the point of being able to say that I'd CAV anyone on the site over it. New 52 Supergirl vs New 52 Earth 2 Superman. Supergirl wins no contest.
5. Again, follow the OP or don't it's up to you. Bendis GotG feats take precedence because the OP says so.
2. He doesn't really show any but that doesn't change the fact that he was the one who trained Gamora how to fight.
3. It's still the same Gamora so she does retain the same martial arts skills. Even in the motion comic preluding Bendis's GotG run, she takes on a group of alien mercenaries with ease. Her fighting ability has never been retconned. Unless she has suffered from bad writing or has been depowered, her past abilities should not be ignored.
4. By your logic, Superman Prime is inferior to pre-Flashpoint Superman because he has little feats. And I don't know what you read but Earth 2 had the clone easily beating Green Lantern and even Dr. Fate. No one stood a chance until he crumbled.
5. The thing is that the current Gamora hasn't been depowered at all unlike Drax.
2. This point is moot anyways. Even if I say it's true, it's not like it proves anything useful for this battle.
3. Featless alien mercs... I know the comic. The one where she jumps into the vat of molten stuffs? Fun comic. Not sure how it's a skill feat beyond street level though... Skill's not the problem anyways. Physicals are.
4. Superboy-Prime with the Guardian Amp has few feats, but consistently high feats. Earth 2 Superman has very few pathetic feats. Earth 2 Wonder Woman has basically ONE feat and it's pathetic. They are nowhere near equivalent to their Prime Earth counterparts.
5. Prove it. Show me in the Bendis run, or in any comic with an unamped Gamora, where it shows her physicals even come close to coming CLOSE New 52 Wonder Woman's.
2. Thanos training Gamora. She destroys a robot and this was a time before she was augmented to superhuman levels. Thanos may not show a whole lot of impressive martial arts skills but that doesn't change the fact that he has an impressive win record. Let's not forget that Thanos is smarter than Dr. Doom so impressing that guy is an accomplishment
3. Featless mercenaries? Are you seriously gonna lowball that? It doesn't change the fact that they are bipedal beings armed with alien weaponry.
4. Nothing proves that the Earth 2 counterparts are weaker than the Prime Earth versions except for Power Girl and Supergirl. Hell, even in the pre-Flashpoint continuity, the older Kara is arguably weaker than her younger counterpart.
5. By herself, Gamora isn't going to win but with the Guardians backing her up, she does have a chance.
She beats Ronan who is powerful enough to hang with herald-level characters.She dodges a beam from a Thanos clone proving she just fast reflexes as well.Even dodges beam attacks from the real Thanos himself, the same guy who has beaten down cosmic characters. It may be a sparring fight but he sure was using some lethal force there.She gives Maxam a beating. Just so you known, he's got a strength class past 100 tons.
2. Still has no bearing on this fight.
3. Still has no bearing on this fight. (Beating the mercs is a worse feat than Batman overcoming SWAT teams imo, because we at least generally know the stats of said SWAT members.)
4. Stop assuming E2's are even roughly equivalent to Prime's. It's ridiculous and shows your abject lack of knowledge about the feats of both sets of characters.
5. Prove it. All of them are ground bound or on clumsy jetpacks. Wonder Woman could lasso them and throw them into space... her physicals far outmatch them. Her sword makes them defenseless. Her bracer weapons could pick them off from a distance while flying at high speed. None of the Guardians have standard equipment weaponry that would bypass Wonder Woman's bracer deflections except for Starlord... But 3 of his 4 settings will be useless.
For the record, Ronan is slow and if he's not jobbing or getting rushed by Gamora he stomps her into the ground with ease. Thanos if he's not jobbing obliterates Gamora with ease, and has a long history of going easy on her. None of the feats you've shown is anything any streetleveler hasn't done a dozen times before. There are no speed statements, so the assumption is that she's aim dodging blasts which are also not stated to be lightspeed or even faster than bullets...
Enough with the old feats that the OP expressly says aren't what are to be focused on. Even more so, none of the feats display anything above streetlevel speed... Which is what Gamora needs BY FAR the most to actually utilize her skill.
Make an argument as to how the Guardians win, instead of vague statements that they would somehow get Wonder Woman because they, well, just would because they overwhelm her.
@tparks: When has Current Drax shown anything close to Classic levels? Enlighten me.
What does that have to do with anything in this fight? Current Drax is a mere fraction of his former self. I brought up classic Drax because Gamora has fought him twice and held her own against him, and Classic Drax has power levels that go beyond Wonder Woman.
@tparks: When has Current Drax shown anything close to Classic levels? Enlighten me.
What does that have to do with anything in this fight? Current Drax is a mere fraction of his former self. I brought up classic Drax because Gamora has fought him twice and held her own against him, and Classic Drax has power levels that go beyond Wonder Woman.
Better Question: Is classic Gamora current Gamora or what? Also, we are taking current feats... not old ones. so...
@lowlaville: Current Gamora is usually considered as having an upgrade at Annihilation, which came after her fight with Classic Drax, so if anything, she's even more of a threat currently. I also posted a feat of her taking on an entire horde of Monsters of Badoon by herself, who all have strength, speed, and durability similar to Diana's, and probably even more strength then her. That issue was only a few months ago. I can also post feats of her taking on Ronan, or even Terrax who is a Herald of Galactus one on one. It's not like I'm talking about stuff that's inconsistent just so I can say the Guardians can win, this is just Gamora as a character. She's always been this impressive, and always will be.
Also, why wouldn't all in-canon feats of these characters be allowed?
Who cares about Classic Drax? He's no longer at those levels so those showings are a moot point. This isn't "should, would, could" battle so please stop with the shoulda, woulda, coulda feats. Unless can I bring in classic feats from Wonder Woman when she was strong enough to pull the sun?
How old is that scan of the MoB and The Thing?
Gamora did mildly well before Angela showed up and even nearly admitted defeat before she did. Also where do you see any of the MoB's moving at speed that would then have you use that scan as a defense for her standing up to Wonder Woman?
Your final scan I see the whole team taking out these MoBs. They look like cannon fodder.
Between the fact that there was clearly quite a few decades between the Thing/Surfer showing and the current ones who's to say what power levels they're at? The very fact that something that was supposedly at least surfer level was easily handled by GOTG and Gamora and Angela should tell you something. Unless you're saying Gamora, Angela and the team are comparable to Surfer in speed.
Who cares about Classic Drax? He's no longer at those levels so those showings are a moot point. This isn't "should, would, could" battle so please stop with the shoulda, woulda, coulda feats. Unless can I bring in classic feats from Wonder Woman when she was strong enough to pull the sun?
I don't even know what you mean by shoulda, woulda, coulda. I'm not talking about classic Drax, I'm talking about Gamora taking on a character who is above Wonder Woman. This wouldn't be the only character she's taken on above Wonder Woman. Ronan the accuser. Terrax the Tamer who is a herald of Galactus.
How old is that scan of the MoB and The Thing?
One of the classic Guardians of the Galaxy comics from Marvel Teamup. Awesome issue. Also, I don't see why it matters how old it is. It's in canon. It happened.
Gamora did mildly well before Angela showed up and even nearly admitted defeat before she did. Also where do you see any of the MoB's moving at speed that would then have you use that scan as a defense for her standing up to Wonder Woman?
Mildly well? She fought for an entire day. Not just a few minutes. An entire day. She was never admitting defeat either. MoB's are quoted by Silver Surfer as being a microsecond too slow to speed blitz him. So do you think they are just slacking in this fight or something?
Your final scan I see the whole team taking out these MoBs. They look like cannon fodder.
What? That was only Angela and Gamora. I don't know where you got the idea that the whole team was here. The rest of the team were all scattered on opposite corners of the galaxy at this time.
If you want to actually have a debate, we can, but trying to discredit feats that are completely in canon and applicable to this battle is not necessary. Why not instead show Wonder Woman doing something more then Classic Drax or Monster of Badoon? If the only way we can justify Wonder Woman winning is discrediting everything the team has done with petty issues that don't hold water, maybe she just simply can't win. I know Wonder Woman has feats that can compare to these though, so why not talk about these, instead of just shooting down well thought out reasoning about comics you haven't read yet (which I took from you not knowing when the issue was, or that Gamora and Angela fought on their own). I haven't read much of Wonder Woman, but I haven't been finding minuscule flaws in her feats, instead I've brought what the Guardians have done that can rival those feats. I suggest you do the same, if you believe Diana can stand against these characters.
@termiteone4ever: Hmmmm, damn good Darkseid feat. Still doesnt counter any of my other strategies i posted a couple posts back.
Mini Groot Strategy
Distract/Disarm Strategy
Distract/Decapitate Strategy
These strategies and some more points are listed in my main argument a while back. I am too lazy to retype that wall of text, so you'll have to find it yourself. I might be able to copy it here.
@termiteone4ever: Hmmmm, damn good Darkseid feat. Still doesnt counter any of my other strategies i posted a couple posts back.
Mini Groot Strategy
Distract/Disarm Strategy
Distract/Decapitate Strategy
These strategies and some more points are listed in my main argument a while back. I am too lazy to retype that wall of text, so you'll have to find it yourself. I might be able to copy it here.
Mini Groot Strategy
Diana is not dumb. She will see through the stretegy. Plus she is the god of war. TP yo.
Distract/Disarm Strategy
Diana can summon her weapons in N52 using her gauntlet. Fail strategy.
Distract/Decapitate Strategy
You will find Diana to be hard to distract. She is a battle veteran, well versed in combat tactics. Unless you take her for a simple minded brute like Kara, she is not falling for an obvious ruse. Even sleeping, no one can sneak up on her, no one ever finds her unguarded. Except Superman, as Superdoom, he once caught her off-guard.
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