Battle of the Week: Spider-man VS Morals Off Captain America

This thread is the Battle of the Week for 6/2/2014 -- 6/9/2014.

Spider-Man

Captain America

Rules

• Spider-man is morals on
• Captain America is morals off
• Spider-man has web shooters and regular webbing
• Cap has standard gear
• Random Encounter
• Win by KO/Death/Incapacitation

Location

• Begin visible
• Begin 50 feet apart
• Fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

Cap. Peter generally hesitates to hit Cap.

Web incap

Web incap FTW

Pretty sure cap's adamantium claws would cut through spideys webs like a hot knife through butter.. Cap FTW... Death vibranium shield decapitates spidey.

Spiderman. He'll realize that Caps going for the kill and will web incap him.

Steve has a chance here(And will get a win or two), but Spider-Man should still get a solid majority.

Spider-man

Spidey still wins.

Peter

I give it to cap due to the conditions. Spidey will hold back too much vs cap.

He doesn't need to beat him in a punching contest. He can just tie Cap up with webs, without harming him in the slightest, rendering him incapacitated.

I picture Peter running away for most of the time and freaking out over why Cap is so angry, and then eventually he just webs him up.

@i_like_swords: he won't think of attacking cap with web off hand. First he will be wondering why the hell is cap attacking him. I think cap can cut through the webbing via the shield as Spidey throws it.

Yeah, maybe not at first, but that will be the inevitable outcome. There's no realistic scenario in which Cap can punch out and defeat Spidey even holding back, and once Peter realizes he can't talk Cap down, he needs only to web the shield to the floor, and then web up Cap.

How can a shield... cut through webbing? Unless you're suggesting Cap perfectly cuts and deflects every single piece of webbing coming his way using the edge of his shield.....

LMAO. this is honestly true.

This lol.

Picturing the fight in civil war and instead of Cap stopping at that nerve strike, he kills Peter.

They fought in civil war?

@those_eyes: Yes.

Shield to the face? Shield to the face.

YES! Spidey was wearing Iron Man's prototype armor for him. Cap however still got the upper hand as Cap was shown to be superior in CQB to Spidey here.

@vandersexxx said:

@those_eyes said:

@super_buck said:

Picturing the fight in civil war and instead of Cap stopping at that nerve strike, he kills Peter.

They fought in civil war?

YES! Spidey was wearing Iron Man's prototype armor for him. Cap however still got the upper hand as Cap was shown to be superior in CQB to Spidey here.

And Cap beat the pants of Iron Man and broke his armor apart. Let's not pretend Civil War, despite being entertaining, was not full of out-of-character and PIS moments.

D³

Haha, I can see this happening.

Peter

@super_buck: @those_eyes: @vandersexxx:

Here are the full scans:

Gallery

All though its true Peter had the iron spider-suit and the other he also was morally conflicted at the time due to siding with Tony. So I don't think he was really too focused.

To be fair Vision did deactivate iron mans armour which allowed him to crack it. All though I agree civil war had a lot of PIS.

Peter. The only way Cap could win is due to Peter's Hero Worship...but if Cap is legitimately trying to kill him...that's gonna make Peter wanna put him down fast. He'll probably think Cap's under mind control and that he has to do it before Cap does something he'll regret.

@jashro44: True enough, he still shouldn't have been able to break it though. But that was only one example, Civil War does have quite a bit of it.

Yea that I agree with for sure.

Damn, Civil War had great artwork

Still spider-man.

Except, you know, the scenario that already happened in the comics...

@force_echo: When was that exactly?

Civil war. I have the scans uploaded above. I would argue that Peter was morally conflicted. Cap also studied his moves.

There was another time but it was a younger and less experienced spider-man.

Cap didn't punch Peter out. They fought for 10 seconds, Cap landed three hits, and Peter was fine afterwards. Like I said, there is no scenario where Cap can defeat Peter by punching him out. Not to mention, it's incredibly iffy that Cap can tag Spider-Man at all considering his precognition, perception times that allow him to see bullets in slow motion, and speed that allows him to dodge sniper rifle bullets. Pure and simple, it's just PIS that Cap can even really land a hit on Peter, logically.

@i_like_swords: Alright I misunderstood what you meant.

Captain America's brain is enhanced to the point where he can see bullets in slow motion as well. And how is Steve tagging Peter PIS when people with similar speed to him like Wolverine have done it multiple times? I'm not even saying nor believe that Steve can punch Peter out for a majority. But Peter being so fast that Steve touching him in combat constitutes PIS? That's just making out Peter to be something he isn't.

To my recollection Cap's bullet perception statement didn't say slow motion - just that he can see faster than normal people. I might be mistaken though.

Wolverine has been stated as having comparable speed to the likes of Spider-Man, as well as Spider-Man himself, and has also trounced Cap before. Cap isn't as good as Wolverine, and going by feats, he isn't as fast.

I'm not making Peter out to be something he isn't, I just don't see the logic in someone like Cap being fast enough to hit Spider-Man if he doesn't want to be hit.

@i_like_swords:

To my recollection Cap's bullet perception statement didn't say slow motion - just that he can see faster than normal people. I might be mistaken though.

Sharon Carter asked Steve how he had dodged all those bullets, and he responded that it was because he can see faster. Makes sense that he was referring to the bullets so that he could dodge them

Wolverine has been stated as having comparable speed to the likes of Spider-Man, as well as Spider-Man himself, and has also trounced Cap before. Cap isn't as good as Wolverine, and going by feats, he isn't as fast.

Captain America isn't as good as Wolverine in the sense that he would lose a fight to Wolverine, and Steve would lose that fight due to not having the damage soak and damage output to put down Wolverine along with being less skilled. That doesn't equate to being physically slower. The only places in which Wolverine outpaces Steve physically is in terms of raw strength(Slightly), and grotesquely in terms of durability. Steve can go speed feat for speed feat with James if it came down to it.

I'm not making Peter out to be something he isn't, I just don't see the logic in someone like Cap being fast enough to hit Spider-Man if he doesn't want to be hit.

I don't think you want to make Spider-Man out to be more than he is, but saying he cannot be touched by Captain America kind of is.

@wolverine08:

Sharon Carter asked Steve how he had dodged all those bullets, and he responded that it was because he can see faster. Makes sense that he was referring to the bullets so that he could dodge them

That alone does not entail seeing something in slow motion. You wouldn't see a baseball in slow motion, but you can dodge it if you're fast enough to react to it. Granted Cap might be able to perceive the bullet or something along those lines, but there's a big difference between that, and seeing something in slow motion... like slower than a frisby.

Captain America isn't as good as Wolverine in the sense that he would lose a fight to Wolverine, and Steve would lose that fight due to not having the damage soak and damage output to put down Wolverine along with being less skilled. That doesn't equate to being physically slower. The only places in which Wolverine outpaces Steve physically is in terms of raw strength(Slightly), and grotesquely in terms of durability. Steve can go speed feat for speed feat with James if it came down to it.

Cap should be physically slower than Wolverine on the basis that Wolverine has been regarded as comparable to guys like Spider-Man, whereas Cap hasn't. Also, I'd wager that seeing as Spidey's speed feats are considerably better than Wolverine's, that a good portion of Logan's success against Spider-Man comes from his skill. Skill that Cap evidently can't match when Wolverine is dodging his blows and hitting him with nerve strikes. I'm just saying, Wolverine has his own attributes that allow him to compete with Spider-Man that Cap is lacking.

I don't think you want to make Spider-Man out to be more than he is, but saying he cannot be touched by Captain America kind of is.

I might be being a bit hasty saying Cap would never land a hit on him.. but I still see it as a 10/10 for Peter at the end of the day. His precog, perception time and physical speed are all factors that should allow him to run rings around Cap, should he choose to, which would in turn allow him to go for the easy web incap just about every time. If he engages Cap in melee.. maybe, maybe he wins a couple of rounds at most out of ten but it still seems somewhat illogical to me.. not only based on Peters speed but also his durability.

@i_like_swords:

That alone does not entail seeing something in slow motion. You wouldn't see a baseball in slow motion, but you can dodge it if you're fast enough to react to it. Granted Cap might be able to perceive the bullet or something along those lines, but there's a big difference between that, and seeing something in slow motion... like slower than a frisby.

If he is seeing things lie bullets faster than normal, does that not constitute an enhanced perception of sorts?

Cap should be physically slower than Wolverine on the basis that Wolverine has been regarded as comparable to guys like Spider-Man, whereas Cap hasn't. Also, I'd wager that seeing as Spidey's speed feats are considerably better than Wolverine's, that a good portion of Logan's success against Spider-Man comes from his skill. Skill that Cap evidently can't match when Wolverine is dodging his blows and hitting him with nerve strikes. I'm just saying, Wolverine has his own attributes that allow him to compete with Spider-Man that Cap is lacking.

Captain America should be as physically as fast as Wolverine on the basis that his speed feats are tit for tat as good at the end of the day. Wolverine being able to do better than Captain America in fights with Spider-Man is just another testament to the fact that he's more skilled than Steve. If you took their respective skill away and asked them to run around with each other, you'd see that they are just as fast as each other. People like Wolverine and Captain America use their skill to make up for the fact that they aren't as fast as Spider-Man, and Logan ends up looking better simply because he's the better martial artist. In light of the skill point that has been brought up, trying to say that Wolverine is faster than Captain America because he does better against Spider-Man is faulty.

I might be being a bit hasty saying Cap would never land a hit on him.. but I still see it as a 10/10 for Peter at the end of the day. His precog, perception time and physical speed are all factors that should allow him to run rings around Cap, should he choose to, which would in turn allow him to go for the easy web incap just about every time. If he engages Cap in melee.. maybe, maybe he wins a couple of rounds at most out of ten but it still seems somewhat illogical to me.. not only based on Peters speed but also his durability.

No, saying that Captain America cannot even manage to touch Spider-Man in light of the fact that Wolverine, Daredevil, Rhino, Iron Fist, Black Panther, and others inferior to or just as fast as Steve have done so is completely hasty. I never argued that Captain America can beat Spider-Man, but saying he would never get tagged is starting to reach.

I feel obliged to point out that Cap was using his shield, not his bare fists. I'd wager that the extreme toughness of the shield played a part in cracking Iron Man's faceplate, and it wasn't a heavily-shielded part like the chest piece either. He didn't exactly break Tony's armor apart. And it took multiple strikes before the faceplate shattered.

And lest we forget: Iron Man already beat the snot out of Steve in an earlier issue.

I don't think it's fair to label everything that occurred during Civil War as PIS though. Civil War was written by Millar, but the Spider-Man vs. Cap fight was done by JMS. Whatever one writer's flaws, they don't necessarily translate to another even if both stories are set at the same event.

Good fight. Pete takes majority.

@wolverine08:

If he is seeing things lie bullets faster than normal, does that not constitute an enhanced perception of sorts?

Enhanced, yes. Seeing bullets in slow motion? No.

Captain America should be as physically as fast as Wolverine on the basis that his speed feats are tit for tat as good at the end of the day. Wolverine being able to do better than Captain America in fights with Spider-Man is just another testament to the fact that he's more skilled than Steve. If you took their respective skill away and asked them to run around with each other, you'd see that they are just as fast as each other. People like Wolverine and Captain America use their skill to make up for the fact that they aren't as fast as Spider-Man, and Logan ends up looking better simply because he's the better martial artist.

Fair enough.

No, saying that Captain America cannot even manage to touch Spider-Man in light of the fact that Wolverine, Daredevil, Rhino, Iron Fist, Black Panther, and others inferior to or just as fast as Steve have done so is completely hasty. I never argued that Captain America can beat Spider-Man, but saying he would never get tagged is starting to reach.

*shrugs* It doesn't make too much sense, but that's how it is I guess. I've never understood how fighting skill makes up for such disparity in physical and perceptive speeds, but that's how it is in comic land.

From a logical stand point I'm right. Captain America, Wolverine, Daredevil - all of them, do not fight faster than bullets travel, and Spider-Man being able to see them in slow motion alone is enough of an indicator that he should be too fast for them. Add in his recently upgraded precognition, and better raw speed, and it just begins to make less and less sense that peak humans/low level metas can keep up with him.

@i_like_swords:

Enhanced, yes. Seeing bullets in slow motion? No.

Depends on how you take want to take it. But given Steve's feats against bullets, I'd say it's not completely unreasonable to assume so.

*shrugs* It doesn't make too much sense, but that's how it is I guess. I've never understood how fighting skill makes up for such disparity in physical and perceptive speeds, but that's how it is in comic land.

From a logical stand point I'm right. Captain America, Wolverine, Daredevil - all of them, do not fight faster than bullets travel, and Spider-Man being able to see them in slow motion alone is enough of an indicator that he should be too fast for them. Add in his recently upgraded precognition, and better raw speed, and it just begins to make less and less sense that peak humans/low level metas can keep up with him.

Spider-Man has never shown that he fights as fast as bullets either. He can react at those speeds, but Peter has never done anything to suggest that while fighting he's moving at Mach 4 speeds during combat like he proved he can react at during Kraven's Last Hunt. Spider-Man is faster than pretty much all low level metas like a Wolverine or Captain America, but it's not to the degree where other factors like their martial skill can make up for it. Peter isn't as fast as people on here tend to make him out be frankly.