Battle of the Week RESULTS: Batman and Robin vs. Daredevil and Elektra

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DarthAznable

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@foamborn said:

@comicstooge said:

The Batsuit has never stopped him reacting to gunfire, superhumans and the like. Seriously, the weight of the Batsuit has literally zero impact on Bruce's speed.

Wayne takes Elektra to school.

He would, in a fistfight but in a fight with weapons Elektra is vastly superior. She wins.

Even with weapons Bruce would win (if you're talking about just Elektra having them). Do you even read Batman? If his suit was cumbersome he wouldn't be dodging bullets, disappearing in plain sight, and dashing across the rooftops of Gotham. Hell if Bruce had weapons of his own, him being a master of basically all known combat he would come out on top if he had more feats using them. Please read a Batman comic before stating something so ludicrous.

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Fetts

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What about Black Widow? Punisher? Crossbones? Hawkeye? Mockingbird? Just to name a few.

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k4tzm4n

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#53 k4tzm4n  Moderator

It's easy to say "x is better," but convincing people of it is far more challenging. Why don't some people go ahead and challenge themselves instead of just slinging mud or assuming people should automatically believe their opinion is the right one? Elevate the debate, yo!

Oh, and if you are expanding upon your thoughts (in a non-abrasive way) or suggesting future combatants for Damian, thank you!

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FoamBorn

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Even with weapons Bruce would win (if you're talking about just Elektra having them). Do you even read Batman? If his suit was cumbersome he wouldn't be dodging bullets, disappearing in plain sight, and dashing across the rooftops of Gotham. Hell if Bruce had weapons of his own, him being a master of basically all known combat he would come out on top if he had more feats using them. Please read a Batman comic before stating something so ludicrous.

No I don't, do you read Elektra? Probably not. There's no rational debate in battle threads, it's all wishful thinking and conjecture. They might've mentioned once or twice that Batman mastered all the martial arts in the world but that's not humanly possible so I have to dismiss that as PIS.

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DarthAznable

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@foamborn said:

@darthaznable said:

Even with weapons Bruce would win (if you're talking about just Elektra having them). Do you even read Batman? If his suit was cumbersome he wouldn't be dodging bullets, disappearing in plain sight, and dashing across the rooftops of Gotham. Hell if Bruce had weapons of his own, him being a master of basically all known combat he would come out on top if he had more feats using them. Please read a Batman comic before stating something so ludicrous.

No I don't, do you read Elektra? Probably not. There's no rational debate in battle threads, it's all wishful thinking and conjecture. They might've mentioned once or twice that Batman mastered all the martial arts in the world but that's not humanly possible so I have to dismiss that as PIS.

I have read Elektra and while she is skilled, Batman is marginally better and has the gear, tactical mind, stats, and will to give him the win. We're talking comics here, not real world. It's not PIS if it's a skillset of the character. I don't think you know what PIS is because if you did, you wouldn't use it that way. It's like me saying of Superman has heat vision but that isn't possible in real life so it's PIS.

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FoamBorn

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#56  Edited By FoamBorn

@darthaznable said:

I have read Elektra and while she is skilled, Batman is marginally better and has the gear, tactical mind, stats, and will to give him the win. We're talking comics here, not real world. It's not PIS if it's a skillset of the character. I don't think you know what PIS is because if you did, you wouldn't use it that way. It's like me saying of Superman has heat vision but that isn't possible in real life so it's PIS.

Sorry, Batman can't learn 200 martial arts plus all the knowledge in the world, run Wayne Enterprises, design a spring summer mecha suit collection and retain the status of "human", that's utterly ridiculous.

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Super_SoldierXII

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Both Batman and Robin lose this fight.

They should have yes.

Elektra is a beast (getting better at the hands of quasi capable writers as the years trickle by), and DD is enough to give Bruce trouble in a random by his lonesome (while losing a slight majority).

I feel DD and Elektra should've won but oh well, the voters have spoken.

Your feelings are correct.

@dernman said:

I can't believe B&R won. What am I talking about of course they did. :/

I know, I know ... is what it is.

Is it ignorant of me to say that Batman solos? I honestly thought he could take these two on his own.

I wouldn't say it's ignorant ... but he does not solo these two A-listers in a random. Beats both in a one on one but certainly comes no where close to stomping either / or. Is Damian enough to abridge the distance? No, no he is not. But popularity is!!

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jashro44

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@jashro44 said:

@comicstooge said:

@thunderingthorfan: Elektra once got owned by Bullseye in a single page before DD saved her. True story.

That wasn't elektra. That was the skrull elektra.

Damn you Skrullektra.

In any case, she wouldn't solo Batman, not by a long shot.

I agree with that.

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Sy8000

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@comicstooge: And Elektras also beaten Bullseye. Twice. One of those times he'd spent months studying her moves to counter her fighting style. The other time she'd just gotten back from a surgery. On average, Bulleye is ludicrously outclassed by Elektra.

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k4tzm4n

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#60 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@comicstooge: And Elektras also beaten Bullseye. Twice. One of those times he'd spent months studying her moves to counter her fighting style. The other time she'd just gotten back from a surgery. On average, Bulleye is ludicrously outclassed by Elektra.

As someone who loves both characters, I can't help but disagree with this. The two fights you cited had important context which you didn't include, so I don't think it paints an accurate picture of their fights. The first one treated Lester like he was Taskmaster -- something I don't recall seeing in any other comic. He was dominating Elektra, and then became useless when she stopped fighting how she usually does (IIRC). If anything, that fight had Bullseye totally out-of-character; that's not how he operates. The second fight you cited is a great showing for Elektra because of her weakened condition, but it's important to express the fact that Bullseye's arrogance played a significant role. IIRC, he was enjoying toying with her and didn't seem to want to bring the fight to an end. She, on the other hand, was wise enough to end it -- in a hilarious way -- when the opportunity presented itself. So, I don't think it's fair to say Bullseye is "ludicrously outclassed" by Elektra. Is she a better hand-to-hand combatant? I'd say so, but he's ruthless, has superb aim (and ways of using anything as a weapon), and his reflexes are certainly up there. I think it's often Lester's personality which prevents him from being as formidable as he can be. Too often he enjoys playing with his food and, given the history between those two, that tends to be a factor. I understand if you think Elektra's better than him, but I disagree with her having him "ludicrously outclassed."

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jashro44

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@comicstooge: And Elektras also beaten Bullseye. Twice. One of those times he'd spent months studying her moves to counter her fighting style. The other time she'd just gotten back from a surgery. On average, Bulleye is ludicrously outclassed by Elektra.

To be fair bullseye was winning in elektra volume one until he had the nervous breakdown and she fought differently than before so bullseye could no longer read her. I agree elektra probably can beat Lester for a majority though.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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@theocitylegend said:

Is it ignorant of me to say that Batman solos? I honestly thought he could take these two on his own.

Batman would not solo. Could he beat either 1v1? Of course but not 10/10 times. 7 to MAYBE 8 out of 10 times. He has much better gear, better durability thanks to his suit, he's stronger, has better MA skills and has taken out similar foes and his endurance and will are phenomenal. Damian being there would lead to Batman taking his fight that much more seriously and ending it faster when he sees Damian over there holding his own but losing.

How is he stronger? Daredevil can lift limo's with up to 5 people inside unaided.

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DarthAznable

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#63  Edited By DarthAznable

@jonny_anonymous: I was speaking mainly for Elektra and if I recall he didn't straight up lift the limo.

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lamdaddy20

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@thunderingthorfan said:

People need to stop BSing. Elektra could solo batman any day of the week. Anyone who denies this is a fanboy plain and simple. She's better than DD and faster. Batman is COMPLETELY overrated on EVERY level imaginable.

I think you are the fanboy...plain and simple.

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BatBro15

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Battle of the Week Idea!!

Damian Wayne vs Bucky Barnes

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reaverlation

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#66 reaverlation  Online

Batman still solos...

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Ancient_0f_Days

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@saren said:

Our god is an awesome god

He reins from the Batcave below

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Ancient_0f_Days

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@foamborn said:

@darthaznable said:

I have read Elektra and while she is skilled, Batman is marginally better and has the gear, tactical mind, stats, and will to give him the win. We're talking comics here, not real world. It's not PIS if it's a skillset of the character. I don't think you know what PIS is because if you did, you wouldn't use it that way. It's like me saying of Superman has heat vision but that isn't possible in real life so it's PIS.

Sorry, Batman can't learn 200 martial arts plus all the knowledge in the world, run Wayne Enterprises, design a spring summer mecha suit collection and retain the status of "human", that's utterly ridiculous.

Keep in mind that you are talking about a fictional comic book character human, one who has kicked the Wrath of God in the face...it isn't ridiculous, and no, he isn't truly human, he is BatGod.

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AbdullahZubair

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Damian and Nightwing vs Red Robin and Red Hood

They have been together before as batman and robin

While the reds have a sort of friendship in the new 52

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FoamBorn

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Keep in mind that you are talking about a fictional comic book character human, one who has kicked the Wrath of God in the face...it isn't ridiculous, and no, he isn't truly human, he is BatGod.

it's not ridiculous that a comic book character can do all those incredible things, it's ridiculous that such a character is considered "human". His super-intellect is about as human as Superman's super-strength.

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#71 owie  Moderator

To me this is a sign that the majority of CV fans believe Batman simply cannot lose a streetlevel fight, no matter what.

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HushoftheWind

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i see my boy @omnicrono is still holding it down in the battle of the week debates. keep it up good sir.

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Sy8000

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@k4tzm4n: the first fight didn't have him fightibg like Taskmaster at all and I don't know where you got that from. Yeah, Elektra did win by ditching Her fighting style, meaning Bullseye lost to someone who literally forgot they had any combat skill. Bullseye was arrogant in the other fight, but he always is. I don't think Bullseye has any combat showings that don't involve his arrogance. Can't really be counted against him anymore.

Daredevil's stomped Bullseye 6 times. One of them was a one-shot and one of them had Daredevil with a broken arm. Elektra's stalemated Daredevil several times and even gotten the upper hand a few times. Crossbones nearly killed Bullseye and he's also absurdly less skilled than Elektra. Punisher beat Bullseye up close twice while Elektra speedblitzed him. Bullseye' a damn Nightwing leveler. He's not doing crap to Elektra on average.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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Just because Batman and Damian won and they're more popular doesn't mean its a popularity contest. Batman in his monthly battles has lost to Kraven and Black Panther, both of which are much less popular.

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frozen

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#75 frozen  Moderator

@owie said:

To me this is a sign that the majority of CV fans believe Batman simply cannot lose a streetlevel fight, no matter what.

@jayc1324 said:

Just because Batman and Damian won and they're more popular doesn't mean its a popularity contest. Batman in his monthly battles has lost to Kraven and Black Panther, both of which are much less popular.

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k4tzm4n

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#76 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@jayc1324 said:

Just because Batman and Damian won and they're more popular doesn't mean its a popularity contest. Batman in his monthly battles has lost to Kraven and Black Panther, both of which are much less popular.

To be fair, the outcome for those were just my opinion back in the "Does Batman Always Win? edition. I'm honestly not sure what the verdict would have been if polls were in place back then.

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deactivated-5edd330f57b65

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@k4tzm4n: Oh yeah, that was so long ago I forgot. Oh well.

But it'd actually be cool if you did it that way again, with the polls too. I liked seeing your detailed breakdown of the battle.

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ZhuRong

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The result is what I call bull crap

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jashro44

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@owie said:

To me this is a sign that the majority of CV fans believe Batman simply cannot lose a streetlevel fight, no matter what.

He lost to iron fist if you consider him street level.

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Gracetrack

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@hushofthewind: well hello there! Welcome back from basic training. :)

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k4tzm4n

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#81 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@jashro44 said:

@owie said:

To me this is a sign that the majority of CV fans believe Batman simply cannot lose a streetlevel fight, no matter what.

He lost to iron fist if you consider him street level.

And X-23!

@jayc1324 said:

@k4tzm4n: Oh yeah, that was so long ago I forgot. Oh well.

But it'd actually be cool if you did it that way again, with the polls too. I liked seeing your detailed breakdown of the battle.

Thanks, I enjoyed writing them.

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amazing_webhead

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Na na na na na na na na, na na na na na na na na...

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Gracetrack

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@foamborn: Lex Luthor, Ray Palmer, Anthony Ivo, Hank Pym, Tony Stark, Victor Von Doom, Bruce Banner, and several other super geniuses would have words with you.

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k4tzm4n

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#84 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@k4tzm4n: the first fight didn't have him fightibg like Taskmaster at all and I don't know where you got that from. Yeah, Elektra did win by ditching Her fighting style, meaning Bullseye lost to someone who literally forgot they had any combat skill. Bullseye was arrogant in the other fight, but he always is. I don't think Bullseye has any combat showings that don't involve his arrogance. Can't really be counted against him anymore.

Daredevil's stomped Bullseye 6 times. One of them was a one-shot and one of them had Daredevil with a broken arm. Elektra's stalemated Daredevil several times and even gotten the upper hand a few times. Crossbones nearly killed Bullseye and he's also absurdly less skilled than Elektra. Punisher beat Bullseye up close twice while Elektra speedblitzed him. Bullseye' a damn Nightwing leveler. He's not doing crap to Elektra on average.

Honestly, I think you're downplaying Bullseye. Simply put, if Bullseye was "ludicrously outclassed" by Elektra, he wouldn't be considered one of her biggest enemies and provided Daredevil with several good fights. If he was, as you say, ludicrously outclassed by them, he'd be someone else's villain because he'd be on their level or at least a level close enough to offer a challenge. But that isn't the case and he often fights DD and Elektra because he does often have what it takes to give them trouble. As for Punisher, he won in Daniel Way's street fight (when it was purely close combat), but Bullseye also humiliated Frank in the jungle and embarrassed him in Way's story (that one encounter aside). As for their fight when Punisher survived his execution, I'd take that with a grain of salt since Bullseye admitted he was pulling his shots (wanted to see if it was really Frank) and then Frank one-shotted him, something that's pretty silly given Bullseye had an adamantium skull and has endured much greater beatings against Daredevil in several prolonged fights. The times Bullseye has taken a beating before losing outweigh the times he was dropped by 1-2 hits.

You have a very high opinion of Elektra, which is understandable, but I think Bullseye is much more formidable than you give him credit for and you seem to only be looking at the times he's lost or suffered an embarrassing defeat. We know he has the reflexes to block bullets; we know he has the agility, skill, and ruthlessness to give Murdock several savage fights; we know he's tough enough to take a beating in several of them; we know he has uncanny accuracy and phenomenal use of ricochet shots. At any rate, I can't say I agree with you in the least that Elektra has Bullseye "lubriciously outclassed." Can she take a majority over him? Sure, I think she would. Will it be easy and effortless? I strongly disagree and, to be blunt (not rude, just honest), nothing you can say is going to change that. Everything you're citing I've already read and I just don't view the same way as you do. I spent a stupid amount of money on Bullseye's issues back in college -- much more than I should have -- because he was one of my favorite villains back then. I've read all of his fights with Elektra (skrull and regular) as well as the times he's faced off with other heroes and villains. I think Elektra should beat him, but I think she'll have to work for it. If I thought she had him "ludicrously outclassed," that would mean she wouldn't have to work for the victory and wouldn't have any trouble walking all over him. That's something we obviously don't see eye to eye on. If you disagree with that, that's fine, but given their history and many of Bullseye's better showings, I can't say I'm going to agree with you.

As for the Taskmaster comment, that's the only time Bullseye has attempted to duplicate his opponent's style and then was baffled when they did something unexpected. That's exactly how writers make Tasky lose sometimes and that's the only time I recall Lester using that approach. It's not how he operates, so I view that as out-of-character.

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teddy_the_god_killer

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@k4tzm4n: I am not prone to making silly suggestions, and I am most certainly not going to start now, but why not Damian vs Squirrel Girl? A genuine no BS battle. When including anything Batman related there is always a high risk / certainty of an argument anyway so let's see how these two match up.

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lxlGiftedlxl

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#87  Edited By lxlGiftedlxl

@foamborn: You do relize that there are tons of "humans" who posses super intellect and advance technology: Lex, Reed Richards, Dr. Doom, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner, Black Panther, Kitty Pride, Storm, Peter Parker, etc. So again Not just Batman.

But you seem to miss these other people again, because you don't like Batman

Also do you also realize that "human" characters other than Batman also know a plethora of fighting such as: Black Panther, Captain America, Iron Fist, Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, Cassandra Cain, Shang Chi, Task Master, Richard Dragon, Karate Kid etc. So Batman isn't the only one,

This traits are a part of there character, so you can't just dismiss it because you dont like them.

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lxlGiftedlxl

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@k4tzm4n: Great article! Cant wait for the next one.

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@foamborn said:

@comicstooge said:

The Batsuit has never stopped him reacting to gunfire, superhumans and the like. Seriously, the weight of the Batsuit has literally zero impact on Bruce's speed.

Wayne takes Elektra to school.

He would, in a fistfight but in a fight with weapons Elektra is vastly superior. She wins.

Based on what? Bruce without weapons has stomped Katanna, Ra's Al Ghul and various other skilled opponents who possessed blades while he was barehanded.

Elektra is nothing Bruce hasn't seen before dozens of times over.

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ComicStooge

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@foamborn said:

@darthaznable said:

I have read Elektra and while she is skilled, Batman is marginally better and has the gear, tactical mind, stats, and will to give him the win. We're talking comics here, not real world. It's not PIS if it's a skillset of the character. I don't think you know what PIS is because if you did, you wouldn't use it that way. It's like me saying of Superman has heat vision but that isn't possible in real life so it's PIS.

Sorry, Batman can't learn 200 martial arts plus all the knowledge in the world, run Wayne Enterprises, design a spring summer mecha suit collection and retain the status of "human", that's utterly ridiculous.

It's a comicbook.. It's impossible for a woman to get resurrected by a magic ninja cult too. Therefore, Elektra's technically dead.

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Jbourne_32

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Daredevil has what it takes to beat batman the guys a bullet timer, and the only thing stopping him from being up there with spidey is his strength and durability

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ComicStooge

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#92  Edited By ComicStooge

Daredevil has what it takes to beat batman the guys a bullet timer, and the only thing stopping him from being up there with spidey is his strength and durability

Both are bullet timers. Matt could give Bruce a good fight and secure a few wins, but Bruce would take a win for the majority. He's stronger and more skilled and has lots of cool gear.

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serrure

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@comicstooge: Bruce is not stronger than Matt... a case can be made for them being equal but iirc Matt was able to take a bar with 400 lbs and use it to beat the crap out of guys with absolutely no strain.

so saying Bruce's supposed strength advantage provides an actual advantage would be incorrect. its negligible at best and Matt might actually be stronger. I havent seen Bruce pushing Limos over or anything else like Matt has

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HushoftheWind

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@hushofthewind: well hello there! Welcome back from basic training. :)

yeah im not officially back yet, right now im on holiday leave for 2 weeks and i'll be heading back on jan 2 to finish basic and then move over to AIT. during AIT i'll probably frequent here again since i'll have access to my computer and phone again. im still playing catch up with a 2 months and half worth of comics i missed. So that would usually be a lot of money. im just gong to condense my list to Batman, Spider-man, Grayson, Green Lantern titles. If there's anything else worth while please let me know. I kinda wanna give a pass on AXis.

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ComicStooge

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#95  Edited By ComicStooge

@serrure said:

@comicstooge: Bruce is not stronger than Matt... a case can be made for them being equal but iirc Matt was able to take a bar with 400 lbs and use it to beat the crap out of guys with absolutely no strain.

so saying Bruce's supposed strength advantage provides an actual advantage would be incorrect. its negligible at best and Matt might actually be stronger. I havent seen Bruce pushing Limos over or anything else like Matt has

Bruce has broken the arm of a multi-tonner Man-Bat, outwrestled Killer Croc, overpowered a guy who could literally rip people apart with his bare hands, he's lifted 600 pounds while near death and bent multiple steel rods at once to contain a metahuman man. I'd say he could replicate the 400 pound staff feat, given that he casually gifts 1000 pounds while training.

Furthermore, he once physically contained an explosion by holding down the top of a barrel as the grenade went off, has physically redirected a missile in flight and has even resisted the pull of a commercial airliner's jet engine.

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ParagonNate

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*Shrugs* Still think it should have gone the other way. Oh well, no skin off my back.

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comicace3

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I kinda feel like DD and Elektra should've won this fight. Seeing as Damian holds team one back Skill wise and DD or Elektra can give bruce a good fight they should've taken a slight majority.

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owie

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#98 owie  Moderator

@k4tzm4n said:

@jashro44 said:

@owie said:

To me this is a sign that the majority of CV fans believe Batman simply cannot lose a streetlevel fight, no matter what.

He lost to iron fist if you consider him street level.

And X-23!

I knew as soon as I said it that there would be examples of people who beat him :)

Incidentally even as a big Elektra booster, I agree with your "Elektra doesn't ludicrously outclass Bullseye" statement. He's not one of DD's archenemies for no reason, and also, if she was that much better, there would be no interesting tension in their fights (as you said). I do think she's gotten beyond him, but what's interesting now is how both of their psychologies play so much into it now. His arrogance makes him vulnerable, and she clearly still has anxiety (at least as of Dark Reign) that makes her fight less than par for her as well. So it's a battle of their psychology as much as their physicals at this point.

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Evil-Incarnate

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I think it's funny that so many would say Batman beats many people by the sheer number of feats he has, but somehow this didn't apply to Damian versus Elektra or Daredevil. SMH...

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#100  Edited By k4tzm4n  Moderator

I think it's funny that so many would say Batman beats many people by the sheer number of feats he has, but somehow this didn't apply to Damian versus Elektra or Daredevil. SMH...

Many of the people saying team DC wins aren't saying Damian beats Elektra or Daredevil, just that Batman has what it takes to eventually overcome, whether Damian's still standing or knocked out.