Battle of the Week: Nightwing, Red Hood vs Punisher, Winter Soldier

Nightwing and Red Hood.

Marvel team. I think Bucky is above Nightwing or Red Hood noticeably.

Batbros, I'll go in detail later.

The Robins win. Grayson and Todd both have an instinctual teamwork that the Marvel duo can't compete with. Their training under Batman (and Jason's training under Grayson) along with their fights with and against each other shows they know each other quite well. Punisher and Bucky only have a passing relationship, thats actually gonna be quite a disadvantage here.

One of the only advantages the Marvel team has here is range. But that's nullified by their morals IMHO. Neither Bucky or Punisher shoot heroes. While on the other hand Jason has been shown to shoot Nightwing, Red Robin, and Robin before. Another thing working against the Marvel team is the 2000 foot starting distance, this gives the Batteam the option to stealth attack them. Both Grayson and Todd have been shown to be able to sneak up on Batman, who by feats has just as good as situational awareness as Daredevil, who Bucky and Punisher fail to fully sneak up on.

If this fight really does turn into a gunfight, Grayson and Todd can still evade and close the distance. Grayson dodging KGBeast and Deathstroke both at range and pointblank proves he can handle either shooter here. Todd, has dodged several shooters armed with various firearms and Mr. Freeze at the same time. Another thing is both of the Robins use smoke and flashbangs to cover their trail or distract their opponent.

Once the fight gets to CQC, then team Marvel is pretty screwed. Nightwing vs Winter Soldier: Grayson is faster and more agile, while Bucky is stronger. I think this really comes down to experience in facing a similar threat. In Grayson's later fights with Deathstroke, he has disarmed him, evaded him, and bloodied him. That alone says he has what it takes to fight an inferior opponent like Winter Soldier. While when Bucky fights someone agile like Black Widow or Daredevil he can't tag them, and has significant trouble in H2H. Red Hood vs Punisher: Jason is just clearly superior in nearly every way in a CQC fight. Is Jason faster? Yes. More skilled? Yeah. Better at avoidance? Of course. Is Jason more durable? Yeah, he actually is. Him tanking punches from people above his weight class like Forerunner, Donna Troy, and Brick all prove he is more durable. Punisher has only one advantage, pain tolerance, but that is basically nothing considering he is gonna be getting hit a hell of a lot more then Jason is. While Punisher has pretty realistic gear, basic firearms, small knives, maybe a couple grenades, Jason has a blend of alien tech, indestructible magic swords, and incredibly high tech stuff from both his and Arsenal's resources. Jason can literally end this fight with one attack, be it with a pressure point strike or an over powered taser. If the fights go the other way, Red Hood vs Winter Soldier and Nightwing vs Punisher, I don't see the outcomes being much different. Jason would have a slightly harder time against Bucky considering he has an impact resistant suit and has feats against tasers, but ultimately Todd would go for All-Blades faster then Barnes goes for his arm taser. Nightwing would evade Punishers every hit and put him down with his electric escrima sticks (which don't even need to touch you) or his full suit taser.

Robins win this at least 7 outta 10 times.

@highaccuser: How is Bucky above current Red Hood?

@allstarsuperman: Do you think Bucky is above Red Hood? I don't think he is.

@somayareece: only in accuracy feats.

@undefined: The one thing that kind of bothers me is that Nightwing is the only one here that does not use guns so it kind unevens the fight especially since Punisher and WS are highly trained in the use of firearms and I do not believe that anyone can physically beat WS here

Therefore, team Marvel takes it, no one solos and no one stomps but in the end they have to take it due to their determination, training, and firepower

So, does Red Hood have venom and all-blades?

He hasn't used venom for a long ass time, yeah he still has allblades, and yeah he actually uses them often.

@allstarsuperman: Ah, those all-blades might give team 1 the win. I'm not going to fully commit myself to either side yet but they do give Jason quite a bonus.

I have always seen Punisher as just a guy with a gun.

Frank & Bucky.

@jayc1324: Don't underestimate him. He has given Wolverine problems.

Under biased writers..........

Batbros

I'll post scans tomorrow morning, going to work now.

@allstarsuperman: he gave Daken hell as well, even if he died in the end so would have Nightwing or Red Hood, if you were to brought that last part up :)

@sirfizzwhizz: Yeah, but I don't see dying as being that impressive, anybody here could have hurt Daken before dying as well.

"Just a guy with a gun"

Sure

I see Red Hood taking out Punisher. Soon as he can get in close to do it. Because if they're both shooting then they'll be preoccupied for a bit.

Nightwing should've been Agent 37 from his Grayson run. That guy uses guns. Him and WS in h2h would result in soldier gaining upper hand. That left arm ain't no joke. Really it's about will Jason beat Frank in time to Help Grayson. Or will Bucky beat Nightwing to help Frank.

The winner is the person who can aid the next man first. I say Jason could defeat Frank before WS can chase down and catch Nightwing. Nightwing doesn't have guns here so he'll be playing hide n seek.

Not always. Frank did give wolverine a tough fight during wolverine volume 2 issue 186:

Gallery

He even did show the ability to shoot wolverine when wolverine was actually trying to dodge his bullets. What makes this even more impressive is Frank Terri wrote this showing in response to Garth Ennis portrayal of wolverine so this time the bias writing is on the other foot (which is why Frank is implied to be gay at the end). All though admittedly wolverine did stomp Frank during there mini in the jungle but the point is Frank has held his own outside of Garth Ennis.

Also in regards to Franks showing against Daken I don't think either nightwing or Jason have a pain tolerance showing on that level.

A guy with a gun can be a very dangerous thing. Deadshot for example can arguably beat batman if he didn't hold back. Just because Frank doesn't use any fancy kung-fu moves doesn't make him less dangerous than someone who does.

Anyways I think Bucky is the MVP and I do think Frank can beat Jason with high difficulty but lose to nightwing; however the robins should have the edge in team synergy. So I am thinking to close to call but I am curious about what the arguments will be.

Huh I wanted Captian America vs Deadshot but this will do

Guns are dangerous.

Or so I've heard anyways.

Red Hood and Nightwing take this. There are a plenty of things that favor them in this fight. It wouldn't be easy but I can't really see them losing.

They both are agile enough to dodge gunfire and both of their suits are actually bullet proof or at least offer some protection from guns. Once they get close, both Jason and Dick have better close range weapons in the all-blades and the escrima sticks that give them advantages over the Marvel duo that I can't see them overcoming. Even if they are unarmed and engage the team in a close combat they hold advantages in skill over both of them and have the talents to win there as well. The only way I see them losing the battle is if they attempt to stay at a range and fight the Marvel duo because they do lack the long range firepower that both Frank and Bucky are bringing to the table here. Even with that said, there are plenty of objects to use for cover in this setting and both are agile enough to close in and take this fight up close and personal where they hold all the advantages.

The biggest reason they are going to overcome the Marvel duo here though is teamwork. Being trained by Batman, fighting with each other on multiple occasions, and fighting against each other on multiple occasions gives the Bat duo very extensive knowledge of each other. They pretty much are brothers, even if they act like they hate each other at times. In this scenario, they are going to play to each other's strengths and use their knowledge and teamwork to win here.

Factor in all these advantages they hold then throw in the gear that both use on a constant basis and I cannot see them getting beaten here. It will be an interesting fight and one of them might go down in the process but they should win in a close battle.

Great fight SFW.

Nightwing/Red Hood win 6/10

Votes are 50/50

wow

Nice battle! I'll drop my two cents in a bit..

32 votes and still tied.

Bucky is superior to either Dick or Jason. Frank can beat Jason and split with Dick. Team Bucky for the win.

@sirfizzwhizz: Looks like I untied it

People need to stop saying Frank can beat Jason. It's just so untrue.

Because?

Half the internet says your wrong. :)

@bullet_to_the_head: lol

@sirfizzwhizz: Was Deadshot vs Captain America even considered? Just wondering.

Nope. not this time anyway. Deadshot vs Cap is a battle argued alot where Cap wins. We can work something with Deadshot in a bit though. Maybe a Deadshot, and Green Arrow vs Bullseye and Hawkeye.

@sirfizzwhizz: yeah fan votes with people who only watch movies and maybe at best read a wiki or two....that means a lot.

Dont be salty, debate it.

@sirfizzwhizz: All-blades for Jason or no?

@sirfizzwhizz: Bullseye vs Deadshot it's even Fair, Deadshot Slaughters, The only thing Bullseye has on Deadshot is Combat Skill, But that's Negated by Floyd's Armor, Bullseye's Bullet Timing Feats are limited, which is unfortunate against someone who can tag speedsters, It also doesn't help Bullseye isn't exactly Bulletproof, While Deadshot is

Lester's also more agile and has better reflexes (he's blocked a bullet on at least three occasions) - he's not just a better hand-to-hand combatant. While Floyd's armor does protect him, it doesn't render him invulnerable/immune to attacks. Point is, Deadshot vs. Bullseye is one hell of a match - one which I view as not only fair, but also highly entertaining. I tend to side with Floyd in that one (I think his no-nonsense approach would serve him well, especially since Lester's arrogant and would possibly want to toy/mess with a fellow marskman), but Lester's tactics (love for ricochet shots and cheap attacks) and superior close combat skills could make things very, very interesting in the right setting.

@sirfizzwhizz: @k4tzm4n: I posted reasons above.

When he deflects the bullet off his prison cuffs and into the shooter's eye........that was just awesome.

48 votes and tied again

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