Battle of the Week: Madara vs Magneto

@sightlessreality: thank you, but whats the differance between madaras izanagi, and the one itachi used against Obito, becuase didn't he say the opponant only had to 'except' oneself to break free? Or something along those lines.

@blackkaizer: Your thinking of Izanami, not Izanagi I think either that or your thinking of Tsukuyomi. Anyways, these techniques all have different effects.

That's Izanami, not izanagi.

How is he going to tag Madara?

@etheral_dreams said:

You are acting like the Rinnegan allows him control of gravity itself... All he can do is throw a gravitational pulling ball that pulls in rocks. How is that going to help him from being ragdolled by Magneto when he takes control of the iron in his blood?

The only answer I have for all of those abilities that Madara has is that Magneto will beat him (by manipulating his blood) before Madara gets a chance to do any of that. Even so, Magneto's shields are powerful enough to tank continent level energy attacks.

@noone301994: His Gravity Manipulation isn't just the use of Chibaku Tensei. Think back to Pain and what he could do:

-Destroy Konoha with a Shinra Tensei

-Launch all of the frog summons outside the crater of Konoha

-Disperse Naruto's Rasenshuriken

-Slam Kakashi into the ground

-Stop Chouza and Choji's Rotating Ball jutsus(forgot their name)

-Fly

-Pull Kakashi, Naruto, and Fukusaku towards him

And many others.

The Rinnegan given to Nagato was originally Madara's that he awakened and transplanted into a young Nagato, so he has the same abilities.

@thevivas: Right, but the only thing relevant there is his ability to fly (looked more like floating than flying). I don't see how any of that can be used to counteract being TK'd.

@noone301994: From the wording of your response, it seemed you didn't think he could manipulate gravity outside of Chibaku Tensei. That was all I was trying to prove. Lol

@thevivas: Sorry if that's how I came off. What I meant was that Pain didn't have control over all of gravity itself. It's not like he's Graviton or anything.

@etheral_dreams: Deatmoization and susanoo arn't breaking his shields if it took the phoneix force two attacks to do it.

Magneto was fast enough to block mjlonir which has MFTL speeds

Another feat to prove mjlonirs speed

Magneto was fast enough to react a proven MFTL mjlonir attack he can dodge madaras attacks and put his shields. Madara hasn't shown the ability to use amaterasu so feats or he can't do it. Magneto can also freeze madara. Madara isn't breaking magnetos shields they survived attacks from the phoneix. Magneto will eventually take down madara.

@chazz85: Lol Hulk has reacted to and dodged Mjolnir, I guess he has MFTL reactions too right? No because Thor doesn't consistently throw it at that speed. So unless you can find exactly how fast it was going then it's a moot feat.

@hulkage:

Even if i admit madara could blitz magneto it's very out of character for literally every naruto character but Guy and Lee to blitz. Once magneto has his shields up he has this which he most likely do after madaras initial attack.

@chazz85: Even if Madara manage to blitz and hit Magneto before he get his shields up, can he deliver a OHKO? Or Magneto will be able to tank his best hit?

@chazz85:

@hulaghulhulk:

He literally watched her charged her attack. That's not a reaction feat.

The second scan is not a lightspeed feat and is unquantifiable. Unless Sue and Johnny are MFTL.

Even if i admit madara could blitz magneto it's very out of character for literally every naruto character but Guy and Lee to blitz. Once magneto has his shields up he has this which he most likely do after madaras initial attack.

Literally everyone with considerable speed blitzes in the Naruto verse.

@hulkage: No they don't show me scans of madaras initial attack in 1 on 1 fight being a speedblitz. It's very unlikely madara would even consider magneto a threat.

Blitzes Sai, Naruto, and then chokes out Hashirama. Even though Hashirama admittedly couldn't move, Naruto and Sai were fully functioning.

@hulkage: He knew they were major threats unlike magneto also starting 2000 meters away theres no reason to suggest magneto won't put his shields up straight away since he does it a lot.

@etheral_dreams: here we equalize the battle field so just saying that they are created from another dimension doesn't matter

@etheral_dreams: also scans of light speed reactions please the fastest person in naruto was guy and he wasn't moving at light speed and madara was not reacting to him

But mags has amped himself to have ftl reactions

Also just cuz they are chakra and R from another dimension don't mean s$&@ we equalize the battlefield and energies here geez u naruto fans always switch things up when ever it favors u

2000 meters away is barely more than 1 mile. Even if we extremely lowball and say Madara is lightning speed (which he is faster than), it would take less than microseconds (rough estimation but I can do the math if you like) for lightning to travel that distance.

Guy was not the fastest in Naruto verse by feats. Naruto, Sasuke, So6P, Kaguya, and Madara were all faster.

8th Gates Guy needed help from two teleporters just to get close to Madara while Sasuke and Naruto straight up blitzed him. Kaguya was even faster than Naruto and Sasuke to the point where they couldn't tag her from point blank range.

@hulkage: still not light speed which is the point I'm getting u also forgot to mention kakashi blitz kaguya but still not light speed

I can repost my lightspeed breakdown (for the umpteenth time) if you would like...

And Kakashi teleblitzed, it's not the same thing.

@hulkage: It's highly arguable any naruto characters move past mach 16k so idk were your getting this FTL stuff from. The way i see it magneto easily has enough feats to react to madaras initial attack and once he does the fight is his no questions asked.

@chazz85:

Lightspeed in Naruto?

There are actually several instances of lightspeed travel and reaction speed.

The first but most obscure example of a lightspeeder in the Naruto-verse is Minato, the Yellow Flash. People often confuse his speed with just teleportation but they are actually two different techniques: shunshin and hiraishin.

Hiraishin is also the technique know as Flying Thunder God. It is a teleportation technique that operates instantly and allows the user to teleport to wherever a seal (or tag) is placed. For example:

Here we can see him teleport to the tag, here is where the confusion begins. Minato teleports away and back faster than Raikage, who was lightning speed, could move a few inches. That means his reactions are so fast that lightning would seem to be standing still.

Minato did not gain the name Yellow Flash from his teleport technique. Actually he gains it from shunshin which is pure footspeed. The teleportation is instant and leaves no traces, you simply appear at the tag.

His shunshin which was described as "a flash of light" inside of the actual databook is pictured here:

But many people like to discredit it as hyperbole so this will not be an actual part of my lightspeed argument.

Example #1:

The first form of lightspeed travel in Naruto that is non refutable is Heavenly Transfer Technique. This is a technique in which a ninja from the hidden cloud can instantly send things at the speed of light.

With this technique, Mabui is able to transport objects anywhere at the speed of light. When being transferred, the object is engulfed in light and moves to any desired destination through a narrow beam, reminiscent of a bolt of lightning. In all instances the technique was shown, the object transported was placed onto a sort of platform.

Although typically restricted to inanimate objects, the technique can be used on living organisms as well, including humans. However, as the body is unable to handle the speed involved in the transfer, they would normally be ripped to shreds as a result. Most notably the Third Raikage, with his extreme durability, was thought to be the only person able to endure the technique unharmed.[2] However later on, the Fourth Raikage and Tsunade both managed to survive it, although the latter suffered several minor injuries while the former suffered none.

This goes to show that anyone with durability better or equivalent to that of the Raikage should be able to survive lightspeed travel. This isn't lightspeed travel on someone's own accord, but it shows that Naruto characters are durable enough to survive it.

Example #2:

The first time we see an actual lightspeed attack (that can't be called hyperbole) is Might Gai's Night Moth.

Here he is shown bending space as he moves and affecting Gravity:

This is evidence of lightspeed movement for a few reasons. In order to truly distort space you have to be at least relativistic in speed. But here Gai does more than just distort it, his mass increases tremendously. We know this because the rod begins to become attracted to him in the bottom mid frame. According to the theory of relativity, if you are 90% of the speed of light your mass would double. That's nowhere near enough for objects, especially as dense as the chakra rods, to become attracted to you. Going lightspeed and increasing his mass to infinite for a short burst of speed is the much more logical explanation seeing as a shift of mass from a hundred something kilos to infinite would indeed cause the space to distort and would call other nearby objects to become attracted to him because of the sudden shift in gravity. Continue'd use of that speed would have caused a miniature black hole.

So now we have a two feats in this scan:

1. Might Gai can travel lightspeed in short burst when he releases the 8th inner gate

2. Madara has lightspeed reactions and perceptions (and honestly it isn't the first time even though everyone likes to discredit this feat):

Gallery

Madara reacts to multiple lasers in a jutsu called laser circus. Don't get caught up in the "name doesn't equal power" hype because the only other Storm Release jutsu documented is Madara's light fang which is confirmed as lightspeed.

Example #3:

Naruto, Sasuke, and Lightspeed:

I have already provided evidence of both Gai moving at lightspeeds and Madara moving and reacting faster than light. Now I just have to give proof of Sasuke

First example:

This is the most obvious one, Naruto dodging Madara's light fang:

Sage Art: Storm Release Light Fang (仙法・嵐遁光牙, Senpō: Ranton Kōga)
Ninjutsu - Senjutsu A Ninjutsu used by those who gained the Six Paths power, they emit a beam of light to bisect the enemy. Like a sharp and pointed fang, it cuts all things with the speed of light, making it impossible for the enemy to evade even one swing.

Naruto dodges this attack quite easily. And for those people bringing up Naruto's precog in this feat well you're wrong. Whenever Naruto's precog is in use Kishimoto illistrates it with an exclamation mark and/or a question mark ( !? or ! or !!) For example:

Here we also have Naruto blitzing Madara:

Now Sasuke's turn:

I can post more evidence but I believe this to be enough.

@sirfizzwhizz did you tag me and delete it?

Anyways the only three arguments I have ever seen against it was

1. Aim dodge

2. Precog

3. Inconsistency

All of which have been countered in said threads

@chazz85 said:

@etheral_dreams: Deatmoization and susanoo arn't breaking his shields if it took the phoneix force two attacks to do it.

Magneto was fast enough to block mjlonir which has MFTL speeds

Another feat to prove mjlonirs speed

Magneto was fast enough to react a proven MFTL mjlonir attack he can dodge madaras attacks and put his shields. Madara hasn't shown the ability to use amaterasu so feats or he can't do it. Magneto can also freeze madara. Madara isn't breaking magnetos shields they survived attacks from the phoneix. Magneto will eventually take down madara.

The Phoenix obviously wasn't using full power, LMAO. The Phoenix is multiversal, and even when a portion of it's power was in Jean Grey, she was still capable of casually causing supernovae and fighting Galactus. It's either PIS or because Jean was nerfed. Magneto's shields have never taken moon level+ energy blasts in rapid succession before.

Magneto's best feats are him channeling the energy of the magnetic fields of planets. However, the magnetic field of a planet does not provide nearly as much energy as you think. The total measurable energy of the Earth's magnetic field is only about 10 x 26 ergs, or about 25 trillion tons of TNT. Let's say Magneto was using 1,000,000x that energy, he'd still wouldn't be a moon buster. He's closer to Toneri's (the guy who casually split the moon in half and was going to destroy the Earth by smashing the moon into it) than Madara.

Also, you using Mjolnir's speed to justify Magneto's is ridiculous, because street levelers have consistently dodged it. The speed is variable, unless you want to say the likes of Wolverine, Hulk, and Spiderman are MFTL.

@hulkage: I delete it because its not my place to disagree with the feat. I just post these. But if you want to bring it up mate, the feat been debunk several times. Whether because of precog, Aim Dodging, or simply a baseless beam that is lightspeed from a faulty bio, there been many ways to debunk this one time feat.

@etheral_dreams: You make very good points about mjlonir but the his shield feats still stand. Anybody who can block a hit from any form of the phoneix has decent sheilds.

Perhaps, but it's unquantifiable. Post a feat that puts Magneto at moon level durability, and then he may be fodder to Madara.

After all, Madara fodderized BSM Naruto, who fodderized this guy:

@etheral_dreams: To be honest idk if i can find a feat of him fighting anyone with moon level striking force. All iam saying is the two feats of his shields blocking the phoneix put him well above madaras best attack capability.

Based off what? Phoenix doesn't have a set attack power, like nearly everything else, it varies.

Magneto shield blocked the Phoenix Force

Phoenix force > Madara strongest attack

End thread/

@etheral_dreams: It's a cosmic being that overpowered galactcus so we have to assume it's busting capability could easily be universe level. Considering one of galactcus blast's can defeat thanos,the phoneix being >>> galactcus must have more powerfull attacks so it's quite obvious magnetos shields could survive anything madara has since the phoneix had to try to break them.

The Phoenix also refers to Jean Grey, the super-heroine. Under normal conditions, she's not nearly as powerful as Galactus, simply because she doesn't have the total power of the phoenix force. The Phoenix whose attacked Magneto blocked was not Dark Phoenix or White Phoenix of the Crown or the Phoenix Force itself. It's just standard X Men Jean Grey, who has never even destroyed a country with her powers.

Magneto's force field blocked an attack from Green Phoenix Jean Grey, not the actual Phoenix Force.

Green Phoenix Jean Grey doesn't have any destructive feats on Madara's level AFAIK (once again, not talking about Dark Phoenix, White Phoenix of the Crown, or the actual Phoenix Force.)

Your argument is invalid.

/GG

@etheral_dreams: @cheesesticks: Magneto shield blocked the Phoenix Force

Phoenix force > Madara strongest attack

End thread/

This big time

Magneto's force field blocked an attack from Green Phoenix Jean Grey, not the actual Phoenix Force.

Green Phoenix Jean Grey doesn't have any destructive feats on Madara's level AFAIK (once again, not talking about Dark Phoenix, White Phoenix of the Crown, or the actual Phoenix Force.)

Are u trying to imply in anyway shape or form madara > Phoenix??

@hulkage: oh this garbage fan stuff again lmao lasers R not light speed in comics or manga or anime I gues Spider-Man is light speed goku red ribbon arc must b mftl since he out ran a laser

Also teleportation on minatos part that his whole gimmick

@higorm: Can Magneto survive getting hit by an attack that breaks you down at an atomic level. Or being encased by million if not billions of tons of rock. Or having is soul taken. These are all things Madara can do. He can also paralyze your body with chakra rods.

@sightlessreality: Idk.. You tell me, can he? ;P

@higorm: Your the one that asked if Madara could KO or kill him. So I presented a few things he could do if he blitzed. So you tell me if he can survive those things without at the very least being KOed.

@sightlessreality: I have no idea, Madara usually does those things in a fight? Like going all out from the start?

The environment swings it in Magneto's favor for me.

@higorm: Those are all things he can do without going all out. The attack that breaks people down at an atomic level - Truth Seeking Balls, those things literally float around him and he can manipulate their shape.

Chibaku Tensei, basically this creates a gravity sphere that pulls everything but the user to it with great force. Madara created several of these with ease and they were able to pull over a countries worth of rock each

All Madara has to do to soul rip is to touch the person and lift up. It's that easy.

@etheral_dreams: The scan clearly state that Jean was going all out with her new power aka the Phoenix force. So yes it is the Phoenix Force, Jean in control would not go all out, she was possessed by the Phoenix force.

The Phoenix that attacked Magneto was in fact the Phoenix itself and not Jean. FYI.

It also held up a million tons of rubble and lava after that engagement when Mageneto fled.

@sirfizzwhizz: @cheesesticks: If it was the Phoenix Force itself, then that's undeniably PIS, unless you're really saying Magneto's shields can tank attacks from a bloodlusted multiversal being? That's ridiculous, especially considering his shields have been broken by far less.

What consistent feats put Magneto's shields at a level where Madara can't blast through them? This version of Madara fodderizes people with moon level striking power; how does Magneto compete?

I think you have little understanding of Phoenix itself. the ONLY Multiversal Phoenix is White Crown. This was the Phoenix Force, but as Green Phoenix, and Green Phoenix has morals. Dark Phoenix does not. Green phoenix Rachel was capable of beating Galactus, but not straight away. Only through a war of attrition could Green Phoenix wins.

So in the end Magneto took a dang powerful shot, but it was hardly Multi Universe level lol.