Battle of the Week: Cyclops vs. Gambit

Lmao I used to think people actually wanted Cyke to win but he was just out classed most of the time.

Cyke is god knows much better of a strategist than Gambit is, which would be the turning point of this fight.

Turning point of this fight would be that Cyclops won`t even hear that Gambit is behind of him (stealth) and after that Scott will be KOed with bo staff.

@omnicrono said:

Cyclops' optic blast can be used in open and closed environment since he is able to control the intensity of the blast, from blasting skin off the Hulk, to making a bank shot in billiards. A staff is half of the equation. The other is H2H combat, which Cyclops has been formally trained in. The man has fought multiple opponents blind and has won. I'm not saying Gambit isn't a good fighter; being a street fighter gives him advantages, but we are talking about someone who has fought both Captain America and Wolverine and was able to hold his own. Plus, again, the key factor is that Cyclops knows Gambit's abilities very well since he lead him into battle. Cyclops wins.

Balance on an index finger does not mean one is stronger than the other; that's not a valid point. Bruce Lee did one finger push-ups. Does that mean he's stronger than Brock Lesnar, who benches 600 lbs? In the same case, being called "slim" doesn't mean one isn't strong. It just means the body make up is different. They're pretty much the same size if you look at them. Cyclops has been seen tagging multiple people with his blast while performing flips. I think that qualifies him as being just as athletic as Gambit.

Cyclops fires beams of kinetic energy.

Gambit absorbs and gets stronger from kinetic energy.

The only way for Cyclops to win is to overload Remy before getting owned with a crushing riposte.

A low power shot will amp Gambit in speed, agility, and damage output.

A max level blast would atomise Gambit.

Scott will likely use too little power than too much pre AvX.

Hence, my vote for Gambit 6/10.

Could go either way depending on the situation, but giving Cyke the edge here.

Cycles destroys Gambit

Cykes would just stand at a distance and constantly fire at objects that Gambit would touch from his powers and explode, and fire his arms off.

Scott has a spatial awareness similar to Daredevil's echolocation. Stealth won't work with him if he's expecting his opponent to use it.

Cyke

@tchalla3000:

Balance on an index finger does not mean one is stronger than the other; that's not a valid point. Bruce Lee did one finger push-ups. Does that mean he's stronger than Brock Lesnar, who benches 600 lbs? In the same case, being called "slim" doesn't mean one isn't strong. It just means the body make up is different. They're pretty much the same size if you look at them. Cyclops has been seen tagging multiple people with his blast while performing flips. I think that qualifies him as being just as athletic as Gambit.

OK. Let's get into "real life" a tad because you brought it up. Strength is most definitely proportional to size and fitness level - with genetics backing to be sure. Takes equal amounts strength, skill & balance (balance depends a lot more on strength than folks think) to support ones body weight on ones index finger, and a heck of a lot more of each, than it does to bench 500lbs when you weigh in at 300lbs.

Brock sure as heck couldn't dream of supporting his weight on his index despite being able to bench 500+ lbs. He's far from strong enough to support his mass like that. Which is to say, pound per pound you bet your @ss Bruce Lee was stronger than Lesnar. Weighing in at 150 lbs soaking wet and doing push-ups (repetitions) with 250 lbs on his back is far more impressive than a 300 lbs man having a max bench of 600 lbs (more accurate statements have peak form Brock benching slightly over 500 lbs).

Knowing they are relatively the same to similar in size (Scott and Gambit), I'd say Remy's feat is extremely pertinent to the conversation

Regardless, talking about a strength differential between two peak humans at relatively the same size is meaningless and shouldn't even enter into the conversation in any consequential way given their respective power sets. We're essentially arguing for the sake of arguing where this debate is concerned.

As to Scott being even remotely as athletic, he's not even close;

There are a dozen more feats highlighting similar to better. With regards athleticism, Scott shouldn't even be in the same conversation.

I think Gambit would win, because of his H2H skills and pretty much just about anything he can touch becomes a weapon.

I wouldn't put it past Gambit to trick Cyclops. He would use some form of misdirection to get the edge on Cyclops.

Since when did Cyclops have that?

Of all people you think Cyclops would allow Gambit to sneak up on him? As if hes never met him....

If this was a random encounter where they just popped up on each other and had no knowledge of each other I would probably give it to Gambit, even though I really have never liked him.

However, it would be hard for me to side against Scott when he is facing a fellow X-Man with at least comparable power levels.

Scott knows Gambit's abilities backwards and forwards, he knows how he fights, and more importantly how to beat him.

Scott either quick draws him, or sets him up for a KO shot.

Kinetic energy means Gambit's mind moves like quicksilver ... that's why TP doesn't work on him. It also enhances his reaction time.

Tagging Gambit will be far more difficult for Scott than the inverse. How often has Summers danced around machine gun fire exactly? Right then.

The guy dances around automatic gunfire pointblank. Based on feats, and not just "popularity" of Scott on the Vine (which has been built up far too much), Remy is a very bad fight for Summers.

I meant quickdraw in the sense that it is far faster for Scott to trigger his visor than it is for Gambit to pick up something, charge it, throw it, let it travel, and then explode.

I'd say Cyclops again, due to his experience, not just his personal fighting experience, but his experience with Gambit. Knowing his tactics and tricks, if he's has brilliant a tactician as to be believed, then he would know how to deal with his teammate should he ever have to go after him. I call that being prepared.

I'm pretty confident that Gambit takes a solid majority. Unlike Scott, Gambit has a multitude of ways to take down his opponent. Not only that, but morals. This always hinders Scott in my opinion. When he can't just go full visor on his foes is becomes a much easier task, but that's not the case here.

This time he's facing off against an ally and will also most likely be holding back. (Possibly even more than usual.) However, I think the same goes for Gambit. I don't think he's just going to spam throwing cards at Scott unless necessary. I also believe that since both have a history of working together, they should be fairly aware of how much punishment the other can take. I believe this is an advantage from Scott.

However, that doesn't mean Scott will just spam optic beams. And the thing is, Scott is very limited in concerns to being versatile in a fight. I could see Gambit taking out the street lights and leaving Scott open for attack. I understand that Scott as fought will blind (Or at least in similar conditions.) but isn't he kind of against that in a way?

This means Gambit could masterfully sneak up on Scott and take him out with a quick staff to the face. An easy win for Gambit. (Not really an easy win as Scott can easily keep Gambit at bay if he plays it smart.) The problem is, Gambit is extremely quick and agile. He's kept up with Daredevil, who is a well known bullet dodger and has even dodged Cyclops blast before. While Scott could keep him at bay, he's going to have a hard time tagging Scott.

But it would also be pretty easy for Gambit to pick up a few pebbles and toss them at the ground, leading to a minor blast and taking out Scott. To be honest, I'm quite torn on this one. I believe Cyclops knows what level of punishment Gambit can take, and that if he gets a shot off on Gambit that might be it. However, I see Gambit weaving through Scott's optic blast and using the environment to his advantage. I also believe that Gambit has many more effective ways of taking Scott out, while the opposite is untrue. Overall, I believe Gambit takes a six point five to ten ration is this scenario.

Sorry if these points have already been countered. I didn't take the time to read through the thread, so I'll refrain from voting right now.

That's true. But then, Gambit is far, far more adept at avoidance than Scott is. He can charge everything he touches as he prances by. He'd be a somersaulting, back-flipping tornado of charged, well, everything really ... Gambit's hand to hand is demonstrably superior to Scott's. His agility, reflexes and avoidance far more demonstrably superior.

Based off feats, and given each of their respective skill sets & power sets, I remain adamant that Gambit is just a terrible fight for Cyclops.

He is not a good fight for Scott, that is for sure.

Anyone with tremendous levels of agility is a bad fight for Scott, his only extraordinary power is a beam type power. Notice I did not call it a ranged power, while it is most definitely a ranged attack, unlike using a gun or something, he can just as easily blast you with it in melee combat. Fighting Scott in melee is like fighting a well trained martial artist with a constantly loaded shotgun that can go off with a glance.

I will not be delusional enough to thing that Scott can take Remy in a completely unarmed fight, he can't. However he just plain knows Gambit too well.

He knows that Gambit will give him fits up close, but he also knows that Remy likes to stay at range and use his agility to help him dodge.

He also knows that unlike Scott, Gambit is not immune to is own powers (Last I saw at least), what is going to happen when one of Gambit's pieces of ammo gets shot out of the air only a few inches from his hand?

Gambit is also cocky, Scott could probably use that to his advantage.

It is not a stomp but I do see Scott winning about 6 or 7 out of 10.

To anybody who underestimates Gambit's speed and accuracy:

<The context of that makes it more impressive.

There is no doubt that Summers is smart. He's a thinking man's fighter (at least Marvel tries it's darnedest to bill him as such). Unfortunately, a character is only as clever as its writer. (A gripe for another time perhaps.)

And yes, Summers is billed as a born leader to be sure. He knows "his" X-Men without doubt.

A great fighter studies his opponent before a fight. With regards his X-Men and their antagonists, Scott is cited to have done just that. An important proponent to any fight true enough, and to be expected of any leader worth their salt. But c'mon now, that's not enough to ignore what Gambit has going for him in this fight ... which is just about everything else.

His power set is perfect for avoiding ranged attacks, and reacting in kind. As such, at its base, Gambit's skill set is tailor made to neutralize Cyclops' greatest strength, and his offensive abilities are more than a match for Scott's ability to defend against.

In addition, Scott is not known for opening with area of effect, all out, blasts. Pretty sure he'd be concerned about killing Gambit in character with such a blast. And it's really not like Remy doesn't know Cyclops every bit as much as Scott knows him. You'll have to prove, through feats, that Scott can take majority over Gambit and not just via character synopsis. Through feats, Gambit has plenty to offer to highlight how and why he can evade Scott's attacks long enough to launch plenty of his own.

From what i am reading some people seem to think that cyke landing on beam on Remy would be easy. First off you're wrong and second even if Scott can make the beam wide he risk the chance of leveling the buildings around them and killing Gambit. Remy is more than capable of dodging cykes beams.

As you can see Gambit is more than agile and quick enough to dodge machine gun fire. Also he can dodge and deflect lasers and energy based weapons and like Cyclops he can ricochet his shots as well. The last scan is just there to show how good Remy can maneuver through tight spaces.

the battlefield is hugely favored for Remy. it provides him cover and he can stealth his way out. ill prepare a very in depth analysis as to why Gambit should win while im in school (We dont need no stinking math) so look for it in a max of 7 hours but i should be done before then

@joker13csc:

Just a friendly word of advice ... try to use a "Spoiler Block" when you feel inclined to post a scan orgy as it's far more user friendly and eats up the page far less.

That said, I agree that folks seem to grossly underestimate Lebeau's ability to avoid.

Cyclops do to his tactical prowess and knowledge of the opponent. If Scott didn't know Remy I would have given this to Gambit...

@super_soldierxii: Sorry about that, I has to post all of that from my phone last night and it's a nightmare trying to get everything the way you want. But anyways im glad you agree

Only when he fights a fan favorite. There is still the problem of his powers being able to absorb kinetic energy. Not enough to tank massive blasts, but enough for him to likely take low level to mid level shots.

Coupled with Gambit's superhuman speed, strength, agility, and thought process speed; Cyclops will likely only get one shot to win the fight. Morals on would make that shot less likely to KO Gambit than Gambit's KE attacks KOing Cyclops.

It is a position that gets overlooked. Gambit absorbs KE and releases it as KE. Cyclops absorbs electromagnetic energy (sunlight) and sends it out as KE beams. It is why Havok can charge him. It also makes a fight between Cyclops and Gambit/Bishop such a difficult thing morals on. They can both absorbsome of the power of his attack, and throw it back in a way he cannot tank.

Gambit gets my vote.

Gotta go with Cyclops on this one.

The fact that they're teammates almost completely puts this battle on Scott's side. He simply knows his X-Men too well.

Aside from that, he'll stop Gambit from the opening. If Remy charges cards and throws them, Scott is going to blast them out of the air, and likely blast Remy right along with them. Let's say Gambit predicts Scott is going to go with the straightforward optic blast opener and decides to immediately dodge and charge some part of the environment as a trap. With that move Gambit will give away his position, because objects change appearance when Remy charges them, and lead Scott to destroy that part of the terrain, and least give Cyclops an idea of where Remy is or in what direction he's moving.

And all this is at a distance. I'm a firm believer that Cyclops becomes more dangerous the closer one gets to him. If Remy has to get closer, then it's game over. Cyclops' beams move at the speed of light, so there is virtually zero chance of dodging them at close-range (or any range, for that matter). If Remy gets close, he doesn't have the durability to withstand one of those blasts, so it's going to be a wrap.

Gambit has a lot of advantages. I think he's best in hand-to-hand or mid-range fights, and against people who don't have energy blasts. Anyone who can hold Gambit at a distance and also use that same power if he happens to close the distance is going to have the advantage. The fact that Cyclops knows Remy's strengths, weaknesses, tactics, habits, etc. only tips the scale more against Gambit.

Cyclops takes this one 7/10.

you do understand Remy has stealthed past Wolverine before right. he wont just charge in he'll disappear and then sneak up on Scott who will have no idea where Remy is until its too late

@master_of_suprise:

As you can see, Cyclops is hitting targets he isn't even looking directly at.

I'm quoting directly from this site:
"Cyclops possesses a uncanny talent for spatial geometry, enhancing his observation of objects around him and the angles found between surfaces of these objects. This inborn talent grants him the ability to ricochet and/or reflect his optic blasts off objects in a trajectory to his liking. Cyclops has honed this intuitive spatial awareness through extensive training in the Danger Room, enhancing his accuracy in the use of his mutant power. He has been observed reflecting beams off of half a dozen different surfaces in the course of a single optic blast, hitting multiple targets accurately."

@surfingthehighway:

Huh. I never knew that.

It's not as advertised as his optic beams, that's for sure :P

No it's not, it is not a power, he just happens to have remarkable spatial awareness and aiming skills.

He has no additional sensory skills, he is just remarkably good at trigonometry and judging his surroundings.

This inborn talent grants him the ability to ricochet and/or reflect his optic blasts off objects in a trajectory to his liking. Cyclops has honed this intuitive spatial awareness through extensive training in the Danger Room, enhancing his accuracy in the use of his mutant power.

____________________________

I never called it a power, but I do believe it is an ability derived from his mutation. Either way, the Vine itself says it's an ability he's had since birth, and that he's been able to improve upon it through extensive training. Maybe Gambit's agility isn't a mutation, but we sure should factor it into the battle. The same should happen with Scott's spatial awareness.

You were comparing it to Daredevil's radar sense, it is nothing like that.

Scott's skills with spatial awareness does not make it any harder to sneak up on him than anyone else a normal person.

That would be like saying it is harder than normal to sneak up on Deadshot or Bullseye because they have remarkable aim and skills with spatial awareness.

@misterwhisper: It's pretty likely we won't agree in this, buddy.

I guess I consider the fact that Cyclops can shoot moving targets that he's not looking at as something similar to echolocation ("having eyes on his back", if you will), and you don't. But that's alright. No need to fight over that, it's just a difference of opinion.

Cyclops. He's just smarter.

@floyd_fenris: So your saying that he wins purely because he is smarter? Gambit would own Scott in a h2h fight and as others have stated Remy is quite intelligent himself.

I had to really seriously think about this one. My gut instinct is to go fro Gambit because I like him as a character, but when you take into account Cyclops' tactical abilities it does throw a spanner in the works. This is pre AvX so Scott has his abilities, but (and this is what decided my vote), if he really gets peeved and sees no other way about it Remy will just go all Death on Scott's ass and he's dust.

Sorry Scott, we may share a name, but the king of thieves gets my vote.

Wow, great match up. Both are good at the range and H2H game here.

Biggest factor for me is in character. I do not think Cyke will nuke Gambit, not Gambit IED the battlefield. If Gambit plays the sneak around cover game, I can see him setting up Cyke for a surprise attack. Range game will go to Cyke after a time too. Close combat is the only situation I think Remy will do best in as he has super human agility, good moves, and a more effective weapon in combat. He can still use both hands for card attacks while Cyke is limited to only his field of vision. In Hand to Hand I give the edge to Gambit.

I'm leaning on Gambit. I think he has more options to win in a non jobbing scenario with in character option on.

Let's say Gambit gets close to Cyclops, all Cyclops has to do is fire a wide area beam at close range and Gambit is done for.

@thetrueredkid: Gambit is much much faster than Cyclops. hes also very stealthy i have yet to see how Cyclops would detect Remy. he wouldnt sneak up in front of him, hes fairly intelligent.

Will the poll be getting fixed?

Anyway my vote is for Gambit.

Cyclops is not at peak human physicals.

While Gambit has speed and agility that are demonstrably better than Captain America.

Add in morals and Gambit having a powerset that actually boosts his durability against concussive attacks and my vote goes with the cagey Cajun.

I tossed my vote to gambit.

As mentioned cyclops is a highly tactical guy, and he knows the strengths and weaknesses of the X-men as mentioned, but thing is Gambits a pretty clever guy himself. And what a lot of people don't know is gambit has also studied the X-men. I recall he was in a illusion, and the fake nightcrawler tried to ambush him Gambit hit him and said, "know thy enemy as well as thy self!"I also recall when Gambit was sparring with storm, he kicked her off the water fall and the narration said storm instinctively used her powers to fly, which gambit was counting on, and than he tackled her. I also recall a fight with wolverine (I think wolverine was ill and wasn't in his best shape), where gambit used a fake lady deathstrike against Loogan to gain an advantage, and surprise wolverine. My main point here is that all though cyclops does analyze the fighting patterns of his team, and such, so does gambit. So all though cyclops probably knows gambits typical go to tactics, I think gambit will be counting on that and will try something else. They both know how each other fight, and they both study there teams. Sure cyclops might be slightly smarter, but gambit is obviously not an idiot.

The real reason I think gambit has this though is his power set. Gambits agility and reflexes are just incredible. Short of say spider-man and people in the spider-family, and arguably daredevil gambit is potentially one of the most agile characters in marvel. His reflexes are amazing which allow him to deflect multiple bullets and al that jazz. But not only that but gambit can throw some major explosives which will make Scott run for cover. Difference being is gambit is better at avoidance. And if things get melee? I don't think I need to go into detail why Gambit wins that one. He's just more skilled in hand to hand than cyclops. I would say his showings against daredevil and daken are enough to prove that.

Basically I think Scotts only advantage is tactics and stuff, but I don't think its so significant gambit can't counter at all. Gambit can take a few wins at a distance and many wins up close. His power set is the perfect counter for cyclops.

@misterwhisper: @surfingthehighway: I've usually seen Cyclops' spatial awareness described as a power, or at least an innate ability; it's not a learned ability like Bullseye's skills. But, I've also never seen it used to become aware of someone trying to be stealthy; it's more about knowing how his beam will reflect around without having to think about it. (Although I think I have seen him use it while playing pool, so it's not restricted to just his beams.)

@joker13csc: @super_soldierxii: I don't disagree about the difficulty of tagging Gambit, he's an excellent dodger. But just to be clear Cyclops can vary the power of his beams, so his wide-angle beam does not always have the view-clearing effect he has used on the "Sentinel on the lawn," etc. He can go wide-angle and lower-power at the same time. He won't necessarily use it on his first shot, and Gambit may close in by the time he decides to go for it, so that point may be moot, but I just wanted to clear up that point.

I am a bigger Cyclops fan than I am a Gambit fan, yet I think Gambit would take this 6/10. HOWEVER, I just have to say that it is almost impossible to figure out what is going on in many of the scans people are uploading in favour of Gambit.

There's one image in which he is falling from a truck down to the road, yet he grabs the bottom of the truck and hurls himself under it (?!?). That makes no sense, it's not about agility, but about physics. I'd have a really hard time believing Spider-Man could pull that off as well...