Battle of the Week: Batman and Robin vs. Daredevil and Elektra

@owie:

Great, now I have the sudden urge to pick up her current series....not sure I can afford another comic on my pull list :/.

Shame on you, Jash! You know there was context to those fights!!

@owie:

Father and son.

@owie:

1. Killing fodder with sais is actually much easier than incapacitating Dozens of multi ton Man-bats with strikes. This is something I wanted to put into context. Her feats with killing weapons are on par with Batman and Daredevil without killing weapons.

If we go into Batman's ridiculous number of beat downs administered without prep against superhumans I would crash my phone. But as we are going into PIS territory with Electra humiliating Tiger Shark, Batman one shots Wonder Woman.

2. Iron Fist is behind nd anyone on this thread in terms of healing and strike power. If Electra stood any chance at all it was due to IF not going all out. I can counter that with Batman getting some good shots in on Superman in Hush without prep, as there would be hefty amounts of Context.

3.

The problem with dismissing the gear is that BOTH characters are g considered to lose to Batman in a one on one fight with standard gear. If they lose to sg Batman with gear, a reasons n needs to be provided why they would win in the same situation. If Batman would win a standard gear contest with an opponent, the burden of proof is in what makes his gear less effective. You have not provided it. The same gear that would drop Electra would drop DD. The same Sonics that would disoriebt Electra would devastate Daredevil.

4. As there is zero chance of Electra dying in this fight, I do not see how Daredevil's reaction would matter.

Well I think her showing in enemy of the state was pretty good. Yea I know she needed to sacrifice some shield agents to pressure point him but after the missile hit the boat and logan was moving again, she did dodge him and get a neck wound with her broken sais. And all though Logan was protecting a family in their fight in Redeemer Elektra was still able to step into the gap IIRC and feint him out which is impressive. The win was circumstantial but the technique she displayed was pretty awesome, and I recall the narration even said Logan was impressed with "how she lies" or something like that. I need to reread that fight admittedly but I recall her having impressive feints and fakes in the fight, and also luring wolverine in close or something.

I'm not saying she is better than wolverine-I agree Logan should beat her handily in a fight-but I think her showings against Logan are very impressive. Its better than what Damian can do at the very least.

@bane_of_sith thoughts?

Damian solos...

The father and son duo should take this. Batman takes out Daredevil after a decent fight and then they proceed to beat up Elektra.

Lot of Elektra lowballing going on. I'm unsurprised.

Batman curbs her and Matt at the same time while Damian sits back and plays with Titus. :)

@save_me_now: You are talking about Elektra like she is something that dangerous or big. Martial artists like Elektra get defeated by Batman every single day and nobody even notices that because it's nothing special. He has used his anger when he was figthing every single Man-Bat that was part of the League of Assassins recently in Batman and Robin when he found out that Ra's stole Damian's body.

@jashro44: It's all good. I just wanted to give you a hard time about something. I haven't done it in awhile >:D

I don't read the comics. I have saw only the movie and in the movie Robin was adult.

In fact I have written: «

But the Robin of the pictures isn't too young?

If I remember well the movies, he should have twenty years old.

Maybe in the comics he is younger.»

Obviously if in the comics Robin is a minor, what I have written it is wrong, then is better if I delete the post.

@comicstooge true enough to an extent, I suppose, but I think it's still a pretty decent stabbing feat.

Well, it's being cancelled in another issue or two, so at least you won't be out much money :(

Is it sometimes easier to kill than not kill? Sure, that's fine. That's why it was impressive that she took out a SHIELD squad in one of their top prisons with nothing but paintball guns.

The point is not to compare Elektra's total list of defeated enemies with Batman's. Obviously he has been in far, far, far more issues than her. The point was, you said we were using only SHIELD and Hand feats to compare her to Batman, while in fact we are showing that she can defeat far more dangerous characters than just the Hand or SHIELD agents. If you want to see how she beat Tiger Shark, look at the scans. She stabbed him in a weak spot.

2. I mentioned Cap and Iron Fist because Daredevil has fought them, and Taskmaster and Shang Chi because Elektra has fought them. Also, Iron Fist's power has increased quite a bit over the years.

3. First, it's not an automatic consensus that he would beat either one individually automatically with his gear, although he would have an advantage. Second, they're starting off very close, he's not going to have time to use much in the way of gear. And even less time to do so when it becomes 2 on 1. He's not going to know DD's blind or that he has heightened senses so he's not going to use sonics right away. He does have a chance to win due to it, but that's like saying Jack O'Lantern, a superhuman with fire powers and gear, ought to have beaten Elektra. She found ways to get around it because she's very capable and adaptable. She has found ways to do this in multiple contexts against multiple kinds of powers and gear, she has a track record with this. It is reasonable to assume that she (or Daredevil) could potentially do so again. It's not automatic, but in a 2 on 1 situation at very close range, I'm willing to bet they beat him before he manages to get a win through gear.

4. Zero chance? What happened to Batman goin' all kindz a' crazy? I thought that was the potential threat here: Damian does, Batman goes nuts? Being more angry doesn't mean anything. Losing morals does. For instance, when Elektra was killed by Bullseye, Daredevil went all out on him and dropped him off a wire to paralyze him, something that would normally be out of bounds for his character. That's what gave him the advantage in that situation.

That's because she is "something dangerous." She's not the kind of martial artist Batman beats every single day, at all, she's a top level fighter.

@senglord:

Just wanted to throw this out there, but Iron Fist is not behind everyone here in striking power, even off chi. I don't want to rehash the debate I already had so I'll just link to the thread were Bat_Girl_CC and I have already went through a fairly lengthy debate. http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/iron-fist-no-chi-vs-batman-no-gadgets-619787/?page=6

Unless of course you meant that Danny is beyond everyone here in terms of striking power, in that case I completely agree!

@owie

It's getting cancelled! *Picks up trumpet and begins to play taps*

@owie:

1. We have the same impasse as before. None of her feats put her above Batman. Her feats with sais are comparable to his with fists...

2.

IF is way more powerful than everyone on this thread. Context is req. for a serious IF fight against street levelers to be legit.

3.

If most threads have most seasoned viners giving Batman the win over Electra and Daredevil in a one on one, there is a burden to establish how two on one would end much different than the one on one. Especially if Batman's gear is a big reason for his wins in both cases.

4.

If Batman fight Electra he will not kill her. He will win.

If Damien fights Electra, Electra will lose to Batman before she kills Damien or she gets beat to an inch of her life. Damien is being no sold on this thread, and that is unfortunate.

@paragonnate: I argued that IF would STOMP Batman with little effort. That was a massive typo.

@saint_sophie:

How is Damian going to last long enough against Elektra for that to happen? She is superior to him in every way, she doesn't have to kill him to take him out of the fight either, a good punch should do it. Then both Matt and Elektra team up on Batman, and while he can put up a fight with gear, he isn't beating two of Marvel's top street levelers at the same time with no prep.

Batman and Robin should take this. Both Daredevil and Elektra can take out Batman on his own, but with Damian, it should be in favor for the dynamic duo. Batman can take out Daredevil or Elektra (on their own) with relative ease, and the combo of Batman/Robin can take out whoever is the last one standing.

@lamdaddy20:

Thing is though, how is Damian going to last long enough for that to happen? Either DD or Elektra have the showings to give Batman a decent fight, DD might even take a few wins out of ten. Elektra has the showings to put up a fight at least. Damian doesn't have any showings that suggest that he should even be in the city while these three are fighting, much less participating in the fight itself. Either DD or Elektra are capable of one-shotting Damian in a non-lethal manner (cause I doubt even Elektra would normally kill a kid, much less when Matt is around) then helping their teammate take on Bruce. Bruce is above either of them in terms of skill, but he doesn't use gadgets to the extend that he would need in order for him to beat two of Marvel's top street levelers at the same time.

@paragonnate: The problem with that argument is that he would even need time. Batman's armor is more durable than any of his damage output. And that would make it possible for him to deploy any of his countermeasures at zero distance and not be incapacitated. Bombs, smoke, incendiary, knockout gas, sonic disrupters, cryogenic weapons, fear toxin, the f'ing works. Melee will not work when Damian goes down. It will take an opponent above Nightwing to one shot Damian. And Batman would automatically resort to tech if it did happen.

Knockout gas or a taster would drop Matt or Elektra pretty quick and Bruce uses that all the time.

name some street fighters that have beaten him before I'm interested

anyway i think batman and robin would win because they got better gadgets and there suits are more protective. they also got that cape stun. also yes i agree batman can be a bit overrated especially the fact people commenting on the topics about superman vs batman movie oh batman is going to win he's had 3 chances of doing it which is stupid in many ways. but batman is still one of the most clever cunning street fighters in comic books he has mastered almost all the styles in martial arts and knows all the weak positions. he also has other gadgets that are not things that you throw like electric gloves and explosive gel which can come in hand.

@atrocitustheferocious: isn't death stroke a street level character?

@medulaoblaganda: Yes he is, a very very very deadly one.

@digitalshooter9: o you made my day

oh yeah he kinda is though I'm not sure if his syrup that makes him 9 times stronger and 9 times intellectual than an ordinary man is considered a superpower or not, but still thats only like 2 street levellers i said 2 cos i just noticed bane

@atrocitustheferocious: anyways, batman will barely win after a very tough fight. daredevil is also a professionally trained marshal artist same with Electra. they are dumb fighters. they are both good at dodging especially Electra. you do know Electra has a powerful silent chi base scream it was Originally used by Shang-Chi, By focusing on her Chi and puckering her lips together Electra can use this technique to perform a High pitched scream that can render a person Permanently deaf, and/or by furthering focusing on one target can kill. isn't this scan sweat? any ways am rooting for Electra against batman. Electra will give batman one hell of a fight.

@lxlgiftedlxl: yes he is a very deadly one. what makes you think Electra ain't a deadly fighter? she is bad ass. i can even pit are against death stroke himself and she might come out victorious. she has fought deadly characters that surpass what dead stroke as fought in his comics.

@comicstooge: Didn't see this till now…notifications must be out of wack again.

Batman isn't kicking her to the curb where Wolverine failed to. It's just not happening.

@senglord:

DD has thrown his billy clubs hard enough to embed them in solid concrete, had them ricochet off several surfaces and then still have enough force to knock out opponents. DD has thrown a 400 pound dumbbell like it was nothing, even tipped a limo over on his own (although this is a high end showing). He has the strength and striking power to hurt Bruce, not even sure why you brought it up. Bruce is regularly hurt by other street levelers, armor or no. Elektra has easily punched through/cur body armor with her sais with no effort on her part, she has the damage output to hurt Bruce.

As for the gear you mentioned.

Bombs: DD regularly fight against (and occasionally with) Punisher, Matt is no stranger when it comes to fighting against opponents with access to explosive devices. Neither is Elektra for that matter. Added to this is the question of, how often does Bruce use these against people he doesn't know?

Smoke: Smoke against DD...really? I'm fairly certain that I don't have to explain why this wouldn't work. It might put Elektra off long enough for Bruce to get the drop on her and quickly ko her, however she has training to fight blind and has experience fighting ninjas who commonly employ this and similar tactics. I don't see it happening as often as you might think. I'm not saying it won't work at all, I just don't see it happening every fight.

Incendiary: How often does he use these against (you know the drill)? See my analysis for bombs as to how DD and Elektra respond to these.

knockout gas: How is he going to get DD ad Elektra into a position where this would be useful? Seeing as they have to inhale the stuff for it to work. Granted they could mistake it for a smoke pellet and inhale it that way, but still I would assume they would avoid smoke anyway under the pretense that their opponent may have attempted to set some sort of trap using the smoke to hide it. Matt and Elektra aren't exactly rookies.

sonics: These aren't necessarily and auto-win against DD, he has pushed through the pain these cause on numerous occasions and kept fighting. Granted they could give Batman the opening he needs to drop either Mat or Elektra that much faster. But again I ask, how often does Bruce use these against people he doesn't know, or how often does he use these period?

Cryo weapons: How powerful are these, how often does Bruce use them? How are they deployed, are they pellets, a gun system like Mr. Freeze? How rapidly do they affect their target, is there an effect radius? When Bruce uses these how does he use them, does he affect the environment to cause a reaction that will affect an opponent, does he use it directly on his opponents? "Data data data, I can not make bricks without clay." - Sherlock Holmes.

Fear toxin: This could definitely effect DD or Elektra, then again does Bruce use it often against people he doesn't know? Considering the effect it generally has on people. Elektra has died and literally gone to hell, I'm fairly certain that the toxin has little to show her that she hasn't already seen. DD also has impressive willpower, it would certainly effect him (the toxin that is) but he could power through it if he has a chance, or maybe he wouldn't I'm not sure. This could give Bats the win, but once again, how often does he employ this tactic?

DD is above Nightwing and is fully capable of one shotting Damian in a wide variety of ways. He could take Damian out with a nerve strike, punch him, ricochet a billy club to come behind Robin and knock him out. DD one shots Damian fairly easily and with little trouble. Elektra can also take out Damian, he might give her a little trouble seeing as she is slightly below DD, but in the end he isn't going to hold out long enough for Batman to beat DD then come help him. It ends the other way around, with Elektra downing Damian and then teaming up on Bruce with Matt. How exactly will melee not work ehn Damian goes down, Bruce is certainly going to be furious, but last time I checked he isn't the Hulk and he doesn't get some sort of power up when he gets angry. On top of that when will he get a chance to get a moment to employ his tech while getting double teamed by two of Marvel's top street levelers? He isn't hiding from DD even if he does manage to get away. I'm not saying he couldn't create an opening to use tech, I just see it as being very unlikely. Seeing as both have the capacity to hurt and affect him with their strikes and he isn't escaping or vanishing via stealth, given DD and Elektra's training as ninjas and Matt's radar sense.

@comicstooge

See my post to seng for my response to knockout gas. How is he going to hit DD with the taser, he isn't ambushing Matt and I don't see him hitting DD were more accurate characters have failed to do so. Elektra also has solid avoidance/deflection feats that make hitting her at range fairly unlikely. I'm assuming of course, that this is some slightly modified regular taser that he has tinkered with, rather than some super awesome godly bat-taser that tracks highly agile and skilled targets with super-senses and one hit ko's them.

@paragonnate: so much anger.

You speak of Batman getting hurt by lower level opponents than Team Marvel like the same could not be said for Matt nor Electra...

You mention the high end feats for Matt and ignore that Batman has better high end feats.

And Batman has used Sonics and fear toxin on fodder, he could use it here.

Here’s how I see it happening:

Elektra and Damian both quickly recognize their shared assassin training from their movements, and pair off together. Likewise the alpha males Batman and Daredevil pair off.

They are at 30’ and move in quickly towards each other. All four have ranged weapons but they’re pretty close, I doubt they’ll throw them. Elektra and Daredevil are less likely to throw, as their throwing weapons are the same as their melee weapons. Or, if DD throws, he’ll do it so it bounces back. Robin and Batman have numerous batarangs so they’re less worried about running out of weapons, and might throw, but DD and Elektra will certainly dodge.

Elektra will quickly dominate Damian, who she beats in every category. She’s faster, stronger, more agile, more durable, and more skilled.

Meanwhile Daredevil and Batman will get into a more full-throated battle. They are more or less equals in skill. Batman has advantages in his more heavily-armored costume and his utility belt, although in a melee fight like this I doubt he’s going to bring out the gear right away. Still DD will have a more difficult time hurting him through the armor. DD’s advantages include his billy clubs, which can also extend into a staff, so he has a reach advantage, plus his better agility and radar sense, which will enable him to dodge more of Batman’s attacks than vice versa. This fight will last a long time.

However Elektra is going to run over after beating Damian, and in a two-on-one fight they’re going to overwhelm him. Batman could still take some wins by going with his gear, but fighting against two characters as skilled as Elektra and Daredevil isn’t going to give him a lot of time to use it, his focus is going to be taken up just defending himself against them. Some of the gear may work against them, such as a sonic attack, but he’s not likely to figure out that Daredevil is blind, given that Daredevil has faced numerous foes over his lifetime who have never figured this out. Using smoke won’t help against the team, and may actually give them an advantage since he will assume they’re blinded. Tasers are dodgable. They're too close for knockout gas. Batman will be enraged, of course, but since they’ve both fought plenty of berserkers before, like Wolverine, that’s not going to make a huge difference.

Over time, Elektra and Daredevil take down the Dark Knight.

@paragonnate: Nice.

Also, here are some opinions on Elektra's abilities, from those who should know. I want to harp on her because the only real question in this fight, I think, is whether Elektra can defeat Damian fast enough to join DD in time for their team-up to win.

What does Wolverine, with tons of training in Japanese martial arts, and who was re-trained by her after he was in a feral state, think of her? "World's greatest ninja."

What does Iron Man, in this scene the Director of SHIELD, and who should have a good awareness of world-level threats? "Most dangerous assassin on the planet."

What does SHIELD think about how dangerous she is to a helicarrier? "Omega level threat."

Notice the lack of qualifiers. No "one of the" here. Just "the" or "omega."

@senglord:

I'm not angry at all. I didn't mention the fact that Batman can hurt DD and Elektra because it is blatantly obvious that he can. No one here possesses a superhuman level of durability, meaning that they all are capable of hurting and affecting each other with their strikes. The point was to show that Bruce's armor isn't going to allow him to no sell blows from either of them in order to give him the moment he needs to access his gear. The only high end feat for Matt that I brought up was him tipping the limo on his own (which I admitted was high end anyway), the other stuff is pretty standard for him. Of course Batman has superior high end feats, he's on a level above DD and a level or two above Elektra. But we don't count just the high end showings, we count his showings that happen with the most regularity.

Batman has obviously used his gadgets, otherwise people wouldn't be mentioning them. The question is how often does he use the ones that would be especially helpful here? He may have used them on fodder, but has he used them on named characters that he doesn't have general knowledge on, with a high level of regularity. A high enough level that would show beyond a doubt that he would use them often enough here to carry his team against two of Marvel's top street levelers.

@owie

Thanks, doing a pretty good job yourself. :D

@paragonnate: He's got a taser in his glove. Literally all he needs to do is touch either of them.

It would definitely be worth picking up in trades through. But yeah, it sucks that it's being cut.