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#1 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Fist (without using the iron Fist power) vs Shang Chi vs Captain America (without shield - before his death) vs Daredevil

Setting: Disused warehouse.

To the death.

#2 Posted by Satyrquaze (4542 posts) - - Show Bio

What, no Moondragon?

#3 Posted by fesak (6981 posts) - - Show Bio

or Gamora, Shen Kuei, Slaymaster and Taskmaster?

Moderator
#4 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

so no iron fist powers for ironfist? including healing and hypnosis etc?

#5 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

Rotten gun says:

"so no iron fist powers for ironfist? including healing and hypnosis etc?"

I guess he just wants a display of fighting prowess.

#6 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

What no Black Panther, Night Thrasher, Elektra, Echo,

#7 Posted by Zaraki Ichigo (6476 posts) - - Show Bio

From the list given? The Hulk.

Jk. I would put my money one Shang.

#8 Posted by Mantid (4418 posts) - - Show Bio

He forgot about a whole lot of martial artists, also Batman, no wait, he's from DC.

#9 Posted by Zaraki Ichigo (6476 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't let the title fool you. I think he was only wanting these people to fight, no one else.

#10 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi wins. Because I would write the story and give Shang Chi his propers amidst the good ol boys.

#11 Posted by The WeatherMan (3214 posts) - - Show Bio

The Batman walks in and owns all of then in less than 10 seconds.

Haha, jk. Captain America.

1

#12 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Bronze Tiger comes in after Bats and 'owns'him ha ha jk he beats Cap up and loses to Shang Chi.

#13 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

This list could be alot better.

#14 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

No Mister X? I'm disappointed.

#15 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

What about Deadpool?

#16 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

What about Red Sonja? Shanna?

#17 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Would Mystique be classified as a martial artist?

#18 Posted by Zaraki Ichigo (6476 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, present company only, unless he says to add new fighters.

#19 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Cap. To quote what was said about him. "He'll pull through... He always does"

#20 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Every X-man and Avenger is a martial artist

#21 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Zaraki Ichigo says:

"Again, present company only, unless he says to add new fighters."

Yeeeeaahh I'm gonna go ahead and add somebody anyways. Night Thrasher wins after barely beating Mystique.

#22 Posted by GL Bertron (3708 posts) - - Show Bio

In a battle of pure hand to hand I still say Shang wins

#23 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi could not beat Captain America!

#24 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

I know! Your Right Cap America is your girlfriend and thus unbeatable!

I'm sorry! Please forgive my impertinence! Shang Chi is the worst Marvel martial artist!

I wonder his purpose in the MU? Sorry again! Just rambling!

#25 Posted by GL Bertron (3708 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi is a rediculously good martial artist who saved Cap's @$$ from Paladine during Civil War.

#26 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah GL bring Shang into te fore front. Who else on the list catches bullets bare handed no powers.(I might be mistaken about that).

#27 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Sling Shot says:

"I know! Your Right Cap America is your girlfriend and thus unbeatable! I'm sorry! Please forgive my impertinence! Shang Chi is the worst Marvel martial artist! I wonder his purpose in the MU? Sorry again! Just rambling!"
A. Captain America though maybe not as skilled in Kung-Fu as Shang-Chi, is an extremely skilled combatant! B. Captain America is Almost superhumanly strong able to lift 800lbs. He is stronger than any of the Worlds Strongest men who ever competed. C. To go along with his strength is reaction time is 10 times faster than a normal mans. D. He has almost supehuman endurance because of the Supersoldier serum. Shang-Chi is quick, but he isn't 10 times faster than a normal man PERIOD. Shang Chi is probably stronger than average, but he isn't the pinnacle of Human strength PERIOD. Shang Chi has great endurance, but he doesn't have super soldier serum in his blood! Shang Chi knows more Kung-fu...SO WHAT, Cap is so much stronger and YES FASTER than shang-chi, that his slightly superior skill is a NON-FACTOR. As soon as you realize that Captain America is a PERFECT MAN, he is right on the line of superhuman in every category and Shang CHi is not!
Post Edited:2007-07-23 21:12:36
#29 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

VAlkaad , chill baby. Me and my racist heart wanna give you a digital hug.

Ready? Hunhhh....aaahhh.

Cap is great. You know it and I know it.

SHang CHi till the casket drops!

#30 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

I see that you edited your original post. Omitting the statement about me dropping to my knees for characters and possesing a racist heart. Any particular reason?

#31 Posted by Lady Tlieso (10198 posts) - - Show Bio

what about psylocke??

#32 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - - Show Bio

What about... The Muffin Man!

#33 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

what about him?

#34 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

Sling Shot says:

"I see that you edited your original post. Omitting the statement about me dropping to my knees for characters and possesing a racist heart. Any particular reason?"

Yeah, I didn't mean to go overboard!

#35 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool.

#36 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

i hate to say it but without any iron fist powers i reluctantly give the fight to..... shang chi :( shang chi has defeated an early iron fist (in the 70s)

#37 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Shang Chi! Can you feel the love on the vine!?

#38 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Shang get his ass whuped by Wolverine?

#39 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Yep I think so. I read that some where. But Wolverine reallyu is a better Martial artist than the vine has given him credit for. Or, the writers were tripping and didn't realize it was Shang Chi they had fighting against Wolvie.

#40 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambler says:

"Sling Shot says:
"Yep I think so. I read that some where. But Wolverine reallyu is a better Martial artist than the vine has given him credit for. Or, the writers were tripping and didn't realize it was Shang Chi they had fighting against Wolvie."
He used to be, they really dont show him as much more then a brawler. In the old 80's comics he was always fighting ninjas, and I believe he is supposed to know the way of the Samurai but he doesn't act like it."

yeah thats really funny cause he's chinese

#41 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Sling Shot says:

"Yep I think so. I read that some where. But Wolverine reallyu is a better Martial artist than the vine has given him credit for. Or, the writers were tripping and didn't realize it was Shang Chi they had fighting against Wolvie."

He used to be, they really dont show him as much more then a brawler. In the old 80's comics he was always fighting ninjas, and I believe he is supposed to know the way of the Samurai but he doesn't act like it.

#42 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Rotten gun says:

"Gambler says:
"Sling Shot says:
"Yep I think so. I read that some where. But Wolverine reallyu is a better Martial artist than the vine has given him credit for. Or, the writers were tripping and didn't realize it was Shang Chi they had fighting against Wolvie."
He used to be, they really dont show him as much more then a brawler. In the old 80's comics he was always fighting ninjas, and I believe he is supposed to know the way of the Samurai but he doesn't act like it."

yeah thats really funny cause he's chinese"

I thought he was Canadian?

#43 Posted by Rotten gun (2509 posts) - - Show Bio

just shows you how generalised characters were in the 70s and 80s, and its about the time shogun came out so i guess every martial artist had the spirit of the samurai and the daily battle with ninja

#44 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"Sling Shot says:
"I know! Your Right Cap America is your girlfriend and thus unbeatable! I'm sorry! Please forgive my impertinence! Shang Chi is the worst Marvel martial artist! I wonder his purpose in the MU? Sorry again! Just rambling!"
A. Captain America though maybe not as skilled in Kung-Fu as Shang-Chi, is an extremely skilled combatant! B. Captain America is Almost superhumanly strong able to lift 800lbs. He is stronger than any of the Worlds Strongest men who ever competed. C. To go along with his strength is reaction time is 10 times faster than a normal mans. D. He has almost supehuman endurance because of the Supersoldier serum. Shang-Chi is quick, but he isn't 10 times faster than a normal man PERIOD. Shang Chi is probably stronger than average, but he isn't the pinnacle of Human strength PERIOD. Shang Chi has great endurance, but he doesn't have super soldier serum in his blood! Shang Chi knows more Kung-fu...SO WHAT, Cap is so much stronger and YES FASTER than shang-chi, that his slightly superior skill is a NON-FACTOR. As soon as you realize that Captain America is a PERFECT MAN, he is right on the line of superhuman in every category and Shang CHi is not!
Post Edited:2007-07-23 21:12:36"

Cap has a reaction time 10 times faster than a normal human. That sounds a lot like 'super speed' to me.

I don't remember that figure being quoted anywhere before. Yes he is faster than a normal human for reaction time but 10 times. I doubt it. More like 2 times faster.

A Martial Artists speed comes not from the fact that 'he's actually much quicker' but that he has trained his mind and body to perceive and react to the danger as fast as humanly possible. Most normal people percieve - think and then react - which adds precious fractions of a second (say 0.75 - 1 second in total). A martial artist reacts at around the 0.25 - 0.5 second range.

Admittidly Cap does have the edge on endurance but Shang is also at the peak level for a top athelete so should be able to fight solidly for maybe upto 30 mins.

Finally Shang has shone in the past to be able to manipulate his ch'i (inner energy for different effects like boosting strength) for short feats. This could be useful at a critical moment in the battle.

#45 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting discussion points from everyone.

Well relying on hand-to-hand combat - no weapons (that includes the Iron Fist) - it is an interesting battle.

Shang Chi has caught a bullet (and deflected them in the past) and appeared to be 'accepted' as a superior MA to Iron Fist (way back in the 70’s).

I'm benching Daredevil, who although hugely talented would I think eventually lose to the others on this list (my opinion).

I also kind of favour Shang Chi to beat Iron Fist eventually.

That leaves it between Cap and Shang.

I think that Shang is more talented than Cap (Shang is not only the foremost Kung Fu expert but is a master of many other styles) and can do more martial artist type things (like manipulate his Ch’i).

However I cannot get away from the fact that Cap has some physical advantages that cannot be overlooked. That and although not so classically trained, Cap has been trained in many different fighting styles and has combined their best elements to create a unique fighting style. Plus he has so much experience, I think that he may win through.

#46 Posted by Valkaad (2589 posts) - - Show Bio

The_Creator says:

"Valkaad says:
"Sling Shot says:
"I know! Your Right Cap America is your girlfriend and thus unbeatable! I'm sorry! Please forgive my impertinence! Shang Chi is the worst Marvel martial artist! I wonder his purpose in the MU? Sorry again! Just rambling!"
A. Captain America though maybe not as skilled in Kung-Fu as Shang-Chi, is an extremely skilled combatant! B. Captain America is Almost superhumanly strong able to lift 800lbs. He is stronger than any of the Worlds Strongest men who ever competed. C. To go along with his strength is reaction time is 10 times faster than a normal mans. D. He has almost supehuman endurance because of the Supersoldier serum. Shang-Chi is quick, but he isn't 10 times faster than a normal man PERIOD. Shang Chi is probably stronger than average, but he isn't the pinnacle of Human strength PERIOD. Shang Chi has great endurance, but he doesn't have super soldier serum in his blood! Shang Chi knows more Kung-fu...SO WHAT, Cap is so much stronger and YES FASTER than shang-chi, that his slightly superior skill is a NON-FACTOR. As soon as you realize that Captain America is a PERFECT MAN, he is right on the line of superhuman in every category and Shang CHi is not!
Post Edited:2007-07-23 21:12:36"
Cap has a reaction time 10 times faster than a normal human. That sounds a lot like 'super speed' to me. I don't remember that figure being quoted anywhere before. Yes he is faster than a normal human for reaction time but 10 times. I doubt it. More like 2 times faster. A Martial Artists speed comes not from the fact that 'he's actually much quicker' but that he has trained his mind and body to perceive and react to the danger as fast as humanly possible. Most normal people percieve - think and then react - which adds precious fractions of a second (say 0.75 - 1 second in total). A martial artist reacts at around the 0.25 - 0.5 second range. Admittidly Cap does have the edge on endurance but Shang is also at the peak level for a top athelete so should be able to fight solidly for maybe upto 30 mins. Finally Shang has shone in the past to be able to manipulate his ch'i (inner energy for different effects like boosting strength) for short feats. This could be useful at a critical moment in the battle. "

Cap's reaction time is 10 times faster that is a quote from the marvel universe, so you can doubt it all you want to but you would be wrong.

Cap has mastered boxing and judo both of which are "martial" arts so he also has an master martial artists ability to react and anticipate moves just as Shang-Chi.

Cap can lift 800 pounds normally, not adrenaline or "rage" enhanced, so if his adrenaline were flowing he would be even stronger.

Most people want to see cap as a strong bruiser type fighter because he is so big and muscular and someone like shang-chi as quick and agile, but this is not the case! Like it or not Captain America IS faster/quicker/more reflexive than Shang-Chi. Even if you think shang-chi is more trained, you cannot argue that cap isn't a master hand to hand combatant, so if you combine Cap's mastery with his far superior reflexes, Shang-Chi is toast! I don't know if you every watch worlds strongest man contests, but imagine if you almost doubled one of those guys strength, then gave them at least 5 times the hand eye/reaction time/quickness of Bruce Lee and add on top of that that they are a Master of several forms of Hand to Hand, that's Captain America in a nut shell. IF you think Shang-Chi really stands a chance you are fooling yourself. Cap is so much faster,quicker,and stronger that if he really wanted to be brutal about it, he could just shoot in on shang-chi and break his neck like a twig.

#47 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

Honk Kong Fooey would spank Cap.

#48 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

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#49 Posted by Sling Shot (3562 posts) - - Show Bio

On the real though Cap is ridiculous and Karate Kid is even crazier.

I would like to see the anime/manga version of Cap or Karate Kid.Or better yet a Jademan version.

#50 Posted by the creator (8577 posts) - - Show Bio

Valkaad says:

"The_Creator says:
"Valkaad says:
"Sling Shot says:
"I know! Your Right Cap America is your girlfriend and thus unbeatable! I'm sorry! Please forgive my impertinence! Shang Chi is the worst Marvel martial artist! I wonder his purpose in the MU? Sorry again! Just rambling!"
A. Captain America though maybe not as skilled in Kung-Fu as Shang-Chi, is an extremely skilled combatant! B. Captain America is Almost superhumanly strong able to lift 800lbs. He is stronger than any of the Worlds Strongest men who ever competed. C. To go along with his strength is reaction time is 10 times faster than a normal mans. D. He has almost supehuman endurance because of the Supersoldier serum. Shang-Chi is quick, but he isn't 10 times faster than a normal man PERIOD. Shang Chi is probably stronger than average, but he isn't the pinnacle of Human strength PERIOD. Shang Chi has great endurance, but he doesn't have super soldier serum in his blood! Shang Chi knows more Kung-fu...SO WHAT, Cap is so much stronger and YES FASTER than shang-chi, that his slightly superior skill is a NON-FACTOR. As soon as you realize that Captain America is a PERFECT MAN, he is right on the line of superhuman in every category and Shang CHi is not!
Post Edited:2007-07-23 21:12:36"
Cap has a reaction time 10 times faster than a normal human. That sounds a lot like 'super speed' to me. I don't remember that figure being quoted anywhere before. Yes he is faster than a normal human for reaction time but 10 times. I doubt it. More like 2 times faster. A Martial Artists speed comes not from the fact that 'he's actually much quicker' but that he has trained his mind and body to perceive and react to the danger as fast as humanly possible. Most normal people percieve - think and then react - which adds precious fractions of a second (say 0.75 - 1 second in total). A martial artist reacts at around the 0.25 - 0.5 second range. Admittidly Cap does have the edge on endurance but Shang is also at the peak level for a top athelete so should be able to fight solidly for maybe upto 30 mins. Finally Shang has shone in the past to be able to manipulate his ch'i (inner energy for different effects like boosting strength) for short feats. This could be useful at a critical moment in the battle. "
Cap's reaction time is 10 times faster that is a quote from the marvel universe, so you can doubt it all you want to but you would be wrong. Cap has mastered boxing and judo both of which are "martial" arts so he also has an master martial artists ability to react and anticipate moves just as Shang-Chi. Cap can lift 800 pounds normally, not adrenaline or "rage" enhanced, so if his adrenaline were flowing he would be even stronger. Most people want to see cap as a strong bruiser type fighter because he is so big and muscular and someone like shang-chi as quick and agile, but this is not the case! Like it or not Captain America IS faster/quicker/more reflexive than Shang-Chi. Even if you think shang-chi is more trained, you cannot argue that cap isn't a master hand to hand combatant, so if you combine Cap's mastery with his far superior reflexes, Shang-Chi is toast! I don't know if you every watch worlds strongest man contests, but imagine if you almost doubled one of those guys strength, then gave them at least 5 times the hand eye/reaction time/quickness of Bruce Lee and add on top of that that they are a Master of several forms of Hand to Hand, that's Captain America in a nut shell. IF you think Shang-Chi really stands a chance you are fooling yourself. Cap is so much faster,quicker,and stronger that if he really wanted to be brutal about it, he could just shoot in on shang-chi and break his neck like a twig."

Actually I have read and to a certain degree memorised the old marvel handbooks.

It does not say that Cap has 10 times the reaction speed of a normal human.

It does say that his physical abilities are above those of olympic atheletes.

Remember that in the same handbooks Quicksilver is described as having a reaction time only 5 times faster than a normal human. Now I know that was inaccurate. Spiderman was quoted at approx 15 times the reaction speed of a normal human. So Cap being pitched between the two - there's something wrong there.

Cap has peak human reaction speed. Not enhnaced reaction speed.

Please re-read my previous posting. Most humans can react at similar speeds - try the 'catching the ruler trick'. Many people miss or just catch it. The speed of the Martial Artist comes from his perception of his opponent and his 'semi' automated reaction to it. Nerve impulses travel down a trained atheletes arm at the same speed as a couch potatoes arem. The athelets muscles may enable his arm to move swifter in response is all.

Perhaps Cap has got a maximised nerve reaction but again I don't think that it would be 10 times faster. His nerve transmitters would be superhuman and the core focus of Cap was that he was a peak ability human.

I don't disagree about Cap's strength. As a matter of fact I know quite alot about 'Strongmen' - my Grandfather was one. For Cap to have peak human strength (for his size) then lifting 800 lbs is correct. You can get much bigger men than Cap who have strength approaching that of Cap. Cap is peak human for his size and nothing else.

Also my statement saying that Cap has not been classically trained as much as Shang Chi, alluded to the fact that although he has studied Judo, Boxing and Wrestling and combiened them with acrobatics to create a unique fighting style, Shang has been trained in say a dozen martial arts and so may have a greater repository of accpeted MA moves. This does not deter from Cap but recognises Shang's prowess.