#8
Posted by Dernman
(11345 posts)
- 1 year, 4 months ago
- Show Bio
Team 2 Cap and Batman stalemate each other and Black Widow kick the living tar out of Batwoman. She then proceeds to help Cap. Noway Batman's taking them both.
Widow overbalances this. She takes out Kane, then helps Hawkeye finish Batwing, and then they tripleteam Bats. Cap could finish it against Bruce alone, but it would take a while.
This, no one in team 2 is really known for their prep anyways. Besides unless Cap goes to avengers for help building devices Batman should have a larger arrary of weapons which he could use.
@Killemall: I think the rules say that if equipment isn't suggested then assume standard equipment.
nope.. With prep you can bring anything you have access to.
Now that's just stupid and leaves to a very poor debate. If we assume they can bring anything they can, then Steve would just bring the infinity gem he is holding onto and Batman brings his insider suit.
Lets be real here, it would have to be standard gear because that is "in character."
If you had said no preparation, I'd definitely answer Team 2, but now I do have to say Team 1. Batman will find a way to even the scales and organize their defeat.
@Killemall: I think the rules say that if equipment isn't suggested then assume standard equipment.
nope.. With prep you can bring anything you have access to.
Now that's just stupid and leaves to a very poor debate. If we assume they can bring anything they can, then Steve would just bring the infinity gem he is holding onto and Batman brings his insider suit.
Lets be real here, it would have to be standard gear because that is "in character."
@super_psycho: And where does it say that specifically if there is prep time then they get anything in their arsenal? I know it's as hard as interpreting some of the dumbest laws we have here in the US, but it takes some form of common sense.
Is it in their character to rush and grab their strongest weapon if they only have 1 hour? I don't think Batman has anything that can defeat the time gem because with it Steve Rogers would pretty much be like Zoom.
@super_psycho: And where does it say that specifically if there is prep time then they get anything in their arsenal? I know it's as hard as interpreting some of the dumbest laws we have here in the US, but it takes some form of common sense.
Is it in their character to rush and grab their strongest weapon if they only have 1 hour? I don't think Batman has anything that can defeat the time gem because with it Steve Rogers would pretty much be like Zoom.
i was only pointing out that if there is no information given then they have standard equipment. the same does not apply when there is prep time.
@super_psycho: And where does it say that specifically if there is prep time then they get anything in their arsenal? I know it's as hard as interpreting some of the dumbest laws we have here in the US, but it takes some form of common sense.
In that case the amount of prep would not even be relevant- or rather less important. I am actually an huge Batman fan, still I think team 2 got this.
i've always assumed prep time simply meant time to study your opponents and formulate a battle plan to beat them...not bringing in some super weapon, or else, "prep with standard equipment" would be an oxymoron. Having said that, i'm assuming they're using standard equip which means it goes like this
Black Widow beats Batwoman pretty easily
Hawkeye beats Batwing with some dificulty
Batman i think can beat Cap. or at least stalemate him
however eventually the numbers game will take Bats out
@super_psycho: But where does it say that in the rules? I'm trying to interpret the rules as best as I can and it doesn't say anything about prep time, no gear stated then any gear at disposal. I do see that assume the characters are in character, and I think it would be out of character for this fight to go with their full arsenal of equipment.
If there's a problem then lets just agree that there's 2 scenarios here, one not worth debating because Batman gets the insider suit, Steve grabs the time gem.
And lets assume one that is worth debating, where they have standard gear. Which makes the best debate of these two scenarios, lets decide and move on from there.
I have to say team 2. Cap and Bats are pretty much a stalemate, but I think Cap may have a slight advantage. Widow over Batwoman, Hawkeye over Batwing.
@super_psycho: But where does it say that in the rules? I'm trying to interpret the rules as best as I can and it doesn't say anything about prep time, no gear stated then any gear at disposal. I do see that assume the characters are in character, and I think it would be out of character for this fight to go with their full arsenal of equipment.
If there's a problem then lets just agree that there's 2 scenarios here, one not worth debating because Batman gets the insider suit, Steve grabs the time gem.
And lets assume one that is worth debating, where they have standard gear. Which makes the best debate of these two scenarios, lets decide and move on from there.
It is stated that if There isn't much information given then assume they have standard gear.
From what have seen in battles: With prep they can bring anything they have access to(depending on situation).. I never said batman is going to bring insider suit but it doesn't have to be standard equipment.
@super_psycho: But that's the point, if we play it out that way someone can say that Batman will just bring out the insider suit and then someone will say that Steve uses the time gem. Regardless if you didn't bring up the insider suit or not.
Lets put all that aside for now and discuss. What leads to the best debate here. Standard gear or anything from the arsenal? Remember, this is just 1 hour of prep.
I think most of us agree that in that 1 hour, batman and Steve probably only have time to gear up with standard gear and then discuss who they will fight with their teammates. If it was 24 hours, that may be a different story.
@super_psycho: But that's the point, if we play it out that way someone can say that Batman will just bring out the insider suit and then someone will say that Steve uses the time gem. Regardless if you didn't bring up the insider suit or not.
Lets put all that aside for now and discuss. What leads to the best debate here. Standard gear or anything from the arsenal? Remember, this is just 1 hour of prep.
I think most of us agree that in that 1 hour, batman and Steve probably only have time to gear up with standard gear and then discuss who they will fight with their teammates. If it was 24 hours, that may be a different story.
It doesn't change anything, They can bring anything they want(depending on situation).
It's not about what we want, it's upto character what he/she(in character) will do with prep time.
If anything then those people need to understand that why will batman or cap bring anything like insider suit or time gem when fighting street level characters.
@super_psycho: I'll ask you again. What makes the best debate.
what they will do in character.
That's right. I'm glad you agree with the majority here.
We go by what they do in character when given time to prepare. It's just like using feats, they're called prep feats. Steve might make an plan of action but wouldn't go out of his way to get special equipment.
Batman, on the other hand, is known for preparing special tactics/equipment for any given situation.
@Void_Paladin: I'd understand that point if it was more than an hour of prep. Heck even 24 hours. But one hour goes by very fast.
Assuming that they are prepping together in Chicago even, they barely have time to even come up with a plan. Also, it'd be pretty bias to give Batman prep where he gets to gather together as much gadgets as possible and assume Steve doesn't get to, we all know his team would win in that case.
The point is that this is the debate forums, and what gives the best debate in this scenario. Or should we just have a bunch of one sentence debates like:
"Batman wins because he gathers together ______ and uses it on the other team."
We all know in this case he's going to win, what's the point of even debating then. If they have standard gear, then 100s of scans and feats can be used to determine who would win because the majority of the feats out there don't involve these characters carrying something special they only carried once but with their standard gear.
I'd understand that point if it was more than an hour of prep. Heck even 24 hours. But one hour goes by very fast.
I wasn't just speaking about this debate, but debates in general. As for this debate, if Batman has full knowledge about who he is fighting then he could reasonably gather a few extra things from the Batcave.
Assuming that they are prepping together in Chicago even, they barely have time to even come up with a plan. Also, it'd be pretty bias to give Batman prep where he gets to gather together as much gadgets as possible and assume Steve doesn't get to, we all know his team would win in that case.
You said it yourself, it's all about what they would do in character. Batman, based on showings, would get together whatever he deemed necessary for the fight. Steve has not been shown to do this.
The point is that this is the debate forums, and what gives the best debate in this scenario. Or should we just have a bunch of one sentence debates like:
A better debate could have been made by not giving anyone here prep at all. Sometimes it can be fun to give a smart character time to prepare against a powerful one and see who people think would win.
"Batman wins because he gathers together ______ and uses it on the other team." We all know in this case he's going to win, what's the point of even debating then. If they have standard gear, then 100s of scans and feats can be used to determine who would win because the majority of the feats out there don't involve these characters carrying something special they only carried once but with their standard gear.
Thing is, some people specify in the OP that the character has prep but must use standard equipment. Sometimes they'll even say something like "this character has access to all of their technology except artifact X" This allows them to use their resources with out it becoming a stomp thread.
Get where most of us are coming from now?
I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes it can be annoying to see prep in a debate it shouldn't be in...like this one. In this case, all the combatants are street levelers and only one team has a really good prep guy on it. I agree that if the OP kept it restricted to standard equipment than this particular thread could be more entertaining. However, when debating characters like Reed Richards, many of his showings/feats do not come from standard equipment. If we restricted all prep threads to standard equipment, than Reed would lose to a lot of people that, given enough time to prepare, he should be able to beat easily. This is all based on how he is portrayed "in character" in the FF comics.
@Void_Paladin: I do see where you're coming from, but Batman has been written to go in with standard gear to his villains hideouts more often than not which I have seen him.
Again, back to my main point. We'd all agree that he would win in that case, and again there's not that much of a debate to debate about.
So should we just not debate and everyone goes "Batman wins with the 1 hour of prep because he brings in gear that can defeat them all."
If you want, blame it on the OP (@Captain13: ) for making a potentially good topic but lacking in any sort of detail.
I'm not going to debate this any longer, you can debate as you please.
My final verdict: Steve and Batman are close to stalemate due to Batman's gear being more advanced than what Steve has but Steve is physically superior.
Black Widow has clsoe to over 50 to 70 years of pure combat training and experience due to the cold war and easily takes out Batwoman who has roughly only 4 to 6 years max of military training.
Hawkeye takes out batwing due to his standard gear of trick arrows easily dealing with Batwing's limited experience.
In the event that Batman gets to prep how he pleases while for what ever reason Steve just makes a strategy only then Batman's team will win by PIS.
Even more PIS, if they bring their strongest thing at their disposal then Steve takes it the time gem.
@SlimJ87D: They can both prepare however he like. The thing is comics show us how they like to prepare. Steve would not "in character" bring the time gem. Batman would "in character" bring any item he deemed necessary for the fight. You are correct, he goes in to many villains lairs with standard equipment. This is not the case if he knows he's going to be fighting someone like Clay face or almost any JLA enemy.
We have to debate based on what the OP gives us. Not what we think would be "better rules" for this topic. As for my prediction, I think that even without resorting to his "best" equipment, Batman is simply superior to everyone on the opposing team when it comes to preparing for a situation. That alone stacks the odds in his teams favor.
@SlimJ87D: They can both prepare however he like. The thing is comics show us how they like to prepare. Steve would not "in character" bring the time gem. Batman would "in character" bring any item he deemed necessary for the fight. You are correct, he goes in to many villains lairs with standard equipment. This is not the case if he knows he's going to be fighting someone like Clay face or almost any JLA enemy.
We have to debate based on what the OP gives us. Not what we think would be "better rules" for this topic. As for my prediction, I think that even without resorting to his "best" equipment, Batman is simply superior to everyone on the opposing team when it comes to preparing for a situation. That alone stacks the odds in his teams favor.
That is not true at all, we have to go by the rules this forum set up and I honestly think that there is a loop hole in our case here but the majority have accepted that standard equipment would be best suited for the debate. There are a bunch of parts in the rules for this forum that guide us on what to debate about if the OP leaves out information, it just so happens that it's not quite clear as to what we should use as gear if prep time is involved. Either way, I covered all scenarios in my last post and am done with this topic but will ask a moderator to update the post rules on the matter.
Avengers take it based on team experience. In a situation like this Hawkeye, Cap, and Widow would just fall into form. Batman meanwhile would be trying to plan and give orders and it goes like this: Hawkeye shoots arrow at batman's feet... Flashbang. Cap KOs batman with shield. Batwing goes at Cap. Hawkeye hits him with an emp arrow before he runs into caps shield and as this all was going down Widow has beaten Batwoman... badly.
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