Batman vs Winter Soldier

WS curb stomps Batman. Batgod is in slow burn right now due to othet characters becoming popular on the big screen. No one other than a few Bat fan boys think Batman can beat anyone. After watching the WS Thers no dought WS can beat any version of Batman.

WS stomps

Isn't Bucky a little bit above Cap in terms of martial skill? If not equal. (Discounting Cap's SSS)

@american_dragon: in this scenario, I have to side with Bucky. Winter Soldier's training is on par if not higher than Deathstroke's training, and Slade has beaten Batman before. Plus, Bucky has his metal arm as well as guns, which give him near instant win since Winter Soldier's training in combat, stealth, and marksmanship are all on Black Ops level of threatening. I cannot in good conscience give Bruce the win, but I can see where you're coming from

Metal arm , with the guns give WS the advantage. I don't see Batman taking this.

Batman

Bucky should take it with some trouble.

AAAAAAAAAND the moment someone actually comes here and proves that Batman decisively beats Bucky we're gonna see the same old Batfanboyism accusations get thrown around,maybe even get a few threads about him being overrated.

Batman wins handily,he outclasses Bucky completely.

possibly bucky can win but I wouldn't count bruce out

"Batman is a better fighter"

Really? I guess the 70 fucking plus years WS has spent studying to become an assassin and straight up ghosting mofos doesnt qualify him to have at least slightly better fighting skills than Batman, (who has probably been training for maybe 20 years). smh. Batman fanboys are almost as insufferable as Superman fanboys.

Bucky was giving movie Cap (lets face it, cap from the movies is straight up superhuman, none of this "peak physical condition" BS from the writeups. Hes landing from 50 foot jumps like nothing,lifting things that weigh several tons, running 13 miles in about 26 minutes.)a run for his money. So if Batman doesnt have his preciousprep time, Bucky is probably tearing his head off and using those batarangs as steak knives.

@american_dragon: Bucky > Batman at fighting ability, physically superior, metal arm, knows about him, better assassin?? Where is Batman's advantage???

@nfactor1995: Wow that post was embarrassing for you.

Bucky might take it.

@thebourneposter: LOL. We got too many Batman fanboys on this forum. Check out the comment by @aztekk. Explains the rational perspective brilliantly.

@nfactor1995: That guy embarrassed himself too, lol. Firstly, he is apparently using cinematic universe Bucky, who would get rofl stomped. The two contentions in his post were that A) Bucky is more skilled because he has more experience, and B) Bucky has beaten cinematic universe Cap, both ridiculous easily dismantled arguments.

The first point, that experience=more skilled is completely wrong and idiotic. Sure, Bucky has spent seventy years "ghosting mofos" (another word for beating no name fodder) but Batman has the actual feats to show he is more skilled, especially since you are apparently using MCU Bucky. You may have heard of a guy named Ras al Ghul, a guy who has metahuman stats and centuries of experience. Batman routinely defeats him in single combat. Lets compare other notable martial artists they have defeated or stalemated. Batman: Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, David Cain, Deathstroke, Wildcat, ect. Cinematic Universe Bucky: Captain America-lite. So the skill argument of experience=better falls flat on its face.

As for his second point, that Bucky beat MCU Cap who is supposedly superhuman (Even though he didn't perform a single feat I'm confident that Batman couldn't) so Bucky wins, that is a terrible argument too. Just one opponent Batman has beaten who is his superior is Jean Paul Valley. He has meta human stats, deflecting bullets with his sword and gauntlets and possessing strength more than five tons. Batman has defeated him on numerous occasions. Just one example.

Of course, that was all for MCU Bucky, who you apparently think is the one in this fight. I can post another argument for comic Bucky proven Batman would win.

I think it'd be close but I say Bucky wins.

@aztekk:

What's cute is after 70 years of training Bucky still isn't even Marvel's top 25 best Martial artist not even close.

While Bruce has Feats, you know something Bucky doesn't have 75 years of, of fighting the top martial artists in his verse along with being within the top 10 MA in DC.

Batman is faster and has better feats

Playing Devils advocate and saying Bucky

Don't know why people bring up h2h, Bucky is actually pretty tactical and with his weaponry and prep he could set a trap easily enough. Unlike Joker, who always catches batman in his trap, James has no reason to keep Bruce alive. Bucky 6/10

i would give the edge to Bucky. not only does he have that metal arm but he has enhancement similar to the level of captain america. in the MCU (Captain America 2) Bucky was shown to be experimented on by Zola which made his body durable enough to survive a fall of several hundred feet as well as enhanced his speed, reflexes, durability and strength almost to the level of captain america. His metal arm, however is stronger than captain america. If batman were in his standard gear i think the winter soldier would win. One punch in the face by the metal arm it would put a dent in his skull. I mean it is strong enough to punch through solid concrete. If he was in the upgraded suit he used to fight superman that is a different story. While batman is master martial artist, the winter soldier is also considered one. I do think that batman is a better martial artist, but not by the amount that would overwhelm Bucky. In this scenario Bucky wins. I think fans overpower Batman in most threads. Also i like the backstory, but Bucky wouldn't miss haha.

@thebourneposter: u are clearly a batman only fanboy who thinks batman has the power to rule the world. if your trying to create a persuasive argument you have to at least acknowledge the winter soldiers feats. The winter soldier is so skilled he was able to remain a myth for 70 years...and if you think batman is on the same strength level as cap or the winter soldier you are just ignorant. yes i can acknowledge that batman is a master martial artist. but he isn't advanced enough to completely trump everyone. if you are a real fighter as I am you know that strength isn't everything but if your as close in skill as batman is to the winter soldier the enhanced strength makes a tremendous difference. Also the only reason batman was able to defeat all this opponents you said was because he knew ahead of time all of their tactics and strategies. you never see batman just thrown into a fight, that's when he gets punished. Batman has contingency plans for all the justice league members and how to defeat them, we know this, but in the backstory the author said batman had no prep time so he knows nothing of the winter soldier. batman would probably see that he is a human without superpowers so try to confront him h2h, then the winter soldier will punch batman so hard he will have a huge ass dent in his skull.

Also all of you batman fans should read this part: THE ONLY reason batman is portrayed as powerful as he is in the comics is because it gives regular people a symbol to look up to. They made batman a master martial artist because he has no strength enhancements or super powers, so they had to give him something that would justify being a superhero. but batman's real power lies with his brain. he is super intelligent and is the backbone of the justice league because of his brain. so people that argue batman has enhanced strength or strength close to enhanced character just stop because thats not what the writers are intending. they are trying to showcase batman's intelligence. If your trying to look at this realistically like most people should just think that batman is just a man

@thenumber1supersoldier: I'll do my best to respond to these rambling blocks of text.

heres my response to you:

Because I say he would beat Bucky? Right.

i think ur a super bat fan because of the way you respond to everyones comments. you come of as a pompous asshole when in reality i'm sure your not. you make the idea of the winter soldier seem absolutely ludicrous because its not.

That's not a feat at all...that doesn't show skill. How is being a myth a feat that helps him beat Batman? Can you explain that to me because I don't get it.

your are right, it's not a feat but it is still impressive nonetheless and it proves that the winter soldier is one of the best assassins alive. if you watched cap 2 you learn that the winter soldier was responsible for world changing events, and remaining dead to the world is impressive. The fact only a handful of people other than hydra knew he existed over the 70 years he had been shaping history is extremely impressive and shows he is very good at what he does. so if the winter soldier was hired to assassinate batman, he would get it done.

Please show some Bucky feats that put him on another strength level. I'm talking feats here, both lifting and striking.

As for the feats. i couldn't find scans of comics for you so heres th description of bucky's feats from the marvel database

Bionic Arm:: It was used to replace Bucky's missing arm.

• Superhuman Strength: Has some degree of superhuman strength in his bionic arm.

• Enhanced Reaction Time: His arm's reaction time is greater than that of any Olympic athlete who has and will ever compete.

• Sensory Array: The arm houses different sensors which allow him to pass through security such as metal detectors without setting them off. It can also shield other metallic objects from detection such as firearms and knives.

• Extended Reach: He can apparently either control his bionic arm even if it has been removed from his body (possibly by cybernetic implants), or his arm can be programmed to perform certain actions on its own while removed from his body.

• Electrical Discharge: He can discharge bolts of electrical energy from his arm's palm.

• EMP: He can discharge an EMP rendering electronic devices useless. He failed to use it on a prepared Iron Man.

Expert Marksman: He is an extremely accurate marksman. Skilled in sharpshooting and knife throwing.

Skilled Shield Fighter: Barnes is becoming rapidly proficient with his former partner's shield. He is able to throw it with near perfect aim striking multiple targets in a single throw and achieving a boomerang-like return after throwing it at single person or object.

Skilled Acrobat: He is an Olympic level athlete and acrobat capable of many difficult acrobatic feats.

Peak Human Conditioning: Has shown Olympic to possible near peak human level strength, agility, endurance, dexterity, etc.

Advanced Scout: Barnes is a very gifted scout and adept at stealth and concealment.

Multi-lingual: He is fluent in English, Russian, German, Japanese, and a little French. He might be able to speak other languages.

Expert Spy: He is an expert in the field of espionage thanks largely to World War Two hand-to-hand combat luminaries William Essart Fairbairn and Colonel Rex Applegate, his former partner, Steve Rogers, the United States military, British SAS regiment, and the Russian Government. He is skilled in stealth, demolitions, survival, deducing other persons ways of thinking and other fields.

Expert Assassin: Barnes is an adept of his generation as Matthew Murdock and Elektra Natchios is of theirs, possibly the most lethal assassin in the marvel universe rivaling others such as Bullseye or Elektra. During an operation on the Russian Front with the Invaders, Barnes has from concealment thrown a 60 centimeters-long knife to penetrate the winter uniform outer garment of a German soldier with such accuracy as to pierce his heart in high arctic winds several meters. Barnes has mastered and implemented several methods to silently eliminate sentries with bladed weapons, garrotes or his bare hands, making him as lethal in his own way as his former Invader teammates, the Torches, Union Jack or Namor. He is a master at stealth and tracking and is very intelligent. He was able to render Wolverine's superhumanly acute senses such as smell completely useless by luring him to an abandoned warehouse that was completely soaked on the inside with oil and even soaking himself to make it so that Wolverine could not detect him. Barnes has made a habit out of constantly studying his surroundings and depicting what he can and cannot do in whatever situation he should fall in much like his former partner, Captain America before his death. During Barnes' visit to the Captain America exhibit that had been made to honor him after his death, he was constantly detecting potential ways to sneak in and out of the museum and the room without being detected and only taking out a small number of security to do so. The Black Widow stated to Tony Stark that he was one of the most dangerous men she knew.

Strength level

Olympic to peak human strength and some level of superhuman strength in bionic arm.

as for striking power i couldn't find a scan either but if you watch cap 2 he punches a hole in an asphalt road.

Obviously he's not advanced enough to beat everyone. I'm not a "real fighter" I just do wrestling, but skill matters quite a lot. Anyways, equating real life to comic books is an exercise in futility. Besides, you have yet to prove that Bucky is stronger than Batman.

its common sense that Bucky is stronger than batman. literally just watch cap 2. he is fighting on par with captain america, who clearly has feats above batman.

When he fought Shiva for the first time pre-crisis, they stalemated. Batman beat David Cain when they first fought as well. He beats lots of people in first encounters.

This only happened because both of the heroes you mentioned were both weaker than batman. the winter soldier is stronger than batman, so if you wanna validate your argument show me a couple superhuman he took on and one first time. I know he beat killer croc. did he beat him the first time I'm actually curious.

Lol. Not sure how you figure that, seeing as Bucky never, ever does that to Crossbones, for example. He didn't do it to Punisher either. I could name more, but they are all inferior opponents to Batman.

not sure if your got this but I'm generally using the MCU version of the winter soldier. and he could easily do that to punisher or crossbones, but it would be much of a comic book if the writers had the winter soldier punch dents in everyone all the time. but if the winter soldier wasn't holding back he could smash batman's face in. just like superman would to batman. a lot of bat fan boys (not saying you) actually think batman can take down superman. the truth is he can't. not even with kryptonite. superman could fly and use heat vision or blow him a mile away with a sneeze.

He is a symbol, but that doesn't mean his feats don't count. How moronic of you to say so.

I never said that you idiot. read whats there, not what you want me to say in order to sound stupid. i never said batmans feats don't count. they just aren't on the level of the winter soldier.

Yes, let's look at comics realistically. Batman's intelligence isn't realistic either you realize? How do you know what the writers are intending? Batman has strength feats just as good or better than Bucky's so..

i don't know what they are intending. I'm speculating just like your speculating batman can beat bucky. also batman does not have straight feats similar or better than bucky. without the metal arm batman might be stronger, but the metal arm has superhuman strength along with the other abilities described above.

@thenumber1supersoldier: You're right, I act differently on the internet than in real life. But after just glancing and seeing you copypasted a wiki article and are apparently still using movie Bucky....

Bruce. Better combat, physical, and skill showings all around the board(bar strength from Bucky's metal arm). Bucky's gear and is good but not much when compared to Bruce's. Same goes for his stealth. Bucky's only definative advantage in this fight is his arm, but 2 ton strength isn't anything Batman hasn't dealt with(Bane has 2 ton strength and skill to go along with it and still loses to Bruce).

Bucky, cause guns + arm + stealth.

@gilad_the_one: But Batman's stealth is much, much better, if you see stealth being that much of a factor.

WS

Bucky ftw

Still Batman.

Batman > Winter Soldier

Bucky is a man that can stalk Wolverine and go toe to toe with Captain America. If he were to get Bruce in his crosshairs I doubt very much he's going to miss. Bucky is an assassin of very credible feats. He can take this.

@thebourneposter: You're referring to feats from TWS movie for Cap? There isn't really even one of his superhuman feats that I could see Batman doing without PIS (jumping out of the elevator, holding up the rocks after the missile, what he did to the jet, taking six direct hits from a blood-listed Bucky to the face and surviving/staying conscious etc)

Siding with Bruce since he knows the area and makes Bucky look as dumb as rock.

Won't be easy but Bucky takes this.

Batman.

Batman. Bruce is a better fighter (Mastered every form of fighting and knows 463 ways to incapacitate a person), his armor is durable enough to absorb Bucky's of bullets and blows. Also Bruce has home field advantage and is a master tactician.

Bucky due to the distance. Bruce would win in good fight if he got close but I don't see it happening.

In your scenario, there's no way Bucky loses. He can snipe Bruce from a distance or simply overpower him in a good fight. If Batman had a day or two of prep I'd consider changing my stance. If they were film versions in a scenario like this, it would be a Winter Soldier stomp. Either way:

@69ballzdeep: How exactly does WS stomp. I say Batman would win, not in a stomp though.

He isn't a better fighter than Bruce (Who has mastered all forms of fighting and knows 463 ways to incapacitate an opponent). And he doesn't have the SSS like Steve. So he isn't physically superior to Bruce, both peak. Bruce has home field advantage and feats to show that he can doge everything WS has. Same as WS has feats to prove he can doge anything Bruce has. As for his cybernetic arm he has Bruces suit is durable enough to absorb blows from him.

@nfactor1995: Batman is a better fighter than Bucky. Both characters are peak human conditioning and Bucky doesn't have the SSS. Batman's suit is durable enough to absorb Bucky's blows. And batman has been hunted by assassins before and come out on top. Plus Bruce has got homefield advantage.

@lxlgiftedlxl said:

Batman can definitely be hurt by bullets. It's not like WS will only get lucky and tag him once. He's a master marksman not a two-bit Gotham thug. If he's shooting a Bruce, he's at least landing a third of his shots, and that's heavy damage. Being a master tactician has nothing to do with this match-up. He can use his stealth as much as he wants but Bucky stalked WOLVERINE, aka Mr. Senses everything. If he can hide from that, he can definitely hide from Bats. Also, Batman uses high grade Kevlar, the same gear WS has on, so they're both equally shielded.

If Batman gets in close and removes Bucky's decisive ranged advantage, Bucky also has a metal arm that can break through solid concrete. Batman is a better fighter than WS but it's not like he's a scrub. He's at the very least on par with Jason Todd as far as fighting skill, so although Batman may be landing more punches, WS would be doing more damage per hit.

Bucky takes this. Like I said before, in a tough fight, but he still comes out on top.

@nfactor1995: If you know much about Batman you know he can do all those things and actually has done most of them.

@thebourneposter: When you say he can do those feats are you referring to movie Batman or comic?

batman should be able to take this one

@kokemabb200: Never said that Bucky couldn't hurt Batman, I was just pointing out Batman suit is durable enought to absorb blows, explosions, and bullets.

As for Bucky Being a master marksman, Bruce has faced marksmen in the past who could be considered one of the best Nobody, Deadshot (even though he pulls his shots, he still knows where to shoot Batman to incap him), Deathstroke, Green Arrow, etc. and has overcome these odds. Batman is also one of the best shots in the world, which means he would be able to nail an explosive batarange on or near Bucky to hurt or distract Bucky so he can get closer.

Tactics and Stealth would play a big role in this fight as well because, Batman knows every square inch of Gotham and he can use that knowledge to get to cover. Also Batman is know for disappearing from human and meta human'e eye sight and leaving no trace of him self behind. In fact he has done this to Superman and others. This would also allow him to get even closer to Bucky. This combined with his, gear, stealth, and tatical mind would also get him closer to Bucky to make it a close up fight, or a very intresting game of hide and seek between the two.

As for the close up fight Bucky has got that cybernetic arm but thats it (not that it isn't a problem because it is). But Batman's suit in the past has been shown to take some serious damage, and Batman would make it a priority to avoid getting hit by his arm. Batman is the superior fighter you know the same old generic stuff all forms of fighting and such. However Bruce does know moves like the vibrating palm technique which witll incapacitate Bucky if it connects and Den mark touches(which can cause paralysis, or painful disconfort.) and if he does the modified version of these nerve stike it will instantly incapacitate Bucky. Bruce also knows the Death Touch and Lepoards Blow modified that can incapcitate as well.)

With all this at Batman's disposal I see Batman taking a slight majority, not easy of course.

@lxlgiftedlxl: I read Marvel and DC, I know Batman's feats and I know Bucky's. If you like Batman more just say so instead of trying to credit him more than he deserves. He's great, but not every fight is winnable. If you have Batman winning, that's fine its your opinion.

Personally, they are both peak human athletes but one has a decisive advantage in strength and the other in fighting styles. Just because he knows more techniques does not make him the better fighter. I have an analogy that'll try to explain my reasoning here.

If you were in a fight with someone and you had two extremely reliable, and very effective swords with you whereas your opponent had far more swords and daggers that they were allowed to interchange with it would not matter, because they can only use 1-2 at a time. Knowing a million moves doesn't make you better than someone who knows 5. That's why someone like Daredevil who only knows a handful of moves can be listed among the greatest fighters in the Marvel universe.

WS and Batman are both great characters but, I honestly don't see Bruce winning a majority. This is Batman in character, he won't lead off with any intent to kill whereas WS will be going all out from the start. I know he's fought marksmen before but Bucky isn't using trick arrows here, and he far outclasses both Green Arrow and Deadshot in h2h. Even though he lacks the super soldier serum, he's able to fight Captain America to a stalemate. Cap and Bruce have a fairly similar fighting skill level, so I wouldn't put Bucky that far below them if at all.

Bucky has also been able to dodge automatic gunfire within 5ft as well as Captain America's shield so I'm not sure Batman's limited (20) batarangs would do much. And for proof on how strong/tough he is after being forced to fight in an arena for months as well as being sleep deprived for days, he was put in a cage against a werebear (werewolf + bear) and won unarmed. He's also skilled enough to fight Sin, the Serpent Squad and Crossbones at the same time. and able to beat Ironman in a fight. He also beat Titanium man in a fight (who has superhuman speed and can lift ~75tons)

He outclasses Batman imo.

Bucky vs Ironman

Bucky vs Werebear

Bucky vs Sin + Serpent Squad + Crossbones

Sorry for the essay btw.