Batman vs US Army

@mtuske: So they obliterate the area his is at (assuming they found him in the first place). Batman has Armor and Vehicles that have taken blows from super humans far out of the destructive capabilities of the Modern U.S. Army so he survives and leaves to another place. Or he sees the planes/helicopters/Missiles/ordinance delivery device coming via is drastically more advanced Radar/sensing technology and removes himself from said area before it gets obliterated. Now the U.S. Army has killed hundreds or thousands of citizens, maybe millions depending on where he is hiding. Now you have a terrified pissed off population and your problem isn't solved in the slightest. What if he hides in another country? Now you have diplomatic issues on top of mass murdering people to get at your target. There is a reason we didn't just start dropping explosives all over Pakistan or Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. Finding and murdering one dude with inferior technolgy and none of the weapons we have at our disposle is hard enough. Fuck trying to kill a guy with technology decades in excess of ours, with skills and abilities surpassing out best trained units, weapons that are on par if not surpass ours and the ability to remotely access and take out best toys from us. The only reason batman doesn't take over the U.S. is other super heroes, CADMAS, and because he is a nice guy.

Nope. I don't think he can either. Batmobile eventually gets busted, Batman eventually runs out of equipment or goes down to a bullet or a grenade or a mob. Sheer numbers. If this wasn't the case why does Batman use tactics and tricks to sneak attack and take out baddies one at a time or in small groups? Could Batman complete an objective like sneak into a base and get a mcguffin? Yup. Can he beat up the whole Army? No.

Uh...I wouldn't trust a finance clerk to back me up tbh. Being proficient on the battlefield is more then just knowing how to shoot. Tactics are big in winning. Most MOS's qualify to the bare minimum. You shoot enough, you eventually get good enough to qualify. But keeping sharp? Not so much.

If you mean they know how to fire a rifle? Sure.

Also a tip of the cap for your service. Even if I have to point a bit and laugh for you doing it in the Navy. I did my time in the Army.

@risingbean: Just saying they know how to shoot. All it takes is one stray bullet.

@cerberus369616: Still more realistic than Batman beating an Army. Sorry Batman is very very overrated with prep.

The only reason an evil Batman, i.e.: Owlman still can't control the world in his own alternate universe is because there are also other smart people. Batman isn't the only smart guy. There are probably good tacticians in the US Army when they put their heads together (Something which Batman is bad at - Team work), Batman is gonna get out-classed sooner or later.

@mtuske: But his suit is bulletproof...

Agreed in that case. Sooner or later Batman will get hit by something.

Batman has a chin. And even beyond that, getting hit with high enough caliber or certain types of rounds will still be a bad day for Bruce.

@risingbean: Not all his suits have a chin plus he is smart enought not to confront 1 million soldiers all at once. Hacking would be his best weapon.

Dark Knight Returns is canon, it's just set in a different universe.

In other words, not canon.

@tarandriel: What makes you think that just because he did it in a different universe it means that he can't do it in the normal DC Universe. Batman Stomps.

@xxbatmanxisxsupremexx:

Because DKR's Supes is absolutely nothing like standard Supes.

Weak, dumb lapdog of a corrupt, oppresive government with none of the morals and convictions he always had.

That person was just some flying guy who raided real Clark's wardrobe one day.

@tarandriel: I don't care Batman still win him with a kryptonite

I'm sorry I didn't know we were arguing realism here. My bad I assumed we were debating about a Comic Book character (Batman) using Comic Book character feats on Comic Vine. Never mind, your right. Yes the US Army can take down a man in Bat-suit. Because in the real world there is No such thing as Boom Tubes, or JLA teleporters, Superhumans that are invulnerable to bullets and other modern weaponry, high functioning Robots,nano-tech, magic or anything else in the DC universe that the Modern Military has literally no answer for. Because this is Realism Vine, home of Reality Books, not something silly and fantastic like Comic Books. Oh wait, no that's not what this is at all, I'm sorry, your on the wrong forum. Go home and be a family man.

Yea Batman is overrated for prep, but the same reason "Batman wins with Prep" isn't a valid reason "Batman with prep is overrated" isn't a valid argument. I've presented nothing but valid reasons.Holding the Country Hostage with Nukes (A tactic he has employed on a significantly greater scale) by hacking the U.S. own systems (something he has again done on a huge scale), being able to remain hidden quite easily from the U.S. most advanced technology so that he doesn't get taken out (again, shown with his stealth suit that works on the likes of Superman), morals and rules showing how the U.S. can't just blow up shit until they get him as you seem to think is reasonable when they haven't done something like that in real life (as evidenced with the sheer amount of time it took to find someone like Bin Laden someone with not even a fraction of Bruce's Resources) beyond predator drone strikes (which require actually knowing where your target is, which they probably won't).

If Batman walks out onto an open field in nothing but his Batsuit and on the other side of this field is the entire military might of the U.S., then yes he will lose. In that scenario he loses badly. But I'd like to think we both know batman isn't so dumb to call out the U.S. Army in a fist fight show down using his Batarangs and lolsoawesome acrobatics.

You literally haven't presented one reason for them to take him out other than "Nuh, uh, not realistic, they got so many guys." and "Batman is overrated with Prep, people are wankers." If that is your argument...good on you, but you should really avoid the battle Forums cause it really isn't a good look on here.

@xxbatmanxisxsupremexx:

Yeah, let's ignore the fact he failed every time in canon, with or without kryptonite.

Batman runs around in a verse where a man can move a planet, hyperdrive is a think and he owns a company with tech that he built a floating tower in space with teleportation capabilities.

Anyone actually thinks modern day Tech of any army can stand a chance against this man is really delusional.

@cerberus369616: They have more intelligent people than Batman that would track him down with drones and other surveillance tools. They will find his identity and he will be dealt with fairly easily. Too many intelligent people to not get him. He's not perfect although you people think he's God he's just one man who's vastly outnumbered and outgunned.

don't people know his identity, they kept quiet for their own benefit. Like A.W. from the animated series. ( i know not cannon) if he ever went up against America he would be outed, his location is known, and so on

@darthmanhunter: No actually he loses on most of his threads, people (both bat fanboys and bat haters) cannot see logic. In some battles batman fanboys will say he could beat Galactus with prep, but no that's not possible, in some battles people only complain that he is god with prep when he could easily win because of prep. Someone has already said it. With a year, he could easily build a nano tech indestructible suit with alien tech and hack the military's systems and that is me thinking of something in 15 seconds. This is Batman with a year of preparation and full Wayne Enterprises resources.

@mtuske: Who? Who is more intelligent than Batman that the U.S. has access to? Who in real life has invented a full functioning A.I.? Or reverse engineered FTL Travel? Invented Stealth Suits that can scan and block out ALL spectrums currently being observed? Reverse Engineered Nano tech?Absolutely no one. The scale of technology that batman is working on is so far beyond ours that at best it is theoretical far future stuff. Practically it is Science Fiction that we may never obtain.

Finding out who Batman is doesn't let them catch him. We knew who Bin Laden was and it didn't let us catch him any faster. I don't contest that he is Perfect. But the people who are better than Batman are from a universe where anyone contending with Batman, Better or Worse is on average better than almost any single person in the U.S. military. I'm not trying to dump on our armed forces, there are A LOT of people in them that would destroy someone like me. But we are comparing REAL people to a FICTIONAL person who is by his nature designed to be one of the pinnacles of Humanity and those REAL people have access to REAL tech compared to FICTIONAL tech that is so advanced we don't even have working theories for how the hell we could pull it off. What stops batman from using something like Boom Tube or the JLA teleporter from teleporting each and every top brass from there homes, offices, or where ever he wants and literally cutting the head off from the body that is the armed forces? Nothing. You know why? because we don't have teleporters or boom tubes, let alone anti-teleporting technology or anti-boom tube technology. We just don't have answers for things that don't exist as far as we can tell. We don't have Nth metal, Promethium, Robots with parts that can simulate the strength,speed and power of beings like Super man (even if at only a fraction). We Don't have nano-tech, artificial gravity, Artificial Intelligence or anything that Batman just has. If we did, yea there are over a million of the Armed forces and 1 of him. but we don't.

B-Man.

@cerberus369616: lol. You write all that crap and I don't read it.

Batman couldnt even beat mexicos army.

lol okay then, good talk buddy. You just invalidated whatever arguments you were trying to make. I'll see you around, have a good one.

@captainbatman:

If he could do all that, why hasn't he done all that already?

Why isn't he running around in an indestructible alien tech nano suit?

He has definitely had far more than a year in comic books.

@tarandriel: Well he obviously can make one. He's just too busy fighting. With the alien nanosuit he could probably solo everyone in the world.

@tarandriel:

@tarandriel:

Well for a few reasons.

1. Something that ridiculous is outside of Batman's Morals. He generally limits what technology he is using because he doesn't believe one man should have too much power, including himself. It's one of the reason's he fight alternate timeline and alternate dimension "Batmen"/"Justice Leagues" who have used their power for such total control and nefarious deeds.

2.It isn't his style. He comes back from the "dead" and just has the insider suit, sothing that doesn't inhibit him from using his normal skills and is powerful enough to contend with the entire outsiders team despite is limited battery and just doesn't ever use it. He has a whole host of other gear, suits and tech that he has either pilfered, reverse engineered or created that he doesn't use because he believes he doesn't need it or wants to do it the old fashioned way. Like how Tony Stark doesn't use his more powerful suits all the damn time despite having thinks like the Thorbuster or Hulk Buster or a satellite Cannon.

3. WiS, PiS and CiS. As a collective if they were willing to Batman, Superman, Black Panter, Reed Richards and all the other Super Genius' of the Comic book world with their absolutely ridiculous tech could have ushered in a a Golden Age 100 times over if they just shared their tech, knowledge and skills with the world at large but they don't because that would be a really boring fucking comic. They use all kinds of excuses like "people not being ready", or "With great power comes great resposibility" or "not having the time while he is busy fighting crime" and all kinds of nonsense but Batman could have decimated Crime in Gotham years ago if he trained the Police proper or shared his tech with them or any number of long term solutions. but he doesn't. it's silly but it part of the plot.

But in a situation like this, Batman isn't dumb and it isn't a random encounter. He is gonna prepare in the proper fashion for a battle like this. He has made the tech in the past (Brother 1 AI hacked almost every Database in the world), he has used the tactic before with no hesitation (Held Apokolips hostage against Darkseid, much larger population and scale) and has the means to avoid being taken out (Hiding in another country and he created a suit capable of hiding from every spectrum being scanned). He goes into hiding, hacks the American or any other country he so chooses long range armaments including nukes and then demands a surrender after demonstrating he has the nukes (like he did via Hellspores against Darkseid). Very simple, very effective, not much the U.S. can do about it.

Maybe if Adam West Batman invented Anti-US Army spray and gave it to the rest of the world, America wouldn't go ruining other countries......

@evilduckling:

That is a no limits falacy.

There is absolutely nothing indicating batman can create a suit powerful enough for that. However, show me canon scans where he creates a suit like that, and I will accept your point of view.

So, in other words, the only thing preventing batman from becoming the single most powerful being in the world, or even the galaxy, is his own inherent laziness?

If so, then he would also be too lazy to do all the insane stuff needed to take on an army this big and win.

@laflux: Since when has America ruined a country? Don't say Japan because they were killing innocent people...

Vietnam.

The real army wins. The comic military flops. Batman has never fought any large fighting force half-way as competent as the actual army. I don't even think S.H.I.E.L.D is that competent (Even though S.H.I.E.L.D is marvel, they're an example). And without prep he will lose every....single...time.

In a sense yes, if that is how you see it. The same could be said for every hero in Comics with Super Tech though including Reed, Superman, Black Panther(less so him since he has infact done a lot for his own country Wakanda, one of the reasons he is thought to be a cooler Batman), Steel, Mr. Terrific, Tony Stark, ect. ect. the list goes on ad nausea . Could it be considered bad writing, sure but it's how comics are. There are some Earths/Dimensions where heroes do use there technology in what most people would consider the right way. But it's also the fact that there are other people with equal or superior tech and intelligence to stop Batman from doing Something like that even though some dimension have Batman actually doing just that. If Batman did try to take over the world (assuming he wanted to) he would be stomped by the JLA, pretty much true across the board for any single super powered or or super intelligent person in the Comic universe. Same reason Lex Luthor hasn't conquered the world or Dr. Doom hasn't permanently conquered it. That isn't true here, this is the U.S. Military vs Batman with a year of Prep.

And the problem with that argument is Batman has in fact done the things I listed as a winning strategy. batman HAS invented a Satellite to hack the majority of Earth's tech (Brother I) , a more advanced earth at that and without getting caught by the Government or anyone who wanted to stop him. Batman HAS threatened a populace and it's leader with imminent destruction to force a surrender on his terms (Hellspores on Apokolips) and he HAS invented a Suit Capable of hiding from Superman (The guy who has every vision you can think of and the ability to hear a pin drop from out space, makes no sense but comics). He has all the tools and has exhibited the strategy required to pull this off and this isn't me arguing a composite Batman like Wen-Jun_Chew. This is mainstream Batman.

This knee-jerk reaction to "Batwankers" has got to stop. Is Batman Wanked hard? Yes, it's to be expected he has one of the largest fan bases for comics on the planet. Is it a problem on the Battle Forums? Yes, it makes it terribly harder to get to a logical and reasonable answer while using him in any debate. But you know what is also a problem? Batman haters feeling justified in hating him and low-balling him because "OMFG BATMAN HAS SOME UNREASONABLE FANS". They make it jsut as hard to get a reasonable debate going. Reality is Batman isn't the best prepper. Doom, Thanos, Reed and plenty of others are better, blow him out of the water even. But that doesn't make him bad and it doesn't take away that he has pulled off some borderline impossible things for a "regular" (i use that term very loosely) guy. There are comic book characters that have taken over most of if not all of the known universe with some luck and a few days of prep, and no one would bat an eye if they got a prep victory over a country or or more with a year of prep and no opposition from outside forces. But mention Batman and people go insane on both sides of the argument all because some Batman fans suck. Some, not all of us, some.

But then who would save the U.K. during the next world war?

@cerberus369616:

Now, these things are something I can agree with you.

But, you also have to agree the general populace in the comic books is laughably incompetent. In this thread, we are pitting Batman against real-life army from a real-life world. Here, his identity would be found out. Here, he would not have the benefit of his ridiculous ( even by comic book standards ) reality-warping plot armor.

So, could he cause amazing amount of destruction? Definitely. If we use pure destruction, body count and resources spent as some sort of scoring points, he could indeed "win". But, batman is a man. He is not omnipotent, he has limits, he has failed many times, he has been beaten many times, with or without prep, by much lesser opponents.

In this scenario, he can win only if we stop the fight some short time after he deals the initial blow, which will indeed be deadly. But after that begins a war of attrition which he cannot win. At some point, he will lose. Maybe a week, maybe a month, maybe a year later. Or a decade. It doesn't matter. Once things of that magnitude get set in motion, he cannot arbitrarily assign a moment in time where he "wins" and goes home with a trophy.

If only Wenjun Chew was here

This

If only the rules were a little more vague...

Actually USA has about 1,430,000 in active, and slightly over 850,000 in reserve.
EDIT: Oh, it's just an army, not including navy, air forces, marines, and coast guard.

this

Batman dies in real life; on Comic Vine he beats everyone with Prep.

Ahh the use of Ballistic Subs then nuke batman.

Its impossible to hack since they are not connected to the network only a special coms directly from the presidential office not even pentagon have access to ballistic subs

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/united-states-military-vs-batman-1468904/

This should be locked.

The USA vs Batman is the same thing

The U.S Army and the government is prepared for pretty much anything batman could throw at them. If batman only has his resources and no one else to help him. There isn't much he can do.

@tarandriel: Why would comic writers do that? If they did that, then there would be no conflict. It would be far too easy for Batman to defeat his enemies, Bats enemies would not really be used anymore. Imagine no Joker, Two-face, penguin etc. And the OP never said he could never get help from others, so superman or Flash could build it

Bruce Wayne is arrested for conspiracy to commit treason during his year of prep.

Batman

@captainbatman:

What do comic book writers have to do with forum battles? Comic books are governed by comic book logic, forum battles aren't.

Here, we aren't discussing what would happen in the comic book, but rather in a neutral world not governed by plot conveniences. Simple as that.

Batman

@rpottage: You can't fight characters during their prep time its against the rules