Batman VS Solid Snake

seems like a matter of opinion, I can easily argue otherwise on both points...but it's been done by Frozen already...

There is a difference between fighting a class 100 and someone like Vamp. If you want I can post multiple different scans of batman fighting wonder woman and it doesn't make it legit despite there actually being a lot of instance of batman doing it. If you honestly think Gray Fox used his class 100 strength then you must also believe snake is a 100 toner considering he blocked a kick from Gray Fox. His actions clearly show he wasn't using his strength.

Also you want me to believe Gray Fox was going all out against solid snake? Prove to me snake can lift 100 tons.

Your saying a lot of stuff but your not actually giving any evidence. And your also using non canon evidence. Batman never fought the predator in canon. He never fought the mutant leader. He has only ever lost to shiva once and that was when she got the drop on him, they had 2 other fights one of which batman won and the other was a stalemate. He never got his butt kicked by Jason Todd and has actually stomped him before. He lost once to bane when he was exhausted and another time when bane was on a new form of venom. He has beaten bane twice and arguably 3 times. Grodd is so durable that flash cannot hurt him (the same flash that can use IMP's) and not only that but if you really want to go there batman has one shotted Grodd in the past....Mutant leader has appeared once in DC main stream canon and he got one shotted by Damian Wayne. He has only fought Bruce in a non canon story and Bruce was old and out of shape. Clay face would beat snake since snake has no way of hurting him...Prometheus actually cheated in his first fight with batman and Bruce beat him in there second. Bronze Tiger beat Bruce once in the pre crisis era and then they stalemated. That was decades ago and batman has gone through a lot of training since then. I don't see how losing to deathstroke is a low showing or superman and wonder woman.

As for The reaper, Deacon Blackfire and Sgt Braden give me an issue reference and I will look into it because 90% of what you have stated so far is either non canon or out of context.

And batman has an IQ of 192 IIRC so....

@jashro44: Flash never IMP'd Grodd(or gave those kind of punches)or Grodd would cease to exist and supreme animal cruelty.But other than that,keep it up :)

My major point was flash can punch much harder then anyone in the metal gear verse.

@jashro44: very true.My mistake on not seeing your point

No problem.

I brought up wonder woman to prove a point with the Gray Fox fight. If you actually read what I said you would tell I don't believe batman should be fighting wonder woman then I believe snake should be fighting fray fox. Batman has fought her multiple times. We knows its PIS because the consistent enemies he fights are not in wonder woman's league. Same applies to fray fox and snake.

Vamp also lost to human Raiden in metal gear solid 2 IIRC. He can clearly be taken down by a skilled fighter, and fray fox would probably destroy vamp. He was beating Raiden because he was faster and more skilled not because he can physically match Raiden.

Your logic is basically anything batman does that is humanly impossible is PIS and yet everything snake does that is humanly impossible is legit. There seriously is nothing in your post which is worth addressing.

This is not using an enemies strength against them:

That is impossible unless snake has strength comparable to gray fox.

@liquidnazo said:

@nick_hero22: THAT IS STUPID, How can something that doesn't cripple you make you cripple. That's just you wanting someone to lose, I showed you the fight without him having the breakdown and he still was destroyed, then when he had the breakdown he became a lot more dangerous. You're saying that something that made him stronger, and faster, made him less effiecient..

Smack your self. For that logic...Matter of fact, punch yourself for trolling..and then drown yourself for being annoying. because you and I know that what you've just said, is COMPLETE and UTTER

Especially seeing as you have no idea who Grey Fox is and you're going off of being biased. I hate it when people like you do crap like that in battle forums. It ruins the debate, the debate changes from debating, to a biased spite Thread similar to the goku vs superman fans.

I highly dought he watch what happened at 7:00

I didn't say that, so nice strawman argument you have constructed here. Here is what I said, "And, just because the nanites were used to help in alieving his pain doesn't mean that all of his symptoms went away or that they didn't fatigue him.", so next time please address what I said instead of a dumb-down version of it. You stated that the nanites were used to help in alieving some of the painful spasms he was experiencing, and then I said that the nanites most likely didn't suppress all of the symptoms of the spasms since that is what caused him to retreat. Spasming in a fight or experiencing the symptoms of a spasm would cause someone to be less efficient. And, flagged!

Yes, because Deathstroke has better on-panel feats such as fighting the Justice League of America and the Teen Titans which shows that he has a higher level of tactical planning, combat skills/intelligence, physical stats (except strength), and battlefield awareness. The quote I posted said that he was experiencing painful spasms, and no one is making stuff up.

@jashro44: WTF DUDE HE DID IT IN THE FREAKING SCAN YOU JUST SHOWED. He caught his leg and through him to the side in a fluid motion, you don't have to be stronger then that, just being you can pick up 7 tons doesn't mean you weigh 7 TONS.

If he can't do that, then bruce lee couldn't do that to half the guy he were bigger then him. Wait, Bruce Lee 1 inch punched someone and made them fly into a chair 7 feet awap, who was twice his size and weight. Chuck Norris has performed similar feats,

This little kid was a prime example. Even though there playing he did this.

Plus look at this.. This guy whoops someone's ass who's twice his size, doesn't really involve using strength against them. But he still did it.

What about this..

I'm pretty sure that truck is a lot heavier then he is, and he has it in an angle shaking it.

I mean seriously dude I can go all day on this. Yet Snake is a lot stronger then any of these guys, so the feats that I've explained about Snake is not impossible.

If a guy can pull a truck with his balls...Snake can throw greyfox like a ragdoll.

@liquidnazo: He actually didn't grab fray foxes legs. We see he just blocks the kick in the video as well.

2:40.

@nick_hero22: One I apologies for saying you're full of shit, even though I consider you a whiny whoose. It's sad to say it but the nanites eliminates all pain in metal gear, there is no left over pain. None at all, as a matter of fact they explained it in metal gear. The one's snake has would cause those problems, because he had an older version of nanites, that he didn't want to change. He liked being more natural then anything, but the kind Greyfox had, were instant pain relievers. He hardly felt any pain because most of his body was mechanical.

He didn't leave from pain as I said earlier, he left because he was losing himself and he was going to go on a rampage. I promise you are the slowest person on this forum. This other guy i'm debating, at least he comes back with feats, not always reasonable. He debates with a lot of evidence and scans, and not only that but he shows a form of intelligence and he's not completely biased, not only that he knows a little more about what he's talking about. He's going from a bit of experience and intelligence, a little biased but he has a few good points.

You on the other hand are blowing wind out of your ass. like literally. You have no idea what you're talking about. If you're going to debate and try to claim im using a strawman argument, which you really have no idea what you mean when you say that. Then maybe, just maybe you should probably debate someonelse instead of trying to use a double reverse psychology. Which is you being the strawman. I never claimed I won this debate...I know I won this debate. Against YOU in perticular at least, but the other guy I'm really eager in what he has to say.

Lastly let me give you the definition of a strawman argument.

a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of the topic of argument. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having denied a proposition by replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then deny it ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.

In what way have I done that?

@jashro44: I was going off the scan you showed me sir, they showed 2 different events happen. However you're showing the fight where Greyfox went berserk not this fight.

0:40 he uses his body weight against him, and tosses him like a ragdoll. Not only that in this entire fight, snake didn't chase the enemy he got into a defensive stance, which is what you are supposed to do when someone is faster then you, and he countered all his attacks by dodging and hitting him in critical area's like parts of the body that will make you flinch, the back of the knee pressure spot, the solar plexis, and a power blow to the spine. Then pop his arm and use his body weight against him to swing him like a ragdoll.

1) If nanites eliminated all pain, why did Grey Fox have to retreat in the end because of the spasms he was experiencing? Do you have any information concerning these nanites? It was also mention that his nerve connections were imperfect which could correlate to a poor combat showing. And, do you honest think I could give a damn what you think of me? And, I would watch how I talk with other users for you end up getting banned.

2) The quote I posted said that a combination of painful spasms and electrical discharges from his body is what caused him to retreat. And, flagged again for insults.

3) This is the strawman, "THAT IS STUPID, How can something that doesn't cripple you make you cripple.". I said nothing about Grey Fox being crippled, but what I did state was that the nanites probably didn't alieve all of Grey Fox's symptoms which could have caused him to perform poorly and then retreat from the fight. Who said anything about winning this debate? That is irrelevant to what's now being discussed.

4) Your definition should clearly convey to you that this statement was in fact a strawman, "THAT IS STUPID, How can something that doesn't cripple you make you cripple.".

@nick_hero22: greyfox had to retreat because he got his asswhooped.

That is the end of the story, I'm tired of repeating the same crap to you.

the electricity comes from his active camo, you saying it hinders his ability to fight..IF IT'S HINDERING HIM, THAT WOULD MEAN IT'S CRIPPLING HIM. Dude know the meaning of the words you use before you use them. Me saying that is in no way, a straw man argument.

But, I posted a quote that says other-wise.

Honestly lots of characters tank hits from 100 tonners, it's really not that big of a deal. Superboy used Deathstroke's body to create a massive crater in the ground, Ultimate Captain America got wailed on by Abomination, and Batman even survived getting tossed around by Clayface after the guy traded blows with Supergirl. Unlike these characters though, Gray Fox is only barely class 100, so considering how Snake's durability is consistent between 100 tonners and peak humans (see his fight with Liquid Ocelot) I see no reason why we shouldn't believe he can survive at least a couple hits from the Cyborg Ninja.

Snake won the fight by dodging the majority of Frank's blows anyway, during the boss fight the Ninja can drain almost all of the player's health with one hit. I might concede on the lightning timing feats being pretty iffy, but this matter is one that I am 100% clear on; the game gives NO indication that Gray Fox held back. He doesn't say that he wants an honorable duel with Snake, he states that he wants a fight to the death by any means necessary.

You can't deny beating a Cyborg Ninja is pretty freakin good on Snake, it's one feat that I don't think Batman can match.

Deathstroke is a lot smarter than Gray Fox, that's the only reason he can fight the JLA and Teen Titans and then still lose. Gray Fox did have painful spasms at two points in the game; right after his first appearance, and right after his fight with Snake. Watch the clip I posted right above and tell me if it looks like he's suffering incredible pain.

I saw nothing in the video that contradicted the quote, and I even acknowledge that the information I posted could be potentially faulty. As seen in the video Nickzambuto posted Grey Fox suit was seeping electricity in his fight with Solid Snake.

What has Grey Fox done in comparison because killing a group of fodder soldiers isn't exactly impressive. I don't see how that video is suppose to refute the possibility of Grey Fox's still having some of the common symptoms of a spasm which include muscle tightness, joint stiffness, involuntary jerky movements, exaggeration of reflexes, muscle contraction that limits your range of motion or prevents your joints from extending all the way, and etc. And, it was also stated that Grey Fox's nerve connections were imperfect as well. And, at 6:45 Grey Fox suit is discharging electricity

@liquidnazo: Hello. I would suggest you take a break from this thread. Its entirely possible you are calm and feel you are being civil, but a lot of things you have said in this thread are inappropriate or far too hostile. You can not ask posters have a disorder if something is not mentally clicking with them. Thats very insulting. Don't tell posters to smack themselves your drown themselves or anything similar to that in nature. Or post pictures telling posters they are full of BS. CV also has a non swearing policy.

Basically I request that from now on, you can debate hard and disagree with people, just do not talk about them in any personal context, especially not an aggressive one. I have to give you a warning, but you stretched and broke multiple rules. I get the sense you just like debating and thats fine, but you have to be a bit more civil and cordial is all. Thanks. Oh and send me a PM if you have any questions or concerns.

@liquidnazo said:

@nick_hero22: Greyfox went head to head with a metal gear..using nothing but a sword, and a handheld canon.

Not just any metal gear, but metal gear rex. A machine that is designed to wipe entire armies off the face of the planet, a metal gear that is designed to destroy other metal gear. That's what greyfox did that Deathstroke didn't do, Deathstroke is strong, but I don't think he can survive being stepped on by metal gear multiple times. Nor can he...you know what dude why are you even talking..?

You're not even a factor in this argument. You KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS ENTIRE SERIES, at least the other guy knows about batman and snake. You have no knowledge of what neither one can do. Again stop blowing wind out your ass, that's like me trying to debate about Amazo. I don't know shit about him, I can't say I can pick up a little information from here. I remember I tried doing the same thing you're doing right now, thought I had way more evidence backing me up then you before I knew anything about startwars. I debated this guy on Darth Revan vs Death Sidious. This guy completely slaughtered my argument, I mean I made sense, I made a hell of a lot of sense. He even said, I made sense and gave a reasonable argument but at the end of the day, I didn't know what the f*** I was talking about. Neither do you. Like I asked you before, debate with someonelse because you're just.

You really need to stop that son, it's unhealthy.

1) I don't see how a Metal Gear is comparable to the Justice League of America or the Teen Titans? Because the roster of both teams consist of metahuman members like Cyborg, Starfire, Green Lantern,Wonder Girl, Beast Boy, Flash, Kid Flash, and etc. What would make a Metal Gear more formidable outside of killing a large number of fodders which most all of the characters I listed could easily replicate or have replicated.

2) I never stated that Deathstroke was stronger than Grey Fox, so the reference to Grey Fox lifting the foot of a Metal Gear is moot because I have already conceded that Grey Fox is stronger in a previous post. But, I will make the claim that Deathstroke is faster and more skilled when it comes to combat and tactics.

3) Again, no substance and a paragraph full of insults, and I'm being unreasonable here?

@liquidnazo: I am deleting your posts that contain insults, swearing, personal commentary. Again, I advise you to not post in this thread, but if you wish to? You must remain civil and address posters arguments only, not their person. Posters must talk about characters, comics, but not each other. You have one warning already, but thats not so bad, can just post somewhere else and won't really matter. If you want to discuss anything in private message, feel free to do so with myself or any other moderator of your choosing.

@nick_hero22: It was a paragraph full of insults, like I said. I would love it if you debate with someonelse. I am politely asking you to stop debating with me. Because so far, you have been repeating the same thing over, and over, and over...and over......and over.....and over again. Please refrain from repeating the same thing over and over again.

We've all given examples of why greyfox went mad, we've shown evidence of how greyfox fight changed for the better when he went mad. We even shown how

you know what..I don't even care anymore. This is not a debate, this is rambling and arguing, using evidence against the same argument that has been proven wrong time, and time again. Is not a debate. Deathstroke never blitzed an entire room in a matter of seconds.

I know about deathstroke vs Teen Titans aka Slade true Identity death stroke, people sometimes confused him with batman. But as far as speed feats..

Greyfox..is a legend on the battle field. He uses perfect strategy when it comes to battle. He was known for being a strategic ninja before even becoming a cyborg. This is him before enhancements. He was known as the perfect soilder

Then you have greyfox do this while in raged a feat, Deathstroke never performed.

People saying batman could take big boss, but Big Boss took down greyfox..with ease. A man who slaughters the best of the best of government soilders. The man who's known as the perfect soldier.

1:21 he blitz an entire room. When Deathstroke has never done that, Deathstroke usually catch people by surprise. Greyfox on the other hand, never loses you. He always finds you, so that running and hiding tactic for deathstroke wont work.

1. Batman

2. Snake

3. Snake

bump

Batman all rounds.

Batsssssss

Batman should win all three rounds, tbh.

1. Batman

2. IDK

3. Snake

1. Batman

2. Batman

3. IDK?

Grrr.

Batman, clean sweep.

Oh please, you ran away from our Batman vs Big Boss debate, and Snake beat Big Boss twice.

Eh, I couldn't find the effort. I'd already poured my blood, sweat and various other bodily fluids into my Cap vs Batman debate with Wolverine08 and I just couldn't do it again.

Do you know who Batman is?

This, basically, Solid Snake beat Big Boss in MG1 and MG2 (and 3rd time because of FOXDIE in MGS4, heh heh), and Big Boss is the greatest soldier of the 20th century, and he was the guy who made Close Quarters Combat with The Boss, and still Solid was able to take him down. So why wouldn't he be able to take down Batman?

- TAS

Did you play Metal Gear or watch any playthroughs? Not insulting you or your opinion, I respect it, but Solid Snake took down Big Boss, the greatest soldier of the twentieth century, twice.

- TAS

Ra's Al Ghul invented fencing and Bruce still stomped him. Throwing around accolades isn't that impressive. Bruce fought the living embodiment of martial arts as a concept.

Fencing isn't substance, that's like saying someone can take down another guy because he made cheese. With CQC, something which Big Boss invented, you can witness being able to take down many, many men seamlessly, I wonder what sort of feats there are with fencing.

- TAS

When Snake has feats like mastered 127 martial arts, taking down metahumans with pressure points and mastering techniques known by like, 4 people on the planet (in a world brimming with skilled martial artists) you could claim he's more skilled than Bruce. He's physically superior, sure, but not more skilled.

I've read through a few CaV's. But nothing suggests that Big Boss or Solid Snake are as skilled as Batman is in hand-to-hand. They'll make it hard due to the physical edge, but I doubt it'd change the result by a large factor. Batman regularly takes on meta-humans.