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#51 Posted by NeonGameWave (7205 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

#52 Edited by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

immortal, there's a far cry between a common thug and Snake Eyes. He wouldn't win based solely on his willingness to kill; he would win on his fighting ability, speed, and training, as well as his tactics. Bruce Wayne was a whiny spoiled rich kid crying about his parents before he was trained by the supposed "ninjas" in the "League" (which isn't even a traditional "ninja clan", but a criminal group that more resembles Chinese or Tibetan fighting styles than anything else - there was a great article on that in IKF a few years back), Snake was killing VC with his spec forces LRRP in the nastiest bush in Nam, before he joined Stormshadow in the established ninja clan. Also, he was trained by two hardened martial arts/ninjitsu masters...not some chump mercenary. As to being able to use his terrain and surroundings, as well as ninja-inspired gadgets? like Bane said, "Oh you think the darkness is your ally?" Also, Snake and Stormshadow were the original ninjas before Frank Miller rewrote every character as a ninja in the mid 80s (please see Wolverine, Batman, and Daredevil). Being fighting machines is what they were, the ninja background was added for flavor to characters who already had a niche (gadgets, healung and claws, radarsight...) Please find me a batman origin story where he's a ninja bdass before the mid eighties. In short, these popular characters ripped off a piece ofthe old Lary Hama Marvel original ninjas. I love batman, but I'm sorry, he would get trounced by real martial artists (with uzis).

Honestly, have you actually read anything in comics? You're only citing movie versions, which severely weakened him.

First off, how is Bruce Wayne a whiny spoiled rich kid? His parents were shot in front of him when he was eight years old. What would you do if your parents were killed in front of you? Shrug, and go on like nothing has happened? Explain how this somehow translates into "whiny."

Also, Batman was not just trained by the Ra's al Ghul and the "League of Shadows (Assassins)." Batman's not just a ninja, he's far more. He's a master martial artist, master tactician, and an intellectual genius. He traveled the world learning from various martial arts from various masters. He mastered 127 forms of martial arts, and has a vast knowledge of pressure point/nerve strikes.

And if you think that Batman can't match Snake-Eyes physically, well he's lifted a thousand pounds, tossed a 600 pound Man-Bat through the air without too much difficulty, easily broken solid steel objects, and punched/kicked through concrete structures. He's fast enough to dodge bullets, lightning, and lasers.

Factor in his arsenal. His Batsuit can easily block bullets and explosions. He has knockout gas pellets, special batarangs including explosive, flash freeze, magnetizing, smoke bombs, stun grenades, tasers, a laser (which cut through Amazo, who had absorbed the powers of the Justice League), and much more.

And when he has PREP? He's built robotic constructs of the Justice League, the Insider Suit, made plans that took out the Justice League, disabled various superhuman powers, and giant high tech robots, off the top of my head.

The majority of your post is "Batman iz fake ninja Snake-Eyes iz real ninja, so Snake-Eyes wins!" which is completely wrong. Actually study more on your characters before making a post like this, please.

And for God's sake, we have a reply button. Use it so I know you're talking with me.

#53 Posted by kenobi26 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

My point was that while Bruce was walking around brooding in his Armani sweaters, Snake was in Southeast Asia being a hard ass Special Forces Commando. So, you take a guy with that kind of training and send him to be trained by a serious ninja clan (not the budget ninja crooks led by a punk), and then put him back into ANOTHER special forces elite unit that doesn't spend it's days beating up nickel-a-dozen crooks, and you've got a serious contender there.

The problem is that it doesn't sound like many people here have done their reading on Snake Eyes, and are quick to jump on the Dark Knight bandwagon. I don't blame them - he's obviously an iconic, long-standing figure (and hell, I like the guy too), but don't count Snake Eyes out.

My point about Snake and SS being the "original" comic book world ninjas, was just kind of an "aside". As a kid, I really was intrigued when they were first introduced. There really weren't any other ninja characters in the mainstream yet, and it was cool to learn about them and the mystique. Once everyone and their brother had "ninja" training, it kind of ruined it. Now everyone is a ninja - even the mailman. My point was that batman was cool because of his gadgets, his cool car, using his brain to beat the enemy, and his vigilante m.o. That's what made him special, just like Snake Eyes was unique because of his "ninja-ness". But hey, everyone just got promoted to ninja and had that thrown on their resume. It's annoying. They did it right with those characters and explored the whole ninja aspect; the mysticism, the history, the training - and everyone copied it.

Batman is a brawler. Period. He has a myriad of training from many areas, and combines them into his own "style" (if you'd call it that). He moves in quick, takes a group of punks out with some quick strikes to important spots, then returns to the shadows - that's totally his move. He's not interested in flashy kicks or fluid movements - he's about getting the job done and immobilizing guys quick. Anyone disagree? We've all read the books, we've all seen the movies - that's just who batman is. What he's not is a mysterious assassin, with a whole range of serious ninja killing techniques and weapons in his repertoire. Sure, he's borrowed and adapted the assassin's weapons and tricks - improving on many of them to suit his needs - but again, he has a "style" to adhere to. He uses subterfuge, the darkness, sleight of hand, cunning...all of that to defeat his enemy and strike fear into their hearts.

Snake Eyes is a different machine, and going up against him head to head...is just a bad idea for the caped crusader. He's more on par with say...Wolverine (though less hack and slash or brutal) - he's a graceful killer, with a hundred ways to paralyze or kill an opponent. Whoever was comparing batman's sword skills to Snake Eyes'...was just not even close in their assessment, and as far as Batman's arsenal of smoke bombs, batarangs, and other devices meant to confuse or stun a foe - Snake Eyes would be well-acclimated to them all. There would be no swinging down out of the darkness to surprise him or any snare that he wouldn't be well-aware of. Snake Eyes also isn't a "brawler" like Batman - he leans more towards the mystic and old secret techniques of the forgotten masters - like the death palm that shatters internal organs (watch GIJOE RESOLUTE on the "seven steps to the sun" moves he destroys SS with), or using his Zen teachings to change his alpha brain waves to blow up a machine Dr. Mindbender has him strapped to (GI JOE annual #3), and many other "metaphysical/superhuman" techniques that would put him a step ahead.

How is batman going to fight him? Run him over with his car? In hand to hand, he's outmatched, his gadgets will do jack and crap, and at long range, Snake will dust him with his uzis (or just the classic grenade toss and frag the hell out of him - my favorite). Given time, Bruce might be able to study his enemy and figure out a way to defeat him, but in an initial confrontation, he would be cooked - and Snake wouldn't let him back up for a rematch. Sorry.

#55 Edited by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

My point was that while Bruce was walking around brooding in his Armani sweaters, Snake was in Southeast Asia being a hard ass Special Forces Commando. So, you take a guy with that kind of training and send him to be trained by a serious ninja clan (not the budget ninja crooks led by a punk), and then put him back into ANOTHER special forces elite unit that doesn't spend it's days beating up nickel-a-dozen crooks, and you've got a serious contender there.

The problem is that it doesn't sound like many people here have done their reading on Snake Eyes, and are quick to jump on the Dark Knight bandwagon. I don't blame them - he's obviously an iconic, long-standing figure (and hell, I like the guy too), but don't count Snake Eyes out.

My point about Snake and SS being the "original" comic book world ninjas, was just kind of an "aside". As a kid, I really was intrigued when they were first introduced. There really weren't any other ninja characters in the mainstream yet, and it was cool to learn about them and the mystique. Once everyone and their brother had "ninja" training, it kind of ruined it. Now everyone is a ninja - even the mailman. My point was that batman was cool because of his gadgets, his cool car, using his brain to beat the enemy, and his vigilante m.o. That's what made him special, just like Snake Eyes was unique because of his "ninja-ness". But hey, everyone just got promoted to ninja and had that thrown on their resume. It's annoying. They did it right with those characters and explored the whole ninja aspect; the mysticism, the history, the training - and everyone copied it.

Batman is a brawler. Period. He has a myriad of training from many areas, and combines them into his own "style" (if you'd call it that). He moves in quick, takes a group of punks out with some quick strikes to important spots, then returns to the shadows - that's totally his move. He's not interested in flashy kicks or fluid movements - he's about getting the job done and immobilizing guys quick. Anyone disagree? We've all read the books, we've all seen the movies - that's just who batman is. What he's not is a mysterious assassin, with a whole range of serious ninja killing techniques and weapons in his repertoire. Sure, he's borrowed and adapted the assassin's weapons and tricks - improving on many of them to suit his needs - but again, he has a "style" to adhere to. He uses subterfuge, the darkness, sleight of hand, cunning...all of that to defeat his enemy and strike fear into their hearts.

Snake Eyes is a different machine, and going up against him head to head...is just a bad idea for the caped crusader. He's more on par with say...Wolverine (though less hack and slash or brutal) - he's a graceful killer, with a hundred ways to paralyze or kill an opponent. Whoever was comparing batman's sword skills to Snake Eyes'...was just not even close in their assessment, and as far as Batman's arsenal of smoke bombs, batarangs, and other devices meant to confuse or stun a foe - Snake Eyes would be well-acclimated to them all. There would be no swinging down out of the darkness to surprise him or any snare that he wouldn't be well-aware of. Snake Eyes also isn't a "brawler" like Batman - he leans more towards the mystic and old secret techniques of the forgotten masters - like the death palm that shatters internal organs (watch GIJOE RESOLUTE on the "seven steps to the sun" moves he destroys SS with), or using his Zen teachings to change his alpha brain waves to blow up a machine Dr. Mindbender has him strapped to (GI JOE annual #3), and many other "metaphysical/superhuman" techniques that would put him a step ahead.

How is batman going to fight him? Run him over with his car? In hand to hand, he's outmatched, his gadgets will do jack and crap, and at long range, Snake will dust him with his uzis (or just the classic grenade toss and frag the hell out of him - my favorite). Given time, Bruce might be able to study his enemy and figure out a way to defeat him, but in an initial confrontation, he would be cooked - and Snake wouldn't let him back up for a rematch. Sorry.

Yeah, because Batman totally hasn't beaten trained soldiers before... Batman didn't just receive Special Forces training, or ninja training, he received better. Just because Snake-Eyes was in the military and a ninja clan doesn't put him past Batman, he spent years perfecting nearly every know martial arts known to Earth, trained himself mentally to become a genius, and honing his body to physical perfection (superhuman by real world standards).

Batman's not a ninja. He's a martial artist. Honestly, do you think the definition of "ninja" is someone who is trained in nearly every martial art know to man, a genius, master tactician, and has a variety of high tech gadgets which he created himself? No, he doesn't. You're just nitpicking now because you don't like the fact that Batman has mastered a bunch of martial arts which you think was stolen from Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow.

And you're completely misunderstanding Batman. He's not just some guy who stays in the shadows. Sure, he does use that in his fighting, by no means does that mean he can't hold his own in a fight. He's taken on master martial artists, hoards of assassins/ninjas, and superhumans, all without using stealth.

How exactly does Snake-Eyes being a "graceful killer" put him above Batman? Batman has nerve strikes which can paralyze with a touch. It's worked against superhuman bruisers like Solomon Grundy. It doesn't matter if it's non-lethal, Snake-Eyes will be paralyzed or unconscious once hit with that. Killing isn't necessarily more efficient, or easier. With Batman's vast load of knowledge, He won't be hindered because he's trying to look for ways to incapacitate rather than kill- he can do it as easily as killing.

And no, Snake-Eyes will not dust him with his Uzis or frag him with his grenades. Batman's dodged automatic fire at close range. He's reacted to sniper rifles, which are mostly hypersonic. So you think he can be taken out by bullets, when he's consistently dodged them with ease? Sorry, but no. And grenades? Batman's obviously fast enough to get out of range, but even if he can't, his Batsuit has tanked giant explosions before. A grenade will be no different. And Snake-Eyes by no means outclasses Batman in hand to hand. 127 forms of martial arts? Yeah, Snake-Eyes TOTALLY beats that...

In the end, Batman's more skilled, has better armor, better gadgets, and is far smarter than Snake-Eyes.

#56 Posted by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

@immortalone: Lol okay immortal, I'm "replying" directly to you...

I am not a batman "fanboi" as are you - I hate DC and most of their characters are gayer than Richard Simmons on a gay cruise ship. Batman is probably the only DC character I can stomach or actually like. I must've missed the comics where Bruce was trained by "all of the masters of the martial arts in the world" and "Mastered 127 forms of martial arts". HAHHAHAHAHAHHA!

That is F&^% impossible! I understand we're talking about comic characters here, but that is IMPOSSIBLE! I was taught Wing Chun and Fatshan Shaolin kung Fu by a man who just turned 70, and who has only "mastered" less than a dozen forms - which is quite a feat in itself. But I guess Bruce Wayne built the Delorean and went back into time, and studied each of his 127 forms for 10 years or more each, and then invented an immortality serum so he had the 1200+ years to accumulate that much knowledge. Damn, I didn't know he was "that" good. And if DC comics has actually made this his backstory, they are dumber than I thought. Thank god I only take my info on batman from the old 60s, 70s, and 80s books and the movies and not this new information where batman has superhuman strength enough to lift 1000 lbs easily lol. Cripes.

I would continue to argue the point, but I thought we were talking about Batman, not gay overpowered impossible man. Also, I didn't talk like a little fag and use the word "iz" or speak like a 12 year old. I was using solid arguments, but obviously you have a huge hard on for batman, so I won't spoil your wet dream.

Duh, it's impossible. This is a world with Superman, Flash, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, ec. Doesn't take away the fact that it's canon, and evidenced on more than one occasion. Jesus Christ, just because it can't happen in the real world doesn't mean that we don't include it.

And you're in no position to complain. Snake-Eyes is fast enough to deflect bullets, and IIRC, he's lifted a tank before. Oh wow, that's impossible, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You're over here talking about Zen waves overloading mind controllers, so gee, Batman is real unrealistic.

Oh, so I support Batman, I must wank to him. Yeah, real mature.

#58 Edited by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

you're a moron. DC is gay. I'll see you in t next discussion board "Batman vs Zeus" (obviously batman would beat all of the gods too)

So what, you have no good argument and resort to calling me a moron and saying DC is gay? Flagged for insults.

#59 Posted by Deranged Midget (17598 posts) - - Show Bio

Guys, can we tone it down a bit. Just keep it on a respectful level and have fun. There's no reason to get riled up.

Moderator
#60 Posted by kenobi26 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Flag away. For you to say I have "no good argument" is completely absurd!! I gave you paragraph after paragraph of information and basically all you could say in return was, "Nuh uh! Batman dodges lasers and bullets and the movies didn't make him powerful enough!! Cry cry cry!" Are you 12?? Last time I'd read a batman book, he was still a "normal" guy in peak physical shape, with cool gadgets and a car. That's the batman I know, and the one I've known for years. If they've made him into some demi-god, then shame in terrible writers and bastardizing a good character. And shame on the community that reads batman for tolerating that. Sorry, the Chris Nolan/Frank Miller vision for batman is the one I follow, not the ridiculous "I can build a machine to fight gods" batman and all of the other crap you mentioned. The batman I knew took out crooks with guns and very little training, and had a hell of a challenge if he squared off against Grod. So, you'll forgive me if I easn't comparing a hybrid Tony Stark-Hulk batman to Snake Eyes. I'll just have to wait until Marvel rewrites him with.laser vision, flight and steel skin to compete....oh wait, they're not DC, so they wouldn't. In reality, if we sawa batman snake fight in the books, batman wouldn't lose because it's a popularity contest. Not based on sense. The writers would find a way to make it a draw or throw a curve in to save his ass. Snake would prob beat the snot out of him, and in typical batman fashion, he would retrain himself, study what he did wrong, and come back for a win. Both contestanra have a newfound respect for each other, and disappear into the night. The end.

#61 Posted by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

Flag away. For you to say I have "no good argument" is completely absurd!! I gave you paragraph after paragraph of information and basically all you could say in return was, "Nuh uh! Batman dodges lasers and bullets and the movies didn't make him powerful enough!! Cry cry cry!" Are you 12??

Your last post was JUST calling me a moron and saying DC was gay. And the post before that was about how you hated the new Batman and wanted him to be realistic by real world standards.

"Paragraph after paragraph of information?" You mean, just basically saying that Snake-Eyes was a "real ninja" and served in Special Forces, and that somehow put him above Batman?

And how is that what I said? I gave a detailed argument listing Batman's skills and what he's done, while you have yet to display a feat that puts Snake-Eyes past that. It's funny how people like you always say the other person is crying, or calling them a little kid, despite the fact that you are clearly the one being immature here. I have not personally insulted you, while your post is just 50% insults.

Last time I'd read a batman book, he was still a "normal" guy in peak physical shape, with cool gadgets and a car. That's the batman I know, and the one I've known for years. If they've made him into some demi-god, then shame in terrible writers and bastardizing a good character. And shame on the community that reads batman for tolerating that. Sorry, the Chris Nolan/Frank Miller vision for batman is the one I follow, not the ridiculous "I can build a machine to fight gods" batman and all of the other crap you mentioned. The batman I knew took out crooks with guns and very little training, and had a hell of a challenge if he squared off against Grod. So, you'll forgive me if I easn't comparing a hybrid Tony Stark-Hulk batman to Snake Eyes. I'll just have to wait until Marvel rewrites him with.laser vision, flight and steel skin to compete....oh wait, they're not DC, so they wouldn't.

So what, your argument is the fact that you don't like Batman to do unrealistic stuff, despite solid evidence that he did indeed do all of these things, and that's why you think Snake-Eyes would win? Your not even supporting your opinion anymore, your just criticizing Batman and DC, talking about him in the 60s, and then saying Snake-Eyes could beat him.

In reality, if we sawa batman snake fight in the books, batman wouldn't lose because it's a popularity contest. Not based on sense. The writers would find a way to make it a draw or throw a curve in to save his ass. Snake would prob beat the snot out of him, and in typical batman fashion, he would retrain himself, study what he did wrong, and come back for a win. Both contestanra have a newfound respect for each other, and disappear into the night. The end.

You have yet to actually give a reason putting Snake-Eyes past my feats of Batman. Just "Snake would prob beat the snot out of him" without any evidence to actually back up your point.

#62 Posted by kenobi26 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

I've been giving you LISTS of reasons, but all you want to do is not listen. It's pointless to talk to someone who clearly doesn't have common sense. I'll make it really easy for you, since the longer paragraphs hurt your toddler brain: Overpowered, laser-dodging, god-fighting batman would beat Snake Eyesin a fight. As a normal man without godlike intellect, the ability to shatter steel walls or learn 127 forms of martial arts overnight, he just can't compete. And frankly, who can? The human being version of batman-the "underpowered" one ypu dislike so much (which, by the way is the not gay one) would be hard pressed to beat Snake. The reasons I gave, just like before, is that Snake had better military/demolitions/special forces/ninjitsu/martial arts training. He uses guns, doesnt have a misguided sense of honor in not killing, and batman doesnt have anything in his belt that Snake hasnt seen before. His only saving grace is his ability, given time, to figure out his opponent's weaknesses. I would give the first round to Snake but the second to Bruce. But I know this doesnt compute in your world and I'm wasting my time talking to you.

#63 Edited by dondave (26547 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, Snake Eyes is simply outclassed

#64 Posted by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

I've been giving you LISTS of reasons, but all you want to do is not listen. It's pointless to talk to someone who clearly doesn't have common sense. I'll make it really easy for you, since the longer paragraphs hurt your toddler brain: Overpowered, laser-dodging, god-fighting batman would beat Snake Eyesin a fight. As a normal man without godlike intellect, the ability to shatter steel walls or learn 127 forms of martial arts overnight, he just can't compete. And frankly, who can? The human being version of batman-the "underpowered" one ypu dislike so much (which, by the way is the not gay one) would be hard pressed to beat Snake. The reasons I gave, just like before, is that Snake had better military/demolitions/special forces/ninjitsu/martial arts training. He uses guns, doesnt have a misguided sense of honor in not killing, and batman doesnt have anything in his belt that Snake hasnt seen before. His only saving grace is his ability, given time, to figure out his opponent's weaknesses. I would give the first round to Snake but the second to Bruce. But I know this doesnt compute in your world and I'm wasting my time talking to you.

"LISTS of reasons?!" Please, don't make me laugh. Your only "reasons" are that you hate the real Batman, hate DC, and only talk about Nolan Batman, despite the fact that he's not even the canon version.

This Batman that you think is "gay" and "overpowered" IS Batman. The "human" version of Batman is twenty years outdated, or the movie version.

So, your argument is basically that "BATMAN NEEDZ 2 BE HUMAN, SNAKE-EYES WINS!!!"

#65 Posted by silverJuggernaut (129 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake eyes ftw.

#66 Edited by Owen_Porter (83152 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:
I was taught Wing Chun and Fatshan Shaolin kung Fu by a man who just turned 70, and who has only "mastered" less than a dozen forms - which is quite a feat in itself.

I would continue to argue the point, but I thought we were talking about Batman, not gay overpowered impossible man. Also, I didn't talk like a little fag and use the word "iz" or speak like a 12 year old. I was using solid arguments, but obviously you have a huge hard on for batman, so I won't spoil your wet dream.

Its a shame he didnt teach you anything about true martial arts. I havent seen many Wing Chun or Kung Fu apprentices running around calling people "fags."

Moderator
#67 Posted by kenobi26 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler: HAHAHAHAHAH! No. Where did you learn about "true" martial arts? A comic book or bad cartoons? And how many Wing Chun, Fatshan (or Kung Fu in general) practitioners have you met? Also, they don't call it an "apprentice" - it's not f%$#ing Star Wars! Jesus!

Actually, in the "glory days" of Chinese fist fighting (kung fu), it was customary for one martial artist to "call out" another (insulting him was part of this), say his kung fu was "crap" and settle it with fists. Period.

And Immortal, I told you I was done talking to you - you're a moron. You're so hopped up on your Superman version of Batman that there's no talking to you. And nowhere in anything I posted did I write like some jackass, mouth-breathing twit (I don't say "Needz" or use numbers for words) ; I'm a college-educated person who has zero tolerance for bastardizing the English language - even in your sorry attempt to make me sound ignorant and yourself superior somehow. You're a child. Go back to "Super-Batman world". And yes, my OPINION still stands - despite your nonsense - that the Batman that they've dumbed down for the A.D.D. kids is absurd. "Outdated" or not - the regular old batman was way cooler. Sorry. Get over it.

#68 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (10235 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Batman wins due to gadgets...1 magnetic batarang and pretty much all of Snake Eye's tools are gone.

Round 2: Batman wins due to prep time, they both have it but Batman always wins prep battles with street levelers. Like bringing advanced armors and vehicles ....

@kenobi26 said:

@gambler: HAHAHAHAHAH! No. Where did you learn about "true" martial arts? A comic book or bad cartoons? And how many Wing Chun, Fatshan (or Kung Fu in general) practitioners have you met? Also, they don't call it an "apprentice" - it's not f%$#ing Star Wars! Jesus!

Actually, in the "glory days" of Chinese fist fighting (kung fu), it was customary for one martial artist to "call out" another (insulting him was part of this), say his kung fu was "crap" and settle it with fists. Period.

And Immortal, I told you I was done talking to you - you're a moron. You're so hopped up on your Superman version of Batman that there's no talking to you. And nowhere in anything I posted did I write like some jackass, mouth-breathing twit (I don't say "Needz" or use numbers for words) ; I'm a college-educated person who has zero tolerance for bastardizing the English language - even in your sorry attempt to make me sound ignorant and yourself superior somehow. You're a child. Go back to "Super-Batman world". And yes, my OPINION still stands - despite your nonsense - that the Batman that they've dumbed down for the A.D.D. kids is absurd. "Outdated" or not - the regular old batman was way cooler. Sorry. Get over it.

#69 Edited by Owen_Porter (83152 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26: I'm not arguing with you. I'm just letting you know you've been warned for making homophobic remarks as well as name calling. No real martial arts "practitioner" runs around a comicbook message board calling people fag and moron. Enjoy the rest of your day :)

Moderator
#70 Edited by ImmortalOne (2846 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

@gambler: HAHAHAHAHAH! No. Where did you learn about "true" martial arts? A comic book or bad cartoons? And how many Wing Chun, Fatshan (or Kung Fu in general) practitioners have you met? Also, they don't call it an "apprentice" - it's not f%$#ing Star Wars! Jesus!

Actually, in the "glory days" of Chinese fist fighting (kung fu), it was customary for one martial artist to "call out" another (insulting him was part of this), say his kung fu was "crap" and settle it with fists. Period.

And Immortal, I told you I was done talking to you - you're a moron. You're so hopped up on your Superman version of Batman that there's no talking to you. And nowhere in anything I posted did I write like some jackass, mouth-breathing twit (I don't say "Needz" or use numbers for words) ; I'm a college-educated person who has zero tolerance for bastardizing the English language - even in your sorry attempt to make me sound ignorant and yourself superior somehow. You're a child. Go back to "Super-Batman world". And yes, my OPINION still stands - despite your nonsense - that the Batman that they've dumbed down for the A.D.D. kids is absurd. "Outdated" or not - the regular old batman was way cooler. Sorry. Get over it.

College educated? You mean, intelligent college educated students go around saying Batman is gay, DC is gay, and anybody who you disagree with is gay?

Be done talking to me for all I care. You seem to think that just because you love your 80s Batman so much, that's the version that applies in every case scenario especially when you want the opposition to win, and the real version is somehow a "Superman."

By your logic, I think Snake-Eyes is stupid homophobic twat who can get knocked out by a dust speck landing on his head. So yeah, BATMAN WINS!!! LOLOLOLOL.

And Immortal, I told you I was done talking to you

You realize, by making this post, that you are in fact talking to me?

#71 Edited by Batman242 (4798 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

@gambler: HAHAHAHAHAH! No. Where did you learn about "true" martial arts? A comic book or bad cartoons? And how many Wing Chun, Fatshan (or Kung Fu in general) practitioners have you met? Also, they don't call it an "apprentice" - it's not f%$#ing Star Wars! Jesus!

Actually, in the "glory days" of Chinese fist fighting (kung fu), it was customary for one martial artist to "call out" another (insulting him was part of this), say his kung fu was "crap" and settle it with fists. Period.

And Immortal, I told you I was done talking to you - you're a moron. You're so hopped up on your Superman version of Batman that there's no talking to you. And nowhere in anything I posted did I write like some jackass, mouth-breathing twit (I don't say "Needz" or use numbers for words) ; I'm a college-educated person who has zero tolerance for bastardizing the English language - even in your sorry attempt to make me sound ignorant and yourself superior somehow. You're a child. Go back to "Super-Batman world". And yes, my OPINION still stands - despite your nonsense - that the Batman that they've dumbed down for the A.D.D. kids is absurd. "Outdated" or not - the regular old batman was way cooler. Sorry. Get over it.

I have to applaud you.... I've never seen anything this silly before.

#72 Posted by Charetter115 (475 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins both... The first round he gets messed up however... Still wins. Round two, Batman takes him out with little trouble.

#73 Posted by Owen_Porter (83152 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26: @immortalone: We're all going to move on now. He took some shots, you took some shots, now move on and debate the topic without delving into name calling. Thanks.

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#74 Posted by HeartsUnity (8 posts) - - Show Bio

I am a huge fan of both, would hate to see one lose but Batman is a tactical genius. I think their hand to hand and weapon arsenal are pretty much on par the only difference is strategic prowess which I think Batman takes hands down, so in this case Bats gets the win over Snake Eyes in a tough fight.

#75 Posted by Raw_Material (3207 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Snake Eyes for round 1 and Batman for round 2.

#76 Posted by wanonalake (292 posts) - - Show Bio

snake eyes takes this with little effort. One shot throught batboys mouth hole and he is gone.

#77 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake Eyes wins round 1

#78 Posted by comic_book_fan (4448 posts) - - Show Bio

batman

#79 Posted by Cable_Extreme (6809 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a fun battle, Snake eye's the sword ninja. However, feat wise, Batman takes this.

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#80 Posted by GraniteSoldier (4478 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Snake Eyes; 6/10.

Round 2: Batman; 9/10.

#81 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: Sounds reasonable. I'd give Snake probably a win more, but same ballpark.

#82 Posted by GraniteSoldier (4478 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean:

He's very even with Batman, I agree. He doesn't bring much that Batman hasn't seen before in a random encounter, he's just a helluva lot better at it than Batman is used to in one person. I could see him taking more than 6/10 in a random, but I also think Batman has the ability to justifiably take a decent amount.

Round 1 is the fight between them I'd really want to see.

#83 Edited by Wolverine08 (26333 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Batman can take majorities in both rounds.

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#84 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with you except I think Snake with an uzi and swords and stuff has a damn good chance. "Better" equipment (easier to use may be the better term) and a lack of jobber aura. I think he may be flexible enough to get 2-3/10 in the prep fight. Arishikage mindset ftw.

And yeah, if we had a list of 10 dream fights, this would be very high on mine.

#85 Posted by lesterlawton (470 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Snake Eyes. Batfans tend to forget how often Batman loses a first encounter.

Round 2: Bats 6/10. Snake Eyes is extremely intelligent and arguably just as skilled in the martial department as Bats. He takes a few.

#86 Posted by GraniteSoldier (4478 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean:

I can agree with all of that, perhaps I was a bit too hard on Snake. I was mostly comparing prep feats for the two, and The Eyes Man usually preps for a mission based on the abilities of his enemy whereas Bat's prep could be considered overkill. But even then, would he need it? It's hard to tell. Round two, as I said, I may have been a little hard on Snake, but Bat's still takes the majority.

As someone who reads both Batman and GI Joe regularly I say with confidence Snake Eyes takes round 1. His hand to hand is absolutely on Bruce's level and he's far less restrictive than Bruce. And like you said, his Blades and MP9s may not be anything special to Batman, but Batman hasn't run across anyone as good with them as Snake is.

I stick by my original predictions: Round 1 goes to Snake Eyes 6/10; but I'll adjust round two to 8/10 Bats, just because I agree Snake Eyes is tactically sound in good mission preparedness.

#87 Posted by MonsterStomp (13087 posts) - - Show Bio

Round One: Batman should win in an entertaining fight.

Round Two: Batman has it easy.

#88 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I can dig it. I have to admit I am shaking my head with all of this "Batman easy" commentary. Snake Eyes would drag Bruce to his limit, then kick him past it's threshold before he went down. Every damn time.

#89 Posted by MonsterStomp (13087 posts) - - Show Bio

Snake Eyes would drag Bruce to his limit, then kick him past it's threshold before he went down. Every damn time.

Agreed with that.

#90 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio
#91 Posted by MonsterStomp (13087 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Snake Eyes is one of the characters I want to be well versed on. He comes pretty close to Batman to be honest.

#92 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: I lost track of a lot of his stuff after Marvel lost the rights. But that dude is a straight up combat monster. He has his face burned off and even when everybody was telling him the mission was over, he pulled a "F that" and ran over the bad guys like they were schoolgirls. That's not even the coolest thing he's done, but it's one of my favorites.

#93 Edited by MonsterStomp (13087 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: He blitzes a bunch of android soldiers despite being weak, having all guns pointed on him and being monitored (IIRC). He's crazy cool and Storm Shadow is just as badass.

#94 Edited by SlimJ87D (8906 posts) - - Show Bio

@kenobi26 said:

My point was that while Bruce was walking around brooding in his Armani sweaters, Snake was in Southeast Asia being a hard ass Special Forces Commando. So, you take a guy with that kind of training and send him to be trained by a serious ninja clan (not the budget ninja crooks led by a punk), and then put him back into ANOTHER special forces elite unit that doesn't spend it's days beating up nickel-a-dozen crooks, and you've got a serious contender there.

The problem is that it doesn't sound like many people here have done their reading on Snake Eyes, and are quick to jump on the Dark Knight bandwagon. I don't blame them - he's obviously an iconic, long-standing figure (and hell, I like the guy too), but don't count Snake Eyes out.

My point about Snake and SS being the "original" comic book world ninjas, was just kind of an "aside". As a kid, I really was intrigued when they were first introduced. There really weren't any other ninja characters in the mainstream yet, and it was cool to learn about them and the mystique. Once everyone and their brother had "ninja" training, it kind of ruined it. Now everyone is a ninja - even the mailman. My point was that batman was cool because of his gadgets, his cool car, using his brain to beat the enemy, and his vigilante m.o. That's what made him special, just like Snake Eyes was unique because of his "ninja-ness". But hey, everyone just got promoted to ninja and had that thrown on their resume. It's annoying. They did it right with those characters and explored the whole ninja aspect; the mysticism, the history, the training - and everyone copied it.

Batman is a brawler. Period. He has a myriad of training from many areas, and combines them into his own "style" (if you'd call it that). He moves in quick, takes a group of punks out with some quick strikes to important spots, then returns to the shadows - that's totally his move. He's not interested in flashy kicks or fluid movements - he's about getting the job done and immobilizing guys quick. Anyone disagree? We've all read the books, we've all seen the movies - that's just who batman is. What he's not is a mysterious assassin, with a whole range of serious ninja killing techniques and weapons in his repertoire. Sure, he's borrowed and adapted the assassin's weapons and tricks - improving on many of them to suit his needs - but again, he has a "style" to adhere to. He uses subterfuge, the darkness, sleight of hand, cunning...all of that to defeat his enemy and strike fear into their hearts.

Snake Eyes is a different machine, and going up against him head to head...is just a bad idea for the caped crusader. He's more on par with say...Wolverine (though less hack and slash or brutal) - he's a graceful killer, with a hundred ways to paralyze or kill an opponent. Whoever was comparing batman's sword skills to Snake Eyes'...was just not even close in their assessment, and as far as Batman's arsenal of smoke bombs, batarangs, and other devices meant to confuse or stun a foe - Snake Eyes would be well-acclimated to them all. There would be no swinging down out of the darkness to surprise him or any snare that he wouldn't be well-aware of. Snake Eyes also isn't a "brawler" like Batman - he leans more towards the mystic and old secret techniques of the forgotten masters - like the death palm that shatters internal organs (watch GIJOE RESOLUTE on the "seven steps to the sun" moves he destroys SS with), or using his Zen teachings to change his alpha brain waves to blow up a machine Dr. Mindbender has him strapped to (GI JOE annual #3), and many other "metaphysical/superhuman" techniques that would put him a step ahead.

How is batman going to fight him? Run him over with his car? In hand to hand, he's outmatched, his gadgets will do jack and crap, and at long range, Snake will dust him with his uzis (or just the classic grenade toss and frag the hell out of him - my favorite). Given time, Bruce might be able to study his enemy and figure out a way to defeat him, but in an initial confrontation, he would be cooked - and Snake wouldn't let him back up for a rematch. Sorry.

This is actually a very well constructed argument in support of Snake Eyes. It's a shame this user isn't around that much. I'm taking about this post, not anything before or after.

#95 Posted by RisingBean (2834 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: 100% agreed. It's too bad he got mad and stamped his feet. But that post has my seal of approval.

@monsterstomp: He wrote the badass handbook 1982 version.

#96 Posted by patrat18 (6738 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Batman, Snake Eyes is simply outclassed

#98 Posted by lowlaville (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

The amount of nonsense in this thread is........actually fairly impressive

Batman both rounds. Snake Eyes isn't anything he hasn't already beaten down a dozen times over his career. On the other hand, there is literally no one in the GI Joe universe with half the track record Batman has. Blame the more fantastical nature of the DC/Marvel universes, but Snake Eyes is outgunned plain and simple.

I don't know how anyone thinks some argument that's mostly based on the Nolan Batman and a poor understanding of Batman in general or something about Snake Eyes being in the military or carrying Uzi's (because as we all know, guns + military service is an insta-win against comic book street levelers) is supposed to be well-informed or impressive, but eh..........

Lets face it though....bat man needs hours of prepping to take on guys like those in the GI joes. I know hes an expert fighter and all, and despite what you are saying about the portrayal in live media, there are faster action stars out there, faster than Nolan. The portrayal makes sense, and does justice as compared to those of the animated series.

#100 Edited by lowlaville (2891 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Well, you did refer to Nolan. I just let on what I thought about that point. I don't have enough knowledge on either Batman or Snake Eyes to jump into a debate, and I rarely even bother to reply. That particular comment was in general referring to the poor performance by a star, which might not have been the case, since the movies were a hit, and did adequate justice to the character. Batman has never been portrayed as being fast. Or at least, not where I have seen him perform. Of course its an entirely different matter that he always outperforms his competition.