Batman vs Silver Surfer

Anti-Power-Cosmic-Batarang GO!

@isaac_clarke: Surfer would kill him before he had time to throw the thing

@isaac_clarke: I didn't think you were but I'm currently on a most likely fruitless quest to end this nonsense of people claiming Batman can win in a fight with people who could destroy him on an atomic level before he had time to think let alone do anything useful with whatever prep he had

Silver Surfer I believe...........

@isaac_clarke: It just bafflesme that anyone whose actually read a comic featuring the Silver Surfer that actually considers this a fair fight

Silver Surfer 

@Suggs44 said:

SS for the absolute win. Why even make this thread guy?

I couldn't have said it better myself.

This should be locked IMO

@Sherlock said:

Batman wins Via this

I F#!$#ing love this!!

"Prep"...what the %$@! does that even mean?

Let's talk about "prep" for a minute.

For one, why is it taken for granted that there's a 1:1 ratio between "prep time" and how badass Batman is? Like, "Oh Batman could beat Superman with 1 month of prep, and Galactus is a thousand times more powerful than Superman, therefore Batman needs 1000 months of prep". Stupid. I just don't understand how that works. At all. Here's why:

In order for Batman to "prep" for Superman (the most powerful creature on the planet), Batman needs to grab a kryptonite ring and maybe a red sunlight projector. Probably takes about 30 seconds to grab those items from the closet.

So how is more time for "prep" going to help Batman beat Superman more thoroughly? Specifically? What exactly can Batman do in 1 year that he can't do in one month? Or a few hours? Is he going to grab the kryptonite ring and red sun lamp from his closet really slowly? How does that help?

To put this another way, there's a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point, no extra time is going to help.

The other silly thing about "Batman vs" discussions is when the argument becomes, "Batman could call for help from Superman, therefore Batman beats the Silver Surfer". No...then Superman beats the Silver Surfer. "Batman can borrow GL's ring!". Then we're really talking about Green Lantern vs SS, aren't we? (yes we are).

Prep or no prep, there's nothing Batman can do to take down SS. They're totally different characters functioning on completely different levels. Batman's equipped to beat up muggers. The Silver Surfer is equipped to beat up fleets of starships, pacify entire planets, and fight gods, demons, and cosmic entities.

Batman loses. Hard. Every time. Without question.

@Bo88gdan said:

Silver Surfer

Mismatch of epic proportions, SS all day everyday.

Give Batman five years of prep and he loses 10/10

Give Batman ten years of prep and he loses 10/10

Give Batman thirty years of prep and he loses 10/10

SS wins this so many ways it's not even funny

End of story

Why is this thread not locked yet?

prep or no prep Batman will be massacred

Surfer will come to DC

and slay Batman

Superman furious will try to revenge him

but get murdered too

Power girl will give it a try

but she get ripped

JLA get the news

but one by one they get butchered

THE END.

@TwoGunGunnar said:

"Prep"...what the %$@! does that even mean?

Let's talk about "prep" for a minute.

For one, why is it taken for granted that there's a 1:1 ratio between "prep time" and how badass Batman is? Like, "Oh Batman could beat Superman with 1 month of prep, and Galactus is a thousand times more powerful than Superman, therefore Batman needs 1000 months of prep". Stupid. I just don't understand how that works. At all. Here's why:

In order for Batman to "prep" for Superman (the most powerful creature on the planet), Batman needs to grab a kryptonite ring and maybe a red sunlight projector. Probably takes about 30 seconds to grab those items from the closet.

So how is more time for "prep" going to help Batman beat Superman more thoroughly? Specifically? What exactly can Batman do in 1 year that he can't do in one month? Or a few hours? Is he going to grab the kryptonite ring and red sun lamp from his closet really slowly? How does that help?

To put this another way, there's a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point, no extra time is going to help.

The other silly thing about "Batman vs" discussions is when the argument becomes, "Batman could call for help from Superman, therefore Batman beats the Silver Surfer". No...then Superman beats the Silver Surfer. "Batman can borrow GL's ring!". Then we're really talking about Green Lantern vs SS, aren't we? (yes we are).

Prep or no prep, there's nothing Batman can do to take down SS. They're totally different characters functioning on completely different levels. Batman's equipped to beat up muggers. The Silver Surfer is equipped to beat up fleets of starships, pacify entire planets, and fight gods, demons, and cosmic entities.

Batman loses. Hard. Every time. Without question.

You don't understand Batman or prep do you?

For a good clip about Batman's prep ability go watch the movie Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 2.

In it he preps for years for his eventual showdown with Superman; and he doesn't just "grab a kryptonite ring". (Making it was prep by the way).

He uses his prep to set up multiple rocket launches that are auto-targetting and auto-firing, the can actually scan for beings using X-Ray powers; he built a massive battle-mech suit, created a special pill for his plan, upgraded his batmobile (it's got more firepower, more defence, etc.), planned how the fight would go (as in where exactly for Robin to drive the batmobile), and of course the biggest time/money consumer: he designed and built a special piece of kryptonite that is intended to break apart into gas molecules that will spread throught Superman's system when he grabs it (so he can't simply throw it away) with the exact concentration to render Superman powerless but still alive with the Kryptonite eventually leaving his system so he lives, but is defeated. All while faking his own death.

Batman's prep isn't a simple "grab the ring" excersize, it involves highly complex planning (like his plans in The Tower of Babel that were successful in taking down the entire JLA).

Now, as for the actual topic: SS wins. Giving Batman prep is great but there's two major flaws here:

1) 1 Month prep isn't really enough for Batman to fully formulate a plan, then design and create a device; not when it's to deal with someone completely new with a completely new set of abilities/power source.

2) This is the biggest factor; Batman's prep is pretty much useless without knowledge. Batman prep's for the JLA and other DC heroes because he knows them; he's spent time gathering intel on each of them and knows their weaknesses. The SS is completely new; Batman knows nothing about him or where his powers come from so 1 month of prep is useless as he has no idea what he's really prepping for. He would need much more time and far more importantly there would have to be much more intel available for gathering.

Prep for funeral, SS kills him no matter how much prep time Batman has.

@rpottage: @rpottage said:

@TwoGunGunnar said:

"Prep"...what the %$@! does that even mean?

Let's talk about "prep" for a minute.

For one, why is it taken for granted that there's a 1:1 ratio between "prep time" and how badass Batman is? Like, "Oh Batman could beat Superman with 1 month of prep, and Galactus is a thousand times more powerful than Superman, therefore Batman needs 1000 months of prep". Stupid. I just don't understand how that works. At all. Here's why:

In order for Batman to "prep" for Superman (the most powerful creature on the planet), Batman needs to grab a kryptonite ring and maybe a red sunlight projector. Probably takes about 30 seconds to grab those items from the closet.

So how is more time for "prep" going to help Batman beat Superman more thoroughly? Specifically? What exactly can Batman do in 1 year that he can't do in one month? Or a few hours? Is he going to grab the kryptonite ring and red sun lamp from his closet really slowly? How does that help?

To put this another way, there's a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point, no extra time is going to help.

The other silly thing about "Batman vs" discussions is when the argument becomes, "Batman could call for help from Superman, therefore Batman beats the Silver Surfer". No...then Superman beats the Silver Surfer. "Batman can borrow GL's ring!". Then we're really talking about Green Lantern vs SS, aren't we? (yes we are).

Prep or no prep, there's nothing Batman can do to take down SS. They're totally different characters functioning on completely different levels. Batman's equipped to beat up muggers. The Silver Surfer is equipped to beat up fleets of starships, pacify entire planets, and fight gods, demons, and cosmic entities.

Batman loses. Hard. Every time. Without question.

You don't understand Batman or prep do you?

For a good clip about Batman's prep ability go watch the movie Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 2.

In it he preps for years for his eventual showdown with Superman; and he doesn't just "grab a kryptonite ring". (Making it was prep by the way).

He uses his prep to set up multiple rocket launches that are auto-targetting and auto-firing, the can actually scan for beings using X-Ray powers; he built a massive battle-mech suit, created a special pill for his plan, upgraded his batmobile (it's got more firepower, more defence, etc.), planned how the fight would go (as in where exactly for Robin to drive the batmobile), and of course the biggest time/money consumer: he designed and built a special piece of kryptonite that is intended to break apart into gas molecules that will spread throught Superman's system when he grabs it (so he can't simply throw it away) with the exact concentration to render Superman powerless but still alive with the Kryptonite eventually leaving his system so he lives, but is defeated. All while faking his own death.

Batman's prep isn't a simple "grab the ring" excersize, it involves highly complex planning (like his plans in The Tower of Babel that were successful in taking down the entire JLA).

Now, as for the actual topic: SS wins. Giving Batman prep is great but there's two major flaws here:

1) 1 Month prep isn't really enough for Batman to fully formulate a plan, then design and create a device; not when it's to deal with someone completely new with a completely new set of abilities/power source.

2) This is the biggest factor; Batman's prep is pretty much useless without knowledge. Batman prep's for the JLA and other DC heroes because he knows them; he's spent time gathering intel on each of them and knows their weaknesses. The SS is completely new; Batman knows nothing about him or where his powers come from so 1 month of prep is useless as he has no idea what he's really prepping for. He would need much more time and far more importantly there would have to be much more intel available for gathering.

Dude, all I'm saying is that this idea that "prep time" is directly proportional to what Batman can do is stupid. The "logic" is always in the form of "If it takes x time to beat someone of y power level, it takes 10x time to beat someone of 10y power level. Therefore, given enough time, Batman could beat anyone." That's stupid. There comes a point of diminishing returns where no additional amount of time is going to help Batman be any better prepared. 10 minutes, 10 days, or 10 years...some characters are out of Batman's league. Like the Silver Surfer. Batman doesn't stand a chance. Ever.

Wtf is with the ridiculous Batman battles on this site? This should've been locked after the thread was started years ago. SS sends his board through Batmans head at light speed.

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

Why is this thread not locked yet?

Because people are enjoying the discussion?

@TwoGunGunnar:

Come on. With unlimited time, one can get unlimited resources, this is physics not economics. The difference is that the universe is infinite but my bank account balance is not.

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

Wtf is with the ridiculous Batman battles on this site?

Because it's fun to argue with people who think "prep time" = godlike invincibility.

This should've been locked after the thread was started years ago.

Why? Is it ridiculous? Yes, but comic books are ridiculous. Any comic book "vs." thread is stupid and pointless. Having a conversation about a character as irritatingly overrated as Batman being on the losing side of a totally one-sided beatdown is fun.

SS sends his board through Batmans head at light speed.

Agreed.

@whydama: @whydama said:

@TwoGunGunnar:

Come on. With unlimited time, one can get unlimited resources, this is physics not economics. The difference is that the universe is infinite but my bank account balance is not.

Ok, but we're talking about Batman, not the Highlander. Batman's not immortal, nor is he "unlimited" in any capacity. If you're going to say, "If Batman had unlimited prep time, he could win!", then you might as well say, "If Batman had unlimited strength, speed, and was invulnerable he would win!". Then you're not talking about Batman anymore, you're talking about a different character. Batman's not immortal, and he doesn't have unlimited resources.

If we're going to discuss Batman vs. Whatever, then let's talk about Batman, not Super-Batman.

@FinalStar86 said:

Prep time is seriously overrated on these forums

This

@PsychoJack said:

@FinalStar86 said:

Prep time is seriously overrated on these forums

This

And seriously stupid.

Batman calls the Spectre and convinces him to destroy SS. Everyone get's rich from all the silver.

@TwoGunGunnar said:

@PsychoJack said:

@FinalStar86 said:

Prep time is seriously overrated on these forums

This

And seriously stupid.

I agree and Batman is no super like Cap America or Wolverine he is just a man who knows how to fight but nothing more.

SS stands in front of Batman and says "i will rip your molecules apart."

@TwoGunGunnar said:

@rpottage: @rpottage said:

@TwoGunGunnar said:

"Prep"...what the %$@! does that even mean?

Let's talk about "prep" for a minute.

For one, why is it taken for granted that there's a 1:1 ratio between "prep time" and how badass Batman is? Like, "Oh Batman could beat Superman with 1 month of prep, and Galactus is a thousand times more powerful than Superman, therefore Batman needs 1000 months of prep". Stupid. I just don't understand how that works. At all. Here's why:

In order for Batman to "prep" for Superman (the most powerful creature on the planet), Batman needs to grab a kryptonite ring and maybe a red sunlight projector. Probably takes about 30 seconds to grab those items from the closet.

So how is more time for "prep" going to help Batman beat Superman more thoroughly? Specifically? What exactly can Batman do in 1 year that he can't do in one month? Or a few hours? Is he going to grab the kryptonite ring and red sun lamp from his closet really slowly? How does that help?

To put this another way, there's a point of diminishing returns. After a certain point, no extra time is going to help.

The other silly thing about "Batman vs" discussions is when the argument becomes, "Batman could call for help from Superman, therefore Batman beats the Silver Surfer". No...then Superman beats the Silver Surfer. "Batman can borrow GL's ring!". Then we're really talking about Green Lantern vs SS, aren't we? (yes we are).

Prep or no prep, there's nothing Batman can do to take down SS. They're totally different characters functioning on completely different levels. Batman's equipped to beat up muggers. The Silver Surfer is equipped to beat up fleets of starships, pacify entire planets, and fight gods, demons, and cosmic entities.

Batman loses. Hard. Every time. Without question.

You don't understand Batman or prep do you?

For a good clip about Batman's prep ability go watch the movie Batman: The Dark Knight Returns Part 2.

In it he preps for years for his eventual showdown with Superman; and he doesn't just "grab a kryptonite ring". (Making it was prep by the way).

He uses his prep to set up multiple rocket launches that are auto-targetting and auto-firing, the can actually scan for beings using X-Ray powers; he built a massive battle-mech suit, created a special pill for his plan, upgraded his batmobile (it's got more firepower, more defence, etc.), planned how the fight would go (as in where exactly for Robin to drive the batmobile), and of course the biggest time/money consumer: he designed and built a special piece of kryptonite that is intended to break apart into gas molecules that will spread throught Superman's system when he grabs it (so he can't simply throw it away) with the exact concentration to render Superman powerless but still alive with the Kryptonite eventually leaving his system so he lives, but is defeated. All while faking his own death.

Batman's prep isn't a simple "grab the ring" excersize, it involves highly complex planning (like his plans in The Tower of Babel that were successful in taking down the entire JLA).

Now, as for the actual topic: SS wins. Giving Batman prep is great but there's two major flaws here:

1) 1 Month prep isn't really enough for Batman to fully formulate a plan, then design and create a device; not when it's to deal with someone completely new with a completely new set of abilities/power source.

2) This is the biggest factor; Batman's prep is pretty much useless without knowledge. Batman prep's for the JLA and other DC heroes because he knows them; he's spent time gathering intel on each of them and knows their weaknesses. The SS is completely new; Batman knows nothing about him or where his powers come from so 1 month of prep is useless as he has no idea what he's really prepping for. He would need much more time and far more importantly there would have to be much more intel available for gathering.

Dude, all I'm saying is that this idea that "prep time" is directly proportional to what Batman can do is stupid. The "logic" is always in the form of "If it takes x time to beat someone of y power level, it takes 10x time to beat someone of 10y power level. Therefore, given enough time, Batman could beat anyone." That's stupid. There comes a point of diminishing returns where no additional amount of time is going to help Batman be any better prepared. 10 minutes, 10 days, or 10 years...some characters are out of Batman's league. Like the Silver Surfer. Batman doesn't stand a chance. Ever.

Which is fair enough; but the characterization of grabbing a ring was off.

As for the Silver Surfer; I do think that given proper prep and knowledge of SS he could come up with a plan; but he would need more prep and to have actual knowledge of the character. (By more prep I mean the time to design/build the devices he might need).

The bigger problem with the Batman v. threads is that there's a lot that Batman can do to defeat people given the proper knowledge and prep time; but that it involves being completely out of character. In character Batman would get help from the league and set things up so he wouldn't need to do the things he potentially could do.

So for example: Given prep time and knowledge, Batman could:

Aquire the mathematical formula to access the Speedforce (The formula is written on an ancient tablet).

Travel to Asgard and get Uru, then have Dwarven Blacksmiths forge it into weapons and armor for him.

Upgrade his Insider Suit.

Aquire Nth-Metal Gear.

Backwards engineer a Power-ring.

Subject himself to Bang-Baby gas.

Modify the exo-gene and subject himself to it.

Study magic.

Aquire Kroton.

Aquire various other pills/drugs that do things like give superpowers, increase physical attributes, etc.

Etc.

Batman could do all of that given the proper prep time and the knowledge that he needed to do such things; in which case he'd have Flash-level speed, Green Lantern Power-ring abilities, an upgraded insider suit, Hawkman-like abilities, multiple othe unknown superpowers, magic, shapeshifting powers, superhuman physical attributes, Thor-like abilities, etc.

He would then take down Silver Surfer; it's just that all that stuff is completely out of character and Batman would never actually do any of it. Heck, since it's a crossover he could gather the Infinity Gauntlet and the gems for it; it's just that he wouldn't.

So that's the big problem with Batman v. threads; that he could do things but wouldn't do them.

@rpottage:

Agreed. If they existed in the same universe, chances are they would've crossed paths. He would probably check the FF files and think to himself..this dude is beyond even Superman..with no weaknesses..I may be in trouble. Then he would check further and see that Doom and Reed have developed ways to drain his power. He would then try to duplicate that.

Being that Surfer cuts loose alot more lately, I don't like Bats chances. But definitely like them much better than 1 month of prep with nothing to go on besides..some alien is coming to Earth. Even if Bats had a list of his abilities, he wouldn't know how to stop him.

surfer one-shots bats. there is no way that guy is taking down the surfer.

@rpottage:

He would need at least as much prep as he needed to devise the plans that Ra's Al Ghul stole from him to take down the JLA. And keep in mind, he knew all of these characters for years. GL, being the exception, but since he's known other GL's...he has a pretty good knowledge base on them. So the 1 mth prep time wouldn't cut it. It took him longer than that to come up with the plans that took out the JLA and he was initimately familiar with their abilities.

1 month isn't nearly enough time. The Dwarves of Asgard have no reason to help him and even if they did, it wouldn't be enough. If Odin enchanted his armor then yeah. But Odin doesn't generally help random mortals. He could do most of the other things you named. But they wouldn't do much to help.

I think preparation is rather overrated. Since the OP does not contain much info, I assume Batman has no knowledge of Norrin. Surfer wins quite easily (I am not saying he would lose if Batman did have knowledge of the character).

@TimDrakeRedRobin said:

i think batman wins because of better fanbase, so the writers would have to make him win =)

Not happening, Surfer has never jobbered out in crossovers, ever

He fought Orion, danced around Cyborg Supes, survived the Omega Effect hitting him from behind and impressed Supes and Mxy with his powers

I

This is spite.