#1 Edited by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

I've always wanted to see Batman race Sherlock Holmes to solve a mystery. However, Batman's equipment gives him an unfair advantage over Sherlock Holmes, so...

The race will be set some time around 1890. Batman time-travels there somehow. The murder to investigate is the crime from A Study in Scarlet, but I don't think it really matters what mystery they're solving. If you don't want A Study in Scarlet spoiled, you might not want to continue reading.

The investigation is of a man lying in a room, without any exterior injuries or signs of struggle, who is dead on the floor. The word "Rache" is written on the wall in blood, however there are no cuts on the dead man's body. The man has a wedding ring on his person. For more information, search for the book on the internet. It should be somewhere for free, where you can read it as an online text.

Batman doesn't have his utility belt or equipment, only a magnifying glass.

Sherlock Holmes has a magnifying glass.

Who solves the mystery first? Possibly more importantly, who apprehends the killer first?

I'm changing my mind. Originally I said Batman would win. However, this is why I think Holmes would win:

Even though Batman is more knowledgable of everything, Holmes matches his level of knowledge in detection. More importantly, we have proof that Holmes is able to perceive more from a crime scene than most--possibly even more than Batman. In this case, while Batman would likely analyze the body, deduce the cause of death was poison, and then realize that the word "Rache" means revenge, I don't think he would be able to solve the mystery just from that information. He would probably look to question the guard who found the body, and continue from there. On the other hand, Sherlock Holmes (in the book) is able to determine the height of the killer, his appearance, and most importantly, his motive, all from observing the foot prints around the crime scene. Just from this first event in the investigation, Holmes is already farther than Batman.

Batman's downfall is that he isn't able to think "backwards." Holmes explains that that is how he solves mysteries so adeptly. Rather than use a process of elimination (narrowing down possible suspects), he discerns the suspect's traits before ever meeting him.

#2 Posted by TERMINATOR__FAN (159 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman Stomps.

#3 Posted by eatmore_payless (2210 posts) - - Show Bio

there are many ways that proves Sherlock will never win against batman in an Investigation Showdown. The most obvious reason would be

The era. In batmans time all of the possible investigation technique, plans or whatever they call it, are already written on a book inside a library, in which batman had already read and memorized every single bit of details. While in Sherlock's case, those techniques are yet to discover.

#4 Posted by MarvelAvengersAlliance10 (222 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman...

#5 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@eatmore_payless said:

there are many ways that proves Sherlock will never win against batman in an Investigation Showdown. The most obvious reason would be

The era. In batmans time all of the possible investigation technique, plans or whatever they call it, are already written on a book inside a library, in which batman had already read and memorized every single bit of details. While in Sherlock's case, those techniques are yet to discover.

Maybe Batman has studied more than Holmes, but keep in mind that Holmes was ahead of his time. He was the inventor of the methods that Batman learned. Here's an analogy; modern day philosophers learn from many different sources, but the foundation of their learning often comes from ancient Greece. Pythagoras might have lived long ago when there weren't any books on philosophy, but today he is certainly regarded with respect by modern philosophers.

#6 Posted by HammerTron (580 posts) - - Show Bio

Sherlock Holmes would win because of his familiarity with the era. Batman could study a lot of history, but he spends most of his time in the mordern world. Batman will learn quickly while he's in the past, but Sherlock Holmes has the homefield advantage.

#7 Posted by Sherlock (7235 posts) - - Show Bio

And as anyone may have guessed at the mention of my namesake here i am.

I see the OP was edited so im not sure what was there to begin with but going by what is there now my namesake takes this.

I have always said that Holmes was by and large better than Batman but that being said Batman has modern science on his side and Holmes does not.In any normal matchup Batman has a clear advantage.

In this case Batman has all his modern techniques but no equipment in order to use most of these techniques.On top of that he is in a strange city in a different era of time.If that alone doesnt freak him out chances are a guy in a batsuit will freak everyone else out.Getting information will be very bothersome for him.Getting into the crime scene itself will also be next to impossible since the police will have it sealed off and wont be letting anyone in

Holmes on the other hand has all his resources here since this is his time and his city.Gathering information wont be any more difficult than normal for him.this gives him an "Elementary" win

#8 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@TERMINATOR__FAN said:

Batman Stomps.

@eatmore_payless said:

there are many ways that proves Sherlock will never win against batman in an Investigation Showdown. The most obvious reason would be

The era. In batmans time all of the possible investigation technique, plans or whatever they call it, are already written on a book inside a library, in which batman had already read and memorized every single bit of details. While in Sherlock's case, those techniques are yet to discover.

@MarvelAvengersAlliance10 said:

Batman...

All this.

Totally agreed upon. Nice post Eatmore_Payless! C=

Vouile

#9 Posted by Sherlock (7235 posts) - - Show Bio

@eatmore_payless said:

there are many ways that proves Sherlock will never win against batman in an Investigation Showdown. The most obvious reason would be

The era. In batmans time all of the possible investigation technique, plans or whatever they call it, are already written on a book inside a library, in which batman had already read and memorized every single bit of details. While in Sherlock's case, those techniques are yet to discover.

This is in Holmes era.Batman is at the disadvantage in this one

#10 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sherlock said:

@eatmore_payless said:

there are many ways that proves Sherlock will never win against batman in an Investigation Showdown. The most obvious reason would be

The era. In batmans time all of the possible investigation technique, plans or whatever they call it, are already written on a book inside a library, in which batman had already read and memorized every single bit of details. While in Sherlock's case, those techniques are yet to discover.

This is in Holmes era.Batman is at the disadvantage in this one

No, you should know this Sherlock.

I'm sure Batman has studied techniques of the past and the present. He knows tactical and strategic techniques in and out.

Batman wins.

Vouile

#11 Posted by Sherlock (7235 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vouile said:

@Sherlock said:

@eatmore_payless said:

there are many ways that proves Sherlock will never win against batman in an Investigation Showdown. The most obvious reason would be

The era. In batmans time all of the possible investigation technique, plans or whatever they call it, are already written on a book inside a library, in which batman had already read and memorized every single bit of details. While in Sherlock's case, those techniques are yet to discover.

This is in Holmes era.Batman is at the disadvantage in this one

No, you should know this Sherlock.

I'm sure Batman has studied techniques of the past and the present. He knows tactical and strategic techniques in and out.

Batman wins.

Vouile

Im fully aware of what Batman is capable (Im actually a fanboy of him as well)

Id ask you read the OP.It states that Batman is in London,the year is 1890.Batman has no gear except a magnifying glass.

As great a detective as Bruce is he is way out of his element here.This is a city for all intense and purposes he has never been to where he knows absolutely no one.Getting into the crime scene is going to be a task by itself.Who would let him in?Not the police.They have no idea who this guy is.On top of that he has very little way of gathering information at all.Hes going to stick out like a sore thumb so speaking to anyone is pretty much out of the question.Even if he beats the answers out of them how will he know who to administer the beating to?

Again he is outside his city as well as his time,has no gear and no contacts.He really has nothing to go on for this

#12 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sherlock said:

I see the OP was edited so im not sure what was there to begin with but going by what is there now my namesake takes this.

I didn't change the time period. I made this thread originally with the race set in some time around 1880.

#13 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sherlock said:

Im fully aware of what Batman is capable (Im actually a fanboy of him as well)

Id ask you read the OP.It states that Batman is in London,the year is 1890.Batman has no gear except a magnifying glass.

As great a detective as Bruce is he is way out of his element here.This is a city for all intense and purposes he has never been to where he knows absolutely no one.Getting into the crime scene is going to be a task by itself.Who would let him in?Not the police.They have no idea who this guy is.On top of that he has very little way of gathering information at all.Hes going to stick out like a sore thumb so speaking to anyone is pretty much out of the question.Even if he beats the answers out of them how will he know who to administer the beating to?

Again he is outside his city as well as his time,has no gear and no contacts.He really has nothing to go on for this

Thanks, I scanned the original post, I was a little lazy. :P

But I think you're purely under estimating Batman's skills. He's a strategist and tactician, he should know what to do in a situation like this! :S And I'm sure he was an A-grader in history, but he was an A-grader in everything really! :D

And how will he get into the crime scene? Easy, he flows like a teleporting ninja! :D xD

Batman's got this!

Vouile

#14 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vouile: But can he solve the crime as quickly as Sherlock Holmes? Sherlock Holmes has a reputation for solving cases as soon as he is on the scene. He doesn't know the name of the murderer, but he knows their physical characteristics, how they killed the victim, and why they killed the victim. Batman solves crimes traditionally: questioning people in question, following clues, etc. Holmes would win because he figures everything out before he gets any additional knowledge.

#15 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2780 posts) - - Show Bio

Sherlock Holmes is beyond any crime solver there is and that includes batman,,with no special tech he can observe a scene and pick out every detail...his skills of deduction are almost superhuman,,I'd suggest reading the adventure of the empty house,,the adventure of he Norwood builder,,the adventure of the dancing men, the solitary cyclist,,the priory school,,black Peter ,,,pretty much anything written by sir Arthur Conan Doyle ....Holmes is a phenom

#16 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bane_of_sith said:

Sherlock Holmes is beyond any crime solver there is and that includes batman,,with no special tech he can observe a scene and pick out every detail...his skills of deduction are almost superhuman,,I'd suggest reading the adventure of the empty house,,the adventure of he Norwood builder,,the adventure of the dancing men, the solitary cyclist,,the priory school,,black Peter ,,,pretty much anything written by sir Arthur Conan Doyle ....Holmes is a phenom

Totally true. While Batman's character is the world's greatest detective, we never see him showcasing this great detective skill in comics. Perhaps he analyzes chemicals or learns secret identities, but I've never read a Batman comic that compares to Holmes' stories.

#17 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16004 posts) - - Show Bio

@gotwillpower said:

@Bane_of_sith said:

Sherlock Holmes is beyond any crime solver there is and that includes batman,,with no special tech he can observe a scene and pick out every detail...his skills of deduction are almost superhuman,,I'd suggest reading the adventure of the empty house,,the adventure of he Norwood builder,,the adventure of the dancing men, the solitary cyclist,,the priory school,,black Peter ,,,pretty much anything written by sir Arthur Conan Doyle ....Holmes is a phenom

Totally true. While Batman's character is the world's greatest detective, we never see him showcasing this great detective skill in comics. Perhaps he analyzes chemicals or learns secret identities, but I've never read a Batman comic that compares to Holmes' stories.

Very Agreeable. Batman is always called the best detective, but it's the writers that make the difference. Batman has good feats, but they can never explain how he did that. Doyle is better at detective-writing than all the comic writers put together.

But that doesn't stop me from reading batman :p

#18 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's close, Batman will go to greater lengths I think then Sherlock and is no doubt a better fighter and far more sneaky.

Sherlock COULD possibly be smarter detective skills wise but even that's close given what Batman has done over time.

Overall leaning Batman, but Holmes is good too.

#19 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

Sherlock Holmes.

#20 Posted by Praetor_fenix (222 posts) - - Show Bio

@gotwillpower: Pythagoras was not a philosopher he was a matematician.

#21 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

#22 Posted by Wolfrazer (6035 posts) - - Show Bio
@gotwillpower:  I think its more, that his technology that he has gives Batman the title of greatest detective in the world. Without all of it, I don't really see him that much difference then the other detectives who don't have the tech but he would be at a disadvantage compared to the others who don't rely on tech all that much but their own personal skills and what not.
#23 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Praetor_fenix said:

@gotwillpower: Pythagoras was not a philosopher he was a matematician.

From his wiki page:

Pythagoras of Samos (Ancient Greek: Πυθαγόρας ὁ Σάμιος [Πυθαγόρης in Ionian Greek] Pythagóras ho Sámios "Pythagoras the Samian", or simply Πυθαγόρας; b. about 570 – d. about 495 BC) was an Ionian Greekphilosopher, mathematician...

Philosophers study a lot of things, especially math.

#24 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wolfrazer said:

@gotwillpower: I think its more, that his technology that he has gives Batman the title of greatest detective in the world. Without all of it, I don't really see him that much difference then the other detectives who don't have the tech but he would be at a disadvantage compared to the others who don't rely on tech all that much but their own personal skills and what not.

So in this battle, you are saying that Holmes would win? (Because Batman doesn't have his utility belt in this case).

#25 Posted by gingerpenny (908 posts) - - Show Bio

Purely mystery solving Holmes takes it

#26 Posted by Wolfrazer (6035 posts) - - Show Bio
@gotwillpower said:

@Wolfrazer said:

@gotwillpower: I think its more, that his technology that he has gives Batman the title of greatest detective in the world. Without all of it, I don't really see him that much difference then the other detectives who don't have the tech but he would be at a disadvantage compared to the others who don't rely on tech all that much but their own personal skills and what not.

So in this battle, you are saying that Holmes would win? (Because Batman doesn't have his utility belt in this case).

Slightly yes, being that Batman seems to rely on his high tech gadgets to help him solve crimes. IE: His computer, lab, etc
#27 Edited by Zearing (81 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman would win, for the simple reason that he has come from the future and, from his perspective, it would of happened over 200 years ago. He would know who the killer is from reading about Sherluck solving the crime in his past.

#28 Edited by methen (2 posts) - - Show Bio

I would say Sherlock Holmes for the simple reason he unlike Batman relies totally on his wits and Brain, While Batman relies on technology and computers to solve crime, Batman him self has said that Sherlock Holmes was worlds greatest detective...

#29 Posted by Shawnbaby (10406 posts) - - Show Bio

#30 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16004 posts) - - Show Bio

The consulting detective slaughters the bat.

#31 Posted by patrat18 (8773 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

#32 Edited by killa_JAWZz (5 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that Batman has the upper hand if he was to use his equipment and computers but as it is taken away I think he is not as good as Sherlock Holmes, Sherlock Holmes has only been using a magnifying glass for all his mysteries and relies on his powers of observation and deduction but Batman relies on his equipment. If Sherlock Holmes was in the same era as Batman and had the same equipment he would be better than Batman. Also in the comics Sherlock Holmes deduced that Batman was Bruce Wayne from the beginning but chose to ignore the fact.

#33 Posted by killa_JAWZz (5 posts) - - Show Bio

#34 Posted by IheartZombies92 (2200 posts) - - Show Bio

Holmes takes it

#35 Posted by RogueShadow (9941 posts) - - Show Bio

Holmes. No contest.

#36 Edited by thelocust619 (2191 posts) - - Show Bio

Normally id be inclined to say Holmes, he's on cocaine pretty much all the time. Batman may be angry all the time but its not the same. Studying techniques from the future won't help, how can he use those techniques without any technology? (Fingerprinting, blood work...its all ineffective at thus point) Holmes brain is moving far faster than bats and he's completely familiar with the premise.

However, Batman wins for one reason...he doesn't need evidence. He can figure things out through PIS with literally no usable information ....joker left a couple periodic elements somewhere random, Batman broke it down to its chemical initials then spelled a word it totally didn't spell based on like 3 letters....he once fought a rainbow monster that shot beams of color, and based on literally NOTHING he deduced that it was created by a volcano under bulls*%$ conditions and could only be defeated through the same method. Based on LITERALLY NOTHING AT ALL!! At that, I may as well mention Robin also has this power if its convenient to the plot.

#37 Posted by copete (986 posts) - - Show Bio

#38 Edited by Jayc1324 (9301 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman

#39 Posted by Jokerpoker (2943 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have to say Batman.

#40 Edited by Stormyboltz (5 posts) - - Show Bio
@gotwillpower: I think its more, that his technology that he has gives Batman the title of greatest detective in the world. Without all of it, I don't really see him that much difference then the other detectives who don't have the tech but he would be at a disadvantage compared to the others who don't rely on tech all that much but their own personal skills and what not.

This is a terrible misconception. Batman uses tech and expertise because the actual scale he operates at is outside most detectives paygrade, including Holmes. Batman also uses tech because he's not solely a detective and is usually working on numerous crimes at once. For example in a recent issue of Justice League he deduced that Amazo was repairing itself with nanites, even Superman was baffled how he knew that.

Even Dick, who Bruce trained, was able to casually solve crimes without having to even physically be there, or use any tech, simply by watching America's Most Wanted.

Batman also seems to make some pretty inane leaps in logic, just like TheLocust619 mentioned above.

If we're actually talking about pure deductive skills and reasoning, Batman and DC for that matter seem to acknowledge that Holmes is number 1 in that regard, but Bruce and Dick for that matter are still above most other fictional detectives in terms of pure reasoning ability, and Batman having his own comparable deductive skills along with his expertise in numerous area's makes him the best detective overall though, at least in terms of how effective he is.

#41 Posted by algorhythm511 (441 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a hard one. I think for his time, Sherlock is in his own element and is much more used to not relying on tech to solve crimes. So, I am going to give it to Holmes.

#42 Posted by SUNMAN (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

Holmes

#43 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16004 posts) - - Show Bio

sherlock.

#44 Posted by Jacthripper (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormyboltz: And so does Shawn Spencer, who is a very sloppy, modern holmes