Batman vs Punisher

Batman

Punisher

Let's f*cking settle it.

Settings

• New 52 Batman, 616 Punisher.
• In character, morals on. Punisher is looking to kill Batman.
• Both are given a factfile on the other which includes basic abilities, background, technology, rogues gallery, significant accomplishments and more.
• Both are given one hour of preparation time to prepare the environment. Both will be given a workshop with all of their resources available.
• Fight to the death or permanent incapacitation.

Location

Half a mile in length, quarter mile in width. Map will be split in half by an impenetrable wall for the hours' prep. When the hour is up, the wall disappears. After that, anything goes.

Who wins?

Edit: On account of the fact Batman has access to some seriously high-end equipment, I thought I'd add in a round which is far more fair in terms of armament.

Bonus Round

Batman is equipped only with gear from his solo series'. Basically, no Unchained suits or anything along those lines. Frank is fully kitted out with the following:

• Ant Man's helmet.
• Skrull Assault Rifle.
• Two Skrull Pistols.
• Doc Ock's Adamantium Arm.
• Pumpkin Bombs.
• A Webshooter.
• All other mission-appropriate gear he can carry on his person.

Setting

The location is as pictured above, except based on the actual picture opposed to the distance I gave in the previous round. Batman and Punisher start at either side. This will be an arranged fight between them, where they meet to settle their differences. No prep time, basic knowledge on each other. Both are in-character, but Frank will kill Batman if it comes down to it. Fight to the death, knockout or incapacitation.

chew force /thread

Eh, I know I will get hate but I'm just gonna say it, stalemate

***Edited***

I could be convinced to chose differently though

@jackjack390: Anyone who gives you hate for that, isn't worth listening to.

@i_like_swords: thanks, I said that cause I just saw a thread like this and everyone said BATSPITE BATSTOMP BATGOD Ect. Ect.

@i_like_swords:

Brilliant setup. I'll need to give this some thought.

I hope you get a lot of feedback and with reasons!

Mmhmm, I saw that one. And there was another thread where Frank was given a ludicrous amount of advantage over Batman to the point it was just a stomp. This seems like a much better balance.

Cheers man.

This feels like a better thread than the other thread.

I still don't think Frank will be able to prep for gas grenade+flashbang+sonics+bat calling well enough to take a majority.

@boringperson: He can get himself a gas mask/night vision, will have access to his own flashbangs and maybe sonics. He also has goblin bombs, web shooters, armor piercing rounds, heavy explosives, mines and more. He has the chops to set up a very challenging battlefield for Bruce to fight through. Same can be said for Bruce though, maybe more so.

Much better, i'll wait for a serious debate.

@nickzambuto@jashro44@comicstooge@floopay@dogsoldier88

@i_like_swords: Ok, THIS is a thread. Both get 1 hour prep.

I can already hear the Bat-fans - who know little of the Punisher's strategic abilities - declare that Batman wins magically due to his prep. Here's the funy thing, they can't ever say how. That's why it's magic.

Whereas a Punisher fan, who enjoys the REALISM in this character, can fathom how he will prep for Batman. Frank wil already know that Batman tanks small arms fire. He'll know that Batman is a superior, of not THE best, H2H (so avoid melee). Batman's vehicles approach the city from a particular direction. Batman is "employed" by Bruce Wayne. He'll know Batman's associates, enemies.

So how does Frank kill Batman? Wire a building with high explosives, capture one of Batman's rogues. Place him the building with a bomb strapped to him, and invite Batman to save the rogue before he blows the rogue to hell. While Bats saves the rogue, defusing the apparent visible bomb, Punisher blows up the building - killing them both.

Would Frank do this?

I am currently behind on both my new 52 bat titles and current punisher reading so I think I'll withhold my comment for now (we'll see what happens though). With that said are they only limited to what's in the work shop or do they have standard resources? Like does batman get everything in the bat cave?

@jashro44: Yeah. All resources. All of Batman's batcave stuff, all of Frank's military and superhero caches.

@dogsoldier88: I like your imagination, but they both have to fight in that environment. I would like to add that Batman has tank explosions like that and survived.

Punisher with prep in the past is extremely impressive. I'm curious as to see the different paths this prep battle could go.

I think Punisher can win, especially because with morals Batman won't go anywhere higher than incapacitation, whereas Punisher can just upright kill him with anything in his arsenal as shown above by @dogsoldier88

hmmm... id say bats 6/10 close battles though.

3 pretty simple conclusions for this as far as I am concerned

1) No prep/Equal Prep - Batman Wins.

2) Batman gets prep advantage - Batman wins.

3) Punisher gets prep advantage - Punisher wins.

Be more specific when you say superhero cache. The marvel verse is sporting some impressive tech.

I think Punisher squeaks out the thinnest of victories here. 5.5/10. Having said that, whomever wins, ain't walking away. They're bloodied and broken. Here's my reasoning...

With this: "file on the other which includes basic abilities, background, technology, rogues gallery, significant accomplishments and more" in my opinion, Punisher gains a lot more useful information than Batman.

• Batman thrives on surprise and he just lost that. Many of the opponents Batman faces have no idea about the armor, his level of technology or what Batman has accomplished. He's an urban legend to many. So right away, Punisher knows what level of weaponry he will need. He'd also know he's facing the world's greatest detective and a world class martial artist and stealth ninja. So there's zero chance of him underestimating someone he wants to kill here.
• Batman now knows he is facing a Marine turned vigilante killing-machine. I don't think that gains him as much insight as Frank just got. He knows Frank will go for kill shots, so he'd prepare for that, and he'd know not to aim for the skull on his armor of course. He'd know Frank is dangerous in hand to hand but probably feel confident that he out-skills him in this area.

Also with this: "Both are given one hour of preparation time to prepare the environment. Both will be given a workshop with all of their resources available", I believe Frank has the advantage.

• I am not sure what Batman will do with his hour. Probably setup motion detectors and cameras. Maybe some remote devices to create a diversion/distraction.
• Punisher uses the hour to get lethal. He sets traps. He sets explosives. He puts obvious and non-obvious lights in shadows (ninjas love their shadows). He knows Batman is a detective, so he'd try to bait him. Knowing that the first trail is too obvious, he'd set a second less obvious trail as well... which would also be a trap.

Lastly when the fight occurs, Punisher knows he is outclassed in hand to hand, so he'd want to keep his range. He'd have weapons capable of penetrating Batman's armor. Seeing how dodgy he can be, you know he's using explosives for area effect as well. Having said all of that, the Caped Crusader could still beat him a good number of times.

But I give Punisher the small edge due to Batman losing his surprise of "I'm bullet proof/sneaky/Bruce Lee/Sherlock Holmes".

Frank has picked up a couple of things along the way - Antman's helmet, Spidey's webshooters and some Pumpkin Bombs.

@i_like_swords: My initial thoughts are batman could have the advantage depending on what he uses. He currently has a stealth suit he designed to hide himself from superman which seems to work so far. All though he might not deem it necessary against someone like punisher. Unless Frank has access to some better tech in his new ongoing.

I mean batman is a better prepper so I'm leaning to him. He could just use his stealth suit so punisher can't see him or any of his other suits.

@jashro44: Batman could definitely win through stealth, should he choose to. Although, given the amount of traps Frank will have set up, I figure he'd be able to catch him out some of the time.

I'm trade-ordering Frank's new series. Haven't read it yet.

@retconcrisis: Thank you sir. I got caught up in my response I forgot to match it to our scenario. Basically, Punisher has no qualms with blowing up the entire building. The OP places the fight in a particular location that the Punisher gets to prep - which means explosives, explosives, explosives. If Punisher gets the villains cache he had from a few years back, Frank will have access to a lot of Marvel super-villain tech to draw upon. But I still think the remote detonates the entire building for the win.

I guess It would depend on who makes the first move if it's Batman Punisher wins & vice versa.

Glad to see some people arguing in Castle's favour.

@quickfingers26 has a very sensible analysis, so I will agree with him and give it to Frank for the slight majority.

@stormdriven:

Appreciate that, Stormdriven. I know it's a bit lengthy.

Bruce

True but the suit itself seems pretty durable. He took some hits from Wraith in it (who is a superman villain):

Gallery

Its never been tested against stabbing damage granted but considering the current bat suit can tank machine guns pretty easily I imagine that wouldn't be a problem. Maybe he could use mines but the problem with those are that batman has different scanners which seem capable of analyzing and identifying different things so he can probably detect them:

Gallery

It might not tell him theres a mine on the floor but he can figure out there is something else there that isn't part of the floor using these scanners.

@quickfingers26: No problem. And it's all good, I think it covered both characters well.

@i_like_swords: The series is sweet so far. Punisher vs Electro should be all you need to be interested

@dogsoldier88: I really see this turning on one thing.

Does Frank have adamantium rounds? If he does, he will probably win a strong majority. No amount of DC armor is protecting a human being from a high caliber round of adamantium. Frank 8/10.

If Frank does not have it, then this becomes a matter of resources. In which Bats would IMHO be able to secure the win through a much more OTT bag of tricks to draw from in an hour.

I see Bruce going with a mix of stealth and armor to get in close for permanent incap. Both will bring gear to deal with gas. Traps would be questionable for both. Castle is an expert soldier who has spent years fighting his war on crime. Batman can tell that there is a trap, but has actively chosen to walk into one on too many occasions.

It still comes down to Comic Book armor>>real world weaponry. But, Punisher has not been afraid to go ham with super science toys against super science foes. Not in his current ongoing iirc, but he definitely has in the past.

May be the only Batman fan that feels that if they wee shade universe, Punisher would kill him on principle. Not because Bruce does not kill villains and serial killers. He would kill him because he uses children as soldiers, and accepts volunteers(all Batgirls, Robins 3-5)when one dies. Some of that blood is on Bruce's hands.

Batman 8.5/10

@i_like_swords:

Let's f*cking settle it.

Lol!

when has bats ever tanked an explosion?

LoL "Knowledge is power".

Gallery

• Despite being hit by an explosive blast, he still runs right through it without being harmed then beats down on The Joker.
• Despite being within close range of it, he still detonates his utility belt that results in a huge explosive blast that destroys the reinforced water tank and still comes out of it just fine even with his suit perfectly in tact.
• Destroys laboratory while he's still inside and comes out unharmed.
• Is caught by surprise with a bomb being detonated while he's still in the building with it. Yet he walks out unfazed from the explosion although somewhat on fire.
• Withstands a bomb that detonates within point blank range resulting in him free falling from several stories high while he was still on the train. He barely manages to break his fall in time before he hits the ground yet he gets back up shortly afterwards although he's badly hurt.

@patrat18: @patrat18: a lot of those scans look like he didn't tank those explosions. he just had some comic book logic way of not actually getting the full force of them. i mean when has he ever been hit directly be a rocket launcher or something like that.

Uh no. I've clearly shown you scan of him directly inside of a building or inside of that train, hell even under water getting hit form a explosion. He's never been hit by a rocket launcher (that i know of), because he always dodges it.

@christianrapper: How in the world does Punisher shooting a building with a rocket launcher = Batman having to tank a direct hit from a rocket launcher? The building takes the direct hit. Batman has to deal with the explosion, and most importantly, the concussive force from the explosion.

The last scans show him tanking the explosion to the point where the concussive force sent him flying and crashing down into concrete stories down, and he was still able to get up, talk, and walk around. So... Patrat did his job.

EDIT: No, he kicked a hole and started to jump out, but the concussive force/explosion still hit him and chewed up his costume pretty good. He still survived both it and the fall.

Franks only hope of beating Bats is to set up an ambush & wait for Batman to make the first move.

Yeah, I caught myself up on the New 52 Detective Comics run, and yeah, I'm beginning to think that New 52 Batman is MORE powerful than Pre-52 Batman tech-wise. He's becoming Iron-Bat, which to me is addressing one of my long held gripes about how Bruce Wayne chose to use his vast money and resources to fight against crime - considering he goes up against true super powered foes in the Justice League books.

With that said, I agree that Punisher will have to use Comic Book weapons to more consistently secure wins against Batman's physics defying armor. It seems like Batman vs. Punisher is no longer a case of two street levelers fighting it out, but rather a street leveler vs. a low/mid tier tech-based superhero. Since Punisher's "power" is that he gets whatever real world weaponry the writers want him to use, I think he might still have a goods shot at getting a win using a combination of covering the room with mines like these:

All the while, the Punisher can lay into Bats with a combination of these two weapons:

@jashro44: can you comment on my thread http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/winter-soldier-vs-deadpool-1587648/ I would appreciate very much my friend

Batman is a better overall fighter

I'll check it out but for future reference you shouldn't promote your thread in other peoples thread.

@dogsoldier88: That would definitely win if he crossed over to Punisher's side of the map. There is the problem of what street level character with a fact file on a human that beat the crap out of Electro would just walk into a place he got to work on for an hour. Any fact file on either of these two will feature their most high end accomplishments. Dropping Rhino, beating Vulture, giving Wolverine problems, and literally dozens off others would convince Bruce that he was going up against someone above Green Arrow and Nightwing in overall damage potential.

This really seems close. More who would miscalculate their opponent after reading about what they can do. Batman has the means to detect most traps and hidden equipment, but Punisher would likely deduce that from the files and Frank's own experience dealing with organized crime hideouts.

This is one of the best Punisher vs Batman threads I have ever been on.

:D