Batman vs Phantom

The Phantom

The Batman

They fight eachother on the field of a great colosseum. Phantom is on his horse and he has two revolvers and a sword similar to the one he has in the video. Batman is on his motorcycle, he has his fists eighteen batarangs and 2 smoke grenades, he also has a device capable of bending gun barrels. They are both bloodlusted and want to kill eachother. It's morning and the sun is just about to rise over the horizon there is no way to escape the arena.

Who wins this fight, btw both characters are movie versions only.

Judging from the movie clips Phantom will stomp.

Based off of equipment, this is spite in Phantom's favor. Even Batman is wary of guns. IIRC, Phantom is skilled with his guns, so he could take down movie Bats pretty easy.

Far too biased IMO. You have given Batman two batarangs and given the Phantom a sword and two guns.

@ZombieBigfoot: What would make the battle more fair? Or are you saying Batman is useless without his stealth?

@Hermoor said:

@ZombieBigfoot: What would make the battle more fair? Or are you saying Batman is useless without his stealth?

You put them in a large open field. On horses. Stealth isn't an option anymore.

Personally? I'd say no weapons in an urban setting at night so Batman can use his stealth abilities. Or close together in an H2H contest. Giving Phantom two guns and a sword is spite.

@ZombieBigfoot: Putting the phantom in a urban enviroment wouldn't be fair since he is a organic fighter. Especially if it's night, then Batman's stealth is too much of a advantage. A fist fight wouldn't be interesting we want them to use their trademark weapons/tools in this battle. As far as I know Batman don't use guns unlike the phantom. I could give him more batarangs if you want but I don't think that would make much difference.

I think there is really no way to make this fight more balanced, Batman really can't fight in daylight especially not against superior fighters. He often needs to prepare for encounters as seen in the Dark knight for example. He always comes to the battle prepared or he has someone helping him. I don't think this battle is a question of a unbalanced setup as much as The Phantom simply is a better spontaneous fighter.

The Phantom wouldn't be able to inflitrate a chinese corporation and kidnap a chinese guy only batman can do that. But the batman wouldn't be able to jump into a pirate fight with only two guns disarm all pirates then defeat them all without any tools like phantom has. Only killing one pirate in the process. (Actually the pirate killed himself) I think the phantom simply is a better fighter while the batman needs preparation and information before entering a battle. That is why the joker is such a big threat to him since the joker is so unpredictable.

I give Batman 8 more batarangs and a smoke grenade. I don't think it will change the outcome though...

@Hermoor said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Putting the phantom in a urban enviroment wouldn't be fair since he is a organic fighter. Especially if it's night, then Batman's stealth is too much of a advantage. A fist fight wouldn't be interesting we want them to use their trademark weapons/tools in this battle. As far as I know Batman don't use guns unlike the phantom. I could give him more batarangs if you want but I don't think that would make much difference.

I think there is really no way to make this fight more balanced, Batman really can't fight in daylight especially not against superior fighters. He often needs to prepare for encounters as seen in the Dark knight for example. He always comes to the battle prepared or he has someone helping him. I don't think this battle is a question of a unbalanced setup as much as The Phantom simply is a better spontaneous fighter.

The Phantom wouldn't be able to inflitrate a chinese corporation and kidnap a chinese guy only phantom can do that. But the phantom wouldn't be able to jump into a pirate fight with only two guns disarm all pirates then defeat them all without any tools like batman has. Only killing one pirate in the process...I think the phantom simply is a better fighter while the phantom needs preparation and information before entering a battle. That is why the joker is such a big threat to him since the joker is so unpredictable.

I give Batman 8 more batarangs and a smoke grenade. I don't think it will change the outcome though...Phantom is a better fighter at the end of the day.

No he doesn't use guns, but he also has more then two batarangs, and more then just batarangs in his utility belt. But, since Batman is bloodlusted and wants to kill him, then why wouldn't he use guns? You're giving Batman such limited weaponry, its completely out of Batman's character whether he is prepared for a fight or not. But then again, its out of Batman's character to be bloodlusted and is aiming to kill someone.

@Hermoor said:

@ZombieBigfoot: Putting the phantom in a urban enviroment wouldn't be fair since he is a organic fighter. Especially if it's night, then Batman's stealth is too much of a advantage. A fist fight wouldn't be interesting we want them to use their trademark weapons/tools in this battle. As far as I know Batman don't use guns unlike the phantom. I could give him more batarangs if you want but I don't think that would make much difference.

I think there is really no way to make this fight more balanced, Batman really can't fight in daylight especially not against superior fighters. He often needs to prepare for encounters as seen in the Dark knight for example. He always comes to the battle prepared or he has someone helping him. I don't think this battle is a question of a unbalanced setup as much as The Phantom simply is a better spontaneous fighter.

The Phantom wouldn't be able to inflitrate a chinese corporation and kidnap a chinese guy only batman can do that. But the batman wouldn't be able to jump into a pirate fight with only two guns disarm all pirates then defeat them all without any tools like phantom has. Only killing one pirate in the process...I think the phantom simply is a better fighter while the phantom needs preparation and information before entering a battle. That is why the joker is such a big threat to him since the joker is so unpredictable.

I give Batman 8 more batarangs and a smoke grenade. I don't think it will change the outcome though...Phantom is a better fighter at the end of the day.

The problem is the weapons, it is. You're giving Phantom two fire-arms and a sword. Signature weapons or no, that's an unfair advantage. That's not balanced by far. And movie Batman could very well pull off the scenario you mentioned in Phantom's favor, even without prep. Wouldn't be as easy, because in the scenario in Phantom's video, he uses guns to incapacitate the first handful of pirates. Batman would do the same with batarangs, or use a smoke bomb and take them down while they were blinded using H2H. Movie Bats was no pushover, he just didn't show as much skill as his comics counterpart(doesn't mean he's not skilled, just that comics Batman has some insanely good high showings). So movie Bats very much has the potential to be a spontaneous fighter, not on Phantom's level because of his no-kill rule, but he has the potential. And an H2H fight, while not involving their signature weapons, would be much more fair.

@ZombieBigfoot: The problem is the weapons, it is. You're giving Phantom two fire-arms and a sword.

If you want me to remove the phantom's "tools". Then I have to remove Batman's suit and his batarangs and utility belt too. How much of a interesting fight would that be? We are being realistic here, putting hero against hero making it possible for them to use all of their tools in battle. The guns and the sword is the phantom's tools in battle just like Batman has his suit.

And movie Batman could very well pull off the scenario you mentioned in Phantom's favor

I doubt it, not only is Batman wearing a heavy armored suit that makes him far less agile than the phantom that wears a ninja like spandex suit. he also as seen in the movie clip above has problem turning his neck which would make a confrontation with multiple opponents at once a problem. We have seen in the movie how Batman has struggled against many opponents at once like when he fought that mob in the first movie or when he fought those ninjas in Wayne manor and was punches uncouncious. He would have trouble with 10 pirates at once.

Remember in the first movie when he attacked those drug dealers? He took them one by one, he wouldn't be able to charge into them and fight them all at once like the phantom did in the clip above. Batman is a ninja that needs preparation and stealth, he is not a fighter or a warrior like Phantom.

So movie Bats very much has the potential to be a spontaneous fighter, not on Phantom's level because of his no-kill rule

If you watch the phantom clip above, notice how he disarms the pirates with his guns. Even when he fights the pirate leader he had more than one chance to kill him but he wouldn't. He also is unwilling to kill, in the clip phantom fought without wanting to kill. Imagine if he wanted to kill someone, all pirates would be dead in seconds not only by him using his guns but by sword fighting as well.

Now you said in the quote above that batman isn't on phantoms level...well boo hoo, phantom also has a no kill rule. So you mean to say that Phantom is a superior fighter than Batman?

@HBKTimHBK: But, since Batman is bloodlusted and wants to kill him, then why wouldn't he use guns?

Maybe because he has no guns? I have never seen Batman have or use guns. That would be like giving the Phantom a batman batarang...which doesn't make sense. We can't give them tools that they don't have.

But then again, its out of Batman's character to be bloodlusted and is aiming to kill someone.

That is out of the Phantom's character too...which means it's more than balanced.

Phantom simply is a better warrior while Batman is more of a detective and Ninja. Let's be realistic for a moment, Batman would be nothing without his suit and his gadgets. He needs preparation before entering a battle.

@Hermoor: He was shooting at pirates, Batman would never even consider it while he is in character and has been Batman for quite some time. And his training would make him a formidable opponent, and plus his intelligence as well. And since they both seem to be ready since Batman would rarely under quick instinct hop up on a horse, especially when he's bloodlusted, so I would not be surprised that if his goal was to kill him, I wouldn't hold guns above Batman when he's angry, in Batman Begins he was about to shoot Joe Chill before that Falcone henchgirl came in and stole his opportunity.

@Hermoor:

Got news for you mate, in comics before the "Bat god" revamp Batman barely used gadgets from his utility belt in combat and his costume was not armored. he still kicked plenty of @$$. In those years was when he fought Bronze tiger a few times to a standstill (and yes their actual battles were standstills, contrary to popular belief I don't count someone else shooting Batman with a poison dart while he's evenly matched with Batman - who was also fighting others, a win for Bronze Tiger) and many other skilled opponents.

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

You're Spite agqinst Batman is getting ridiculous.

@beatboks1 said:

@Hermoor:

Got news for you mate, in comics before the "Bat god" revamp Batman barely used gadgets from his utility belt in combat and his costume was not armored. he still kicked plenty of @$$. In those years was when he fought Bronze tiger a few times to a standstill (and yes their actual battles were standstills, contrary to popular belief I don't count someone else shooting Batman with a poison dart while he's evenly matched with Batman - who was also fighting others, a win for Bronze Tiger) and many other skilled opponents.

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

@HBKTimHBK: He was shooting at pirates, Batman would never even consider it while he is in character.

Actually he wasn't shooting at pirates he was disarming them so he could knock them out. Batman wouldn't shoot at someone because he hasn't got the skills necessary to disarm 5 or 6 pirates with two guns AT THE SAME TIME. If he could disarm people with guns he would do it, but he can't.

And his training would make him a formidable opponent, and plus his intelligence as well.

Batman's training from the movie seems to consist of training as a ninja for a few years. The Phantom has grown up in the jungle, I happen to know that in that phantom movie the clip above is from. A deleted scene in that movie was of him fighting a lion...the phantom's training has been intense since early childhood unlike bruce wayne which in the movie...was playing with a little girl and fell into a well crying...

The Phantom's intelligence is probably....superior. Or at least on the same level as Batman. I can provide your with my source if you want, I can't recall what his intelligence feats are but I know they are impressive even from the movie which is suprisingly accurate to the comic book version of him.

Got news for you mate, in comics before the "Bat god" revamp Batman barely used gadgets from his utility belt in combat and his costume was not armored.

Well as said in op, these are the realistic movie versions of the heroes.

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

But not in the movies and to be more specific, begins and dark knight.

You're Spite agqinst Batman is getting ridiculous.

Tell me what to give Batman then, what does he have in his utility belt that would be useful againt the phantom? I'm basing the original post on the movie versions of the characters and what tools they use to fight villains. If you are saying this battle is unfair, then you are saying Phantom is a better fighter...but tell me what he has in his belt that could be helpful and I could try make the battle even more balanced.

@Hermoor said:

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

But not in the movies and to be more specific, begins and dark knight.

He almost killed Joe Chill in Batman Begins.

@HBKTimHBK: Thanks I was trying to find some images to show, couldn't for him with the gun though.

Gallery

He doesn't use prep or gadgets in any of these these (except a rope)

@Hermoor said:

vie which is suprisingly accurate to the comic book version of him.

Got news for you mate, in comics before the "Bat god" revamp Batman barely used gadgets from his utility belt in combat and his costume was not armored.

Well as said in op, these are the realistic movie versions of the heroes.

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

But not in the movies and to be more specific, begins and dark knight.

And there in lies the problem. The movie batman is vastly different from the comic Batman where the movie Phantom isn't that great a difference (albeit a lot cornyer). You've stacked the deck as it were by deliberately choosing a weaker version of Batman to paint the Phantom better. Oh and in the movies batman does use weapons other than just batarangs and smoke bombs, another stacking.

@Hermoor said:

@ZombieBigfoot: The problem is the weapons, it is. You're giving Phantom two fire-arms and a sword.

If you want me to remove the phantom's "tools". Then I have to remove Batman's suit and his batarangs and utility belt too. How much of a interesting fight would that be? We are being realistic here, putting hero against hero making it possible for them to use all of their tools in battle. The guns and the sword is the phantom's tools in battle just like Batman has his suit.

Batman is not solely reliant on his tools/suit. You're forgetting his H2H skills he's displayed entirely, which is why twice now, I've suggested a pure H2H fight. It's much fairer, not as 'interesting' as you complain about, but much fairer. Fairness is in the battle thread rules, and is mandatory, while making a thread 'interesting', is optional. Either that, or close the distance between the two so that Phantom doesn't have such an easy shot from a distance.

@Hermoor said:

And movie Batman could very well pull off the scenario you mentioned in Phantom's favor

I doubt it, not only is Batman wearing a heavy armored suit that makes him far less agile than the phantom that wears a ninja like spandex suit. he also as seen in the movie clip above has problem turning his neck which would make a confrontation with multiple opponents at once a problem. We have seen in the movie how Batman has struggled against many opponents at once like when he fought that mob in the first movie or when he fought those ninjas in Wayne manor and was punches uncouncious. He would have trouble with 10 pirates at once.

Remember in the first movie when he attacked those drug dealers? He took them one by one, he wouldn't be able to charge into them and fight them all at once like the phantom did in the clip above. Batman is a ninja that needs preparation and stealth, he is not a fighter or a warrior like Phantom.

Batman is very much a warrior, and that fight you mentioned against the thugs in the warehouse was one of his earlier ones. The clip you provided, in fact, is very much lacking stealth. He takes the thugs head-on and puts his life in harm's way when he jumps onto the van and tries to hold on. And his suit is far from being not agile. In fact, it was designed with mobility and protection in mind. And the 'ninjas' in the mansion were Ra's Al Ghul's League of Assassins, who are very skilled. In the first film, Batman was not as experienced as he was in the next film, because he hadn't been Batman as long. By the end of the second movie, he's displayed more experience.

@Hermoor said:

So movie Bats very much has the potential to be a spontaneous fighter, not on Phantom's level because of his no-kill rule

If you watch the phantom clip above, notice how he disarms the pirates with his guns. Even when he fights the pirate leader he had more than one chance to kill him but he wouldn't. He also is unwilling to kill, in the clip phantom fought without wanting to kill. Imagine if he wanted to kill someone, all pirates would be dead in seconds not only by him using his guns but by sword fighting as well.

Now you said in the quote above that batman isn't on phantoms level...well boo hoo, phantom also has a no kill rule. So you mean to say that Phantom is a superior fighter than Batman?

He's still using the guns for the first 3-4 pirates. If you gave Batman(who's said to have firearms training of some sort) guns with mercy bullets, he would do the same, if not outperform him. Using batarangs takes more skill then a gun does, and IIRC, Batman has disarmed people before with batarangs. So doing so with a gun would be easier for him. And if Batman aimed to kill, the same result would come out. He's capable of using lethal force. And when I said 'not on Phantom's level', I meant in the spontaneous sense. I admit stealth and brains is a component to his fighting style, but he's capable of fighting without prep.

So as it stands, regardless of combatant skill, this is a spite thread, and is being flagged as such.

Edit:

@beatboks1 said:

@Hermoor said:

vie which is suprisingly accurate to the comic book version of him.

Got news for you mate, in comics before the "Bat god" revamp Batman barely used gadgets from his utility belt in combat and his costume was not armored.

Well as said in op, these are the realistic movie versions of the heroes.

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

But not in the movies and to be more specific, begins and dark knight.

And there in lies the problem. The movie batman is vastly different from the comic Batman where the movie Phantom isn't that great a difference (albeit a lot cornyer). You've stacked the deck as it were by deliberately choosing a weaker version of Batman to paint the Phantom better. Oh and in the movies batman does use weapons other than just batarangs and smoke bombs, another stacking.

This too. Movie versions of comic characters are generally weaker then their source material, so for the reason mentioned, you're giving one character better equipment, and putting him up against a weaker-then-is-standard version of a character. This makes it spite.

@beatboks1 said:

@HBKTimHBK: Thanks I was trying to find some images to show, couldn't for him with the gun though.

Gallery

He doesn't use prep or gadgets in any of these these (except a rope)

No problem! :)

why are all of hermoor's battles completely ridiculous???

@Nearl said:

why are all of hermoor's battles completely ridiculous???

Don't provoke him..

What is an "organic fighter"? At least one of those words are being used incorrectly =x

@ZombieBigfoot: You're forgetting his H2H skills he's displayed

H2H? I don't know what that means...

Fairness is in the battle thread rules, and is mandatory, while making a thread 'interesting', is optional.

Oh so making a thread like Superman vs Silver Surfer isn't fair and therefore should be flagged as spite. Listen buddy, I'm putting hero vs hero letting them use all their tools in combat. If you are saying this is spite you are simply saying Phantom would win. If you know a way to make the battle more fair let me know. So far you haven't suggested anything that would make the battle more fair, which leads me to believe the only reason you are flagging my thread is because you are butthurt that phantom would defeat batman IF batman has no preparation.

And his suit is far from being not agile.

He had a suprisingly difficult time standing up after jumping off that van. he doesn't seem to be very agile to me comparing him to how phantom jumps around in the other movie clip.

Batman was not as experienced as he was in the next film, because he hadn't been Batman as long.

So? should I take into consideration that he just started being batman in the first movie? I will judge him over his feats in the movies if that is a problem...I'm not sure what I'm going to judge him by?

If you gave Batman(who's said to have firearms training of some sort)

Not in the movie...

guns with mercy bullets, he would do the same, if not outperform him.

How could he outperform the phantom if he has no firearms training in the movie?

Using batarangs takes more skill then a gun does

Sure, but the phantom isn't exactly using the guns in the clips as a normal police for example would be using them. He crosses his arms and shoots simontaneously bullets and disarms the pirates who are holding swords without missing or accidentaly shooting someone. THAT requires more skill than throwing one batarang at someone with a gun.

Batman has disarmed people before with batarangs. So doing so with a gun would be easier for him.

There is a big difference between disarming someone with ONE GUN and disarming multiple people at once using two guns crossing your arms. BIG DIFFERENCE. Also I'm not sure if Batman would be able to disarm someone with a gun since he has no gun training...by your logic phantom would be able to pick up batarangs and easily disarm people with them without any training. Doesn't make much sense....

I admit stealth and brains is a component to his fighting style, but he's capable of fighting without prep.

Of course but does his fighting skill match the phantom's?

So as it stands, regardless of combatant skill, this is a spite thread, and is being flagged as such.

Once again tell me how to balance it WITHOUT taking away the tools of the heroes. I don't want to see a batman without a suit against a phantom without his guns. That would be like putting Superman without his strength against Silver Surfer without his power cosmic, not only would it be boring it would taking away all of the heroes powers or in batman's and phantom's case...TOOLS. The powers of batman and phantom are their tools, taking away them would be reducing the battle to a pointless fist fight...in which btw Phantom would dominate.

you're giving one character better equipment, and putting him up against a weaker-then-is-standard version of a character. This makes it spite.

I say the Batman movie version is a lot more realistic and standard than the batman of the comics that kicks down trees...putting the unrealistic comic version up against movie version phantom would be spite too. This battle is far more balanced than a comic batman vs movie phantom.

If it's not as balanced as it could possibly be right now, then tell me what rules to change?

@Hermoor said:

Fairness is in the battle thread rules, and is mandatory, while making a thread 'interesting', is optional.

Oh so making a thread like Superman vs Silver Surfer isn't fair and therefore should be flagged as spite. Listen buddy, I'm putting hero vs hero letting them use all their tools in combat. If you are saying this is spite you are simply saying Phantom would win. If you know a way to make the battle more fair let me know. So far you haven't suggested anything that would make the battle more fair, which leads me to believe the only reason you are flagging my thread is because you are butthurt that phantom would defeat batman IF batman has no preparation.

Yes, actually it should be flagged as spite. This is spite because your taking away all of the things that make Batman really Batman and giving all of the major advantages to this Phantom..person. And Batman with no preparation would have much more tools then what your giving him right now.

@Jezer said:

What is an "organic fighter"? At least one of those words are being used incorrectly =x

It's someone who adapts to an organic enviroment. Phantom is much more like Tarzan than Batman. Putting Tarzan in a city would be a huge disadvantage...

@HBKTimHBK said:

Yes, actually it should be flagged as spite. This is spite because your taking away all of the things that make Batman really Batman and giving all of the major advantages to this Phantom..person. And Batman with no preparation would have much more tools then what your giving him right now.

What tools?

@Hermoor said:

@ZombieBigfoot: You're forgetting his H2H skills he's displayed

H2H? I don't know what that means...

H2H - Hand-to-Hand. Unarmed combat using no weapons whatsoever, only the martial arts the character, or characters, know.

Oh so making a thread like Superman vs Silver Surfer isn't fair and therefore should be flagged as spite. Listen buddy, I'm putting hero vs hero letting them use all their tools in combat. If you are saying this is spite you are simply saying Phantom would win. If you know a way to make the battle more fair let me know. So far you haven't suggested anything that would make the battle more fair, which leads me to believe the only reason you are flagging my thread is because you are butthurt that phantom would defeat batman IF batman has no preparation.

No, I'm flagging your thread because it is a spite thread. And I have. Hand-to-Hand fighting is fair, as Phantom would not have a clearly MASSIVE advantage over Batman. Also, spite means you are giving one character a massively unfair advantage, in example, this thread. Drop the attitude, as I am being civil about this. If anything, you're the butthurt one, and are being a borderline troll. I admit that Batman loses at times, but he's losing here because of the equipment you give Phantom, and because it's a weaker version. I admit to assuming that because it was implied somewhere, he had the training to fire a gun, and I apologize for that and that alone.

He had a suprisingly difficult time standing up after jumping off that van. he doesn't seem to be very agile to me comparing him to how phantom jumps around in the other movie clip.

Any baseline human would have trouble standing up after falling two stories onto a moving van made of metal, reinforced glass, and plastic parts.

Once again tell me how to balance it WITHOUT taking away the tools of the heroes. I don't want to see a batman without a suit against a phantom without his guns. That would be like putting Superman without his strength against Silver Surfer without his power cosmic, not only would it be boring it would taking away all of the heroes powers or in batman's and phantom's case...TOOLS. The powers of batman and phantom are their tools, taking away them would be reducing the battle to a pointless fist fight...in which btw Phantom would dominate.

Read above. I'm not repeating myself. Also, 'fist-fights' are usually more interesting and show more skill then fights such as this.

I say the Batman movie version is a lot more realistic and standard than the batman of the comics that kicks down trees...putting the unrealistic comic version up against movie version phantom would be spite too. This battle is far more balanced than a comic batman vs movie phantom.

As I've said in your battle threads before, why are you whining about realism on acomic book forum? Realism usually goes out the window in this outlet of media. Go debate on killermovies.com or something like that if you want 'realism'. This thread carries no semblance of balance, don't claim it.

You're either a troll, ignorant, stupid, or hate comics. Go elsewhere if you want realism and don't like the lack of it in comics. This is COMICvine. A site about comics. Complaining about how there is no realism in comics is pointless here, as most of us will ignore you, or like myself, tell you why you are wrong. I do not regret flagging you, and if you are a troll, I am done feeding you. Good day to you.

@Hermoor said:

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Hermoor said:

Fairness is in the battle thread rules, and is mandatory, while making a thread 'interesting', is optional.

Oh so making a thread like Superman vs Silver Surfer isn't fair and therefore should be flagged as spite. Listen buddy, I'm putting hero vs hero letting them use all their tools in combat. If you are saying this is spite you are simply saying Phantom would win. If you know a way to make the battle more fair let me know. So far you haven't suggested anything that would make the battle more fair, which leads me to believe the only reason you are flagging my thread is because you are butthurt that phantom would defeat batman IF batman has no preparation.

Yes, actually it should be flagged as spite. This is spite because your taking away all of the things that make Batman really Batman and giving all of the major advantages to this Phantom..person. And Batman with no preparation would have much more tools then what your giving him right now.

What tools?

More batarangs, more smoke pellets, explosive devices which can also be shot from somewhat of a sniper rifle, a device in Batman's suit that could allow the bending of a barrel of a gun. And that's just in the Christopher Nolan movies where those appear, and the Dark Knight Rises still needs to come out. (Anne Hathaway in skin tight leather...so excited)

@ZombieBigfoot: H2H - Hand-to-Hand. Unarmed combat using no weapons whatsoever, only the martial arts the character, or characters, know.

I would have no problem with that actually...except that would be killing this thread. Since I right away can say that judging from the movies phantom would stomp Batman in hand to hand combat.

No, I'm flagging your thread because it is a spite thread.

The only reason you are flagging this thread is because you can't accept that batman will lose under these conditions, don't worry I will change the rules a bit to make it more fair. Since I'm now informed on what more tools Batman has in his belt.

Any baseline human would have trouble standing up after falling two stories onto a moving van made of metal, reinforced glass, and plastic parts.

I was not talking about that, i was talking about when he jumped off the van into the wall...he didn't look very agile when he stood up after that, neither when he walked away towards the edge. In fact he looks very stiff even while he is fighting at the start, he doesn't look very agily to me.

As I've said in your battle threads before, why are you whining about realism on acomic book forum? Realism usually goes out the window in this outlet of media. Go debate on killermovies.com or something like that if you want 'realism'. This thread carries no semblance of balance, don't claim it.
You're either a troll, ignorant, stupid, or hate comics. Go elsewhere if you want realism and don't like the lack of it in comics.

Why I'm arguing about realism? Maybe because as stated in the op, this battle is movie versions only you should respect that and not whine about how it's TOO realistic for your taste...geez...

More batarangs, more smoke pellets, explosive devices which can also be shot from somewhat of a sniper rifle, a device in Batman's suit that could allow the bending of a barrel of a gun.

Ok he will be given 20 batarangs, that should be more batarangs than Phantom has bullets. 2 smoke pellets and the device he uses to bend the gun barrel. I'l also switch his horse with his motorcycle. Now you can't whine about it being unfair, edited first post.

@Hermoor: I don't care about realism, I care about fairness. I'm done debating with you. You fail to listen to criticisms without either twisting my words, or making up gibberish to defend yourself. It's gotten to the point where I can't even debate who would win because you very clearly do not know how to debate in a civil manner. Again, good day/night. I am done.

@ZombieBigfoot: You take up almost two pages whining about how the battle is unfair and too realistic. Then when i change the rules to make the battle 100% balanced you say you are done debating? Debating really, you haven't been debating you have just argued that the battle is unfair. I have been much more civil than you have, This is what you said, you call that civil?

You're either a troll, ignorant, stupid, or hate comics. Go elsewhere if you want realism. complaining about how there is no realism in comics is pointless here, as most of us will ignore you, or like myself, tell you why you are wrong. I do not regret flagging you, and if you are a troll, I am done feeding you. Good day to you.

Not only do you resort to name calling by calling me troll ignorant and stupid. You also ended your little rant by saying "good day to you" in a very sarcastic manner. You are the only uncivil one here.

@HBKTimHBK said:

@Hermoor said:

Oh and he originally did carry a gun, in fact in his original GA stories he killed.

But not in the movies and to be more specific, begins and dark knight.

He almost killed Joe Chill in Batman Begins.

He killed Joe in the comics,yes modern one's.Not directly but by forcing him to commit suicide intentionally.

I think I agree with Hermoor, Phantom is judging from the video a better fighter or one could say warrior, while batman needs preparation and cover in order to take people out. I think a good description would be:

• Phantom - Samurai
• Batman - Ninja

A samurai is stronger at fighting face to face and needs little preparation to kill someone. Batman isn't much without his preparation and stealth.

Batman isn't much without prep or stealth... smh.

@HulkGod1994 said:

I think I agree with Hermoor, Phantom is judging from the video a better fighter or one could say warrior, while batman needs preparation and cover in order to take people out. I think a good description would be:

• Phantom - Samurai
• Batman - Ninja

A samurai is stronger at fighting face to face and needs little preparation to kill someone. Batman isn't much without his preparation and stealth.

I hope you're only referring to the movie,because comic Batman has mastered all fighting styles.

@entropy_aegis: I'm not sure about who is stronger in the comics since I haven't read the phantom, but if the phantom is half as strong as he appears in the movie in the comic book. I'm sure he wouldn't have much problem with Batman comic version either. I mean fighting lions and disarming 20 bad guys with two guns at once is a bit greater than what Batman does in the comics. Thing with Batman is he always need either a lot of technical stuff like wings to fly, graphooks and a lot of preparation in order to take on his foes.

On the raw power meter and combat strength he isn't as strong as half of the superheroes out there. I think phantom would actually have more than a chance against the batman comic hero, but that is just me...I'm not biased towards any of them I just think the evidence is pointing towards that being the case.

@Hermoor said:

@ZombieBigfoot: H2H - Hand-to-Hand. Unarmed combat using no weapons whatsoever, only the martial arts the character, or characters, know.

1.I would have no problem with that actually...except that would be killing this thread. Since I right away can say that judging from the movies phantom would stomp Batman in hand to hand combat.

No, I'm flagging your thread because it is a spite thread.

2.The only reason you are flagging this thread is because you can't accept that batman will lose under these conditions, don't worry I will change the rules a bit to make it more fair. Since I'm now informed on what more tools Batman has in his belt.

Any baseline human would have trouble standing up after falling two stories onto a moving van made of metal, reinforced glass, and plastic parts.

3.I was not talking about that, i was talking about when he jumped off the van into the wall...he didn't look very agile when he stood up after that, neither when he walked away towards the edge. In fact he looks very stiff even while he is fighting at the start, he doesn't look very agily to me.

As I've said in your battle threads before, why are you whining about realism on acomic book forum? Realism usually goes out the window in this outlet of media. Go debate on killermovies.com or something like that if you want 'realism'. This thread carries no semblance of balance, don't claim it.
You're either a troll, ignorant, stupid, or hate comics. Go elsewhere if you want realism and don't like the lack of it in comics.

4.Why I'm arguing about realism? Maybe because as stated in the op, this battle is movie versions only you should respect that and not whine about how it's TOO realistic for your taste...geez...

More batarangs, more smoke pellets, explosive devices which can also be shot from somewhat of a sniper rifle, a device in Batman's suit that could allow the bending of a barrel of a gun.

5.Ok he will be given 20 batarangs, that should be more batarangs than Phantom has bullets. 2 smoke pellets and the device he uses to bend the gun barrel. I'l also switch his horse with his motorcycle. Now you can't whine about it being unfair, edited first post.

I should have actually watched the clips you loaded instead of just remembering the movies. Frankly I've over estimated the Phantom in this battle.

1. Based on the clips you've uploaded Phantom would get crushed in a H2H fight between these two. In the clip Phantom shows no form what soever, a headbut, a kick or two and some simple boxing punches. Batman on the other hand shows definite blocks and deflections consistent with Aikido or Hapkido. Between the two it is Batman who shows the greater H2H skill by quite a ways.

2. Having actually watched the clips now and considering the armor of the movie Bat costume (much more so than in comics), I'd actually say Batman takes it pretty easily even with only 2 batarags. especially with smoke pellets. Still interesting that you exclude things like the grappling gun shown in the clip.

3. Did you even watch these clips. he didn't jump from the van. The device he was using to cut through the van (another weapon he had you conveniently leave out) was stuck in the van. He was trying to get it loose before they drove him into the wall, and just did in time to fall off the van before he hit. He's just pulled himself free and fallen back, subsequently hit a cement pylon with the force his mass would have with the impulse of moving at 30MPH like the van. Of course he struggles to move he'd effectively just been hit with a truck.

4. especially since the realism of Phantoms fight was so pathetic. I don't know why I ever thought the movie version was so close to the comics version. the comic Phantom would have never been disarmed of his sword so easily ( a weapon he by the way doesn't carry in the movie he picks up for that fight only)

5. No need with just two batarangs the smoke pellets and let him keep the horse, the greater actual style he shows in H2H and the damage he's shown to take gives him an easy victory. Should have made it comic versions Phantom would have won close to an even amount then.

@entropy_aegis: Would like to inform you that the comic book version of phantom has been training as a samurai by actual samurais. I think it was the phantom that lived during the 18th century, he had japanese samurais visiting his land. They taught him how to disable full grown tigers with one punch. These techniques have been carried down through the generation to the current phantom.

@beatboks1: Based on the clips you've uploaded Phantom would get crushed in a H2H fight between these two.

What? Did I miss something...what do you call the fight that he had with the pirate in the middle of the clip. Where he deflected hits from his sword with a golden skull. Maybe unlike the Batman he didn't have to block or deflect punches? In fact if you look at the clip again, he isn't blocking but lowering his head. That proves two things:

1. That he is more agily, he is actually jumping around and rolling around on that canon in mid fight.
2. That he is faster, Batman wouldn't be able to lower his head from a punch or a sword, he is too stiff for that due to his heavy armored suit.

I'd actually say Batman takes it pretty easily even with only 2 batarags.

What? With two batarangs and without his motorcycle it would be a much harder fight. Batman isn't bullet proof, and phantom's aim is pretty damn good. His motorcycle is needed in order for Batman to avoid the first bullets that are shot at him.

Still interesting that you exclude things like the grappling gun shown in the clip.

I'm not sure what he is going to use that for, they are on a gladiator arena a large flat field. There is no way to escape the arena, which is the only thing he would be able to use the grap hook for. Are you implying Batman needs to escape the arena in order to have a chance?

Did you even watch these clips. he didn't jump from the van.

I saw it, he would if he could but he instead was stuck due to his own clumsiness and was punched into a wall by the slow moving van.

The device he was using to cut through the van (another weapon he had you conveniently leave out)

And what would he do with that? Try to rip phantom in two parts? Lol you are hilarious.

Of course he struggles to move he'd effectively just been hit with a truck.

Actually the clip shows him jumping off the triuck before impact which points towards him not going 30 mph into the wall. He also was able to turn his back to it...it would be more like a bump in the back then falling off a bike with support wheels like littke kids do. It's not even that bad since he is armored in a bullet proof west and knee pads. He was protected and the entire thing would realistically feel more like being thrown to the ground in a jiujitsu dojo in a training session.

especially since the realism of Phantoms fight was so pathetic. I don't know why I ever thought the movie version was so close to the comics version. the comic Phantom would have never been disarmed of his sword so easily

True, comic version of phantom is a much bettter sword fighter than what is shown in the movie. But you have to keep in mind he didn't want to kill the pirate leader or any of the pirates. One could imagine that he willingly disarmed himself in order for the pirate leader to get the illusion of having won and then he jumped out over the water in order to get rid of the pirate leader without actually killing him.

The phantom would rather die than kill a enemy. So even if he is disarmed by the pirate leader it's not really that much different than what would happen in the comic book and therefore it's realistic and quite truthfull to the comic books. In fact most battles in the comic books ends with the villain either killing themself running away or being knocked out...or even joining phantom. So I really don't get what you are saying...you are saying that the phantom fight wasn't truthful to the phantom character and that he really is much stronger?

No need with just two batarangs the smoke pellets and let him keep the horse, the greater actual style he shows in H2H and the damage he's shown to take gives him an easy victory.

That is just false, phantoms H2H combat is much more impressive. He knocks each pirate out with one punch and he instead of blocking the swords with his arms lower his head. He dodges them, let me ask you would Batman be able to dodge the hits from the people he is fighting in the movie clip? I don't think I have ever seen Batman dodge anything, he is too slow for that and his agility isn't fast enough.

Also I really don't get how you all of a sudden stopped whining about how the battle was unfair? Didn't you say a few posts ago that Phantom would head shot Batman in the first seconds iif Batman was on a hors? I say it's more fair giving Batman a huge tanky missile shooting motorcycle, because let's face it. Without his money and his tools he wouldn't be much of a fighter or anyone that could be roaming the nights as a ninja bat.

Without his suit and gadgets, wayne is like a SWAT officer...

Batman wins, his armour would stop the bullets and he would break the phamtom's sword like he did to Ra's at the end of begins, and judging from the video of the phantom i just saw batman is better at h2h.

@Relentless: Actually while his armor would be able to stop the bullets his teeth would not. The accuracy of the phantom's trigger fingers is precise as shown in the video. He would have little trouble shooting batman in the mouth. About his sword sure it's even very likely that his sword will break due to Batman's gloves. But once again Batman isn't worse at H2H combat. This is far from all of the clips in the movie that he is fighting in. He is even shown to be fighting a lion in the movie, although the scene was cut for some reason.

Here take a look at these clips for more of his fighting inside the movie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4vA-VLX888&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u2N7E4s_1dY#t=7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u876wC20FLg&feature=related

The first clip once again show that his skill with his guns are superb. The second clip shows his raw power, he is launching a submarine to help the women escape the island while fighting. Everything he does is planned, then he easily defeates the bad guy and reclaims his fathers belt. In the last clip he shows some of his samurai moves. Notice that he never blocks a punch, he is like Bruce lee...he is too fast for the opponents and knocks them out before they punch him.

He is a beast, there are more clips around youtube but I think this will do for now, they more than prove that Phantom is a better H2H fighter. If you want more proof of his intelligence and his fightin abilities let me know. Ask and I shall provide, Batman is a slow moving tank that needs to block each hit. He can't dodge anything he is too slow and therefore won't be able to avoid Phantom's killer punches or his guns. Even with his motorcycle Batman has little chance of sucess against the GHOST WHO WALKS.

Ducking punches and sword swings isn't skill its bad fight cordinating.The fights look like the same people that planned the lost boys fight at the end of Hook made this, so the film version of the Phantom has about as much skill as the lost boys.

@hyiena: Ducking punches and sword swings isn't skill its bad fight cordinating.

Please say that to a shaolin monk, Batman is the muhay tai fighter slow moving and he only blocks and throws weak punches over and over again. Phantom is the guy that moves around the battlefield, uses the enviroment to his advantage and instead of blocking attacks he knocks the enemy out before they get a chance to hit him or in the case of swords he lowers his head. The clips support Phantom being:

• Stronger
• Faster
• More agile

Than Batman, however he isn't as protected as the batman that is covered in a thick bullet proof suit. Which means the punches Batman throws at him will hurt more. But at the end of the day I think Phantom's fast moves and superior fighting style will knock the bat out of the hat.

Ok intro me to one of the shaolin monks you know.He fights the same as Indiana Jones does in film (aren't we using film versions) are you really comparing that to a shoalin monk.

the Phantom wins, longer and more effective training, also has guns

Yes Phantom would win because all he has to do is shoot him in the head I just dont like the argument he is better skilled in hand to hand because the fights in the phantom look so unrealistic he looks like he has Mr. X powersetw hile in the Batman film they are more realistic attacks so they don't look so fantastic.And why put down muy thai have you seen Tony Jaa he is anything but slow

.

@hyiena: You said ducking punches and sword swings isn't skill. That is false and that is all I'm saying. Any shaolin monk worth of the name would disagree with you on that. And Indiana jones is far more clumsy than phantom is in this clip. His punches might look like indiana jones punches but his movement around the battlefield and his kicks etc are not. But knocking someone out with one punch once again shows that he is stronger. He got mike tyson like power in those fists. Batman has padded gloves and still has to punch his opponents several times in order for them to fall on the ground. He also seems to be slower and less fast and agile compared to the phantom. Phantom seems to be the better H2H fighter, but his suit is a huge advantage to him not to mention his smoke bombs and hiss missile armed motorcycle which makes this fight a hard one.

In fist combat alone Phantom rules, but Batman has so many tools that could help him that this could be a close fight. I think however his motorcycle won't be that big of a advantage mainly because he can only fire straight forward. All Phantom would have to do on his more agile horse would be to ride parallel to him shoot at his tires and Batman's Bike is down. After this I imagine Batman would hide behind the bike avoiding the gun fire. Then he would probably throw a smoke bomb and hide within the cloud throwing batarangs at the horse making it fall as well. After this Batman would grab his sword since he has no more bullets. He would wait outside the smoky area...Batman would jump out of the smoke and wrestle Phantom to the ground. While he is on the ground he will try to cut batman with his sharp gloves. Phantom however is stronger and has been wrestling with lions. He will overwhelm Batman then do one of the following things:

• Knock him out
• Pick up his sword and execute him
• Or give batman another chance to stand up and keep fighting.

If he chooses the third alternative Batman will go against him in hand to hand combat. In which case Phantom due to his superior speed and agility will knock Batman to the ground. I have btw never seen Batman kick someone in the movie, which leads me to believe he can't...which means Phantom would have a range advantage. I'm sorry but everything points towards Phantom completely slaughtering Batman.

@Hermoor said:

@hyiena: You said ducking punches and sword swings isn't skill. That is false and that is all I'm saying. Any shaolin monk worth of the name would disagree with you on that. And Indiana jones is far more clumsy than phantom is in this clip. His punches might look like indiana jones punches but his movement around the battlefield and his kicks etc are not. But knocking someone out with one punch once again shows that he is stronger. He got mike tyson like power in those fists. Batman has padded gloves and still has to punch his opponents several times in order for them to fall on the ground. He also seems to be slower and less fast and agile compared to the phantom. Phantom seems to be the better H2H fighter, but his suit is a huge advantage to him not to mention his smoke bombs and hiss missile armed motorcycle which makes this fight a hard one.

In fist combat alone Phantom rules, but Batman has so many tools that could help him that this could be a close fight. I think however his motorcycle won't be that big of a advantage mainly because he can only fire straight forward. All Phantom would have to do on his more agile horse would be to ride parallel to him shoot at his tires and Batman's Bike is down. After this I imagine Batman would hide behind the bike avoiding the gun fire. Then he would probably throw a smoke bomb and hide within the cloud throwing batarangs at the horse making it fall as well. After this Batman would grab his sword since he has no more bullets. He would wait outside the smoky area...Batman would jump out of the smoke and wrestle Phantom to the ground. While he is on the ground he will try to cut batman with his sharp gloves. Batman however is stronger and has been wrestling with lions. He will overwhelm Batman then do one of the following things:

• Knock him out
• Pick up his sword and execute him
• Or give batman another chance to stand up and keep fighting.

If he chooses the third alternative Batman will go against him in hand to hand combat. In which case Phantom due to his superior speed and agility will knock Batman to the ground. I have btw never seen Batman kick someone in the movie, which leads me to believe he can't...which means Phantom would have a range advantage. I'm sorry but everything points towards Phantom completely slaughtering Batman.

Just because you have not seen Batman kick, does not mean he can not kick. Maybe he realizes that a kick would leave him defenseless below the leg, allowing for a duck and trip. And plus the fighting in the Batman movies, especially in Batman Begins has terrible camera work, you have no idea what is going on except for somewhat of a vague idea. He could have kicked in the movies, its just so strange looking you can't really tell what's happening.

@HBKTimHBK: So now you argue for things one doesn't even see in the movie. I see no kicks in the movie and therefore have to conclude that his suit prevents him from kicking high. I'm not arguing from anything but what was shown in the movie, that you walk outside of what is being allowed to be argued from means you are loosing ground in this debate. It seems like Phantom despite all arguments put forward easily will solo batman in a H2H and even while Batman has a motorcycle Phantom on his horse will still kill him. Looking at the movies everything points towards this being the case.

@Hermoor: Maybe in Batman Begins his suit prevented him from kicking high, but I'm not sure in the Dark Knight. He did gain a new suit which was said to make him far more flexible. And since Bruce Wayne was trained by Ra's al Ghul, the head of one of the greatest assassin/ninja groups of the time, I'm sure Batman has the possibility to be able to kick.

@HBKTimHBK: I'm also sure that since phantom can crush a coconut with his hand he would be able to do the same with Batman's fist or head....that is basically your argument. You can't take stuff that you either imagine to be true or something that is from the comics and ARGUE from that. That would be breaking the rules of what I wrote in the OP.

It seems like Phantom indeed is the stronger one and could easily replace Batman in justice league. This fact is confirmed by hyiena

@Hermoor: So what you want me to do is to look at the things that are in the movie okay. He is trained by Ra's al Ghul, a very good martial artist and can handle himself h2h with multiple opponents. He also has gotten a slimmed down version of his suit, which makes him more flexible and agile. But judging from this you don't believe he can lift his foot up above his waist?