Batman Vs. Luke Cage

@darkraiden said:

Luke stomps. He's shown resistance to nerve strikes and even neural disruptor rays

Gallery

In those scans Luke went down to his knees after the nerve strike. He got up because the lady stopped attacking. More recently Luke was down for the count due to nerve strikes. see post 40

I've only seen Luke thunderclap once and it didn't even KO a normal human woman. Has it done it more then that?

@pooty: Exactly, nerve strikes are supposed to incapacitate you, KO you, Luke went down and then came back up. Bats has nothing else that can hurt Cage, and his nerve strikes will fail to KO him.

Did you see post #40 when Luke did NOT get back up? I don't know how skilled the lady is that used nerve attacks on him but most people agree that Bruce and Tchalla are near equals. Bruce has used nerve attacks on Solomon Grundy. They will work on Cage just like Tchalla's did. Cage was down for the count.

So...you're discarding one showing where he was unaffected, in favor for the one that supports your opinion in other words?

Gallery

Pretty sure he tanks a neural disruptor ray in those scans. That'd be 2-1 saying that nerve strikes don't work on him. Also I remember Daredevi's not working on him either.

Honestly, I think Batman would break his legs trying to kick in Luke's face.

Then Bats will be crippled and left at the mercy of an angry black man.

Via PIS, Prep Time or Nerve Strikes - Batman.

Logically - Luke Cage, in a ridiculous stomp.

And the Thunderbolts. I would hope he has some kind of tactical mind.

@pooty: It doesn't need to, it can be a perfect setup for Luke bumrushing Batman after he's been knocked over. Hell, he can just thunderclap again and again just to be even more annoying, the point is that Batman has no real defense against it aside from getting behind some solid cover.

Also, what darkraiden just said, nerve strikes mean jack if they can't incapacitate the opponent enough to take them out of the fight. Aside from the use of gas, there's not much Batman can really do against Cage.

The Bat-Fans really know how to create loopholes, trying their best not to let Batman lose, but he does lose.

Its a viable tactic Batman can use.

In a straight up hand to hand fight, Luke wrecks.

luke cage stomps

@vmole: That lady hit Cage once and put him on his knees. Tchalla attacked multiple spots and put him down for good. So enough nerve strikes will put Cage down for good. also i've only seen one thunderclap from Cage that didn't KO a normal human woman. Do you have scans or issues of it being more effective? Also, bats can "ghost" as in disappear while he is standing in front of you and appear behind you where he can do as many nerve attacks as needed. Would you like scans of him doing it to The Flash or Deadshot or Martian Manhunter?

@darkraiden said:

@pooty said:

@darkraiden said:

@pooty: Exactly, nerve strikes are supposed to incapacitate you, KO you, Luke went down and then came back up. Bats has nothing else that can hurt Cage, and his nerve strikes will fail to KO him.

Did you see post #40 when Luke did NOT get back up? I don't know how skilled the lady is that used nerve attacks on him but most people agree that Bruce and Tchalla are near equals. Bruce has used nerve attacks on Solomon Grundy. They will work on Cage just like Tchalla's did. Cage was down for the count.

So...you're discarding one showing where he was unaffected, in favor for the one that supports your opinion in other words?

Gallery

Pretty sure he tanks a neural disruptor ray in those scans. That'd be 2-1 saying that nerve strikes don't work on him. Also I remember Daredevi's not working on him either.

You are not looking at the context. That lady hit Cage once and put him on his knees. Tchalla attacked multiple spots and put him down for good. So enough nerve strikes will put Cage down for good. Also, bats can "ghost" as in disappear while he is standing in front of you and appear behind you where he can do as many nerve attacks as needed. Would you like scans of him doing it to The Flash or Deadshot or Martian Manhunter?

Also these anti-bat fans dont know enough about Bats. He can disappear from right in front of you and appear behind you where you can nerve strike to his delight. I have scans if needed.

Who would have thought someone with durability on Cages level can be susceptible to nerve strikes. I know how fast Batman is, but how frequently does Batman use nerve strikes?

@monsterstomp: I think it's BS that nerve strikes hurt someone with steel skin. But it has happened enough that it's canon and not PIS. batman uses nerve strikes against opponents that he is too weak to hurt. He has used it against Grundy who is much stronger then cage. bats will use whatever technique he needs to win.

@pooty: Batman's not even fast enough to get that off. Honestly, Black Panther isn't either. That's PIS, as Luke has tagged the likes of Spider-man (in his low showings) Iron Fist, Sabretooth, all with ease, BP shouldn't be able to blitz him that fast. Bats can disappear, I know, I know all about Batman's abilities. Disappearing doesn't do much, most he can do is appear, do a nerve strike, and end up like the guy from Thunderbolts team and get one shotted. But since this is a fight, and he has no knowledge, he goes for a flying side kick or w/e breaks his leg, Cage KOs him.

@pooty: I'd concede to that.

If you know all of batmans abilities then you wouldn't be thinking Cage can break his leg and KO him with one attack.

Tagging fast characters isn't a speed feat. This is mentioned in the battle forum rules, since characters don't always use there speed for plot. By this logic batman has tagged kid flash more then once so he should be way faster then Luke Cage....

Not sure why everyone is assuming batman will start things off with a kick as opposed to a punch either. His Kevlar has actually been designed to help prevent him from breaking bones.

I'm wondering if Batman can get in and get out without Luke hitting him? Has he tagged anyone as fast as Batman, like idk Daredevil?

@pooty: Cage has taken down Tombstone, he's one shotted Ironclad, taken down Sabretooth, toppled giants like Goliath, taken down Iron Fist, oneshotted Rhino, and more. Yeah he should be able to oneshot Batman.

@jashro44

:yes it is. Because Bats has to hit him multiple times BEFORE Luke gets a hit off. Spider-man, Iron Fist, Sabretooth, etc. have been unable to do so, Bats can't either.

@darkraiden: with the exception of Iron fist none of those people have the skill of Bats. and I would love to see when cage beat iron fist. Bats doesn't have to hit him many times. TWICE is enough. The lady stunned Cage with ONE move. Just one. Tchalla put cage face down in the dirt with TWO moves. If you think Cage can beat Bruce before he gets two hits then you are wrong.

@pooty: Black Panther also had prior knowledge of Cage's history and abilities and attacked where it was appropriate, Batman won't have the same luxury and is going into the fight blind.

As for 'ghosting' against Deadshot and Martian Manhunter, Deadshot instinctively pulls his shots against Batman that would otherwise be lethal, and last I checked, Bruce almost died when Martian Manhunter went crazy at one point and broke into his house, no disappearing tricks involved in that instance.

Can anyone name ONE established fighter that Cage has beaten? Not just tagged or hit. But actually beaten?

man i really was going to skip reading the comments and say is this a serious battle cause luke stomps, but then i read the comments and i have to now go with bruce.

Spider-man was a teenager, sabretooth is a jobber but more importantly depends on his healing factor,

The only fight I remember with iron fist off the top of my head they were both weakened. Luke cage tagged Danny twice. The first punch was a sucker punch, and the second Luke cage hit Luke cage pretended he was done fighting and Danny let his guard down. More importantly though within the fight Danny remarked "you can't hurt what you can't hit, and you still don't have any finesse" as he proceeded to dodge cages strikes.

And again characters get tagged all the time in a comic. So saying character A has tagged character B doesn't show that character A has speed.

@pooty Classic Cage beat Classic Sabretooth who was still above Batman in physical stats. Honestly all Cage needs to do is tag Batman to beat him since Bruce can't take many (if any) hits from him without going down.

I these are them (won't upload right now):

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2989/43040209.jpg

http://img170.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-9719/loc717/72354_Cage_919933_No.12_p31_122_717lo.jpg

http://img194.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-12897/loc179/72356_Cage_119939_No.12_p32_122_179lo.jpg

http://img23.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-28393/loc950/72361_Cage_919937_No.12_p33_122_950lo.jpg

http://img152.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-6102/loc663/72367_Cage_619934_No.12_p34_122_663lo.jpg

and he does well against iron man:

http://img19.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-3962/loc1173/96125_Power_Man_017-10_122_1173lo.JPG

http://img46.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-3259/loc1078/96132_Power_Man_017-11_122_1078lo.JPG

http://img46.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-3259/loc678/96136_Power_Man_017-12_122_678lo.JPG

http://img187.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-8862/loc190/96138_Power_Man_017-14_122_190lo.JPG

http://img15.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-2950/loc637/96144_Power_Man_017-15_122_637lo.JPG

http://img143.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-2759/loc812/96151_Power_Man_017-16_122_812lo.JPG

and beats green goblin:

http://img13.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-32594/loc1007/77617_tenchi_pulse5_p16_122_1007lo.jpg

http://img158.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-9735/loc1101/77622_tenchi_pulse5_p17_122_1101lo.jpg

http://img20.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-595/loc1180/77628_tenchi_pulse5_p18_122_1180lo.jpg

http://img149.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-23335/loc631/77635_tenchi_pulse5_p19_122_631lo.jpg

http://img190.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-16996/loc133/77641_tenchi_pulse5_p20_122_133lo.jpg

as for speed:
http://img16.imagevenue.com/aAfkjfp01fo1i-22433/loc1082/84894_Power_Man_5_Iron_Fist_850_-_18_122_1082lo.jpg

he caught a bullet, kinda.

he also kinda beat taskmaster iirc:

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu355/ankur29/img005.jpg

I'd have said Batman because knock out gas would work, but Luke's not an idiot and a thunderclap could disperse any gas. And despite the attempt to minimize his thunderclap against Victoria Hand by pointing out that it did little damage, I think it would do more than just disperse gas, but could also be used as a weapon against Batman who would be otherwise hard for Luke to tag. Luke wasn't trying to kill Victoria. He had just been told to accept her by Captain America. He was just mad because he generally doesn't like her and she came at him and his baby with an assault rifle. He thunderclapped her (across a room) to disarm her (and probably vent a little). Even if we assume that he can't do any more damage than that, which is ridiculous, it would still be something he could use to set up Batman for an easier hit after. When it comes to nerve strikes, from what's been posted in this thread, they look like temporary solutions. A big deal is being made over Black Panther taking him down with multiple nerve strikes but it looked to me like he stunned him with one then took his leg out from under him then gave him a little talking to while he was down. The momentary stuns afforded by nerve strikes are similar to good hits in other fights, not necessarily something that would end the fight. Batman could try to stun him with a nerve strike and gas him then, but unless Luke is forced to breath, I don't see why that would work. So they both have a way to set up the other for a follow up hit (though obviously, Luke can turn Batman to paste on a first hit) but Batman's setup requires him being right on Luke without getting hit, and his follow up requires Luke taking a breath, while Luke's setup works from a distance, covers a wide area, and might end the fight itself, and the follow up requires no cooperation from Batman.

In a random encounter, Batman would be unconscious by the time he figured Cage out.

@buckshot: All though the thunder clap can do some damage to batman, is it something Cage does often? Because I have only seen the one instance with Victoria hand. As for nerve strikes one of the instances in this thread (the one where the woman tries it) makes Cage make a "angnk" sound. So couldn't pressure points be used on Cage to force him to breathe out? Also does batman need to get close to Luke Cage to use gas? Couldn't batman just toss a flashbang down and blind Luke Cage and then use gas? If he is blind I don't think he would be aware of the gas until he breathes it in.

@vmole: What prior knowledge does Bruce need on Cage? Again Bats has hit Grundy with no problem. Kicked down steel doors. Beaten Bane in Venom.Bruce isn't going to shatter from hitting luke cage. Cage has never one shot a fighter on Bats level.Plus Bats has his gadgets to provide distraction if needed. and there is no reason Bats can't ghost luke cage

@jashro44: Pretty sure Cage also thunderclapped someone in Thunderbolts, but if you want to play the "does he do it often" game, when was the last time you saw Batman blind, nerve strike, then gas someone, then hit them so they'd exhale and hope they'd inhale? The nerve strike didn't force Luke Cage to make a sound in any of the examples, check again. And even if it did, you can make a sound without inhaling. Voiced exhalation doesn't necessitate immediate inhaling.

With 2 hits Tchalla was able to put Cage down long enough to get away and long enough for people to have a conversation. That's incapacitation at the least. Batman can use pressure points to make you stop breathing. and everywhere he hits this guy are weak points on Luke Cage body also:

http://img40.imagevenue.com/view.php?loc=loc101&image=0b1_batpoints1.jpg

http://img23.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc23&image=292_batpoints2.jpg

and if this is blood lusted then Bat knows a killing tecnique

http://img45.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc149&image=a97_bataxe1.jpg

http://img7.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc210&image=99c_bataxe2.jpg

and with the reinforced armor in bats suit he can take and dish out some punishment as well

T'Challa dropped Luke to the ground when Luke wasn't even trying to fight him. He was there trying to talk and he got dropped, but I think you're making even that out to be more than it was. He wasn't "incapacitated", he was already getting back up from the ground when T'Challa started talking to him and telling him to leave him alone. Judging by the other instances shown of Luke getting nerve attacked, the best such an attack will do is drop him momentarily, but as in the two examples where he's not dropped by someone he considers a close friend, he's ready to pop right back up and take his opponent down. Your other examples don't help you much. You can't say "hu hu hu can't breathe hu hu hu" if you actually can't breathe. Speech requires air flow. And Batman knowing killing techniques that require him to put his hand through someone's body won't help him against Luke cage.

@buckshot: Two attacks by Tchalla put him down. Then Tchalla stopped attacking. In this fight bats has no reason to stop attacking. A double shot to the ears would affect his equilibrium. A kick to the temples. Or use a cryo pellet or any number of things in his belt. Point is once Cage is down, Bats has enough skill/gadgets to keep him down. And obviously dude was able to breathe but not enough to continue functioning long afterward. Last time I checked Cage still needs to breathe

Kick to temples won't do anything, arguably either will a double shot to the ears. Cage has super durability, Bats will just end up hurting himself.

@darkraiden: If he is so durable then pressure points wouldn't affect him.

@pooty: Bats has plenty of reason to stop attacking, because he thinks his tactics would work, just like Luke's attackers did in the other two showings. Before bringing Luke down Black Panther thinks about his knowledge of Luke in determining how he's going to fight him, that's something Batman won't have. The only thing you listed that would actually hurt Luke would be freeze pellets, and Luke could thunderclap bats from across the room before he got close enough to use a nerve strike on him. Or he could wait til Batman got close and as soon as he realizes tagging him is hard he could thunderclap or ground stomp to win. All these tactics Batman has to try just to hurt Luke can win with a simple thunderclap.

Pressure points meant to knock him unconscious or paralyze him simply knock him over for a second. If that. When Black Panther did it, he didn't even fall until T'Challa kicked him in the knee while Cage was wondering what he was up to.

@pooty: ....they really don't. Haven't you seen? They barely affect him for like...a second. I mean he's really, really durable. Been hit through buildings by Thing, been hit by Hulk, his durability is insane.

@pooty: They affect him, just not anywhere as severely as a normal person to put him out of the game, he's just going to get back up even if he does manage to get struck.

I mean are we forgetting that someone considerably weaker than Luke Cage already gave Batman a severe beating? On that note, did Batman even try nerve striking him during that fight? That would have really helped don't you think?

@buckshot: So bats stops attacking and when he sees Luke starting to get up, he attacks some more. Is he going to wait until Luke is standing erect? And Tchalla put him down for more then a second. Tchalla was able to talk to him. and guys were in the back talking and taking pics and Luke still wasn't on his feet. Your body has multiple nerve points and i'm sure Bruce knows them all and can use them in tandem. Bruce has dodged and blocked bullets. Has snatched guns from people before they could pull the trigger and has went "ghost" on people. He can avoid a thunder clap.

@vmole: batman was DEAD TIRED from fighting constantly for 3 or 4 days straight when Bane beat him. I'm assuming Bruce will be fresh for this fight.

look at the scans. He is down for panels. People have conversations. take pictures and tchalla was able to leave before he got to his feet. much more then a second. also in all those scans the person stopped attacking. Bruce can continue attacking. Doing more pressure point attacks. or freeze pellets or stun guns or mini grenades. I couldn't pull up those images you showed but I heard there is context to them. As for now i have not seen Cage beat an elite fighter. But i have seen Bats beat many people stronger then him.

@pooty: Or Luke Cage just thunderclaps him before he gets anywhere close. You can hype up his high end feats if you want, but Batman has also been hit by normal humans and people not as fast as Luke Cage or the speed of sound.

As for how long Luke was on the ground, Black Panther had attacked Luke multiple times and Luke never fought back. Just because he continued to let Black Panther do what he was doing and hear him out, doesn't mean he couldn't get up. He was not lying prone on the ground when he was listening to BP and I think you're exaggerating the time that took place between Luke going down and starting to get up. Three different people said one line of dialog each. Three people saying something doesn't take long, and that's if they each take turns instead of just speaking at once. Nerve attacks are at best going to knock over Luke Cage. A thunderclap will at best, end this fight before Batman gets close to touching Luke.

@buckshot: Damn I missed watching you work, where you been big bruh?

@buckshot: Or Luke Cage just thunderclaps him before he gets anywhere close

Please show the effects of this awesome thunderclap you keep mentioning.

I think you're exaggerating the time that took place between Luke going down and starting to get up

I think you are understating how long it took him to get up. Even in the fight with the girl he was on one knee. Not to mention he can make it hard or near impossible for Cage to breath. Nerve attacks are not his only option.

The thunderclap that's been mentioned most in this thread flung Victoria Hand across a room and knocked a gun out of her hand. He did that without effort and right next to his baby. That's small scale. Even if he couldn't do more than that (which is a ridiculous notion) he could still keep Batman grounded for something else. And since you put so much stock in someone being on the ground, that should spell game over for Batman.

...He was on one knee because unless you're a martial artist doing some fancy kick flip to your feet, thats a pretty common way to get up off the ground. Your only evidence of Batman making it hard for someone to breathe showed someone not just breathing but also speaking. And considering he used a nerve strike of some sort to do that, I would expect the effects of that strike to be greatly diminished when used on Luke Cage just like paralyzing strikes have been.

Iono, around. Nothing particularly interesting. Just life.