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#1 Posted by xD34DP001x (234 posts) - - Show Bio

Martial Arts fight, Who wins?
No powers or anything.

#2 Posted by GTG12 (1575 posts) - - Show Bio

batman. Too many gadgets and major skillz

#3 Posted by ARMIV2 (8290 posts) - - Show Bio

Just martial arts? No equipment or chi or anything like that?

Hmmm...

#4 Posted by Montaq (932 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by nick_hero22 (6749 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

#6 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

Moderator
#7 Posted by KhioneElizabethMaren (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Definitely Batman.

#8 Edited by Jezer (3096 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

#9 Posted by krilling (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Kang.

#10 Posted by Enemybird (3138 posts) - - Show Bio

@krilling said:

I'd say Kang.

Me too...

#11 Edited by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jezer said:

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

But in regards to a fight having knowledge in a variety of martial arts allows you to have an arsenal to choose from, that if a move doesn't work you can try a different tactic and keep the opponent guessing as opposed to the one with knowledge in only one area where his fighting style becomes predictable. You can know different martial arts but you don't have to try and apply their philosophies simultaneously you just have to apply what's at the moment and I'm pretty sure Batman's knowledge on these is sufficent enough that even if he is spread thin he would still be sufficient in using all of them.

Let's consider your sports analogy, I find it to be not as strong as it could be because when I look at it the "sport" represents the type of fighting be it hand to hand or with weapons or ranged. To me it's more like this if in a game of basketball a player only focus' on his 3 point shooting is put up against someone who is a great perimeter defender, stealer, and shot blocker the defender has more ways to prevent the offense from scoring whereas the offense who has no skill on the inside would struggle outside if the perimeter defense is tight enough and would surely get blocked if he drives to the hoop.

#12 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

In a fair fight, kang takes Bruce in just a normal karate uniform and no toys. Fight takes place in a ring.

#13 Posted by nick_hero22 (6749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jezer said:

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

Well if you possess a variety of knowledge wouldn't that make you more well rounded? Batman is also a master of Kung-Fu has trained with the best from his universe and has shown to be extremely skilled, I would be willing to say that Batman possesses a more imitate knowledge of Kung-Fu since he has been all around the world training with different masters and has shown that he knows everything every pressure point and nerve strike in martial arts and many different special techniques (Leopard Blow, Vibrating Palm, and etc.).

#14 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@Jezer said:

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

Well if you possess a variety of knowledge wouldn't that make you more well rounded? Batman is also a master of Kung-Fu has trained with the best from his universe and has shown to be extremely skilled, I would be willing to say that Batman possesses a more imitate knowledge of Kung-Fu since he has been all around the world training with different masters and has shown that he knows everything every pressure point and nerve strike in martial arts and many different special techniques (Leopard Blow, Vibrating Palm, and etc.).

But you could argue that Kang was trained in only Kung-Fu but trained to take on all martial arts and people that are nearly immortal with centuries of battle experience. Even if he does not master other arts, he had to have been trained to counter them (he did win the tournament and I'd be baffled if all his opponents used only Kung-fu). Its possible that Raiden had monks from other schools visit for his training.

#15 Posted by nick_hero22 (6749 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Jezer said:

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

Well if you possess a variety of knowledge wouldn't that make you more well rounded? Batman is also a master of Kung-Fu has trained with the best from his universe and has shown to be extremely skilled, I would be willing to say that Batman possesses a more imitate knowledge of Kung-Fu since he has been all around the world training with different masters and has shown that he knows everything every pressure point and nerve strike in martial arts and many different special techniques (Leopard Blow, Vibrating Palm, and etc.).

But you could argue that Kang was trained in only Kung-Fu but trained to take on all martial arts and people that are nearly immortal with centuries of battle experience. Even if he does not master other arts, he had to have been trained to counter them (he did win the tournament and I'd be baffled if all his opponents used only Kung-fu). Its possible that Raiden had monks from other schools visit for his training.

When was Liu Kang trained to take on all martial arts? Liu Kang won the tournament because he was simply a better fighter not because he was trained to counter all martial arts, most of the monks he would have trained under would have only known Kung-Fu based martial arts while Batman knows martial arts from Asia and other continents. Where is the proof that Raiden had other monks train him besides Bo Rai Cho?

#16 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

Hrm. Its hard to say because Liu Kang doesn't have a lot of cannon feats to look at like Batman does.

Who is to say how much of his abilities come from his 'chi powers' and how much come from being well trained?

#17 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@drgnx said:

@nick_hero22 said:

@Jezer said:

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

Well if you possess a variety of knowledge wouldn't that make you more well rounded? Batman is also a master of Kung-Fu has trained with the best from his universe and has shown to be extremely skilled, I would be willing to say that Batman possesses a more imitate knowledge of Kung-Fu since he has been all around the world training with different masters and has shown that he knows everything every pressure point and nerve strike in martial arts and many different special techniques (Leopard Blow, Vibrating Palm, and etc.).

When was Liu Kang trained to take on all martial arts? Liu Kang won the tournament because he was simply a better fighter not because he was trained to counter all martial arts, most of the monks he would have trained under would have only known Kung-Fu based martial arts while Batman knows martial arts from Asia and other continents. Where is the proof that Raiden had other monks train him besides Bo Rai Cho?

ummm...Reread my comment

But you could argue that Kang was trained in only Kung-Fu but trained to take on all martial arts and people that are nearly immortal with centuries of battle experience. Even if he does not master other arts, he had to have been trained to counter them (he did win the tournament and I'd be baffled if all his opponents used only Kung-fu). Its possible that Raiden had monks from other schools visit for his training.

#18 Posted by nick_hero22 (6749 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: You still have no proof for your arguement since it's based on pure speculation. Batman has better h2h combat feats most of the fighters Liu Kang beat had very little feats or were mediocre.

#19 Posted by nick_hero22 (6749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lady_Liberty said:

Hrm. Its hard to say because Liu Kang doesn't have a lot of cannon feats to look at like Batman does.

Who is to say how much of his abilities come from his 'chi powers' and how much come from being well trained?

No Chi, just a degree of pyrokinesis

#20 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@drgnx: You still have no proof for your arguement since it's based on pure speculation. Batman has better h2h combat feats most of the fighters Liu Kang beat had very little feats or were mediocre.

Really, what ever gave you the idea my argument was speculation? Why do you think I told you to reread my statement and highlighted the words "could" and "possibility"? I was not trying to prove anything, I was putting a thought out there.

Batman has more feats because he has more comics, but Lui Kang beat Tseng, Reptile, Sub zero and Kahn which were no small feats.

#21 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23302 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce...

Online
#22 Posted by karetaker (1565 posts) - - Show Bio

bats.no doubt in my head

#23 Posted by Beerhappy (283 posts) - - Show Bio

Liu Kang runs a clinic on Bats.

Bats has some skills with h2h, devices, gadgets, and is a good detective.

Liu Kang only does h2h, he fights gods to the death with just h2h, he battles beings from "hell" and wins.

Straight up h2h - Bats has ZERO chance.

This is so obvious. I know the batman fans will cry, but really Kang only exists to kick ass.

But please, I need to hear how Batman will defeat Kang, I could use a few laughs.

#24 Edited by Jezer (3096 posts) - - Show Bio

@Steps said:

@Jezer said:

@nick_hero22 said:

I say Batman in a good fight. Liu Kang definitely possesses the skills to get him a fight decent fight due being trained since a child in martial arts and he has shown to be capable of beating some pretty impressive people, but Batman possesses more knowledge and a variety of it, and on top of that he has better h2h showings.

Does possessing more knowledge on a large variety of different martial arts actually translate to being better theoretically than someone who possesses more intensive knowledge on only one or a few?

Let me put it another way: Does partaking in every sport make you more athletic than a person who chooses to focus, and train intensely, for one or two sports? I feel like knowing too many different martial arts would be like spreading yourself too thin. I mean, different martial arts have different philosophies that contradict each other. And, when it comes down to it, he's not going to be using all of those styles when he's fighting...

But in regards to a fight having knowledge in a variety of martial arts allows you to have an arsenal to choose from, that if a move doesn't work you can try a different tactic and keep the opponent guessing as opposed to the one with knowledge in only one area where his fighting style becomes predictable. You can know different martial arts but you don't have to try and apply their philosophies simultaneously you just have to apply what's at the moment and I'm pretty sure Batman's knowledge on these is sufficent enough that even if he is spread thin he would still be sufficient in using all of them.

Let's consider your sports analogy, I find it to be not as strong as it could be because when I look at it the "sport" represents the type of fighting be it hand to hand or with weapons or ranged. To me it's more like this if in a game of basketball a player only focus' on his 3 point shooting is put up against someone who is a great perimeter defender, stealer, and shot blocker the defender has more ways to prevent the offense from scoring whereas the offense who has no skill on the inside would struggle outside if the perimeter defense is tight enough and would surely get blocked if he drives to the hoop.

In theory, but that isn't how it actually works. From watching MMA, I know that different martial arts help you develop different parts of your overall style. Boxing will develop good striking skills and footwork. Wrestling could develop good grappling skills. You're not really picking up specific moves, but developing better skills in specific areas. Because, when it comes down to it, you have your own unique fighting style. Different fighting styles place different emphasis on which foot to put your weight on, how rigid your stance should be, where you should aim, ect.

I don't agree with your analogy because no fighting style focuses solely on one aspect of fighting. No fighting style is equatable to a player who only focuses on 3 point shots. Kung fu teaches punches, kicks, throws, and joint locks. Even boxing, which is primarily punching, works footwork, timing, and dodging as well. If it works a variety of different areas, one fighting style is sufficient enough to match someone who's picked up relevant skills from many different ones.

In my sports analogy, the sport represents the different range of motions and skills required for that sport. The different muscles it works. Basketball involves alot of sprinting, sudden acceleration, hand coordination, footwork, ect. These are all the different muscles it works:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/458042-what-muscles-do-you-use-when-playing-basketball/

Considering the fact that athletic can be defined as "3. Physically strong and well-developed; muscular"[thefreedictionary.com]

playing basketball helps your overall athleticism because, even though it's one sport, it develops your strength in all those variety of ways that a person would get from playing different sports. To train intensely for basketball(by playing basketball) would require you to focus on improving your athleticism, while playing many different sports means you can't train intensely for any single one. Thus, it doesn't necessarily make you more athletic.

#25 Posted by zhunter (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@Beerhappy said:

Liu Kang runs a clinic on Bats.

Bats has some skills with h2h, devices, gadgets, and is a good detective.

Liu Kang only does h2h, he fights gods to the death with just h2h, he battles beings from "hell" and wins.

Straight up h2h - Bats has ZERO chance.

This is so obvious. I know the batman fans will cry, but really Kang only exists to kick ass.

But please, I need to hear how Batman will defeat Kang, I could use a few laughs.

Ok, funny enough this guy sums it up to me. I am a fervent fan of batman and completely feel that Bats can take on most enemies (GIVEN TIME TO PREP) but honestly in this scenario batman would be at a loss. For a few key reason ill note here in a moment.

*1) Batman has never fought in mortal kombat. (Though if he had this would be hands down Bats)

*(So after a bit of researching I had forgotten that indeed DC vs. MK did already happen and Batman was indeed there.)

*2) Batman has never met Liu Kang which means he does not have the "OMG im batman and I have a pre formed strategy file on you."

*(Once again Batman has met and faced off against Kang in the DC vs. MK game and beat him though with his tech of course. So realistically if its cannon he now has a File. )

3) Lui Kang in my mind falls in the same realm as a Ra's al Ghul type of char with extraordinary martial arts abilities. And it is well known he is one of the most skilled rivals of Batman has ever had.

4) Batman is an amazing H2H fighter but without his gadgets he is significantly weaker especially against a trained and war tested martial artist such as Kang.

5) Lui Kang is a Shaolin Monk of the highest class and has been raised since childhood as a warrior. This is easily a rival to Batman who started his learning at a Teen age and i'm sure that he has had less time to learn other styles through his very busy career now. This is speculation but from a pure training standpoint I feel Kang has the extra time put in. Kang has natural pyrokenisis and the ability as most Shaolins to bend the laws of gravity. Giving the tech reliant Batman even less of an edge. (The only thing that I need to note on this is that if Batman is as trained as every fanboy would hope he should have some style to counter Shaolin but any master of their art should be able to act accordingly to prevent that.)

In the end I would need to say.

Batman purely because he had a file.

#26 Posted by The_Elemetal (148 posts) - - Show Bio

Well it would be close but Batman if we are talking Bruce. Has mastered not just learned but mastered 127 types of martial arts so i think he could take this

#27 Edited by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not sure how many styles Batman has, but Shang Tsung has a quite a few souls under his belt (at least the hundreds...I think the movie said 1000), and therefor that many skill sets (yes there will be some overlap), plus he has hundreds of years of combat experience. Lui Kang still beat him.

#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio
@drgnx said:

I'm not sure how many styles Batman has, but Shang Tsung has a quite a few souls under his belt (at least the hundreds...I think the movie said 1000), and therefor that many skill sets (yes there will be some overlap), plus he has hundreds of years of combat experience. Lui Kang still beat him.

I don't think it's the same thing.Batman has feats to go with his stated mastery.
Moderator
#29 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio
@Beerhappy said:

Liu Kang runs a clinic on Bats.

Bats has some skills with h2h, devices, gadgets, and is a good detective.

Liu Kang only does h2h, he fights gods to the death with just h2h, he battles beings from "hell" and wins.

Straight up h2h - Bats has ZERO chance.

This is so obvious. I know the batman fans will cry, but really Kang only exists to kick ass.

But please, I need to hear how Batman will defeat Kang, I could use a few laughs.

You're not even making a case.You're basically just calling out Batman fans with statements that have no proof backing them up.
Moderator
#30 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Batman.

#31 Posted by Boneawl (113 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

Based on feats alone, Batman practically stomps.

#32 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@drgnx said:

I'm not sure how many styles Batman has, but Shang Tsung has a quite a few souls under his belt (at least the hundreds...I think the movie said 1000), and therefor that many skill sets (yes there will be some overlap), plus he has hundreds of years of combat experience. Lui Kang still beat him.

I don't think it's the same thing.Batman has feats to go with his stated mastery.

I'm not saying this is evidence that Lui Kang will beat Batman. I'm just pointing out that knowing more schools of martial arts does not guarantee a win for Batman because it didn't for Shang Tsung.

Batman has more feats because he has been around longer and applies to a different media which better allows him to show his feats. To do Lui Kang justice, you would need to show the fighting skills of every fighter Shang Tsung soul stole from before getting his butt handed to him. There just is not room to do that anywhere for the purpose of this video game.

If you looked at Batman's fighting feats in the videos games and movie only, he is not nearly as impressive as the comics. I find this for most characters.

#33 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

This battle shows the fundamental problem with characters from different media.

On the evidence (Feats) Batman destroys Liu Kang.

But that's not really fair. Liu Kang doesn't have a lot of feats, because video game feats require expensive cutsceens and whatnot. Comic's just requires a writer to write it, and artists to draw, ink and color it.

Given the world that he lives in, and the people he has beaten Liu Kang should really be around Iron Fist level. But the problem is, he doesn't have enough feats that show what he should be.

Its the dispute between what feats show, and what logic dictates.

Feats: Batman

Logic: Liu Kang

#34 Posted by SoopahSoup (85 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce got this :U

#35 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@Vance Astro said:

@drgnx said:

I'm not sure how many styles Batman has, but Shang Tsung has a quite a few souls under his belt (at least the hundreds...I think the movie said 1000), and therefor that many skill sets (yes there will be some overlap), plus he has hundreds of years of combat experience. Lui Kang still beat him.

I don't think it's the same thing.Batman has feats to go with his stated mastery.

I'm not saying this is evidence that Lui Kang will beat Batman. I'm just pointing out that knowing more schools of martial arts does not guarantee a win for Batman because it didn't for Shang Tsung.

Batman has more feats because he has been around longer and applies to a different media which better allows him to show his feats. To do Lui Kang justice, you would need to show the fighting skills of every fighter Shang Tsung soul stole from before getting his butt handed to him. There just is not room to do that anywhere for the purpose of this video game.

If you looked at Batman's fighting feats in the videos games and movie only, he is not nearly as impressive as the comics. I find this for most characters.

Actually I'd argue that who said Shang Tsung has access to all of this knowledge at once? As he shapeshifts his styles change, but I can't remember a time that he was not directly using the style of the form he was in. I can't say that holds true in the movies or not, seeing as most of his forms there are of unknown fighters, but his style did change as he did while fighting. That's not to say that I know one way or another but that's to say that it's something that needs to be proved one way or another.

Also on the experience of the fighters he's faced and again I argue that as a feat because I think it was Vance that said it, but "Long life does not automatically translate into fighting skill." Heck, fighting experience doesn't automatically translate into skill. I use this as an example, but if you fight the same kind of battles everyday for a thousand years that doesn't make you prepared for a brand new type of battle on the fly that you've never experienced or even a fighting style or even a true master of a fighting style you've seen arbitrarily. That's to say that it might have been much easier for Shang Tsung before Lui Kang, who's to say that every fighting force he ever faced was unparalleled fighters or that they didn't just panic and run away at the sight of Ice ninjas or flaming skeletons.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that all of this is full of a great many variables that you can't address without actual knowledge about the things the character has faced. That's why feats are so important in these battles because they are a quantifiable measure of what a character explicitly is or isn't capable of.

#36 Edited by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer said:

@drgnx said:

@Vance Astro said:

@drgnx said:

I'm not sure how many styles Batman has, but Shang Tsung has a quite a few souls under his belt (at least the hundreds...I think the movie said 1000), and therefor that many skill sets (yes there will be some overlap), plus he has hundreds of years of combat experience. Lui Kang still beat him.

I don't think it's the same thing.Batman has feats to go with his stated mastery.

I'm not saying this is evidence that Lui Kang will beat Batman. I'm just pointing out that knowing more schools of martial arts does not guarantee a win for Batman because it didn't for Shang Tsung.

Batman has more feats because he has been around longer and applies to a different media which better allows him to show his feats. To do Lui Kang justice, you would need to show the fighting skills of every fighter Shang Tsung soul stole from before getting his butt handed to him. There just is not room to do that anywhere for the purpose of this video game.

If you looked at Batman's fighting feats in the videos games and movie only, he is not nearly as impressive as the comics. I find this for most characters.

Actually I'd argue that who said Shang Tsung has access to all of this knowledge at once? As he shapeshifts his styles change, but I can't remember a time that he was not directly using the style of the form he was in. I can't say that holds true in the movies or not, seeing as most of his forms there are of unknown fighters, but his style did change as he did while fighting. That's not to say that I know one way or another but that's to say that it's something that needs to be proved one way or another.

Also on the experience of the fighters he's faced and again I argue that as a feat because I think it was Vance that said it, but "Long life does not automatically translate into fighting skill." Heck, fighting experience doesn't automatically translate into skill. I use this as an example, but if you fight the same kind of battles everyday for a thousand years that doesn't make you prepared for a brand new type of battle on the fly that you've never experienced or even a fighting style or even a true master of a fighting style you've seen arbitrarily. That's to say that it might have been much easier for Shang Tsung before Lui Kang, who's to say that every fighting force he ever faced was unparalleled fighters or that they didn't just panic and run away at the sight of Ice ninjas or flaming skeletons.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that all of this is full of a great many variables that you can't address without actual knowledge about the things the character has faced. That's why feats are so important in these battles because they are a quantifiable measure of what a character explicitly is or isn't capable of.

Well his shape shifting is actually separate from his soul stealing because he can Shape-Shift into people who are not dead (kung-loa when he killed Lui-Kang in deadly Alliance). Also, Quan Chi took on Sub-Zero's appearance when he killed Scorpion's family. Game-wise, its not possible for him to do everyone's move in one form, and if he could, he would be overpowered.

It wouldn't make sense for him to not have access to the fighting knowledge in base form, even if he can't do some abilities, but I can't prove either way.

Out of Game: just an FYI

The was show once where it was shown that shape shifting was an ability of a sorcerer, Quan Chi was able to change his appearance and that of others and he lacks soul absorption abilities. In the movie, he never shifted to actually fight but did so to play mind games.

----------------------------------------------

I agree that long life does not equal fighting skill, but the same goes for learning more fighting arts, that's the point I was trying to make in that last statement. You can master 127 or whatever, but if someone learns 6 martial arts and that trumps every move you use in the 127, you're still going to lose. This is why I'm saying, who knows more arts does not prove anything. And to be clear, that is all I'm trying to say.

If you want to have a straight-up feat fight, just posting feats is pointless if you can't quantify them and compare them because they are in the same realm of strength and abilities. Its like you watching you're neighbor beat a boxer then saying he can beat another boxer because you have not seen him fight. Forget the fact the other guy is a boxer and everyone is telling you he beat Tyson in a street fight, no one has pictures of the fight and all media pertaining to Tyson's fight were lost in a fire. Your neighbor has feats that can be shown, so he wins. Kang beat a god, but we didn't see a cannon fight sequence so it does not count?

If someone wants to use double standards, and because Authors love to say "he knows every martial art known to man" one could also be extremely anal and tell you:

  • List every martial art listed in any particular DC universe
  • On top of that, show me every move for that style in that universe (and show me batman can do it)
  • if it is not specifically listed, it does not exist in that universe (each fighting style and each move for each fighting style)
  • And you can't compile a master list from each different universe
  • And prove to me that move 4, 50, and 100 are not different stages of the same kick.

(don't actually post ... lol)

#37 Posted by Gottheit (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Lady Liberty really hit the nail on the head.

Personally, I vote Liu Kang, basically because fighting is his life, whereas Batman only fights as a means to an end.

#38 Posted by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat Kick vs Bicycle Kick 
 
  

#39 Posted by Illuminatus (9497 posts) - - Show Bio
@OmegaDynasty: Bat-kick has taken down the Spectre. Obviously, Batman wins.
#40 Posted by Gottheit (3473 posts) - - Show Bio

Basically, can Batman beat early Cassandra Cain(before she talked)? If he can't, he can't beat Liu Kang.

#41 Edited by OmegaDynasty (9184 posts) - - Show Bio
@Illuminatus said:

@OmegaDynasty: Bat-kick has taken down the Spectre. Obviously, Batman wins.

Obviously. PIS kick to the face. That or he Jobbered really hard.  
For some reason I think the Presence screws the Spectre over sometimes . lol
#42 Posted by Beerhappy (283 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@Beerhappy said:

Liu Kang runs a clinic on Bats.

Bats has some skills with h2h, devices, gadgets, and is a good detective.

Liu Kang only does h2h, he fights gods to the death with just h2h, he battles beings from "hell" and wins.

Straight up h2h - Bats has ZERO chance.

This is so obvious. I know the batman fans will cry, but really Kang only exists to kick ass.

But please, I need to hear how Batman will defeat Kang, I could use a few laughs.

You're not even making a case.You're basically just calling out Batman fans with statements that have no proof backing them up.

Has Kang defeated h2h gods in h2h combat, yes.

Has Batman defeated any god with just h2h...no.

But thanks for givivng me a chuckle.

#43 Posted by TifaLockhart (14043 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman. I cite Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe.

#44 Posted by Soulstealer (825 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@Soulstealer said:

@drgnx said:

@Vance Astro said:

@drgnx said:

I'm not sure how many styles Batman has, but Shang Tsung has a quite a few souls under his belt (at least the hundreds...I think the movie said 1000), and therefor that many skill sets (yes there will be some overlap), plus he has hundreds of years of combat experience. Lui Kang still beat him.

I don't think it's the same thing.Batman has feats to go with his stated mastery.

I'm not saying this is evidence that Lui Kang will beat Batman. I'm just pointing out that knowing more schools of martial arts does not guarantee a win for Batman because it didn't for Shang Tsung.

Batman has more feats because he has been around longer and applies to a different media which better allows him to show his feats. To do Lui Kang justice, you would need to show the fighting skills of every fighter Shang Tsung soul stole from before getting his butt handed to him. There just is not room to do that anywhere for the purpose of this video game.

If you looked at Batman's fighting feats in the videos games and movie only, he is not nearly as impressive as the comics. I find this for most characters.

Actually I'd argue that who said Shang Tsung has access to all of this knowledge at once? As he shapeshifts his styles change, but I can't remember a time that he was not directly using the style of the form he was in. I can't say that holds true in the movies or not, seeing as most of his forms there are of unknown fighters, but his style did change as he did while fighting. That's not to say that I know one way or another but that's to say that it's something that needs to be proved one way or another.

Also on the experience of the fighters he's faced and again I argue that as a feat because I think it was Vance that said it, but "Long life does not automatically translate into fighting skill." Heck, fighting experience doesn't automatically translate into skill. I use this as an example, but if you fight the same kind of battles everyday for a thousand years that doesn't make you prepared for a brand new type of battle on the fly that you've never experienced or even a fighting style or even a true master of a fighting style you've seen arbitrarily. That's to say that it might have been much easier for Shang Tsung before Lui Kang, who's to say that every fighting force he ever faced was unparalleled fighters or that they didn't just panic and run away at the sight of Ice ninjas or flaming skeletons.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that all of this is full of a great many variables that you can't address without actual knowledge about the things the character has faced. That's why feats are so important in these battles because they are a quantifiable measure of what a character explicitly is or isn't capable of.

Well his shape shifting is actually separate from his soul stealing because he can Shape-Shift into people who are not dead (kung-loa when he killed Lui-Kang in deadly Alliance). Also, Quan Chi took on Sub-Zero's appearance when he killed Scorpion's family. Game-wise, its not possible for him to do everyone's move in one form, and if he could, he would be overpowered.

It wouldn't make sense for him to not have access to the fighting knowledge in base form, even if he can't do some abilities, but I can't prove either way.

Out of Game: just an FYI

The was show once where it was shown that shape shifting was an ability of a sorcerer, Quan Chi was able to change his appearance and that of others and he lacks soul absorption abilities. In the movie, he never shifted to actually fight but did so to play mind games.

----------------------------------------------

I agree that long life does not equal fighting skill, but the same goes for learning more fighting arts, that's the point I was trying to make in that last statement. You can master 127 or whatever, but if someone learns 6 martial arts and that trumps every move you use in the 127, you're still going to lose. This is why I'm saying, who knows more arts does not prove anything. And to be clear, that is all I'm trying to say.

If you want to have a straight-up feat fight, just posting feats is pointless if you can't quantify them and compare them because they are in the same realm of strength and abilities. Its like you watching you're neighbor beat a boxer then saying he can beat another boxer because you have not seen him fight. Forget the fact the other guy is a boxer and everyone is telling you he beat Tyson in a street fight, no one has pictures of the fight and all media pertaining to Tyson's fight were lost in a fire. Your neighbor has feats that can be shown, so he wins. Kang beat a god, but we didn't see a cannon fight sequence so it does not count?

If someone wants to use double standards, and because Authors love to say "he knows every martial art known to man" one could also be extremely anal and tell you:

  • List every martial art listed in any particular DC universe
  • On top of that, show me every move for that style in that universe (and show me batman can do it)
  • if it is not specifically listed, it does not exist in that universe (each fighting style and each move for each fighting style)
  • And you can't compile a master list from each different universe
  • And prove to me that move 4, 50, and 100 are not different stages of the same kick.

(don't actually post ... lol)

First of all true enough in regards to a game mechanic, and also I don't remember much of Quan Chi at all so I'm surprised but at the same time not really. As for it not making sense, it does actually if you think of it in terms of Shang Tsung having a menagerie of souls and him channeling them as needed for skills abilities and power. Instant person if you will, everything contained within the essence in a simple package. Could he just as easily have a huge mass of souls lacking individuality and granting him all their accumulated knowledge? Indeed. But you're right there is no proof either way.

Also you're right about the shapeshifting in the movie, I just rewatched it and realized that Shang Tsung didn't transform into the guys I though he had, he actually summoned them into the battle. So different power, and I was mistaken.

You're right about quantifying feats however I'd like to point out that the thing about quantifying them is you have to have proof or at least repeated example that they are in the same realm of strength and ability. If your neighbor beat a boxer it doesn't follow that he can beat every boxer, especially one that beat Tyson in a streetfight, but the thing is that the boxer that beat Tyson has to show the skill, strength, speed, and ability he used to beat Tyson in the fight with your neighbor. If he doesn't, then there is no saying he wins. More importantly if Tyson was an unknown amateur boxer with the ability he showed at his peak in the pros, how do you count defeating him as a feat when his speed, strength, and competence is in question? It isn't about parading feats about, it's about showing a level of skill or power comparable to another.

Yes Kang beat a god, but god is and always will be a title. Especially so in Mortal Kombat where the rules for gods are rather complex. Not all gods are created in equal measure, nor is it a power level. Let's take Raiden for example. Raiden is a thunder god, does this automatically place him and Thor in the same league of physical strength? Durability? Even magical out put? Do Thor and Raiden have the exact same set of abilities? Of course I know that's a wonky comparison, but I'm just making my point that all characters are not created equal even within similar social groups. Loki can't punch out Hercules even though they're both gods. Likewise kid Loki was almost beaten up by a kid in a diner. lol (That last one didn't actually happen, but I'm not convinced the bully would have lost.)

I would actually argue that not all versions of certain martial arts are created equal within different comics or other media personally (I'm looking at you Kung Fu), but that's as you put it before is getting a bit anal.

#45 Posted by lectriccolossus (436 posts) - - Show Bio

This is an easy one. Pretty much you have a mixed martial artist versus someone who is disciplined in one art. The logical choice is Batman, but the Mortal Kombat fanatic in me says Liu Kang by dragon fatality

#46 Edited by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@Soulstealer said:

  • @drgnx said:

    @Soulstealer said:

    Well his shape shifting is actually separate from his soul stealing because he can Shape-Shift into people who are not dead (kung-loa when he killed Lui-Kang in deadly Alliance). Also, Quan Chi took on Sub-Zero's appearance when he killed Scorpion's family. Game-wise, its not possible for him to do everyone's move in one form, and if he could, he would be overpowered.

    It wouldn't make sense for him to not have access to the fighting knowledge in base form, even if he can't do some abilities, but I can't prove either way.

    Out of Game: just an FYI

    The was show once where it was shown that shape shifting was an ability of a sorcerer, Quan Chi was able to change his appearance and that of others and he lacks soul absorption abilities. In the movie, he never shifted to actually fight but did so to play mind games.

    ----------------------------------------------

    I agree that long life does not equal fighting skill, but the same goes for learning more fighting arts, that's the point I was trying to make in that last statement. You can master 127 or whatever, but if someone learns 6 martial arts and that trumps every move you use in the 127, you're still going to lose. This is why I'm saying, who knows more arts does not prove anything. And to be clear, that is all I'm trying to say.

    If you want to have a straight-up feat fight, just posting feats is pointless if you can't quantify them and compare them because they are in the same realm of strength and abilities. Its like you watching you're neighbor beat a boxer then saying he can beat another boxer because you have not seen him fight. Forget the fact the other guy is a boxer and everyone is telling you he beat Tyson in a street fight, no one has pictures of the fight and all media pertaining to Tyson's fight were lost in a fire. Your neighbor has feats that can be shown, so he wins. Kang beat a god, but we didn't see a cannon fight sequence so it does not count?

    If someone wants to use double standards, and because Authors love to say "he knows every martial art known to man" one could also be extremely anal and tell you:

    • List every martial art listed in any particular DC universe
    • On top of that, show me every move for that style in that universe (and show me batman can do it)
    • if it is not specifically listed, it does not exist in that universe (each fighting style and each move for each fighting style)
    • And you can't compile a master list from each different universe
    • And prove to me that move 4, 50, and 100 are not different stages of the same kick.

    (don't actually post ... lol)

    First of all true enough in regards to a game mechanic, and also I don't remember much of Quan Chi at all so I'm surprised but at the same time not really. As for it not making sense, it does actually if you think of it in terms of Shang Tsung having a menagerie of souls and him channeling them as needed for skills abilities and power. Instant person if you will, everything contained within the essence in a simple package. Could he just as easily have a huge mass of souls lacking individuality and granting him all their accumulated knowledge? Indeed. But you're right there is no proof either way.

    Also you're right about the shapeshifting in the movie, I just rewatched it and realized that Shang Tsung didn't transform into the guys I though he had, he actually summoned them into the battle. So different power, and I was mistaken.

    You're right about quantifying feats however I'd like to point out that the thing about quantifying them is you have to have proof or at least repeated example that they are in the same realm of strength and ability. If your neighbor beat a boxer it doesn't follow that he can beat every boxer, especially one that beat Tyson in a streetfight, but the thing is that the boxer that beat Tyson has to show the skill, strength, speed, and ability he used to beat Tyson in the fight with your neighbor. If he doesn't, then there is no saying he wins. More importantly if Tyson was an unknown amateur boxer with the ability he showed at his peak in the pros, how do you count defeating him as a feat when his speed, strength, and competence is in question? It isn't about parading feats about, it's about showing a level of skill or power comparable to another.

    Yes Kang beat a god, but god is and always will be a title. Especially so in Mortal Kombat where the rules for gods are rather complex. Not all gods are created in equal measure, nor is it a power level. Let's take Raiden for example. Raiden is a thunder god, does this automatically place him and Thor in the same league of physical strength? Durability? Even magical out put? Do Thor and Raiden have the exact same set of abilities? Of course I know that's a wonky comparison, but I'm just making my point that all characters are not created equal even within similar social groups. Loki can't punch out Hercules even though they're both gods. Likewise kid Loki was almost beaten up by a kid in a diner. lol (That last one didn't actually happen, but I'm not convinced the bully would have lost.)

    I would actually argue that not all versions of certain martial arts are created equal within different comics or other media personally (I'm looking at you Kung Fu), but that's as you put it before is getting a bit anal.

    It sounds like we have the same points with different wording,
#47 Posted by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@lectriccolossus said:

This is an easy one. Pretty much you have a mixed martial artist versus someone who is disciplined in one art. The logical choice is Batman, but the Mortal Kombat fanatic in me says Liu Kang by dragon fatality

Kang actually does know more than one style.

Fighting styles

  • Jun Fan (MK:D, MK:A)
  • Pao Chui (MK:D)
  • Jeet Kune Do (MK:SM) - [Hybrid martial arts in itself]
  • Choy Lay Fut (MK:SM)
  • Monkey (MK:SM)
  • Dragon (MK:SM)

Weapon

  • Dragon Sword (MK4, MKG)
  • Nunchaku (MK:D, MK:A)
#48 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@Enemybird said:

@krilling said:

I'd say Kang.

Me too...

#49 Posted by nick_hero22 (6749 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

@lectriccolossus said:

This is an easy one. Pretty much you have a mixed martial artist versus someone who is disciplined in one art. The logical choice is Batman, but the Mortal Kombat fanatic in me says Liu Kang by dragon fatality

Kang actually does know more than one style.

Fighting styles

  • Jun Fan (MK:D, MK:A)
  • Pao Chui (MK:D)
  • Jeet Kune Do (MK:SM) - [Hybrid martial arts in itself]
  • Choy Lay Fut (MK:SM)
  • Monkey (MK:SM)
  • Dragon (MK:SM)

Weapon

  • Dragon Sword (MK4, MKG)
  • Nunchaku (MK:D, MK:A)

NO

MK:SM is non canon and so are the rest of the games now since the releases of MK 9.

#50 Edited by drgnx (3551 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

@drgnx said:

@lectriccolossus said:

This is an easy one. Pretty much you have a mixed martial artist versus someone who is disciplined in one art. The logical choice is Batman, but the Mortal Kombat fanatic in me says Liu Kang by dragon fatality

Kang actually does know more than one style.

Fighting styles

  • Jun Fan (MK:D, MK:A)
  • Pao Chui (MK:D)
  • Jeet Kune Do (MK:SM) - [Hybrid martial arts in itself]
  • Choy Lay Fut (MK:SM)
  • Monkey (MK:SM)
  • Dragon (MK:SM)

Weapon

  • Dragon Sword (MK4, MKG)
  • Nunchaku (MK:D, MK:A)

NO

MK:SM is non canon and so are the rest of the games now since the releases of MK 9.

The OP was before MK9 and the DC reboot (Oct. 5, 2010). If we have to use current for Kang, then we have to use current for Batman. That leaves little to discuss (and would probably be another thread).