Batman vs Leon S Kennedy and Chris Redfield

Batman still winning to the Charlie sheen song.

The idea that Chris arguably moved a 25 ton bolder isn't far fetched. We have peak humans in real life who can tow C7 cargo planes and trains that weigh over twice - three times as much weight as 25 tons. So that's why I'm not bothered by the feat being used. Its impressive, but nothing overly impressive.

Personally I just google and compare the size of the boulder to the size and weight of real life boulders. I don't think writers think that hard ahead. And as monsterstomp said its not that farfetched. You and Nickzambuto just act like the feat is a lot better than it is. Its a good feat to push a 25 ton boulder but I wouldn't label it a spider-man level feat at all. Like here is a video of someone moving a 3 ton rock with one arm and zero effort:

Likewise I can easily push my dresser; but I can't lift it an inch off the ground. Considering Chris is a lot stronger than a real life human being and he used his whole body to push the rock and actually strained himself its not really impossible to believe or even ridiculous. Its just an impressive feat.

Well it is a 25 ton boulder. The thicker something is the more durable it is IIRC.

Yes, Agreed. The feat is impressive, but lets not pretend he picked up the rock and tossed it.

@jashro44 said:

Batman handily.

@nickzambuto said:

@allstarsuperman said:

Batman easily. His gadgets are huge factors. He has dodged from better marksmen. He is obviously more skilled and tactical. Leon and Chris are arguably aim dodgers, while Batman punches bullets out of the air.

Yeah I know, Chris punches rocks, guess what Batman punches through bazooka proof glass and kicks through missile proof doors.

False. Everything you said is wrong.

1. Chris and Leon have a counter for almost every single one of Batman's gadgets, just a much more lethal version.
2. Chris and Leon are top tier marksman who tag superhumans let alone peak humans regularly, the only people Batman has faced who are better than them are Green Arrow and Deadshot, and the former is limited by his weaponry while the latter pulls his shots on purpose.
3. More skilled than them individually, but they are physically superior and attacking simultaneously Batman will have an extremely difficult time keeping up in close quarters combat.
4. Leon and Chris are bullet timers and I've only seen Batman punch a bullet in Gotham Knight.
5. Batman literally failed to punch through bazooka proof glass. He beat on it with all of his might a dozen times and failed. And the idea that the feat would even be comparable to moving a 25 ton boulder anyway is just fanboy.

Son, I strongly recommend you get gud.

1. Knock out gas? Freeze pellets? They have a counter for that.
2. Batman also dodged deathstrokes blast staff at point blank range.
3. I don't think there faster at all.
4. He dodged a sniper bullet after it was fired, and Chris and Leon have no true bullet timing feats either.
5. No he did crack bazooka proof glass while dying from poisonous gas. Which is significantly more impressive than Chris' boulder feat.

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I'm fine with dismissing this as an outlier (batman doesn't punch that hard on average) but to say Chris' boulder feat is better is ridiculous. The glass was designed so nothing less than a bazooka could crack it; yet a batman that was exposed to gas did crack it after a few hits. Chris feat isn't comparable.

1. Batman isn't tagging them with freeze pellets and all they have to do is hold their breath and run from the the area covered with knock gas.
2. Nothing compared to dodging automatic gunfire from two expert marksmen.
3. Tyrant's are faster than Batman. They can block bullets with their hand after they're fired from point blank, catch rockets, dodge a tank round from point blank before it could even leave the barrel, catch a Licker(extremely fast and agile bullet timer) by it's head and later kill three more Lickers at same time. Claire dodged a sniper round from point blank and still she could barely see a Tyrant closing in on her. Leon was dodging it's hits effortlessly. Chris and Leon are stronger and more durable by a good margin. Leon is definitely faster than Bruce.
4. Dodging a sniper bullet would at best put him on Claire's level of speed. Probably slower since Claire dodged a sniper round from a close range an she only started moving when the bullet was already near her head, while Bruce dodged a sniper round from a long distance, losing speed. Claire is a low to mid tier RE character. Chris and Leon are Top tiers.

As for Leon not having bullet timing feats:

Below you can see pictures taken from a video

Doesn't matter if those guys aims were accurate or not. Leon clearly looked at all those bullets flying through the air, lowered his weapon, turned around, took 1 or 2 quick and short steps, and jumped before they(bullets) could even reach the area where he was standing. Those bullets only started passing near him and Helena when they're already jumping. That's actually better than what most comic book bullet timers do when dodging bullets(Batman included) which is pulling their head out of the bullet's path or moving a single part of their body to react to a bullet.

Here is the video so you can judge it by yourself.

Try watching it with 0.25 speed if possible.

5. The dialogue says that Batman was trying to get out, punching and kicking the glass for long minutes. I believe taking down Wesker for a few seconds with a few punches is more impressive. After all, a rocket exploding in his face could barely stun him for a couple seconds.

Batman is analytical and had face tougher adversaries than this RE team.

got stealth ( i dont see any RE characters goes against stealth characters, much more Batman level stealth), tactical and strategic genius.

the worlds greatest detectitve he can easily percieved the enemies weakness and exploit it.

and if there is no weakness ... he uses their strength against them.

Leon sensed Krauser as soon as he entered the room where Krauser was expecting him. Before Krauser could even try to sneak up on him, Leon sensed him.

Both Leon and Chris are tactical geniuses by their own right.

@alessandro_souzamarques:

Batman will just pick Chris up first....

sneak up from above, grab him and suffocate him with chloroform or something much more potent or like hundred thousands volts of taser

Then Bats will just use Chris against Leon...

@jashro44:

Batmans armour can probably tank that. There durability wont help against gas pellets or freeze pellets.

Batmans armour these days is completely bullet proof anyways.

Well that's never been very clearly established, really every writer and also every reader has their own opinion on how heavily armored Batman is. I can concede that if we're talking about a bulked out batsuit that bullets just deflect off of without making Bruce budge, then Batman probably has the advantage. However on the same token, I think you can admit that this scenario becomes a lot more debatable if the batsuit is only bullet resistant like in some interpretations, where Batman can get shot but it still deals damage and hurts like hell. Then, with Chris and Leon's extremely high caliber firepower, it just becomes that much more dangerous. Then, the closer Batman gets, the more dangerous it becomes for him because it's harder to dodge bullets at closer range. Just look at Lickers, it's almost impossible to tag these things because they're so agile and move nearly faster than the bullet itself. You can see Leon emptying entire clips into one during this battle here, and the thing just weaves through it all.

However, since Leon is extremely smart, he was able to adapt to that ability and use his gunfire to maneuver the Licker into the air right over his head instead where he was fast enough to tag it multiple times.

That's tactical shooting, and a relatively minor example of it. Also important is Leon's sheer speed, again the closer Batman gets the harder it becomes to dodge, because Leon is able to headshot Lickers almost effortlessly when they get into point blank range.

Chris is the same way. He fought Lickers in hordes during RE5, although that's all gameplay, which is unfortunate. However there is a scene in Marhawa Desire (a god awful manga tie in to RE6 that might even be worse than the game itself) where Chris and Piers are surrounded by BOWs and Chris has no ammo left, so Piers throws him a clip, and Chris catches it behind his head without even looking then senses a Licker approaching, and he's fast enough to reload, cock, turn around, and shoot into the Licker's brain using just a pistol before it can even move an inch.

Gallery

There's even a scene in the manga where Chris is alone and surrounded by dozens of BOWs, and we see him fighting and shooting them all for a couple pages, then once they're all dead he casually walks out and tells everybody it's finished, and they're all shocked and don't understand how he could have done it so quickly. However the story is literally so bad that I can't even muster up the motivation to go through it and find the scans, so just take this feat with a grain of salt. Plus RE6 proved that they're both completely on par with one another not only in hand-to-hand combat, but also in the quickdraw.

So anyway while Batman might be slick enough to dodge bullets at a distance, he needs to close the distance eventually, which is a problem since the accuracy of his opponent's increases with every inch closer he gets.

That said I'm not gonna underestimate Batman here. In a situation like this, it doesn't take the world's greatest detective to try a different tactic. He has plenty of equipment and gadgets that can be used as a distraction to get in closer, HOWEVER, let's also not undermine Chris and Leon's tactical skills. Thinking on their feet is what they both specialize in, the fact that they are both survivors of multiple outbreaks, each of which usually claim tens of thousands of victims should give you an idea of how skilled they really are. When Leon was still a rookie cop, his very first day on the force was the Raccoon City outbreak, and out of the 300,000+ residents, he and less than a dozen other people actually escaped. Again, he knows how to think on his feet, how to quickly formulate a basic strategy to escape difficult situations, and how to work with limited supplies. Hell, in the CVX novel Chris lost his sidepack and had to go through the entirety of the Rockfort Island segment with only three grenades. Highlights include killing the Gulp Worm (a gigantic mutated earth worm) by anticipating its movements from underneath the ground and tricking it into swallowing a grenade instead of him, and sensing a Sweeper (Hunter with poison talons) planning to ambush him from behind a wall through pure instinct and trapping it with a grenade. As for Leon, when he was still just a rookie cop, his very first day on the force was the Raccoon City outbreak. Out of the town's 300,000+ residents, he and less than a dozen other people were the only one's to escape. Even after getting shot through the chest and watching the love of his life die in his arms, and with almost no supplies left and the facility he was trapped in about to self destruct in less than 2 minutes, he was able to battle William Birkin (one of the most powerful creatures in the whole series. Birkin was nearly immortal and constantly adapting, when Leon would attack its eyes, its only weakness, it would mutate so that it no longer had eyes) and successfully escape. Ada's Report on Leon talks about the extent of his tactical skills.

Ada didn't do a report on Chris (he wasn't in RE4) but his BSAA File in RE5 says pretty much the same thing. He's succeeded in more missions for the BSAA than any other agent in the entire organization, and he's been captain of a Special Operation unit for years now, which is saying a lot since his unit is regularly tasked with infiltrating a foreign hotspot or warzone, and just winning. No other goal, his superiors just expect him to win the war. Let's not forget that he beat Albert Wesker by being tactical and using what limited options he had the most effectively they could have been used, that's nuff said right there.

So just the fact that Batman is very intelligent and has gadgets alone isn't enough to prove he can overcome all the disadvantages against him simply through tactics, his opponents are quick thinkers as well and extremely adaptable, plus there's two of them.

Physically I think Chris is stronger than Batman but slower, and Leon is faster than Batman but weaker. So even close quarters isn't a clear cut victory.

Also about that Black Panther feat, very very different from Chris's showing. The boulder Black Panther pushed was precariously perched right over the ledge and standing on a declining bottom, it wasn't balanced or secure at all, Black Panther just had to knock it over. Chris's boulder was not only significantly larger, but he had to actually roll it. Plus don't you think that Black Panther is stronger than Batman anyway? So if you're comparing him to Chris than my point about Chris being stronger would stand.

@alessandro_souzamarques: And let's not forget about Chris in the midst of all this Leon. He might have way less feats because he doesn't have any of the CGI movies, but he does have Code Veronica to his advantage, plus he fought Wesker. He's dodged Alexia's blood and has an instance of tagging or dodging Wesker for every encounter they've had, so he's not slow.

@nickzambuto said:

Yeah, I know that. Chris is at least just as fast, if not faster than Batman. It's easier(but still troublesome) to prove Leon superiority to other people on Comic Vine. Especially since they mistakingly think Cassandra Cain is as fast as Wesker, or even faster. Hopefully, I'll have a debate with @bat_girl_cc in an appropriate thread that'll change their way of thinking.

You think they'd separate from each other? They smarter than that.

Not that it'd be so easy to sneak up on Chris either. Chris is stealthy enough to play hide'n seek with Wesker for whole 7 minutes.

I've honestly never seen Wesker performing one single speed-feat, that Cass hasn't replycated, or that Cass couldn't replycate...but you, and/or anyone else are welcome to show me one, if such feat indeed exist's.

@alessandro_souzamarques:

I've said it before, i understand (i've exeprienced the same, too) when we are playing video-games, the character's look really impressive and super-human, and all, but when we compare them to comic-book charcaters, they don't really seem all that special, specially if we compare them to high-end-streets.

This happens, because while most video-game characters are indeed super-human (by real-life standards) they are not super-human by comic-book-standards...you see, what many people don't realize, is that comic-book-human >>>>> real-life-human, and honestly, it kinda of has to be that way...otherwise, it would be very hard, for a writter to tell a proper super-hero-story, even if its about street-levelers.

Actually, the problem is those feats you showed for Cass in another thread to prove she as fast as Wesker.

Well...that's not the case here.

What are you basing this on? No medium automatically has better feats than another, it's all about individual stories.

I've said it before, i understand (i've exeprienced the same, too) when we are reading comic books, the character's look really impressive and super-human, and all, but when we compare them to video game charcaters, they don't really seem all that special, specially if we compare them to high-end-streets.

This happens, because while most comic book characters are indeed super-human (by real-life standards) they are not super-human by video-game-standards...you see, what many people don't realize, is that video-game-human >>>>> real-life-human, and honestly, it kinda of has to be that way...otherwise, it would be very hard, for a writter to tell a proper super-hero-story, even if its about street-levelers.

It works both ways.

@nickzambuto: @alessandro_souzamarques: I don't think I have time to address everything you guys said so let me address the 2 things I think should be addressed:

I'll start with @alessandro_souzamarques:

Doesn't matter if those guys aims were accurate or not. Leon clearly looked at all those bullets flying through the air, lowered his weapon, turned around, took 1 or 2 quick and short steps, and jumped before they(bullets) could even reach the area where he was standing. Those bullets only started passing near him and Helena when they're already jumping. That's actually better than what most comic book bullet timers do when dodging bullets(Batman included) which is pulling their head out of the bullet's path or moving a single part of their body to react to a bullet.

Here is the video so you can judge it by yourself.

It does matter. If the shooter were accurate the bullet would have hit because the bullets (the first few shots) did reach where they were aimed before Leon got out of the way. You screen shot actually shows this:

If the guys shooting the bullet were more accurate, than Leon would have got hit. At least thats what it looks like here. If you are saying Leon can perceive bullets thats fine but keep in mind there is a difference between perceiving and dodging bullets. I once talked to a friend of mine in the military who told me IIRC (I'd need to double check) that its possible to train your perceptions in real life to see a bullet in flight, but it isn't possible to dodge the actual bullet.

I'm not saying Leon is slow but I don't think he has any true bullet time feats. Whether or not his other feats make him a bullet timer I'll leave for you guys to all debate over.

Now @nickzambuto

Also about that Black Panther feat, very very different from Chris's showing. The boulder Black Panther pushed was precariously perched right over the ledge and standing on a declining bottom, it wasn't balanced or secure at all, Black Panther just had to knock it over. Chris's boulder was not only significantly larger, but he had to actually roll it. Plus don't you think that Black Panther is stronger than Batman anyway? So if you're comparing him to Chris than my point about Chris being stronger would stand.

Its not different and it looks to be about the same size to me. Chris' boulder was also on a ledge and its more round so its actually possible to roll. I'm not sure what makes you say he had to roll it, he pushed it an inch and it rolled the rest of the way, gravity took care of the rest:

I mean black panthers boulder was heavy enough to topple Ymir who is one of thors stronger villains IIRC....Even in that same issue Vision had to phase out of Ymirs grip to escape and Vision is at least a 90 tonner if we go by hand books (I know vision has held his own with silver surfer in the past...All though Norrin is a bit of a jobber). All though all of this is besides the point. I don't have an issue with Chris being stronger than batman, my issue is you said it was fanboy talk to say that Chris' boulder feat was better than batman cracking RPG proof glass but the whole point of that showing was that for batman to crack that glass he would need to hit with the force of an RPG (As I said I don't believe that showing is consistent with batmans average but its still easily better than the boulder feat).

@jashro44 said:

It does matter. If the shooter were accurate the bullet would have hit because the bullets (the first few shots) did reach where they were aimed before Leon got out of the way. You screen shot actually shows this:

If the guys shooting the bullet were more accurate, than Leon would have got hit. At least thats what it looks like here. If you are saying Leon can perceive bullets thats fine but keep in mind there is a difference between perceiving and dodging bullets. I once talked to a friend of mine in the military who told me IIRC (I'd need to double check) that its possible to train your perceptions in real life to see a bullet in flight, but it isn't possible to dodge the actual bullet.

I'm not saying Leon is slow but I don't think he has any true bullet time feats. Whether or not his other feats make him a bullet timer I'll leave for you guys to all debate over.

Actually it doesn't. Those first two bullets did hit the ground, but not only was that piece of the ground closer to the shooters than Leon's body, them also hit the ground when he was already almost completely in air with only his his toes from the left foot were touching. He was essentially in the and had finished the act of jumping. You're also forgetting that fact he only started moving after dozens of bullets were fired, not just two bullets. He didn't just perceive those bullets. Again he lowered his weapon, turned around, took one quick step before jumping. So, either they're accurate or not, they wouldn't hit him.

Take another look at these screenshots:

In the first one you can see the background had a lot of boxes. No sign of the door where Leon started jumping in front of and where those two bullets hit the ground.

Not only this is a bullet timer feat, but it's also better than most bullet timing showed in comic book, inclusive Batman's bullet timing feats. Because lowering your weapon, turning around, taking a step, and jumping before dozens of bullets could reach for the place you're standing >>>> pulling your head out of the bullet's path, or throwing your shoulder behind your body to dodge a bullet, or simply moving one limb to react to a bullet.

@alessandro_souzamarques: All Leon did was lower his weapon and jump. We see him jumping as the bullets in front of him hit the ground. Lowering your weapon isn't much of a movement and its not enough to justify being a bullet timer and neither is turning around....Lowering your weapon and turning around isn't as impressive as moving your head out of the path of a sniper bullet. Leon didn't move out of the path of the bullet before the bullet hit where it was heading; thats why it isn't a bullet timing feat. He noticed the bullet was heading for him and began to move but that still isn't true bullet timing.

Batman.

Better Fighter, can easily pressure point them both. Neither Leon or Chris can keep up with him in combat.

Better Gadgets, Neither Leon or Chris have a defense for Batman's cryo pellets, sonics, explosives or anesthetic gas. And Batman can hit him with them with his gadgets he a master marksman as well.

Better Armor, Batman's armor is a direct defense against any and everything Leon or Chris could throw at him. Plus it has gadgets built into it, such as K.O. Gas built into it and electrictity to deliver a shock.

Better Physical's, aside from the RE5 Bolder Chris moved, Batman has better reaction time, is faster, and somewhat stronger.

Except for the bolder Chris moved in RE5, neither Chris or Leon haven't done anything that Batman can't replicate.

Make it H2H only and this is a fight.

Batman has taken out tougher baddies.

Redfield solos.

Lowering your weapon, and turning around, and taking a step forward, then jumping is more than enough movement to justify he being a bullet timer, much more than just moving your head to the side. He didn't just lowered his weapon or turned around. He did both and more, he jumped. If that isn't enough movement to be considered bullet timer, then Batman is far from being a bullet timer.

You're still ignoring the fact that not only two bullets, but DOZENS of them were fired before he even thought about moving. There's not even a sign of them until they're passing near him when he was already in the air. All it takes is a little logical reasoning to see that Leon reacted and moved before those bullets could reach for him and Helena.

You can even see one of those bullets passing right behind Leon:

Leon doing everything he did before dozens of bullets could reach for the place where he was standing is actually more impressive than Batman simply pulling his head to the side to dodge a sniper bullet from a pretty long distance. Batman barely had to move his body, moving a small part of it.

Actually, after taking look at the dialogue, it seems the shooter was aiming at Freeze("but the shooter is too good" being a good evidence, meaning the shooter didn't miss his target) and narration said the bullet was too fast for Bruce. Bruce tried to save Freeze, but wasn't fast enough, and then he threw three bat-rangs at the sniper. I don't think he dodged the bullet since it wasn't meant for him. Again, the narrator said the bullet was too fast for him.

Leon is not a bullet timer.. period.

I just proved he's.

Batman wrecks

@alessandro_souzamarques: sure he is, so by your logic anyone that jumps out of the way of gunfire and just happens to not get hit by sheer luck is a bullet timer.

I guess there bullet timers in RL.

I guess that also makes his partner a bullet timer also, as she also jumped out the way and did not get hit.

@jestersmiles said:

@alessandro_souzamarques: sure he is, so by your logic anyone that jumps out of the way of gunfire and just happens to not get hit by sheer luck is a bullet timer.

I guess there bullet timers in RL.

I guess that also makes his partner a bullet timer also, as she also jumped out the way and did not get hit.

Ignoring my arguments isn't going to help your case. And yes she is.

@alessandro_souzamarques:

Reaching for straws is not making an argument , it called reaching for straws.

It's called evidence.

But whatever, I won't reply to you anymore.

@alessandro_souzamarques:

No it called mental gymnastic,and I really don't care that you don't respond to me. The day still goes on the same for me. The only one you convincing that Leon and now Helena (LOL) are bullet timers is yourself and nickzambuto. Have fun with that.

@jashro44: I see what you're saying but actually Leon didn't immediately dive when the bullets were fired, he turned and was able to take a step forward then dive, so if the bullets were on point with where he originally was, they would have still missed as he had taken the step forward and gotten halfway through his dive by the time they reached that spot. It's easier to see in motion.

Do you disagree with that? If Leon took a step to the side after the bullets were fired, then he was faster than the bullet and AKA a bullet timer.

Leon also admits that he can dodge bullets in this scene.

@nickzambuto: I lol'd at the Leon/Ingrid dialogue there. Leon don't got time for shopping! Isn't the dialogue changed cause it's a gag thing? So...is Leon saying what he is saying about dodging bullets true?

It was just a joke :P

@nickzambuto: Ah. :P Well I can't tell with you, considering you mentioned/showed previous evidence, so didn't know if ya were using it as such too, disregarding the dialogue. /Shrug

@jashro44: Like Nick said, Leon moved from where he was standing before those two bullets you're talking about reached that spot. He turned around, took a step and jumped. If those bullets were aimed to his head or chest it would have missed it's target.

Remember there is more to the feat than those two bullets.

I'm pretty sure Bruce can handle these two, just not as easily as he handles the usual Gotham fodder.

So Leon and Chris are only a bit above fodder?

Can you prove it?

@nickzambuto: Definitely not, unless i'm missing something. They're both easily street level guys, but i guess you'd call Batman a high-tier street leveler, as he's above Leon and Chris in many physical ways and in overall skill. Gear plays a big part here, too. Honestly if this was a fist fight, or CQC, with only knives or something, it'd be a lot closer, but seeing as they have standard gear in this fight i think Bruce has the advantage. He's got everything from smoke pellets and explosives to grapnels and electric shockers, plus his body armour is ridiculously durable and his cape has more than one use, whereas the standard gear of Leon and Chris seems to be a handgun, a knife, possibly another, larger gun and a kevlar vest. I do think Bruce wins, but basically not easily.

team RE stomps

Really now? I see it the complete opposite, gear is Leon and Chris's advantage and Batman can only win in martial arts. But I understand your reasoning and respect your opinion.

@alessandro_souzamarques: @nickzambuto: I disagree with what you guys said but I don't have time to debate these days I think...Sorry but I'll have to stop.

Team for sure.

Say mw how batman could handle Ustanal? Say me how Batman could Fight against the Giant Monster Chris fought with Pierce and against the final boss? How against Nemesis? Tyrant? Or Zombies? Or hunters? Or Javos? Or or or or.

Batman is good but he would get wrecked by Christiano Redfield and Leonardo Eso del Kentucky.

Batman takes this by a mile , batman as far as l know is completely bullet proof,batman: Basic suit-

Kevlar thread and carbon nanotube fibers-advanced flexible armor plating made from Carbon composites and lightweight metal polymer, they might as well throw those pee shooters away they aren't gonna do anything to bats , batman has to many gadgets and is a much better fighter he solos both of them with ease

Batman makes them look like fools. Arkham bat would superwreck