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#1 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

vs

Tony Daniel's Detective Comics

New 52 versions

Random encounter.No prep,but both know each others skills and abilities.

Standart equipment for both

Battle at Gotham City

#2 Posted by Saren (25674 posts) - - Show Bio

Shiva already beat Batman in Nightwing #0 by hitting him with a poisoned shuriken (which I guess falls under standard equipment) and then stomping him and Dick.

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#3 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Shiva already beat Batman in Nightwing #0 by hitting him with a poisoned shuriken (which I guess falls under standard equipment) and then stomping him and Dick.

Batman now knows of her shurikens.

Please read OP.

All opinions are accepted as soon as there are good arguements supporting them.

You need to give reasons.

Thank you for your time:)

#4 Posted by beatboks1 (7223 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@CitizenBane said:

Shiva already beat Batman in Nightwing #0 by hitting him with a poisoned shuriken (which I guess falls under standard equipment) and then stomping him and Dick.

Batman now knows of her shurikens.

Please read OP.

All opinions are accepted as soon as there are good arguements supporting them.

WTF he sites an instance where she beat Batman AND help and your reply is he needs an argument to support it. What do you call what he said ???

#5 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@Stronger said:

@CitizenBane said:

Shiva already beat Batman in Nightwing #0 by hitting him with a poisoned shuriken (which I guess falls under standard equipment) and then stomping him and Dick.

Batman now knows of her shurikens.

Please read OP.

All opinions are accepted as soon as there are good arguements supporting them.

WTF he sites an instance where she beat Batman AND help and your reply is he needs an argument to support it. What do you call what he said ???

Please read the OP again.I state that both know each others equipment,abilities and skills.

Batman knows about Shiva's equipment now.So does Shiva.

#6 Posted by Alice_Summers (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

does batman still have his gadgets like cryp bombs in the new 52?

I think if he uses them wisely he can win.

Lady Shiva should be a better fighter, but not have as good equipment as batman.

#7 Posted by Batman1234 (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins without trouble. to fast, to agile, to smart...etc

Batman 9/10

#8 Posted by Om4zd (920 posts) - - Show Bio

^^ shock XD

Shiva could win IMO

#9 Posted by BigCimmerian (8305 posts) - - Show Bio

If Batman engage her H2H he might lose, but if he uses his gadgets then he stomps.

#10 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is too much of a strategic genius to try to face Shiva in a straight up hand to hand fight. Even though he will do more damage with his hit due to his strength which is far greatly superior in comparison to Shiva. Shiva seems to be better trained, however, Batman is far superior to her with his physical stats. That being said, Batman wins due to the fact that he most likely wouldn't engage her in a straight up fight, eve thought he would have a good chance even if he did.

#11 Posted by entropy_aegis (15317 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@Stronger said:

@CitizenBane said:

Shiva already beat Batman in Nightwing #0 by hitting him with a poisoned shuriken (which I guess falls under standard equipment) and then stomping him and Dick.

Batman now knows of her shurikens.

Please read OP.

All opinions are accepted as soon as there are good arguements supporting them.

WTF he sites an instance where she beat Batman AND help and your reply is he needs an argument to support it. What do you call what he said ???

Well to be fair Batman was fighting Shiva for the first time there and she's using weapons now,but that fight was'nt really much of a fight.

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#12 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@CalebHara said:

Batman is too much of a strategic genius to try to face Shiva in a straight up hand to hand fight. Even though he will do more damage with his hit due to his strength which is far greatly superior in comparison to Shiva. Shiva seems to be better trained, however, Batman is far superior to her with his physical stats. That being said, Batman wins due to the fact that he most likely wouldn't engage her in a straight up fight, eve thought he would have a good chance even if he did.

I believe Batman would do exactly the opposite.

In all their previous encounters,Batman proved to be more than enough for her and he didn't use gadgets.

In DCnU,she seems to rely pretty much on her armory.Her only h2h feat is stomping Robin(Grayson).I honestly believe Batman can take her straight up unarmed combat.Not easy,but he can.Her weapons are the biggest threat but since Batman knows about them he can avoid them.

I am giving this to Batman 7/10.

#13 Posted by Killer_of_trolls (1852 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman1234 said:

Batman wins without trouble. to fast, to agile, to smart...etc

Batman 9/10

9 is a bit of exaggeration since she already beat him and NW at teh same time. If your joking then never mind.

#14 Posted by cloudzackvincent (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killer_of_trolls said:

@Batman1234 said:

Batman wins without trouble. to fast, to agile, to smart...etc

Batman 9/10

9 is a bit of exaggeration since she already beat him and NW at teh same time. If your joking then never mind.

QFT

#15 Posted by Sideslash (5907 posts) - - Show Bio

Stalemate or Shiva just about edges it.

#16 Posted by Rick_Grayson (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman 1 shot her in Batman / Superman Public Enemies.
 
Can't find full scans but IIRC he basically blocks a few of her attacks then KO's her with this punch.
 

#17 Posted by Emilie_Aensland (414 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rick_Grayson: These are the New 52 versions in the OP. Not to mention that entire run is suspect. Shiva may, or may not have been under Gorilla Grodds mind control at the time. This is also the same arc in which Batman and Superman easily took a who's who list of characters. Everyone in that arc got jobbed.

#18 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Abacha_Cavat said:

@Rick_Grayson: These are the New 52 versions in the OP. Not to mention that entire run is suspect. Shiva may, or may not have been under Gorilla Grodds mind control at the time. This is also the same arc in which Batman and Superman easily took a who's who list of characters. Everyone in that arc got jobbed.

First of all,Batman never one-shotted Shiva.He beat her after a really good fight.

Second,it makes no difference if she was in Grodds control or not,since it her fighting skills vs Batman's.Batman won clearly that match.

Third,THIS FIGHT IS STANDART EQUIPMENT.Which means,Shiva and Batman have their gadgets.

#19 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Shiva.

#20 Edited by Emilie_Aensland (414 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

First of all,Batman never one-shotted Shiva.He beat her after a really good fight.

First of all, I never said anything about a "One-Shot." Also, not sure why the attitude is necessary but meh lol. If you think that was a really good fight then you really should read some more comics. That fight was ridiculous and in no way close to any previous, or post, showings for Shiva vs Batman.

@Stronger said:

Second,it makes no difference if she was in Grodds control or not,since it her fighting skills vs Batman's.Batman won clearly that match.

Of course it does. Do you play video games? If I make a character with awesome fighting skills tailored to the way I like to play and my own mind set, and hand the controller to you, would you be as effective with that character as I would? No. Same principle. Grodd's not a martial artist so how would he know what strikes to use when? When to dodge, at what angle, with how much extension. Martial Arts is every bit about the mind as it is the physical. So dont come at me with some weak line about fighting skills vs fighting skills. Aaaaand, lets not forget I didnt say jack about who won or lost. All I did was put that weak scan in context.

@Stronger said:

Third,THIS FIGHT IS STANDART EQUIPMENT.Which means,Shiva and Batman have their gadgets.

Hahaha dude, you need sit down somewhere grab a coke and a smile. I didnt say anything about equipment or gadgets or who would even win. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point.

#21 Posted by darktiger (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

Probably Shiva.

agreed

#22 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Abacha_Cavat said:

@Stronger said:

First of all,Batman never one-shotted Shiva.He beat her after a really good fight.

First of all, I never said anything about a "One-Shot." Also, not sure why the attitude is necessary but meh lol. If you think that was a really good fight then you really should read some more comics. That fight was ridiculous and in no way close to any previous, or post, showings for Shiva vs Batman.

@Stronger said:

Second,it makes no difference if she was in Grodds control or not,since it her fighting skills vs Batman's.Batman won clearly that match.

Of course it does. Do you play video games? If I make a character with awesome fighting skills tailored to the way I like to play and my own mind set, and hand the controller to you, would you be as effective with that character as I would? No. Same principle. Grodd's not a martial artist so how would he know what strikes to use when? When to dodge, at what angle, with how much extension. Martial Arts is every bit about the mind as it is the physical. So dont come at me with some weak line about fighting skills vs fighting skills. Aaaaand, lets not forget I didnt say jack about who won or lost. All I did was put that weak scan in context.

@Stronger said:

Third,THIS FIGHT IS STANDART EQUIPMENT.Which means,Shiva and Batman have their gadgets.

Hahaha dude, you need sit down somewhere grab a coke and a smile. I didnt say anything about equipment or gadgets or who would even win. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point.

1)Not talking to you.I was talking to the guy who said Batman one-shotted Shiva.BTW,Shiva gave Batman a fight.And I have read more Batman comics than you will ever.

2)Irrelevant(first sentence).Why do you think Grodd picked Shiva for mind controlling?For her amazing superstrength or for her excellent marksmanship?No,he picked her for her fighting skills,only to take down Batman.Also Grodd isn't a martial artist,as you said.Any fool can see Shiva's hits are martial arts techniques.So it doesn't matter if she was mind controlled or not.She would still lose.

I know you didn't say anything about who won and it was nice of you putting that scan out of context.

3)First of all,I don't like the way you speak to me.We are not friends and if you continue this it won't end well.Mostly for you.Thank you for your attention.

Now,I was again refering to the guy who said the one shot thing.I am really sorry if you were insulted,anyway.

#23 Edited by _Marianne_ (176 posts) - - Show Bio

Had to switch accounts, reached the post limit.

@Stronger said:

1)Not talking to you.I was talking to the guy who said Batman one-shotted Shiva.BTW,Shiva gave Batman a fight.And I have read more Batman comics than you will ever.

Then try quoting the right guy next time ;) If that were true we wouldnt even be debating that scan. You'd already have enough sense to know its fuggazy, but since you dont, I doubt you have.

@Stronger said:

2)Irrelevant(first sentence).Why do you think Grodd picked Shiva for mind controlling?For her amazing superstrength or for her excellent marksmanship?No,he picked her for her fighting skills,only to take down Batman.Also Grodd isn't a martial artist,as you said.Any fool can see Shiva's hits are martial arts techniques.So it doesn't matter if she was mind controlled or not.She would still lose.

Saying something is irrelevant does not make it true lol. Of course he picked her for her skill, who said she wasnt using skill or martial arts techniques? I'm saying that someone with no martial arts skill, controlling someone who has martial arts skill, is not the same as if that person (you know, the one who actually understands the entire philosophy of her carefully crafted style) were able to think for themselves. You're right, lets ignore everything Batman's ever said about Shiva as well as the fact that he's never beaten (straight up) except the one time she was mind controlled. I'm sure it was just a coincidence :)

@Stronger said:

I know you didn't say anything about who won and it was nice of you putting that scan out of context.

hahaha out of context? You mean it wasnt suggested that she was mind controlled? Did you actually read the comic or just look at the pretty art?

@Stronger said:

3)First of all,I don't like the way you speak to me.We are not friends and if you continue this it won't end well.Mostly for you.Thank you for your attention.

Now,I was again refering to the guy who said the one shot thing.I am really sorry if you were insulted,anyway.

Then stop responding to my posts. Especially if you cant articulate yourself without putting on the internet tough guy hat. Just a suggestion but since you created the OP as using the New 52 versions it would probably make sense to focus on those feats instead of clinging to a scan that is widely dismissed by most people.

#24 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Paper_Monkey said:

Had to switch accounts, reached the post limit.

@Stronger said:

1)Not talking to you.I was talking to the guy who said Batman one-shotted Shiva.BTW,Shiva gave Batman a fight.And I have read more Batman comics than you will ever.

Then try quoting the right guy next time ;) If that were true we wouldnt even be debating that scan. You'd already have enough sense to know its fuggazy, but since you dont, I doubt you have.

@Stronger said:

2)Irrelevant(first sentence).Why do you think Grodd picked Shiva for mind controlling?For her amazing superstrength or for her excellent marksmanship?No,he picked her for her fighting skills,only to take down Batman.Also Grodd isn't a martial artist,as you said.Any fool can see Shiva's hits are martial arts techniques.So it doesn't matter if she was mind controlled or not.She would still lose.

Saying something is irrelevant does not make it true lol. Of course he picked her for her skill, who said she wasnt using skill or martial arts techniques? I'm saying that someone with no martial arts skill, controlling someone who has martial arts skill, is not the same as if that person (you know, the one who actually understands the entire philosophy of her carefully crafted style) were able to think for themselves. You're right, lets ignore everything Batman's ever said about Shiva as well as the fact that he's never beaten (straight up) except the one time she was mind controlled. I'm sure it was just a coincidence :)

@Stronger said:

I know you didn't say anything about who won and it was nice of you putting that scan out of context.

hahaha out of context? You mean it wasnt suggested that she was mind controlled? Did you actually read the comic or just look at the pretty art?

@Stronger said:

3)First of all,I don't like the way you speak to me.We are not friends and if you continue this it won't end well.Mostly for you.Thank you for your attention.

Now,I was again refering to the guy who said the one shot thing.I am really sorry if you were insulted,anyway.

Then stop responding to my posts. Especially if you cant articulate yourself with putting on the internet tough guy hat. Just a suggestion but since you created the OP as using the New 52 versions it would probably make sense to focus on those feats instead of clinging to a scan that is widely dismissed by most people.

I suppose you are the same guy who I wrongly quoted.

1)Please do not make me post the whole fight.At the begining Shiva manages to get some good hits.

2)Your first arguement about the video game was completely irrelevant.

Grodd only controlled her consiousness and guided her to her target.Not the way she fought.And Batman once said,Wonder Woman is the best melee fighter in the world.Not true.He also said Grayson has surpassed him.Also untrue.Black Panther said Shang Chi is the best fighter in MU.Also not true.You see,words are sometimes different from truth.

All previous Batman and Shiva fights ended either in a stalemate or someone interrupted them(like Jason Todd).

3)She was mind controlled,in a way.I read the comic.Do you actually know how to read?

4)I am really trying to understand how many pounds of stupidity can a single human being weight?I talked to you politely.I didn't insult you.I said that your behaviour annoys me in a polite and peaceful way,but you kept mocking and insulting me.I said I made a mistake ok?

#25 Posted by darktiger (4539 posts) - - Show Bio

don't know if shiva is fighting nightwing then batman might could beat her

#26 Edited by _Marianne_ (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

I suppose you are the same guy who I wrongly quoted.

1)Please do not make me post the whole fight.At the begining Shiva manages to get some good hits.

If you're not going to pay attention to my posts then why respond? Did I say she didnt land any shots? Nope. So is that suppose to be a threat? While you're at it post the major brawl before that when Batman beats the likes of Black Lightning and Major Force. Really showcase the legitimacy of that arc ;)

@Stronger said:

2)Your first arguement about the video game was completely irrelevant.

It was an analogy. Sorry if it left ya behind.

@Stronger said:

Grodd only controlled her consiousness and guided her to her target.Not the way she fought.

Hahahah how can you do one and not the other? Does Shiva not think when she fights or something? He controls her consciousness but not the way she fights doesnt make sense.

@Stronger said:

And Batman once said,Wonder Woman is the best melee fighter in the world.Not true.He also said Grayson has surpassed him.Also untrue.Black Panther said Shang Chi is the best fighter in MU.Also not true.You see,words are sometimes different from truth.

You're right, sometimes they are. Luckily, unlike Shang Chi, Shiva has on panel feats to help support Batman's opinion. Same with Wonder Woman. She is the best "melee" fighter. Not to mention they've fought twice before. Once was a draw (their first ever meeting), and the second was a good fight that went back and forth until Robin (Jason Todd) sucker punched Shiva from behind. So they've fought three times in all, twice were close competitive matches and then we have the third fugazzy fight that nobody outside of Batman fanboys respect.

@Stronger said:

All previous Batman and Shiva fights ended either in a stalemate or someone interrupted them(like Jason Todd).

Preciously. So three fights, two stalemates, and one unexplainable beat down....hmmmmm, one of these things is not like the oooooother, one of these does not belooooong lol

@Stronger said:

3)She was mind controlled,in a way.I read the comic.Do you actually know how to read?

No actually I'm just looking at the screen and randomly mashing on the keyboard hoping my dismantlement of your weak argument looks as good on that side as it does on mine :)

@Stronger said:

4)I am really trying to understand how many pounds of stupidity can a single human being weight?I talked to you politely.I didn't insult you.I said that your behaviour annoys me in a polite and peaceful way,but you kept mocking and insulting me.I said I made a mistake ok?

Do you often debate with stupid people? That doesnt seem to intelligent. You're smart, you should know better lol

#27 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Paper_Monkey said:

@Stronger said:

I suppose you are the same guy who I wrongly quoted.

1)Please do not make me post the whole fight.At the begining Shiva manages to get some good hits.

If you're not going to pay attention to my posts then why respond? Did I say she didnt land any shots? Nope. So is that suppose to be a threat? While you're at it post the major brawl before that when Batman beats the likes of Black Lightning and Major Force. Really showcase the legitimacy of that arc ;)

@Stronger said:

2)Your first arguement about the video game was completely irrelevant.

It was an analogy. Sorry if it left ya behind.

@Stronger said:

Grodd only controlled her consiousness and guided her to her target.Not the way she fought.

Hahahah how can you do one and not the other? Does Shiva not think when she fights or something? He controls her consciousness but not the way she fights doesnt make sense.

@Stronger said:

And Batman once said,Wonder Woman is the best melee fighter in the world.Not true.He also said Grayson has surpassed him.Also untrue.Black Panther said Shang Chi is the best fighter in MU.Also not true.You see,words are sometimes different from truth.

You're right, sometimes they are. Luckily, unlike Shang Chi, Shiva has on panel feats to help support Batman's opinion. Same with Wonder Woman. She is the best "melee" fighter. Not to mention they've fought twice before. Once was a draw (their first ever meeting), and the second was a good fight that went back and forth until Robin (Jason Todd) sucker punched Shiva from behind. So they've fought three times in all, twice were close competitive matches and then we have the third fugazzy fight that nobody outside of Batman fanboys respect.

@Stronger said:

All previous Batman and Shiva fights ended either in a stalemate or someone interrupted them(like Jason Todd).

Preciously. So three fights, two stalemates, and one unexplainable beat down....hmmmmm, one of these things is not like the oooooother, one of these does not belooooong lol

@Stronger said:

3)She was mind controlled,in a way.I read the comic.Do you actually know how to read?

No actually I'm just looking at the screen and randomly mashing on the keyboard hoping my dismantlement of your weak argument looks as good on that side as it does on mine :)

@Stronger said:

4)I am really trying to understand how many pounds of stupidity can a single human being weight?I talked to you politely.I didn't insult you.I said that your behaviour annoys me in a polite and peaceful way,but you kept mocking and insulting me.I said I made a mistake ok?

Do you often debate with stupid people? That doesnt seem to intelligent. You're smart, you should know better lol

1) If Shiva managed to land hits,then it is a good fight.It is not a stomp.

2)Your analogy was not relevant to what we are talking about.

3)Yeah right,Wonder Woman the best melee fighter in the world.I can name at least 5 better than her.(with or without powers)In the third battle Batman was also angry at Shiva because of the beating she gave to Catwoman.

4)You are acting like he f..... curbstomped her.Calm down......It was a match and there were some extra factors.

5)Answer this goddamn question please.....Why did he mindrape Shiva and not ......me for example?You said it's his fighting skills,although she uses martial arts hits.And especially Leopard Style Kung Fu.

6)I have debated with smarter people than you,thank you......And I am smart enough to have manners and not hiding behind excuses.

#28 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman. Shiva may have the edge in pure martial skill, but Batman is superior in almost everything else.

#29 Edited by _Marianne_ (176 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

1) If Shiva managed to land hits,then it is a good fight.It is not a stomp.

Wrong

@Stronger said:

2)Your analogy was not relevant to what we are talking about.

Wrong

@Stronger said:

3)Yeah right,Wonder Woman the best melee fighter in the world.I can name at least 5 better than her.(with or without powers)In the third battle Batman was also angry at Shiva because of the beating she gave to Catwoman.

You mean you can pull three names out of your ass cause you have no intention of backing up your claim with any substantial feats or actual facts right? Name em, prove it, or walk away dude. Oh noes Batman was angry. Batman was Loeb Forced is what he was lol

@Stronger said:

4)You are acting like he f..... curbstomped her.Calm down......It was a match and there were some extra factors.

He did. If you werent so blinded by your Batfanism you'd see it to. I'm calm, and I'm the one who brought up these extra factors remember hahaha you were the one trying to act as if it were some great fight and the measuring stick in which Shiva vs Batman should be based.

@Stronger said:

5)Answer this goddamn question please.....Why did he mindrape Shiva and not ......me for example?You said it's his fighting skills,although she uses martial arts hits.And especially Leopard Style Kung Fu.

No dude, I've answered this question three times now and you're still babbling on in a way that tells me you dont, cant, and wont, grasp what I'm saying. So you answer this, if it makes no difference who is controlling her mind during the fight then why didnt Grodd just pay her to fight Batman? Why did he need to control her mind in the first place? If it makes no difference then how come all of the sudden Shiva cant read Batman's moves and duck the super awesome Loeb Force knock out punch? How come Shiva's fast enough to tag Cassandra Cain but suddenly when Batman puts his foot down she's so slow he can just stand there and swat away every attack? And let me educate you real quick, Shiva wasnt using Leopard Style, her Leopard Paw is a single death strike she uses but theres no indication she tried to use it here. There was no mention of any technique, just artist illustrations of remedial strikes. Stop making sh!t up hoping you wont get called on it.

@Stronger said:

6)I have debated with smarter people than you,thank you......And I am smart enough to have manners and not hiding behind excuses.

This isnt even a debate. In my experience the person usually running around proclaiming how smart they are is the person dumb enough to believe it. I've made no excuses hahha you simply cant see past your Bat obsession to know that fight was nonsense and I've given you reasons and you given....nothing back. Its a waste of my time to be honest. In the same story Batman beat Black Lightning, Major Force, and Katana one right after the other and they did nothing but stand there but you wanna use that scan as proof of something? In that same story Superman beat Power-Girl, Captain Atom, John Stewart GL, and Starfire without so much as a breaking a sweat and they all just stood/floated there like the jobbers Loeb made them (and Shiva) out to be. Starfire got off one shot so by your definition it was an amazing fight ;) So yeah, lets hang on the fight by the guy who pumped the issue up with so much CIS/PIS that he should be sued for character assassination. Lets do that. Lets hang on the fight by the guy who offered us such gems as Red Hulk one shotting the Watcher o_O or lifts Thor's hammer because its zero gravity, or stealing Silver Surfers board after killing him.....yeah lets use that guys Batman/Shiva fight as indisputable proof. I'm out. Wasted enough time with you :) peace

#30 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Paper_Monkey said:

@Stronger said:

1) If Shiva managed to land hits,then it is a good fight.It is not a stomp.

Wrong

@Stronger said:

2)Your analogy was not relevant to what we are talking about.

Wrong

@Stronger said:

3)Yeah right,Wonder Woman the best melee fighter in the world.I can name at least 5 better than her.(with or without powers)In the third battle Batman was also angry at Shiva because of the beating she gave to Catwoman.

You mean you can pull three names out of your ass cause you have no intention of backing up your claim with any substantial feats or actual facts right? Name em, prove it, or walk away dude. Oh noes Batman was angry. Batman was Loeb Forced is what he was lol

@Stronger said:

4)You are acting like he f..... curbstomped her.Calm down......It was a match and there were some extra factors.

He did. If you werent so blinded by your Batfanism you'd see it to. I'm calm, and I'm the one who brought up these extra factors remember hahaha you were the one trying to act as if it were some great fight and the measuring stick in which Shiva vs Batman should be based.

@Stronger said:

5)Answer this goddamn question please.....Why did he mindrape Shiva and not ......me for example?You said it's his fighting skills,although she uses martial arts hits.And especially Leopard Style Kung Fu.

No dude, I've answered this question three times now and you're still babbling on in a way that tells me you dont, cant, and wont, grasp what I'm saying. So you answer this, if it makes no difference who is controlling her mind during the fight then why didnt Grodd just pay her to fight Batman? Why did he need to control her mind in the first place? If it makes no difference then how come all of the sudden Shiva cant read Batman's moves and duck the super awesome Loeb Force knock out punch? How come Shiva's fast enough to tag Cassandra Cain but suddenly when Batman puts his foot down she's so slow he can just stand there and swat away every attack? And let me educate you real quick, Shiva wasnt using Leopard Style, her Leopard Paw is a single death strike she uses but theres no indication she tried to use it here. There was no mention of any technique, just artist illustrations of remedial strikes. Stop making sh!t up hoping you wont get called on it.

@Stronger said:

6)I have debated with smarter people than you,thank you......And I am smart enough to have manners and not hiding behind excuses.

This isnt even a debate. In my experience the person usually running around proclaiming how smart there are is the person dumb enough to believe it. I've made no excuses hahha you simply cant see past your Bat obsession to know that fight was nonsense and I've given you reasons and you given....nothing back. Its a waste of my time to be honest. In the same story Batman beat Black Lightning, Major Force, and Katana one right after the other and they did nothing but stand there but you wanna use that scan as proof of something? In that same story Superman beat Power-Girl, Captain Atom, John Stewart GL, and Starfire without so much as a breaking a sweat and they all just stood/floated there like the jobbers Loeb made them (and Shiva) out to be. Starfire got off one shot so by your definition it was an amazing fight ;) So yeah, lets hang on the fight by the guy who pumped the issue up with so much CIS/PIS that he should be sued for character assassination. Lets do that. Lets hang on the fight by the guy who offered us such gems as Red Hulk one shotting the Watcher o_O or lifts Thor's hammer because its zero gravity, or stealing Silver Surfers board after killing him.....yeah lets use that guys Batman/Shiva fight as indisputable proof. I'm out. Wasted enough time with you :) peace

1) Explain

2) Explain

3)Your best mellee fighter got bitchslapped by Bizzaro.Also Karate Kid and Grayson are way better than Wonder Woman in mellee combat.She beats them due to superpowers.And those names where pulled from your momma's ass.I had to search for hours.It's really......big.

4)I see thing with realism.Shiva got a few good feats to him.I never said 'great fight'.I said 'good'. There is a big difference.

5)Because he didn't want to.Why spend money for something you can get for free? It's common f#cking sense!And like Shiva's body reading was always that strong......

You know sh!t about both martial arts and Lady Shiva.

First of all,Shiva's killing blow is the Leopard Blow.Not Paw.Anyway Batman knows this technique so it's useless.

Second,Did I mention anything about the Leopard Blow? No.....I said Leopard Style Kung Fu.Huge difference.

You obviously do not know anything about martial arts.

6)Batman can beat Black Lightning and Katana anyway.He never did beat Major Force.He just threw some green crap on his head.

Captain Atom's team (formed of heroes)was holding back .Fact.Only bad guys where morals off.

Have you read Loeb's Batman? The Hush storyline?It's pretty good.

Loeb's work at DC comics was good.

When Loeb moved to marvel he started doing crapwork.(hulk,rulk etc)

#31 Posted by RumbleMan_Exe (1543 posts) - - Show Bio

he makes her a sandwich

#32 Posted by Rick_Grayson (776 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol wow, i really kicked s*** off with that scan, huh?

#33 Posted by The_MVPs (84693 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rick_Grayson said:

Batman 1 shot her in Batman / Superman Public Enemies.

Can't find full scans but IIRC he basically blocks a few of her attacks then KO's her with this punch.

LOL f'n Loeb

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#34 Posted by Lvenger (19886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rick_Grayson: Is this the scan you meant? I've been tempted to post this in such a debate but I've come to realise that a combination of Shiva being mind controlled and the Loebforce means this feat is a PIS one. A fight between Batman and Shiva should be much closer than this.

#35 Posted by The_MVPs (84693 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: I agree, a fight between Shiva and Batman should look more like her fight against Conner Hawke in terms of length, brutality, and over all badassness

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#36 Posted by Rick_Grayson (776 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lvenger: Yeah that's the one, it was just the first Shiva v Bats fight I could remember.  Agreed it should be much closer, but at least it proves you don't p*ss off The Goddamn Batman lol.
#37 Posted by Lvenger (19886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: I read in a JLA Encyclopedia that Connor was supposed to be a better martial artist than Batman. An unsubstantiated claim suffice to say and anyway Shiva managed to beat him and almost killed him were it not for Tim Drake. I quite liked their fight in the issue before Jason Todd's death. It was brutal and brilliantly choreographed by the artist. Plus Batman won barely which was a nice sight :P

#38 Posted by The_MVPs (84693 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: I think Batman even said something to the effect that because of Conner's fight against Shiva that he would now be considered the Number #2 guy in the martial arts underground just below Shiva (but its just words and like you said, unsubstantiated). But it was still a cool side note. No gadgets just straight up fighting I see Batman and Shiva as 1A and 2A with either one capable of defeating the other on any given day. I also like the Death in the Family fight. It would have been cool if she had turned out to be Jason's mother and then Cass and Jason were brother and sister in the Pre-52 U. Would have liked to see that.

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#39 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: It has been much closer than this fight, they fought during Batman: A Death in the Family, and Shiva lost only because Robit kicked on her in back when fighting Batman. Its pretty close.

#40 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

No prep? Batman loses here...

#41 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan said:

No prep? Batman loses here...

#42 Posted by Lvenger (19886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: Yeah that's the way I'd like things to be between Batman and Shiva.

@Killemall: That's another thing I liked about the fight. Jason distracted Shiva then Batman wailed on her till she was down. Before that the fight could have gone either way. I do like tense fights like that.

#43 Edited by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure what happened in nightwing 0 but didn't shiva get the drop on batman? And couldn't an arguement be made that batman has improved since than? That was like 3-5 years ago in DC continuity I'm guessing since Dick was robin at the time? Beating nightwing isn't really enough. Batman beat cobbs who nightwing had out outsmart, so he should be far more skilled than Grayson. Has shiva done anything else? If not I'm giving this to batman.

#44 Posted by The_MVPs (84693 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Her New 52 feats are basically using a poison shuriken (I believe) on Batman (and yeah I think we can say she got the drop on him), and beating Robin (inexperienced) and Nightwing (broken rib). Not nearly enough to pit her against Bats. Hopefully we'll get to see her again sometime soon.

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#45 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler: Yea seems like she might need more feats. All though I believe her arc with nightwing is going to be continued after death of the family?

#46 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

This isn't about long term strategies or prep battle...it's a random encounter which both know who they are dealing with. Since Shiva is a Grandmaster, and she has shown feats in Martial arts far better than bruce's....so, I will give it to Shiva.

#47 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Also Shiva had to poison Batman,to defeat him.

I definatelly think,that if this goes h2h,Batman takes it.

#48 Posted by grimlock (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

in a random encounter i think Shiva brings batman down hard

#49 Posted by _Marianne_ (176 posts) - - Show Bio

I like seeing all the "Shiva" votes :)

#50 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins. Shiva may edge Batman in marital art ability (probably not by much), but this fight is alot more than that. Batman is faster, stronger, smarter, and his gadgets and weapons are superior to shiva's.