Batman vs Karate Kid

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#151  Edited By username12345

@jashro44: what about there other battle in brave and bold #5 Lords of Luck. Batman was at a disadvantage (fighting before hand/ being ambushed) and that duel was still a draw. And if KK is so good and can beat Kryptons what's to stop Batman from putting on his superman buster armor and beating him up?

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Val even if physical stats were equalized.Bruce's only hope of beating Val is with prep

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#153  Edited By username12345

@jashro44: just for the record KK wasn't dieing he just had amnesia. It was unclear if the amnesia hindered his martial arts or not.

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@jashro44: what about there other battle. Batman was at a disadvantage (fighting before hand/ being ambushed) and that duel was still a draw. And if KK is so good and can beat Kryptons what's to stop Batman from putting on his superman buster armor and beating him up?

  1. PIS
  2. The OP has specified hand to hand.
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#156  Edited By jashro44

@username12345 said:

@jashro44:

1. Why?

2. Fair enough

Because Karate kid can react at faster than light speeds and batman cannot.

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@jashro44: Batman beating Karate Kid is PIS but a human reacting faster than light isn't. -_-

BTW batman has "reacted" faster then light and "caught" speedsters 3 times. He beat flash and the other Justice league in batman confidential #53 and beat kid flash 2 times once when kid flash had back up from the rest of the titans.

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@jashro44: Batman beating Karate Kid is PIS but a human reacting faster than light isn't. -_-

BTW batman has "reacted" faster then light and "caught" speedsters 3 times. He beat flash and the other Justice league in batman confidential #53 and beat kid flash 2 times once when kid flash had back up from the rest of the titans.

Karate Kid simply has greater PIS than Batman.

Anyway you slice it, KK still comes out the winner.

They both lose the plot armor, it's probably just a lot worse for Bruce.

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@jashro44: Batman beating Karate Kid is PIS but a human reacting faster than light isn't. -_-

Because Karate kid does that stuff consistently.

BTW batman has "reacted" faster then light and "caught" speedsters 3 times. He beat flash and the other Justice league in batman confidential #53 and beat kid flash 2 times once when kid flash had back up from the rest of the titans.

You can't prove any of these speedsters were going faster than light....And its not like batman doesn't have other showings like nearly being killed by Zsasz or getting stomped by Artemis in hand to hand. When people want to low ball karate kid there is a reason they are quick to bring up his showings against batman while ignoring his showings against a bloodlusted Mon-el (including using Mon-els own momentum to toss him to another solar system thus reacting at FTL speed), regular mon-el, Equss, Ultra boy, and his showings of demolishing an iceberg, along with turning solid stone to a rubbery substance by hitting it.....

Karate kid is simply not a street leveller. Batman is.

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@scouterv: I actually don't believe in PIS/plot armor because it's fake at the end of the day. The only time I'll ever claim PIS is the Bane vs Thomas Jäger fight. And like I said before they are pretty much even in h2h.

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@scouterv: I actually don't believe in PIS/plot armor because it's fake at the end of the day. The only time I'll ever claim PIS is the Bane vs Thomas Jäger fight. And like I said before they are pretty much even in h2h.

Plot Armor, PIS, Nature of the Beast, you can call it anything you want really, because you're right. It's fiction.

However, let us just remember that in that fictional world, there is no real reason to think that Batman can beat Karate Kid in hand-to-hand. The two are worlds apart in their skill-level.

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#163  Edited By username12345

@jashro44: flash does go faster then light his sidekicks might not. Batman actually won his fight with Artemis and has beaten Wonder Woman in all 6 of there serious encounters but 1. WW> or = Artemis. The only time I can think of Zsasz holding his own to batman is when batman is injured or Zsasz has hostages. I'm not trying to low ball Karate kid I honestly don't care about him but I do care about batman and think he COULD beat him in h2h. Batman is actually been shown to be above street level characters. Deathstroke said he hits harder then metas. Batman beat Wonder Woman and other Justice League members that are above street level characters. Batmans bench max is about the same as Captain Americas and his leg press is over 2,500. Batman has static lifted objects that weigh 1ton before. And before any one claims PIS Cap America and Slade are human and they do crazy stuff also.

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@jashro44: flash does go faster then light his sidekicks might not. Batman actually won his fight with Artemis and has beaten Wonder Woman in all 6 of there serious encounters but 1. WW> or = Artemis. The only time I can think of Zsasz holding his own to batman is when batman is injured or Zsasz has hostages. I'm not trying to low ball Karate kid I honestly don't care about him but I do care about batman and think he COULD beat him in h2h. Batman is actually been shown to be above street level characters. Deathstroke said he hits harder then metas. Batman beat Wonder Woman and other Justice League members that are above street level characters. Batmans bench max is about the same as Captain Americas and his leg press is over 2,500. Batman has static lifted objects that weigh 1ton before. And before any one claims PIS Cap America and Slade are human and they do crazy stuff also.

Batman won his fight with artemis by sticking a needle in her neck, this was after he was pinned to the ground effortlessly by her. Flash doesn't always travel at light speed and I'm not sure why you would bring up batmans fights with wonder woman when they are obvious PIS. Batman regularly has a hard time with bane, Ras al ghul, lady shiva, deathstroke, david cain, bronze tiger, branca, heretic, and a whole bunch of other street levellers. He cannot consistently beat people that are kryptonian level.

The batman leg press thing is from batman odyssey which isn't canon.

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@scouterv: "there is no real reason to think batman can beat karate kid in hand to hand"

batman spared and faired well against him twice in pure h2h

"The two are worlds apart in their skill level"

Superman thinks they are only 3 levels behind and Batman loves proving superman wrong

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@jashro44: it was far from effortlessly and she wasn't the victor at the end even if batman won by "cheating" (there is no cheating in a battle). People's power levels are always inconsistent even Karate Kids (loosing to 21st century super girl hard but beating 31st century superboy) and even batman (sometimes he is just a brawler/ detective) sometimes he curb stomps lady shiva. Bane is a beast, batman stomped Ras and David Cain super easy, bronze tiger only held his own/beat batman in his early years current batman stomps (bronze tiger lost to catman in secret six and batman>>>>>catman), I don't know who branca and hieratic are and Batman has stomped/beat Slade in all but one of there fights. Batman beating Wonder Woman is not PIS she isn't nearly as strong as every one says. How much batman can leg press isn't the point, Wonder Woman could lift more then batman and I think batman could beat her, this is a fight not a lifting contest the point was to show that batman is >street level

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@jashro44: it was far from effortlessly and she wasn't the victor at the end even if batman won by "cheating" (there is no cheating in a battle). People's power levels are always inconsistent even Karate Kids (loosing to 21st century super girl hard but beating 31st century superboy) and even batman (sometimes he is just a brawler/ detective) sometimes he curb stomps lady shiva. Bane is a beast, batman stomped Ras and David Cain super easy, bronze tiger only held his own/beat batman in his early years current batman stomps (bronze tiger lost to catman in secret six and batman>>>>>catman), I don't know who branca and hieratic are and Batman has stomped/beat Slade in all but one of there fights. Batman beating Wonder Woman is not PIS she isn't nearly as strong as every one says. How much batman can leg press isn't the point, Wonder Woman could lift more then batman and I think batman could beat her, this is a fight not a lifting contest the point was to show that batman is >street level

Again this is a hand to hand fight so batman isn't allowed to "Cheat". Most of what you said is wrong about the examples I listed...I don't think I need to debate these points to be honest.

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If Karate Kid can beat Superman using martial arts then Batman, a man with superior resolve and tenacity to KK, can beat Val

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@username12345: Sparing and actually fighting are two different things. And if his others showings are any indication, Karate Kid has far greater physical striking power than Batman.

Superman gives Batman a lot of praise. (We get it DC. Superman is a Batfan.) And Superman probably is wrong, unless those three levels mean a lot more than we think/know. However, the gap between them is simply far greater than Bruce could ever hope to close.

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@jashro44: I get that Batman isn't allowed to cheat but KK isn't Artemis. I don't understand how I can be wrong about my opinion, especially since winning became subjective in the comic universe for example the Batman vs Superman Hush fight, Superman fanboys think batman didn't win because of an out of context quote or the Batman Deathstroke rematch because Deathstroke was "distracted". Both of those were canon but Batman haters find a way to un-legitimize batman feats because they hate fun and good movies.

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i dont know much about kk but from what i've heard this is a mismatch.

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@scouterv: Fair enough they were fighting not sparing. As for striking feats that's hard to judge because we haven't seen there most powerful strikes compared side by side. Batman has destroyed glass made for withstanding rockets.

As for superman praising batman; he probably lowered both there levels (maybe they're both 25) and martial arts isn't based on numbers and math it's based on who can beat up someone first. Lets just say Batman one million can beat them both and call it a day because I just got Kingdom Hearts 2.5 and really want to play it.

P.S. Who isn't a Batfan?

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#174  Edited By beatboks1

@username12345:

Just to dispell a few of you delusions.

1. Bats and KK have fought twice. One was a stalemate when Val was dying and amnesiac. the Other Val clearly one

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Bruce didn't have the skill to so much as lay a glove on Val when he was at his best and was easily disarmed. Bat's himself admitted Val outfought him. He got owned in one of the two fights.

Bruce doesn't have the striking power to accomplish anything like what Val has don throughout his career.

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We are talking about a guy who can cause Earth quakes, Shatter 70 to 80 kilotons of ice, Crack meteor, diamonds, and armored tanks (which withstood a vaporizing ray a few pages earlier), make the very street vibrate all with a Karate kick or chop.

The guy also casually and REGULARLY reacts to light speeders (I'd put up scans but I already have on this thread somewhere). He has reacted to Don Allen (Flash's great grandson), Mon-el, Ultra Boy, Superboy, Kid Nemisis, and many many more.

@potato said:

I vote Batman, because Karate Kid only know Karate but Batman know many Karates.

KK doesn't just know Karate, he knows and is master of every martial art in the universe in the 31st century. He has mastered many times the 127 martial arts Batman has
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Here he shows his mastery of a MA of a back water planet that almost no one knows.
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@beatboks1: What issue is the first panel from? Any chance you have scans of the fight where batman couldn't touch karate kid? Its not that I don't believe you, I just really want to see that fight.

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Karate Kid wins by a fair amount. He knocks around Kryptonians level characters with martial arts.

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@scouterv: Fair enough they were fighting not sparing. As for striking feats that's hard to judge because we haven't seen there most powerful strikes compared side by side. Batman has destroyed glass made for withstanding rockets.

As for superman praising batman; he probably lowered both there levels (maybe they're both 25) and martial arts isn't based on numbers and math it's based on who can beat up someone first. Lets just say Batman one million can beat them both and call it a day because I just got Kingdom Hearts 2.5 and really want to play it.

P.S. Who isn't a Batfan?

Why do you say they were fighting and not sparring? And Karate Kid has broken diamond, meteors, and sent a 60 foot Micro Lad flying.

Though you're right. The situation as it stands though, is that Batman can't beat up Karate Kid. Batman One Million is irrelevant in this conversation.

As for who isn't a Batfan, it depends on the Batman.

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@jashro44 said:

@beatboks1: What issue is the first panel from? Any chance you have scans of the fight where batman couldn't touch karate kid? Its not that I don't believe you, I just really want to see that fight.

Honestly can't remember the issue. It's in one of the two tellings (yes the story was published twice, those scans were from the first one of the two IIRC) where Bruce and Val fight and Bruce is battered and injured while unable to so much as lay a strike that actually lands on Val to do Damage. During the fight Bruce made a move (to the right or left or something) which Val gave him a hernia for his trouble. The move was made by Bruce as a distraction, so Black Lightning could sneak up on him and take him out from behind unchallenged.

It was also shown later that Val had considered such an act beneath the honor of the legendary Batman, so while he would have been prepared for such a thing from a more base villain (and has shown that many times) he didn't expect it from Bruce. He wouldn't make that mistake again (he's too good a fighter for that)

At the end of the fight BL and Bruce discussed how Superman had Val rated wrong, as he had Val rated close to Bruce in combat and their opinion was pretty clearly nearly double ( well 66.6% greater anyway)

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@beatboks1: I was talking about brave and the bold lords of luck that first scan wasn't it. Bruce has made superman (with venom) and Shazam bleed and his second scan of him making a building out of ice is Budhist Martial arts BS not a "striking feat". Batman has hurt people able to destroy boulders before (Solomon Grundy, killer croc). I'm not saying Batman would automatically win I'm saying he COULD win in H2H

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@scouterv: sparing =fight with rules fighting = fight with no rules Batman beats super strong enemies all the time with pure martial arts that are stronger then Karate Kid; bane, Shazam (twice superman batman public enemies/ return of robin), lex Luther with his power armor, Solomon Grundy, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, green lanterns

Neither of them could beat one another in there fights, I think they're even in pure martial arts skills (KK is stronger but Batman has better gadgets and brain power). As for Batman one million I was trying to find something everyone can agree on just in case I wouldn't be over whelmed with messages.

Every one likes Batman deep in there hearts. Batman is love

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@username12345: the second scan has nothing what so ever to do with "making a building". The building was there and covered in 70 to 80 kilotons of ice that he shattered with a single blow. No gear, not special equipment JUST his fist and his level of "control".

Its st a ted in his canon that his training allows him to see the weak point of everything and knowmexactly where to strike (how he shattered a diamond, and chopped an armored tank in half). Despite the fact that he's not supposed to have powers his regular feats are as though he does.

Killer crocks feats <<<<<<<<<<<< Karate Kid.Grundy has varying levles of power based on who hes fighting because of the fact that he's an energy sponge w h o absorbs energy that amps him. When he fights the likes of Alan Scot, Dr Fate, or Superman hes easily 100++ tonner. When he fights Batman or Wildcat not so much.

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@username12345: Fair enough on the distinction. With that said, I could make the same argument that Karate Kid beats enemies just as strong, if not stronger than the ones Batman fights, Batman himself, and does it without gadgets and prep time, which is how Bruce pulls out a lot of victories he otherwise wouldn't.

And you're right. Batman does have better gadgets, but that's the thing. Karate Kid doesn't need gadgets. Plus their is no reason that Karate Kid couldn't beat Batman. Karate Kid knows every martial art Batman knows...and the ones from the future and from alien planets that Batman couldn't begin to comprehend or defend against.

And I've never seen Batman One Million fight, so I can't comment really. And if we're talkin Batman Beyond, then yes.

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@beatboks1: he didn't punch it, it was just his "control" I haven't seen him use his "control" powers in a fight. And batman wouldn't give him time to.

If anything hits the weak spot of a diamond it can be shatered and batman destroys walls and metal doors meant to withstand rockets. Batman never attacked a tank head on so we can't really compare there striking feats the point is batman can and has hurt him with his fists. KK is human just like Batman.

True Killer crock is a jobber but he is very strong. The weakest version of Grundy is stronger then KK, but Grundy would still get beaten like I said in a previous post this is a fight not a lifting contest. Batman COULD beat him in pure h2h

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@username12345:

he didn't punch it, it was just his "control" I haven't seen him use his "control" powers in a fight. And batman wouldn't give him time to.

It was a "controlled" strike. What the hell do you think he as holding up a clenched fist for in the panel before shattering it??

  1. Fact KK actually reacts to super speedster REGULARLY while they are operating at vastly greater than light speed. Shown on panel as their speed can be verified by the events of the feats. Bat's has only a handfull of feats (at best0 of reacting to speedsters who aren't moving so.
  2. fact KK has multitudes of feats of fighting and stalemating characters with planet busting strength without gear without weapons. In fact it's the regular power type character he fights. batman has none. At best Bat's has fought characters with fluctuating strength
  3. Fact KK has mastered VASTLY more styles of combat. Bruce knows "127" martial arts, Val every single martial art in the united planets.
  4. Fact this battle is purely H2H skill without weapons which removes from play any feat of Bruce achieving what KK has

Conclusion is simple. Bruce get's stomped.

PIS is

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics.

as shown here. Bruce who is regularly given a good fight and struggles against guy's like Slade Wilson, Shiva, Bronze Tiger etc giving a good fight to Val who only ever fights power houses (like Superman, Mon-el. Nemisis Kid, Dev Em, Emerald Empress, Tornado Twins etc etc) and comes out on top is PIS. trying to claim the same for Bruce when he has a handful of WIS (that's when a writer places a character over his capability on rare occasions - there are writers like Leob who are known for it, another examples would be any Catman story written by Simone) is just a massive stretch.

If anything hits the weak spot of a diamond it can be shatered and batman destroys walls and metal doors meant to withstand rockets. Batman never attacked a tank head on so we can't really compare there striking feats the point is batman can and has hurt him with his fists. KK is human just like Batman.

And can anything hitting a point in the ground cause an earth quake or for the street to shake??? It's the pure consistency of of feats that is the issue here. Val does it ALL the time, Bruce Not so much.

The weakest version of Grundy is stronger then KK, but Grundy would still get beaten like I said in a previous post this is a fight not a lifting contest. Batman COULD beat him in pure h2h

Based on feats Bat's in "pure H2H couldn't even affect Grundy when he's absorbed energy due to his enhanced durability and strength putting him beyond any level Bruce could do anything to. Val based on feats still would put Grundy down at his highest levels because he threw a guy flying at him at light speed into another freaking galaxy with a different sun.

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#186  Edited By Frisky4

KK

GG

No re

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Man, people sure do love using the Batcave fight against KK without realizing how handicapped he really was in it. A properly healthy KK not suffering from amnesia/having a freaking STARRO PULLED OUT OF HIS NECK/unstoppable disease that would eventually kill him? That guy is winning within 1-2 hits because Bruce has nothing for him.

As for the Brave and the Bold fight, Val was clearly going all hero-worship on Bats and not taking him very seriously.

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@scouterv: KK probably does fight bad guys just as strong as Bruce fights but based of canon comic battles he never beat batman

I was just saying an example. I think they're even in h2h even in speed (they both dodged speedsters attacks) KK is stronger but batman is smarter and more willing to take cheap shots

Batman one million>Bruce > terry. BM one million was one of the only people besides bane who could one shot him

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#189  Edited By username12345

@beatboks1: I don't think batman would give him time to do that

1 batman can dodge speedsters he dodged superman, flash, kid flash, killed flashes enemy

2 he spared superboy of the 30th century who was holding back and was stomped super super super easy by supergirl present times

3 Batman has "mastered every form of violence" up to that point in time that includes styles out side of martial arts KK probably hasn't even heard of (many styles probably died out). But KK does know more "forms of violence", that doesn't guaranty a win though

4 what?

Even IF KK could win it wouldn't be a stomp

I know what PIS is I just think it's an excuse to ignore feats and arguments because the person can't think of anything

Batman one shoted Deathstroke (superman batman annual #1) Shiva (superman batman public enemies) and defeated/ tied with Bronze tiger (batman the brave and the bold batman black gate) Like I said before Batman took out wonderwoman and Shazam they're very powerful but they aren't planet movers but I don't think anyone KK fought on your list are planet movers. KK never "beat up" any kryptonians only hold his own against them without kryptonite which batman has done (batman superman worlds finest there second fight in justice league war when superman was mind controlled and another comic book that I can't remember the name of) batman made Darksied bleed with a kick and avoided his omega beams allot which is close enough for me for "beating planet busters" (which KK never did)

Batman has fought Bane who can make mini earthquakes Solomon Grundy who can do that and Killer crock who can do that and Amazo (with some "toys" and help but he still did it) Martian man hunter twice aquaman twice Wonder Woman a bunch of times Shazam twice just because he is strong doesn't mean he will always win Batman is still smarter and more creative of a fighter, he has a longer reach is more willing to take cheap shots he probably knows more about anatomy so he can hit more weak spots even though he has no gadgets he can still use stealth. Flash has given superman a run for his money and he can't hit as hard. That was the only feat of kk with no time to mentally prepare himself make an earthquake so maybe it is PIS

Based on feats batman beat Solomon Grundy loads in H2H superman batman public enemies for example Grundy at his lowest would loose to KK but at his highest would eat him

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Batman hasn't mastered "every form of violence." He's even admitted that he doesn't know Amazonian martial arts and he sure as hell doesn't know alien martial arts, so put that hype train back in the station. And no, Bats dodging speedsters without prior planning is either PIS or the other person severely holding back on him.

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#191  Edited By username12345

@kal_el_summers: 1 he wasn't dieing, he didn't get the starro pulled out of his neck or he wouldn't be fighting, he only had amnesia due to being mind controlled. He wasn't winning in the end. Neither of them were. In the end they were both bloody and battered.

2 in the brave and the bold fight he was absolutely taking the fight seriously. There was nothing to indicate if he was star struck and if he was whats to stop him from being star struck in this hypothetical encounter?

3 Batmans words not mine

4 he does it consistently. He fights superman a lot, sometimes he wins sometimes he looses but he wouldn't be alive if he couldn't dodge his attacks. He dodged flash in batman confidential #53 and stomped flashes sidekicks.

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Kal-El Summers

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1. He was retconned into having the virus back then, so yeah, he was dying. And he did get the Starro pulled from his neck, it's why he was freaking unconscious in the first place. He had amnesia from going back in time, it was established that ALL of the Legion members had suffered memory loss when they went back. Read the freaking issues. And no, he was winning. Bats had taken considerably more damage and the only reason he was able to get anything at all on Val was due to Val slowly recovering from his memory loss.

2. No, he wasn't. Look at his dialogue during it. Serious Val isn't going to banter like that.

3. Yeah, he's a pathological liar with a big ego, so I'm not shocked he declare something like that when even he knows it's not true.

4. He's never beaten Superman. EVER. Not even in DKR. Again, him dodging those attacks(and Flash/Bart Allen) is PIS. Did you even read that issue? It was full-on Bat-wank with him doing things that should've never been possible(knocking the breath out of Diana/kicking and hurting MM/dragging Hal to the ground with a freaking black rope/blinding Flash with gas). So yeah, you can miss me with that garbage.

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DarthManhunter

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Karate Kid.

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Claymore1998

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Karate Kid.

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username12345

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@kal_el_summers: don't be a jerk and calm down this is a comic battle made for fun

1 if the starro was out of his neck he wouldn't have attacked him, the reason he attacked was because of the mind control from the starro, and how do you know batman took more damage? Is it because secretly you are Karate Kid, batman, or black lightning? Or is it because they had health bars above there heads like a video game? Or is it because that's what you want to serve your own argument?

2 he was bantering to destruct him. Maybe batman wasn't fighting seriously he was bantering to. Me or you couldn't possibly know if they was serous or not but those were the only times they battled and the fact is, no matter how much PIS was involved or how sick KK was, they were even

3 that's not very nice he is an honorable man and he said it in his brain so I don't understand why you would say that. He honestly lowers his feats and berates himself for not doing everything perfectly so he doesn't have a big ego. Pathological liar comes with the turf of being a mask vigilante superman lies all the time and so does Bruce to keep their identities a secret

4 he has beaten superman many times. The first time they battled batman won. In the comic book sorcerer kings batman won. Hush, the dark knight returns, endgame, superman the trust, the dark knight strikes again, and lots of other times. Superman won some as well like in the comic sacrifice when Wonder Woman killed maxwell lord. I don't want to turn this into a superman vs batman forum though so please don't continue. I have read batman confidential #53 and it was awesome sauce. And guess what it's not PIS because it's fiction. Wonder Woman isn't even that strong just for the record. Based on amozian training and feats she should be as strong as bane off venom. Bane pinned superboy and killed a bunch of talons easy.

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Claymore1998

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#196  Edited By Claymore1998

Karate Kid

^_^

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username12345

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Kal-El Summers

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@kal_el_summers: don't be a jerk and calm down this is a comic battle made for fun

1 if the starro was out of his neck he wouldn't have attacked him, the reason he attacked was because of the mind control from the starro, and how do you know batman took more damage? Is it because secretly you are Karate Kid, batman, or black lightning? Or is it because they had health bars above there heads like a video game? Or is it because that's what you want to serve your own argument?

2 he was bantering to destruct him. Maybe batman wasn't fighting seriously he was bantering to. Me or you couldn't possibly know if they was serous or not but those were the only times they battled and the fact is, no matter how much PIS was involved or how sick KK was, they were even

3 that's not very nice he is an honorable man and he said it in his brain so I don't understand why you would say that. He honestly lowers his feats and berates himself for not doing everything perfectly so he doesn't have a big ego. Pathological liar comes with the turf of being a mask vigilante superman lies all the time and so does Bruce to keep their identities a secret

4 he has beaten superman many times. The first time they battled batman won. In the comic book sorcerer kings batman won. Hush, the dark knight returns, endgame, superman the trust, the dark knight strikes again, and lots of other times. Superman won some as well like in the comic sacrifice when Wonder Woman killed maxwell lord. I don't want to turn this into a superman vs batman forum though so please don't continue. I have read batman confidential #53 and it was awesome sauce. And guess what it's not PIS because it's fiction. Wonder Woman isn't even that strong just for the record. Based on amozian training and feats she should be as strong as bane off venom. Bane pinned superboy and killed a bunch of talons easy.

1. Read the actual comic. The Starro being taken out of his neck is why he was unconscious, the amnesia is from the time travel, which is clearly explained before they start going and finding the other Legion members. It was already out of his neck when he woke up and attacked BL and Bats. As far as the damage is concerned, KK clearly told Bruce what injuries he had inflicted on him and Bats said nothing to dispute it while being shown slightly hunched over favoring his injuries. If you had actually read the comic, you'd know this.

2. Val generally doesn't banter like that when he's fighting seriously. Also, he wasn't sick when he fought Bats in the Luck Lords arc.

3. LOL

4. So there's no such thing as "PIS" because it's "fiction?" That certainly explains why you consider pretty much everything you listed as a Bats win instead of the insipid Bat-wank it actually is. Diana is a as strong as Bane? Wonder Woman, who brawls with Herald-level characters almost literally all the time, is only as strong as BANE? Nah, son. You can miss me with that BS.

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username12345

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#199  Edited By username12345

@kal_el_summers:

1 How much damage did the starro cause? Amnesia doesn't hinder wolverines abilatys and it didn't hinder KKs abilatys in that fight either. KK was wrong Bruce was faking so BL could sneak up on him.

2 neither does batman

3 OK now we know who the bat haters are in the forum

4 so there is no such thing as PIS in Karate Kid comics? Wow you must really love Karate Kid wanking because clearly a peak human with no kryptonite and special judo could definetly hold his own against superboy. Wonder Woman in the older comics couldn't even escape a well placed blow to the back of her head. The only reason she faired so well in a fight against superman is because she has magic. Wonder woman's power levels are over rated bane easily takes on groups of talons (1-3 toners) and throws huge rocks like a baseball.

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TG_54

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strictly h2h with no armor or gear, i say karate kid.