@saren: Now that I think of it, I do go a lil' overboard with the Batman memes even though they're hilarious (to me at least) lol. Still, my bad though, I'll cool it with 'em.
The League may have the same body states as Batman's, but in terms of H2H the majority of them don't have that level of skill(s), knowledge, experience and tactical thinking that he possess. Sure, some may know some techniques and such, but they're much on Batman's playing field. And them having Batman's speed and durability might give them an edge since they can just jump on him but so what? Batman has fought guys that have that were equal strength and skills to him (or stronger) and they still get beat.
- GL and Flash know basic H2h combat, but without their powers they won't even compare.
- Superman knows some alien martial arts and some pressure points but how often has he been using them against different opponents? Was it because that he had his powers at the time was the reason why he could do those abilities? Has their ever been a time where he was de-powered before and had to use his martial arts skills to get through a tough situation? How many groups of guys has he taken down with just pure skill alone and/or a very establish martial artist that was greater than his? Also, keep in mind that Batman taunt Superman some Martial arts too, and might figure out what Sup's is doing before the first punch is thrown. This is one of those reasons why I always see Superman as the powerhouse and not Jackie Chan. Not counting him out just yet because Bat's is out numbered but, come on, it's Batman.
- Haven't been following on Aquaman as of late (so, shame on me lol), but Aquaman does have a warrior-isk fighting style only known to his kingdom. I'm sure he'll give Batman a fight but if Aquaman's not good with his hands then he'll be good with his Trident.
- I only see WW giving Batman a real challenge here, and they have spared a handful of times before during the JLA run, so they do know each other well enough. But WW had her powers and had to restrain herself to not kill Batman, so I don't know if she'll be just as good or better taking on Batman. I'm sure she'll take him on first or last, but by then Batman will be tired out when the fight is over.
Don't forget that Batman has studied every League member and knows their strengths and weaknesses, so tactics would come into play, maneuver around and have the League attack each other, or position himself where he'll have the advantage. He knows 127 disciplines of combat, knows every pressure points so he can neutralize them, and knows the Leopard Blow and Falling Leaf technique that can kill his opponents instantly. Batman can win this but, WW and maybe Aquaman could pose a problem.
Beside, wasn't their a issue where he flat out takes out the League on his own and kicks WW so hard that she couldn't breath, or was that entirely PIS lol?
Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.
Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.
Here is what Batman has to say about it.
Barely anyone takes that claim seriously seeing as Diana does not even come close to having the feats to place her as the best melee fighter.
People hate giving skill to people with powers, but Wonder Woman has bested skilled people, and how dare you question the words of Batman, lol.
@pokeysteve: I'm pretty sure I called it "ridiculous", and the word is right up there for anyone to read. The second instance was in the Wonder Woman Annual right after OYL, where Batman held Cheetah down and strangled her until she passed out, and the third was --- I think --- in an issue of S/B, but I'm not sure about that.
Sure, but Cheetah's also lost to Catwoman twice and been one-shotted by Black Lightning twice. Terrible writing seems to follow her around. She's a horrible jobber, so Batman's not really to blame.
Oh god I remember the strangling one. Her showings with electricity are all over as well. I don't blame Batman. I blame the writers. Outside of Wonder Woman's book she's pathetic. Just goes to show how many writers don't do their homework.
Diana's feats of skill are not much compared to Bruce's.
Try less than nothing.
I'm not seeing how Diana having "superhuman reflexes" or "being an Amazon warrior" or "taking down beings as strong as her" equates to "being one of the best martial artists in the world."
@phantomlantern8: Not necessarily in this case. A lethal punch to the head is going to kill the target, Kryptonian or not. Regardless, Superman's physiology is close enough that anything Batman does will have an extremely close, if not totally same effect.
The League may have the same body states as Batman's, but in terms of H2H the majority of them don't have that level of skill(s), knowledge, experience and tactical thinking that he possess. Sure, some may know some techniques and such, but they're much on Batman's playing field. And them having Batman's speed and durability might give them an edge since they can just jump on him but so what? Batman has fought guys that have that were equal strength and skills to him (or stronger) and they still get beat.
- GL and Flash know basic H2h combat, but without their powers they won't even compare.
- Superman knows some alien martial arts and some pressure points but how often has he been using them against different opponents? Was it because that he had his powers at the time was the reason why he could do those abilities? Has their ever been a time where he was de-powered before and had to use his martial arts skills to get through a tough situation? How many groups of guys has he taken down with just pure skill alone and/or a very establish martial artist that was greater than his? Also, keep in mind that Batman taunt Superman some Martial arts too, and might figure out what Sup's is doing before the first punch is thrown. This is one of those reasons why I always see Superman as the powerhouse and not Jackie Chan. Not counting him out just yet because Bat's is out numbered but, come on, it's Batman.
- Haven't been following on Aquaman as of late (so, shame on me lol), but Aquaman does have a warrior-isk fighting style only known to his kingdom. I'm sure he'll give Batman a fight but if Aquaman's not good with his hands then he'll be good with his Trident.
- I only see WW giving Batman a real challenge here, and they have spared a handful of times before during the JLA run, so they do know each other well enough. But WW had her powers and had to restrain herself to not kill Batman, so I don't know if she'll be just as good or better taking on Batman. I'm sure she'll take him on first or last, but by then Batman will be tired out when the fight is over.
Don't forget that Batman has studied every League member and knows their strengths and weaknesses, so tactics would come into play, maneuver around and have the League attack each other, or position himself where he'll have the advantage. He knows 127 disciplines of combat, knows every pressure points so he can neutralize them, and knows the Leopard Blow and Falling Leaf technique that can kill his opponents instantly. Batman can win this but, WW and maybe Aquaman could pose a problem.
Beside, wasn't their a issue where he flat out takes out the League on his own and kicks WW so hard that she couldn't breath, or was that entirely PIS lol?
that isssue of batman one shotting manhunter and 2 shotting WW is one of the biggest PIS cases i have ever seen,they take nukes unharmed and go head to head with superman level characters,he can't hurt them at all when they have their powers.
@pokeysteve: I'm pretty sure I called it "ridiculous", and the word is right up there for anyone to read. The second instance was in the Wonder Woman Annual right after OYL, where Batman held Cheetah down and strangled her until she passed out, and the third was --- I think --- in an issue of S/B, but I'm not sure about that.
Sure, but Cheetah's also lost to Catwoman twice and been one-shotted by Black Lightning twice. Terrible writing seems to follow her around. She's a horrible jobber, so Batman's not really to blame.
that is only because most of those writters thought cheetah was a meta human,but she has more good feats than bad overall,and batman has a huge ctalogue of PIS in his favor,taking down aquaman,flash,WW,manhunter and other powerhouses when they had their powers,you know he is DC's biggest money maker so he can get special treatment and do things that are impossible for a character that is supposed to be a peak human.
Diana's feats of skill are not much compared to Bruce's.
Try less than nothing.
I'm not seeing how Diana having "superhuman reflexes" or "being an Amazon warrior" or "taking down beings as strong as her" equates to "being one of the best martial artists in the world."
It doesn't. And not to sound sexist, but her being depowered gives Batman a male physiological advantage.
Bruce, no contest. Maybe morals on it would be an interesting fight, but morals off and he one shots them with either the Leopard Strike or Vibrating Palm.
Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.
Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.
Here is what Batman has to say about it.
The strength to rip planets apart would help in being considered "the best melee fighter." That statement isn't strictly speaking of straight skill.
She's a immortal warrior who's trained over 2000-3000 years. Try again.
She's an immortal warrior who's lost to Batman literally every time they have a sparring match. The only time she's ever gotten the upperhand is when she utilized her powers. Batman has even beat her with her powers.
She's a immortal warrior who's trained over 2000-3000 years. Try again.
She's an immortal warrior who's lost to Batman literally every time they have a sparring match. The only time she's ever gotten the upperhand is when she utilized her powers. Batman has even beat her with her powers.
Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.
Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.
Here is what Batman has to say about it.
The strength to rip planets apart would help in being considered "the best melee fighter." That statement isn't strictly speaking of straight skill.
That is not necessarily true, for example, Anderson Silva (before injury) was considered the best fighter in the world, doesn't mean he will beat Alistair Overeem. Being a good fighter has hardly anything to do with strength, a lot of fodder are quite strong, but you don't see Batman saying they are the best due to their strength. Same goes for Superman, and how it is believed by many that Wonderwoman would win due to superior skill.
Diana's feats of skill are not much compared to Bruce's.
Try less than nothing.
I'm not seeing how Diana having "superhuman reflexes" or "being an Amazon warrior" or "taking down beings as strong as her" equates to "being one of the best martial artists in the world."
It doesn't. And not to sound sexist, but her being depowered gives Batman a male physiological advantage.
Not quite how it works in comics, that is why you see people like Cassandra Cain, or Zealot, you name it easily able to contend with their male counterparts.
Bruce, no contest. Maybe morals on it would be an interesting fight, but morals off and he one shots them with either the Leopard Strike or Vibrating Palm.
@BigCimmerian Op didn't mention batman has weapons. Aquaman, Diana, and Martian Man Hunter bloodlust, they all have their own training and would easily overwhelm batman.
There was a fight in one of the pre-52 Batman/Superman comics where a crazed Batman with Supermans powers fought the entire Justice League at once. They were all holding back due to morals, but this batman was crazed and went all out, used his power and superior tactics to beat them all fairly quickly. I see this fight going like the fight in the comic, except without powers and Batman is completely morals off and prepared to kill. I'm sure Batman will come up with a plan to take out the team in a specific order and also use lethal strikes which he learned from his years of training.
Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.
Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.
Here is what Batman has to say about it.
The strength to rip planets apart would help in being considered "the best melee fighter." That statement isn't strictly speaking of straight skill.
That is not necessarily true, for example, Anderson Silva (before injury) was considered the best fighter in the world, doesn't mean he will beat Alistair Overeem. Being a good fighter has hardly anything to do with strength, a lot of fodder are quite strong, but you don't see Batman saying they are the best due to their strength. Same goes for Superman, and how it is believed by many that Wonderwoman would win due to superior skill.
Yes, but Batman has never fought fodder with, again, the strength to rip planets apart. Superman has that strength too, but Diana has the skill to go along with it, hence her being the best melee fighter, or the most effective close quarters combatant in other words. Batman for all his skill, can not be more effective than her, simply because of her stats. The quote doesn't mean she's more skilled though.
Everybody needs to take context into account. The JLA are facing a big threat, and Batman can only get help from one member at this point. Who would be more useful, Wonder Woman, or some very skilled street leveler? Wonder Woman of course.
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