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#1 Edited by OreoAssassin (4663 posts) - - Show Bio

Scenario: The Justice League is completely depowered to. Batmans base durability and speed. They maintain their OWN hand to hand fighting skills. Batman is fighting the whole depowered Justice League in hand to hand only.

RULES:

-Batman (Morals Off)

VS

-Superman, Wonderwoman, Flash (Barry/No Speed Force), Hal (No Ring), Aquaman

------

-Hand To Hand Only

-Pre 52

-Win by KO or Death

-The 5 Members Are All Depowered And Do Not Have Original Strength, Powers Or Anything. They Just Have Batmans Speed, Durability and their OWN Fighting Skills

Location: Giant Sized Boxing Ring

#2 Posted by Wolverine08 (40793 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is the only person who'll be something of a challenge here.

#3 Posted by keithcolby1995 (454 posts) - - Show Bio

I only see Wonder Woman giving him any trouble then. (If I am reading all of the rules right)

#4 Edited by reaverlation (15270 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman's only threat are Diana and Clark and only Diana can hold her own till Bruce puts her down.Batman wins

#5 Posted by keithcolby1995 (454 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Edited by patrat18 (9467 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman.

#7 Edited by MetalJimmor (940 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman gets stomped.

The ENTIRE League at once? Even depowered, that's unfair. He's fighting a few respectable hand to hand combatants.

Wonder Woman could arguably win in hand to hand without her powers. Aquaman could potentially give him a challenge being a warrior king with a ton of fighting experience. Superman isn't much of a slouch in hand to hand, has a solid knowledge of pressure points, and has a handle on two kryptonian martial arts in addition to training from Batman himself. Hal is at least military, so he should be some what adept at hand to hand, plus any training he recieved on Oa. Flash... Is there. I don't know how much combat training he has, but he at least has experience.

Also does Aquaman have his harpoon hand? Because that... Kind of gives the League a massive advantage in fatal damage.

#8 Edited by Evil Incarnate (3808 posts) - - Show Bio

League wins. Most serve as a distraction and Diana takes him down.

#9 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (40793 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.

Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.

#11 Posted by Stormdriven (4754 posts) - - Show Bio

Oooooooh man, I REALLY like this thread. Batman is arguably the greatest hand to hand combatant in all of comic books. His martial arts discipline and knowledge is ridiculous. I could see him winning, mainly because his only real competition being Aquaman and Wonder Woman. Clark is good, but not quite their level. Hal probably does have some Lantern training, but I don't see it being enough to bring him to the level of Bats, Aquaman or WW. Flash is almost a non factor here, unless he gets in a sucker punch.

#12 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.

Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.

Here is what Batman has to say about it.

#13 Edited by Wolverine08 (40793 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Statements really don't mean much in comics. Black Panther has said that Shang Chi is better than Iron Fist when Shang has done literally nothing to put his martial prowess on par with Danny's. Diana in no way has shown the technical knowledge necessary to come close to splitting Batman.

#14 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Statements really don't mean much in comics. Black Panther has said that Shang Chi is better than Iron Fist when Shang has done literally nothing to put his martial prowess on par with Danny's. Diana in no way has shown the technical knowledge necessary to come close to splitting Batman.

She is pretty much always the superior hand to hand combatant skill wise, she easily is on par with Batman, the problem is, I do not have any scans, so i cannot actually effectively debate you on this point, perhaps someone else can that has some scans.

#15 Posted by Wolverine08 (40793 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Posted by uchiha454 (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

I coulda swore batman said that Diana was the best melee combatant in the the league

#17 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

I coulda swore batman said that Diana was the best melee combatant in the the league

I linked the scan

#18 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by uchiha454 (2285 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: yup I read it im going with WW the rest of the league isn't needed

#20 Posted by Noone301994 (4147 posts) - - Show Bio

aquaman easily solos

#21 Posted by CF12793 (2992 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman is the only person who'll be something of a challenge here.

yeah and even then, this is a morals off Batman we're talking here so that definitely hinders WW's chance. Nerve strikes FTW.

#22 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

aquaman easily solos

What makes you say that? Perhaps you didn't read the special conditions. Everyone is base stats.

#23 Posted by SHAZAM117 (2811 posts) - - Show Bio

League

#24 Edited by Zjun_ (490 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman could take on all of 'em with quite some trouble with WW and some trouble with Clark. I think he could take down all of them if he can at least try to deal with 2 combatants at a time (if not one) if you get what I'm saying.

In other words, if he gets completely surrounded by the JL, he's screwed and gets his neck and back snapped by a girl.

I'd guesstimate Batman wins 75ish % of the time.

Edit: Didn't see the morals off there. Batman should take this for sure.

#26 Posted by TheMagicStik (1570 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the League is being underestimated by some people.

Superman has trained under multiple people including Batman to be a superior fighter. Every time he encounters another Kryptonian he can beat them because of his significant fighting skill advantage.

Diana I don't think I really need to say anything, I'm pretty sure Batman has called her about as good a fighter as he is, she's a beast to say the least.

Aquaman is a trained Atlantean warrior, he should have some skills

Hal is a trained airforce officer, I'm sure he has had some formal millitary hand to hand combat training and I know he has been put in situations where he has needed to further improve his fighting skills and has.

Barry is good for fodder.

#27 Posted by RBT (4132 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana can provide a challenge. But Bruce would win. Since Bats' morals are off, he would just snap Barry, Clark and Hal's neck pretty early. Diana and maybe Arthur can hold their own for a minute or so, but that's it.

#28 Posted by Noone301994 (4147 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by ZeroPlus (2279 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins.

#30 Posted by Zjun_ (490 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

No morals, Batman kills them all with one hit each. This is practically a mismatch.

@rbt said:

Diana can provide a challenge. But Bruce would win. Since Bats' morals are off, he would just snap Barry's neck first and Arthur and Hal's necks pretty early. Diana and maybe Clark can hold their own for a minute or so, but that's it.

I somewhat agree with both of you.

#31 Posted by RBT (4132 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zjun_: Did you edit my words?

#32 Posted by christianrapper (923 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

No morals, Batman kills them all with one hit each. This is practically a mismatch.

the league has no morals either. they will just overwhelm him and kill him.

Online
#34 Posted by CF12793 (2992 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

@christianrapper said:

@saren said:

No morals, Batman kills them all with one hit each. This is practically a mismatch.

the league has no morals either. they will just overwhelm him and kill him.

With their undoubtedly equally long and tremendous resume of H2H expertise, I'm guessing?

How do you think a fight between an unarmed Guy Gardner and Batman would go down? :D

#35 Edited by MetalJimmor (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren:

Most of the characters he's fighting actually do have a tremendously long resume of hand to hand combat showings. Just because they are fighting at superhuman levels doesn't mean they aren't using any technique or skill at all.

People just seem to discredit their martial skill by the fact they have powers, as if every single opponent they go up against were much weaker than they were in stats so it was just the powers doing all the work. That simply isn't the case. Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Superman all face opponents just as strong if not stronger than they are, and come out on top due to superior skill in combat, both in utilizing their powers or simply through martial arts skill.

Is there really a much larger disparity of skill needed between Batman beating Grundy or Superman beating Doomsday?

I dunno. It just feels like there's a huge bias against powered characters when people talk about skill. It takes a great deal of skill to defeat an opponent equal to or stronger than yourself, it doesn't matter at what scale you're fighting at.

Hopefully someone with scans will come along with a better argument then I could make. I just don't see Batman taking on five opponents at once when two are advanced martial artists themselves (One arguably being his equal), one is at least an expert combatant at this point, and the fourth has basic military training.

I certainly don't see Batman one shotting anyone here except perhaps Barry.

#37 Edited by MonsterStomp (16719 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

No morals, Batman kills them all with one hit each. This is practically a mismatch.

#38 Posted by SirNeko (948 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman in a slapstomp.

#42 Posted by MetalJimmor (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren:

One could also argue that Batman uses his gadgets to gain an edge over most of his opponents that are stronger than him in much the same way the powered heroes would use their extra abilities to overcome stronger foes. Also, Batman more often than not is physically superior to his foes too. Riddler, Joker, Two-Face, and Penguin certainly aren't beating him in a fist fight any time soon. Killer Croc SHOULD be stronger but, well... He's Killer Croc. Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze are physically weaker but have special powers that he usually has to prep for. I know Batman does often out skill stronger enemies too, but not every opponent is superhumanly strong, and his prep is usually the biggest deciding factor when he faces foes above him in power.

I didn't compare it to Lady Shiva. I was using Grundy as an example because he can be compared to Doomsday more easily, just on different scales. I'm also pretty sure Lady Shiva should have a skill edge over Batman, not a physical power edge.

Superman has been depowered and beaten a group of soldiers using pressure points before too. Pressure points he learned from training with Batman. Wonder Woman was depowered for a whole story arc and was able to continue on crime fighting using pure skill just as Batman does. But like I said, I don't have scans so someone else will have to make an argument.

#44 Edited by MetalJimmor (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren:

Fair enough. Batman definitely has more chances to show off his martial arts skills than any of the rest. I didn't realize Man-Bat was that strong. He's one of my favorite bat villains, but you don't really see much of him. And like I said, Croc is Croc. He's made to lose hilariously despite his strength. Sad, given he'd be a favorite of mine too if not for his tendency to be terrible.

To be fair, the OP gave the League Batman's physicals. They should very well be able to dodge and react to his blows, not just stand around and get hit without even seeing the strike coming.

I know Grundy's powers fluctuate. I was just going for the dumb brute with superior physicals concept. I suppose Croc would've been a better stand in, but again Croc is... Croc.

#45 Edited by TDK_1997 (14662 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins in the end.

#46 Posted by ComicStooge (12457 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce cleans house.

Online
#47 Posted by Pokeysteve (8235 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: Did you seriously just reference Batman one shotting Cheetah as an actual feat? She's had a building fall on her and was fine. And I only remember that happening once in Catwoman I think. Can you point me to the other two times? Batman even contending with Cheetah is terrible writing.

#49 Posted by Jmarshmallow (4735 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce, no contest. Maybe morals on it would be an interesting fight, but morals off and he one shots them with either the Leopard Strike or Vibrating Palm.

Jmarshmallow

#50 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1199 posts) - - Show Bio

Bruce pretty much one shots all of them aside from Diana who puts up a slight challenge but is swiftly beaten. This borders on a mismatch.

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

Wonder Woman is enough for a near 50-50 battle, adding the others just over kill.

Never particularly understood why people think that Wonder Woman can come close to splitting any high end martial artist like Batman, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. She's good compared to most other comic characters, but shouldn't be coming anywhere near a 50-50 battle with Batman.

Here is what Batman has to say about it.

Barely anyone takes that claim seriously seeing as Diana does not even come close to having the feats to place her as the best melee fighter.