Batman vs Captain America

to everyone saying capt beats bats h2h r u serious? strength isn't everything

No it isn't, but the strength, endurance, and speed of Cap start to weigh heavily on Bats the longer a h2h fight lasts. Strength may not be everything, but neither is skill.

ur right, strength isn't everything and neither is skill but intellect is and that's where bats beats cap

Batman fights stronger opponents on a daily basis like Grundy or Bane, Cap struggles with Red skull and he is basically Two face lol

@r2datu: They are both men with a gun with good accuracy, Red Skull doesn't dodge bullets so if Two Face keeps range it doesn't matter.

@masterkungfu: I just replied to a random comment to get started

@fv5v7: Simple listing of their abilities, observe, if you would.

Strength

Batman: 1000 lbs, possibly a bit more

Captain America: At his lowest, 1200, but in practice 5 tons at least, at most? 10 tons. He's been displayed easily overpowering people on this level, and has quite a few feats that could put him at 100 ton level, but I don't use PIS, which is what those were, but keep in mind they exist

So this puts Cap easily above Batman in strength, and at least should be able to overpower him, but let's keep going.

I won't disagree with the strength part but it ain't everything

Speed

Batman: 26-30 MPH

Captain America: 50-60 MPH

This allows Cap to easily close the distance with Batman, bringing the fight into close quarters where Cap doesn't have to deal with many of Batman's toys.

The speed you've shown only relates to travel. Besides it's not like Batman couldn't get away.

Agility/Reflexes

Batman: 100 miliseconds maybe 80 miliseconds since this is comics, but no more.

Captain America: 4-5 miliseconds, At least 16x faster than Batman, at most? 25x faster. That means should Batman strike him, Cap's reflexes would allow him to dodge and retaliate much faster than Batman could react.

Where are you getting your info from? Seriously though...

Durability

There are no numbers for this, but Cap would take it for the pure fact that, he takes more beatings than Batman, he survives larger-scale explosions, and tends to fight enemies like Iron Man-a 100+ tonner-and comes out fine.

How is this pure fact? Batman has taken heavy beatings too from guys like Superman and Darkseid, more recently from Wonder Woman. Also Iron Man ain't 100 tonner unless its Thor or Hulk-Buster.

Stamina

Captain America by far, Batman is human, he can get tired, Cap can't. If this turned into a war of attrition, Cap would take it.

Cap is human too. He may be steroid enhanced but that doesn't he won't get tired ever.

Martial Prowess

Wash, both are masters of every single Martial Art, but if I had to, I'd give it more to Cap due to his experience with Asgardian, Olympian, Wakandan, and K'un-Lun fighting styles, though I don't know if Wonder Woman taught him Amazonian Martial Arts, or Superman Kryptonian, so it could easily wash once more. If anything, Cap would gain the advantage because not only is he a master of every single Martial Art, he had to develop his own Martial Arts because the other Martial Arts didn't work for him, because he was too good for them.

Since when was Cap a master of every single Martial Art? What's Asgardian or Olympian gonna do to help him. Neither Thor or Hercules have demonstrated such. Batman has also developed his own martial arts but also in conjunction with his equipment.

Now, with pure strength Cap likely couldn't win against someone of Batman's skill, but with equal skill, that causes Cap to shoot up because he can then use the same techniques as Batman, plus more possibly, and he then has the strength to put out more damage, the reflexes to dodge more attacks, the durability to take more hits, and the stamina to keep hitting. That's what matters when two people are equal in skill on this level.

They ain't equal in skill and they wouldn't be because of the different styles they learnt. Batman has the martial prowess here even if you give Cap the physical advantages.

But then you also need to remember, Cap has a close-range weapon, which when it comes to Martial Arts, automatically gives someone a lethal advantage, sending Cap into the lead.

Yes because Batman doesn't have any weapons either...?

Defensive/Offensive Equipment

Now with armor alone I'd wash this out again, as both are made of lightweight Titanium and can withstand massive punishment, but you also have to take Cap's shield into this since that sounds as defense, and as a Proto-Adamantium/Vibranium shield, with Uru to enhance it as well, Batman does not have one weapon that can pierce that shield in his arsenal. While it may not cover enough of his body, consider this.

Batman won't need to pierce that shield. No one aims for the shield but the warrior behind it. Batman will realize Cap's reliance on the shield and try to take it away.

Both of their armors themselves might be equal, but their weapons determine who will bust through what, Batman's weapons won't go through Cap's armor easily, it's fire retardant, electrical retardant, etc.... but Cap's shield, that's gone through Adamantium once before, and regularly goes through Titanium armors, including that of Iron Man-who's even complimented Cap on the durability of his armor before. Which means should both of their weapons impact the other's armor, Cap's armor will hold up, Batman's won't

Cap has only one weapon for Bats to worry about. Bats got plenty that not even the shield will protect him from. Not to mention some of Bats weapons have weapons within themselves despite looking harmless.

Versatility

As much as Cap can use his shield for, and all he can do with it, he can't match Batman's versatility, not by a longshot, Batman can do too much with his many weapons and that gives him the win, and being able to throw multiple weapons at once can truly do some damage.

Logistics

Cap, and while you may question this one, Cap's ability to reuse his shield over and over again means that he's not running out of ammo any time soon, giving Cap the advantage in this match. Eventually, no matter how long it takes, Batman's going to run out of ammo.

The fact Cap has only one shield means once Bats disposes of that shield, Cap's got nothing left. Batman doesn't waste his equipment and knows how to use them, when to use them.

Batman's stealth

Now this category isn't just called 'Stealth', and you'll see why.

Batman is the master of stealth, very few have his abilities, he's a ninja and almost nobody can sense him, but nobody doesn't include Captain America.

The thing about Batman that people use is non-combat feats, sneaking around Superman when he's not paying attention, sneaking around other Superhumans when they're distracted with others and they can't focus on him. Besides, hearing his heartbeat doesn't work because not only does his armor quiet his heartbeat, but he has methods to slow it down, but Cap won't use that. Cap uses air currents and movement, and as someone with mass, Batman is subject to these. As he moves around, he interrupts natural air flow, and since two forces cannot occupy the same space at the same time, as Batman moves around he pushes around the air, and Cap can feel this disruption in currents, or the increase in force as Batman moves towards him, and can react to that, even in a smoke bomb he can do that and feel the movement and react. Not only that, but his eyes are enhanced to the point he'd sometimes been able to see perfectly in the dark with only the slightest bit of light around him. Even if both of those failed, this is a combat scenario and it's much harder not to make noise in combat and Cap could use that, easily. And then to really top it off, Cap's reflexes would make it entirely possible for him to simply grab Batman after the first strike and then wail on him, hard.

I'm starting to think you're air currents thing about Cap is made up. In pitch dark, Batman got nightvision in his armour so he'll see Cap perfectly too that is without any bit of light. Bats too will use confusion against Cap due to his huge versatility edge over the super soldier. Anyways point is Bats beats Cap in the dark.

Strategy

Probably the biggest surprise to most people, Cap is the better strategist, as good a strategist as Batman is, as much as he can do with his mind, as much as he's done and he's worked for, it comes down to he's only human. It takes him time to come up with his best strategies. His strategies for the Justice League took weeks or months of prep and he tends to focus on an enemy's weak spot or something he can exploit, Cap doesn't have that when it comes down to it, at least not easily detectable. Cap's different, his strategies are more grounded in simply working the battlefield to his favor, fighting until there's an opening and taking it, you have Batman taking on Superman, Cap taking on Hulk, King Thor, Iron Man, Cap doesn't use their weaknesses against them, he simply fights, and wins with his strategy. He doesn't need to work it out beforehand.

Cap is human too. Steroid enhanced yes but human too. So what if Bats strategies too weeks against the JL. This is the JL, a rather overpowered team you do realize that. If Cap tried to make strategies against the Avengers it'll take him longer than Bats against the JL. Bats has the intellect here, not Cap. Cap taking Hulk, Thor and Iron Man is storytelling. No one here or anywhere thinks Cap could really take them on without some sort of weakness in them.

Then like I said, Batman takes too long, he needs to develop something to win, he needs to develop a counter-measure, and he needs time to do it. I think a guy I met once put it nicely. If you tell Batman and Cap to kill a man who was going to conquer the entire world in a month-and their morals were removed-they'd go about it differently. Giving them the same info, same intel, they'd both come up with different results. Batman would analyze the data, spend about a week coming up with this analysis and then once he'd analyzed their every move, come up with every extra piece of info he could, he'd then spend another week working out the exact equipment he'd use, and then another working out his exact movements, and only then he'd move, and he'd do it without so much as a single witness.

Cap isn't the JL. You're comparing two completely different things. Cap wouldn't be able to use the intel as effectively as Bats. Bats taking longer only ensures mistakes won't be made. Cap would take even longer.

Cap will calculate everything that night, and have a body on your desk by the next morning, 5 o'clock at the latest. That's the difference in their strategies, Cap simply calculates things faster, thinks them through faster, and he doesn't have so much tech to sift through, he just does it, and while more people might see him, he gets the job done faster and just as good, he just goes about the actual job differently.

There's a difference between thinking fast and thinking it carefully. Sure Cap is a good strategist on the battlefield as is Bats but Bats does behind-the-scene stuff better than Cap. Bats is well known for foiling the plans of villains something Cap isn't anywhere close to as Bats. Bats is always thinking too regardless of whether he's winning or not. If Bats realizes he's losing, he isn't stupid enough to stay forever and fight. He'll leave ASAP and come up with a new tactic and with his Batcomputer in a secret Batcave he'll find one out much faster than Cap could come up with against Bats. Bats has mastered his use of his equipment and knows what to use, how to use, where to use, when to use so shifting through tech isn't a disadvantage

In the end, as good as Batman is, his only real advantage is his versatility, and Cap's durability as well as his armor and shield work for him perfectly in that aspect.

Cap doesn't bring anything new to the table Bats hasn't already come across. Sure Cap has all the physical advantages but Bats has all the mental advantages and that's where it helps him to win. If Bats realizes he can't win he won't stay for very long. Cap on the other hand, not so much.

The winner is Captain America.

Cap does have what it takes to beat Bats and Bats has what it takes to beat Cap too. Only difference is, if Bats does lose he'll learn from those mistakes and only improve himself further. Better tech, better gear, better tactics next time. Cap will still have the same stuff and his spirit but nothing knew Bats hasn't already encountered and exploited.

@masterkungfu: Where I get my info from. Normal human reflexes are 300 miliseconds Max, I actually mistyped there, but since this is comics, I wouldn't object to Batman having 100 milisecond reaction time. Cap on the other hand, has reflexes of 20 KPH, which translate to 4-5 miliseconds.

I see...

Iron Man in regular armor has lifted many things that are hundreds of thousands of tons, and Superman and Wonder Woman hold back quite a bit on Batman. I've never seen Batman take an actual punch from Darkseid.

No he hasn't. His regular armor is listed as 85 tons. Advanced armors yes at 100+ tons but regular armor no. Regardless Superman and Wonder Woman are stronger than Iron Man even when holding back.

Cap has always been a master of every single Martial Art, he's listed as a master in his stats, he's listed among masters, he's beaten master, so on, and so forth. They are about equals in Martial Arts, as I said, but due to his physical advantages, Cap takes it. It doesn't matter how good you are, if someone hits faster than you can react, can dish out more damage than you can take, and take whatever damage you dish out, you're gonna lose. Period. Especially when that person's Martial Skills are on-par with your own. If anything, Cap's Martial Arts he's developed are indefinitely better because while Batman has to use misdirection to deal with opponents like Killer Croc, a 12-tonner, Cap straight up bulldozes Rhino and flips him. That's the difference we're talking about here.

Yeah because it's not like Batman has beaten any masters himself has he...and no he and Cap aren't equals. Bats has a profound knowledge of pressure points and has beaten and held his own against the likes of Shiva and Bronze Tiger both of whom have dedicated themselves to studying martial arts their whole lives. Physical-wise goes to Cap but whether you like it or skill-wise and mental-wise Bats has this, plus it doesn't matter how Bats beats his opponents as long as he does and Rhino-thing everyone here has regarded that as PIS.

Batman doesn't use many close-range weapons.

And you can say "All we need to do is take away Thor's hammer" but if you're Punisher, doing that is an entirely different ordeal. With Martial Prowess on-par with Batman's, and the ability to dodge anything that Batman throws at him, Cap will be fine. It doesn't matter if Batman aims for the shield or not, Cap can react and block it.

Then how does he block smoke, or anaesthethic gas, or tear gas, or a exploding batarang that crumbles the walls around Cap allowing debri to fall on him?

It's not made up, look right here

That was after BP leapt at him. Bats doesn't just attack anyone before he thinks

Point is, darkness or not, Cap can fight just fine.

Except Bats will get the better of him, like it or not.

Cap isn't just on 'steroids' as you put it, he is peak Human Potential, above anything Batman can reach, Cap is enhanced, something Batman can't reach.

Now with strategy you're just fooling yourself, Cap makes perfect strategies in the time it takes Batman to even think about it. That's a fact, you're making excuses and excuses don't fly with me, Cap is the better strategist, he can think through things faster, he has a didact memory, etc... Cap doesn't just think fact, everything that takes Batman weeks or months, takes Cap seconds, you can't get around that, regardless. It's not possible, Batman is simply not enhanced enough to match Cap in strategy, he's never displayed that instant strategy, and you can't say Cap's strategies aren't as effective as Batman's, as Cap has been able to take on everyone from Rune King Thor to Iron Man.

I see...you're trying to make Cap out to be smarter than Bats which he isn't, so the excuses are on you, not me. And seriously though RKT would wipe Cap from existence without trying.

Speaking of Iron Man, Iron Man had everything on Cap, every computer in the world, and is an expert at working out countermeasures, and lost to Cap, it doesn't matter how much you know, Cap will be able to out-think Batman in all respects, give them the same amount of time, Cap's plan will be better and more thought-out, period. He doesn't need to come with anything new, for example, he is able to beat Taskmaster multiple times, when no one else can-besides Deadpool-and Taskmaster is someone who uses his ability to copy and react to Martial Arts to take out vastly superior foes. Yet Cap still beats him. Sure, maybe Batman comes in power armor, maybe he comes with a toy, but that's the same as if he came with Kryptonite to fight Superman, why would we do that to determine how a match ends up?

LOL Iron Man not beating Cap with prep? Sounds vvvvvveeeerrrryyyyy believable. Cap wouldn't be able to out-think Bats, maybe faster but not better. Bats doesn't need power armor or a toy to beat Cap but if he did at least we can agree Bats wins then.

And that's the thing, if Batman retreats that would still count as a loss, and to Cap, he won't leave because he'll think of a way to win, right then and there. Like I was saying with strategy, rarely does Cap retreat, he simply does a quick recalculation in his head. I know this example has been beaten to death, but Batman has fought Deathstroke many times and has only beaten him with the help of Nightwing, and with a perfectly planned out sneak attack, and Deathstroke only uses 90% of his brain, not 100% and doesn't have the strength feats Cap does-which I can display any time you like.

So what? Bats can afford to lose. Cap isn't some criminal holding hostages ransom. If he loses the first fight he'll just keep getting better the next fight. Cap rarely changes his tactics or his equipment and anything he brings to the table ain't new to what Bats has come across. Deathstroke is in better bit superior to Bats so losing to him isn't that bad and Cap doesn't use 100% of his brain if that's what you're implying. Feats can always be taken out of hand but DS is listed as stronger than Cap

@masterkungfu: So in other words, you're gonna straight-up deny that he's done something? Ok then buddy, whatever you say, just ignore Cap going toe-to-toe with Namor underwater, Thor villains, etc....

So basically you're just going to bring up Cap fighting superhumans like its not meant to be PIS. I could do the same with Bats but then again everyone else including you would call it PIS for Bats. Street levellers taking on superhumans head on is fuelled by writer's plot but you're just going to ignore that aren't you?

Christ, you've seen the Death Battle video haven't you? Look at this please, if you would

Oh I'm well aware of the DB video, it seems like the result really pissed you off

Captain America is just as masterful of Pressure Points as Batman

No he really isn't. You're scans don't show that. Sure Cap knows a few pressure points but nothing masterful.

Even catching a punch from US Agent, a 10-tonner quite easily, just holding onto his hand he's able to cause him intense pain. So no, the "Pressure Point" argument doesn't work. Cap has also held his own against Iron Fist, Black Panther-one of the greatest Martial Artists in Marvel-Wolverine, so on, and so forth. Captain America is Batman's equal or superior, whether you like it or not. The Rhino thing is not PIS because he's done it against quite a few enemies. He defeated two or three Super Soldiers when he had the serum stripped from himself, he defeated a fighter who'd mastered every fighting style in the world, Nimrod, three more super soldiers, a room full of Asgardian Trolls, Beast, Lady Deathstrike, Namor, Armadillo, Batroc, Taskmaster, Gambit, and Crossbones. Do not act like Cap doesn't have his own feats, he does.

Yeah...because it's not like Batman has feats of his own. He has already beaten multiple people, Bane while he was exhausted, Deathstroke, the League of Assassins, Lady Shiva, a Predator, Superman multiple times, the Hulk and dear old "surprise surprise" Captain America. So stop accusing me of your own wrongdoings.

Most smoke doesn't effect Cap, tear gas, knockout gas, none off it effects him, his system filters it out. Besides, he can jump 20 feet straight in the air, easily out of a smokescreen, and Cap has been in deep combat, he knows how to avoid thrown projectiles, he knows how to avoid flashbang grenades, he knows how to fight an enemy with tech.

At this stage, it's clear your making things up about this system. And anything you've listed for Cap, Bats can do too so don't act like this is all unique to Cap only.

You act as though Black Panther didn't think out his attack either, Black Panther is not an idiot, in fact he's as smart as Batman is when it comes to science and strategy. It doesn't matter if BP lept first, Cap's reflexes and reaction time would allow him to react to Batman, easily.

Never said BP was an idiot, you're now putting words in my mouth as excuses.

Except he won't, like it or not.

And now you're just straight up denying Cap's intelligence, which is sad, very sad. Superman and any superhuman-level opponent would wipe the floor with Batman too, Deathstroke for example does so, as I stated, and he doesn't have Batman's Martial Prowess, Cap does, and even more possibly. And Cap does use 100% of his brain, he has full mastery of his mind and body, that means 100% brain capabilities. As I stated in my original comment, that's the reason Cap would beat Batman in strategy whether you like it or not, he thinks faster, he thinks better, and Batman has shown repeated trouble with an enemy who can do that. And it wasn't Rune King Thor, it was just King Thor.

This is a load of bull. Cap doesn't use 100% of his brain. Unless you're telling me Cap can prep better than Bats in combat then there's no point debating.

On a side note you did type RKT, not KT. I quoted you exactly word for word so don't put your mistake on me like it's my fault.

No, we can't agree to that, and Iron Man had all the prep and backing he cold have asked for during the Civil War, still lost to Cap. Cap doesn't change his tactics because he doesn't need to, he wins the fight regardless because he can think on the spot, he can change his tactics on the spot, and his tactics on the spot are just as good as Batman's after however much time of prep.

So who was the villain in Civil War again? Oh wait it was Iron Man. What usually happens to the bad guys? They lose. So what next? Doom, Darkseid, Thanos all prep against Cap and fail? And seriously though, Cap offers nothing new Bats hasn't already seen.

If you're just going to ignore and deny every fact I post, then I'm done.

I haven't ignored or denied everything you said. I agreed with you on the physicals that Cap has it but everything else goes to Bats but you don't like it at all. You want to see Cap as being completely superior to Bats because you dislike Bats and disregard him and his feats. I've seen your other debates and there certainly are characters you favour more over others. Don't try to hide anything BTW. It's too late.

@masterkungfu: Then show me scans where Batman apparently shows his 'mastery' of pressure points that apparently blows Cap out of the water for some magical reason.

I don't own Batman scans but this blog should clear you up. This ain't mine.

http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com.au/p/martial-arts.html

Type Ctrl+F and type pressure points and you'll see.

Batman beats Superhumans through misdirection, Cap has been able to physically overpowered superhuman beings time and time again, there's a massive difference and when someone calls it PIS for Cap, I point to the dozens of times he's done it.

Gee...Cap a near 1 tonner physically overpowering Hulk a 100+ tonner. Yeah seems legit.

Crossovers never count, the fact you bring them up just shows you don't know what you're talking about.

Too bad. I can use them when I want. Crossovers are canon for DC.

I'm not making anything up, his system's healing factor filters it out.

Whatever...

Yes, Cap has better prep than Batman, you wanna fight me over it? I don't care. Captain America is a better strategy, his mind works at 100%,

Where's the 100% of his brain, you're talking about. The mind working at 100% isn't not 100% brain usage.

You're really gonna pull the bad guy trope on me? Ok, that's it, I'm done. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Yeah, I hate Batman, Cap and other characters may have PIS moments, but his foundation is PIS. I'm tired of people cementing every believe they have that Batman is a God and he can't be beat when it comes to strategy and martial arts, when you think about things like that and you just repeat that over and over again, I'm not gonna believe you, I've shown you the evidence, and you chose to ignore it, period.

Yeah I am gonna do that but guess what? People still say Iron Man should've won so yes I will pull that trope on you. It's pretty clear where your loyalties lie. No one believes Batman is God, you're simply overexaggerating, he can be beat and he has been beaten and vice versa. It's not that people thinks he beats everyone, it is because he makes the best out of a worst situation.

When other heroes stand in shock as the world ends Batman keeps thinking, when other heroes keep fighting with every last ounce of their breath despite hopelessly gaining nothing, Batman keeps working hard to do whatever he needs to do before he dies, when other heroes jump in to take the bullet for someone, Batman does whatever he can to have the bullet avoid both and in Cap's case when other heroes give speeches to an Infinity Gauntlet wielding Thanos, Batman works behind-the-scenes and deduces the best possible way to remove that glove. That's not Batman being God or unbeatable, that's Batman overcoming obstacles most people wouldn't even bother to. He ain't superhuman but he does make himself out more than you realize.

If this were Batman vs God, then the answer is obvious but this is Cap in the fight not God. I will say again, Cap brings nothing new to the table Batman hasn't already come across.

Then again we know where your allegiance lies.

I'm done, believe what you want. I've made my points more than clear.

I don't think so. You're tempted to reply back.