The fight would take hours and the longer the fight takes, the better captain america´s odds are... cap is stronger and has a greater stamina due to the super soldier serum... cap is superhuman, bat isn´t... that´s why cap would definitely win
The fight would take hours and the longer the fight takes, the better captain america´s odds are... cap is stronger and has a greater stamina due to the super soldier serum... cap is superhuman, bat isn´t... that´s why cap would definitely win
Because it totally comes down to a boxing match between them, in the end.
Please. Think it through. I posted a complete analysis of how the optimal fight in this scenario would go, just last page. I don't see why people are discounting Bruce Wayne's intellect and ability to solve problems without sheer strength. He's not a meathead. He's not a boxer. He's not a soldier. He's the goddamn Batman.
@minigunman123: Yo, bro. I thought you ended this already?
:| So did I. But apparently not.
Even if my scenario doesn't occur (totally plausible that it doesn't go exactly like I suggested), Batman is vastly smarter in every way than Captain America. He knows technology, geology, chemistry, physics, psychology, and he will use all of these, along with the terrain and his gadgets, to formulate a plan to win without killing the Captain. It's been shown he can do these things before; beating super humans using his brains rather than his brawn.
I don't know why Captain America is so favored to win by the masses ;-; it makes no sense.
Batman ties one end of a 60 foot section of rope around a nearby ledge. He tucks the other piece in his belt.
Batman throws his anesthetic grenade with perfect timing (and decent aim), so that it starts spewing gas before Cap even has a chance to deflect or notice it. Anesthetic grenade slows Cap down momentarily, Batman hits the eagle with a batarang (grenade covers Cap's vision as well as makes him have to cough and should also slow him down a little just from inhaling the gas, even though he won't be stopped from it and it won't be a long lasting effect due to his healing factor), Batman shoots and hooks onto him with his grappling hook and bat lasso, he then jumps off the ledge. The force from Batman's fall is, assuming he weighs 250 lbs. with gear on (possibly a modest assumption), and assuming he falls for 3 seconds (44.1 feet, should easily be within range of his grappling hook, and the range can be reached based on the parameters of the fighting zone), approximately 7,500 pounds of force (physics ftw) on Cap's wrist/body/whatever, all at once. Either he's losing a limb/appendage, or he's going over the ledge. Batman, however, has his fall cushioned from Cap being pulled, so he's only mildly discomforted, and then in a short amount of time later, he reaches the end of his original rope tether, and is dangling safely off the edge of the building, while Cap screams to his apparent death (although he's being held above the ground by Batman.)
What happens to Batman, though?
He took the grappling hook, the piece of rope in his belt, and tied them together, while he was running towards the edge, so that he's holding onto a solid piece of rope that Cap is now going to be hung from, which has much, much more force than Batman's original tumble over the ledge. Cap is knocked out, not dead, and Batman's unscathed.
I would make a badass superhero. I would be called... Physics man!
This is what you were so proud of? Damn, mate. This is a fanfic at most. Anybody can make a fanfic.
Without limiting Batman's utilities, and if Batman doesn't content himself to just 'duking it out' as he did with Deathstroke, he could actually make this a short fight.
Batman ties one end of a 60 foot section of rope around a nearby ledge. He tucks the other piece in his belt.
Batman throws his anesthetic grenade with perfect timing (and decent aim), so that it starts spewing gas before Cap even has a chance to deflect or notice it. Anesthetic grenade slows Cap down momentarily, Batman hits the eagle with a batarang (grenade covers Cap's vision as well as makes him have to cough and should also slow him down a little just from inhaling the gas, even though he won't be stopped from it and it won't be a long lasting effect due to his healing factor), Batman shoots and hooks onto him with his grappling hook and bat lasso, he then jumps off the ledge. The force from Batman's fall is, assuming he weighs 250 lbs. with gear on (possibly a modest assumption), and assuming he falls for 3 seconds (44.1 feet, should easily be within range of his grappling hook, and the range can be reached based on the parameters of the fighting zone), approximately 7,500 pounds of force (physics ftw) on Cap's wrist/body/whatever, all at once. Either he's losing a limb/appendage, or he's going over the ledge. Batman, however, has his fall cushioned from Cap being pulled, so he's only mildly discomforted, and then in a short amount of time later, he reaches the end of his original rope tether, and is dangling safely off the edge of the building, while Cap screams to his apparent death (although he's being held above the ground by Batman.)
What happens to Batman, though?
He took the grappling hook, the piece of rope in his belt, and tied them together, while he was running towards the edge, so that he's holding onto a solid piece of rope that Cap is now going to be hung from, which has much, much more force than Batman's original tumble over the ledge. Cap is knocked out, not dead, and Batman's unscathed.
I would make a badass superhero. I would be called... Physics man!
Of course all this would rely on the fact that 1) Cap would just stand there and give Batman time to tie the rope to a ledge and 2) Cap wouldn't be able to see or react to the grenade being thrown at him, and the grapple hook. Good thing he can see faster than bullets and dodge bullets from guns AFTER they have been fired from close range. Making the rest of this pretty much obsolete.
Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's been fired from close range
Batman ties one end of a 60 foot section of rope around a nearby ledge. He tucks the other piece in his belt.
Batman throws his anesthetic grenade with perfect timing (and decent aim), so that it starts spewing gas before Cap even has a chance to deflect or notice it. Anesthetic grenade slows Cap down momentarily, Batman hits the eagle with a batarang (grenade covers Cap's vision as well as makes him have to cough and should also slow him down a little just from inhaling the gas, even though he won't be stopped from it and it won't be a long lasting effect due to his healing factor), Batman shoots and hooks onto him with his grappling hook and bat lasso, he then jumps off the ledge. The force from Batman's fall is, assuming he weighs 250 lbs. with gear on (possibly a modest assumption), and assuming he falls for 3 seconds (44.1 feet, should easily be within range of his grappling hook, and the range can be reached based on the parameters of the fighting zone), approximately 7,500 pounds of force (physics ftw) on Cap's wrist/body/whatever, all at once. Either he's losing a limb/appendage, or he's going over the ledge. Batman, however, has his fall cushioned from Cap being pulled, so he's only mildly discomforted, and then in a short amount of time later, he reaches the end of his original rope tether, and is dangling safely off the edge of the building, while Cap screams to his apparent death (although he's being held above the ground by Batman.)
What happens to Batman, though?
He took the grappling hook, the piece of rope in his belt, and tied them together, while he was running towards the edge, so that he's holding onto a solid piece of rope that Cap is now going to be hung from, which has much, much more force than Batman's original tumble over the ledge. Cap is knocked out, not dead, and Batman's unscathed.
I would make a badass superhero. I would be called... Physics man!
This is what you were so proud of? Damn, mate. This is a fanfic at most. Anybody can make a fanfic.
Batman ties one end of a 60 foot section of rope around a nearby ledge. He tucks the other piece in his belt.
Batman throws his anesthetic grenade with perfect timing (and decent aim), so that it starts spewing gas before Cap even has a chance to deflect or notice it. Anesthetic grenade slows Cap down momentarily, Batman hits the eagle with a batarang (grenade covers Cap's vision as well as makes him have to cough and should also slow him down a little just from inhaling the gas, even though he won't be stopped from it and it won't be a long lasting effect due to his healing factor), Batman shoots and hooks onto him with his grappling hook and bat lasso, he then jumps off the ledge. The force from Batman's fall is, assuming he weighs 250 lbs. with gear on (possibly a modest assumption), and assuming he falls for 3 seconds (44.1 feet, should easily be within range of his grappling hook, and the range can be reached based on the parameters of the fighting zone), approximately 7,500 pounds of force (physics ftw) on Cap's wrist/body/whatever, all at once. Either he's losing a limb/appendage, or he's going over the ledge. Batman, however, has his fall cushioned from Cap being pulled, so he's only mildly discomforted, and then in a short amount of time later, he reaches the end of his original rope tether, and is dangling safely off the edge of the building, while Cap screams to his apparent death (although he's being held above the ground by Batman.)
What happens to Batman, though?
He took the grappling hook, the piece of rope in his belt, and tied them together, while he was running towards the edge, so that he's holding onto a solid piece of rope that Cap is now going to be hung from, which has much, much more force than Batman's original tumble over the ledge. Cap is knocked out, not dead, and Batman's unscathed.
I would make a badass superhero. I would be called... Physics man!
Of course all this would rely on the fact that 1) Cap would just stand there and give Batman time to tie the rope to a ledge and 2) Cap wouldn't be able to see or react to the grenade being thrown at him, and the grapple hook. Good thing he can see faster than bullets and dodge bullets from guns AFTER they have been fired from close range. Making the rest of this pretty much obsolete.
Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's been fired from close range
I'd call that PIS. Not even physically possible. Sure, maybe he can see bullets in mid-air because he's super human, but he'd have to be a speedster of at least the speed of sound to be able to react that fast.
Batman ties one end of a 60 foot section of rope around a nearby ledge. He tucks the other piece in his belt.
Batman throws his anesthetic grenade with perfect timing (and decent aim), so that it starts spewing gas before Cap even has a chance to deflect or notice it. Anesthetic grenade slows Cap down momentarily, Batman hits the eagle with a batarang (grenade covers Cap's vision as well as makes him have to cough and should also slow him down a little just from inhaling the gas, even though he won't be stopped from it and it won't be a long lasting effect due to his healing factor), Batman shoots and hooks onto him with his grappling hook and bat lasso, he then jumps off the ledge. The force from Batman's fall is, assuming he weighs 250 lbs. with gear on (possibly a modest assumption), and assuming he falls for 3 seconds (44.1 feet, should easily be within range of his grappling hook, and the range can be reached based on the parameters of the fighting zone), approximately 7,500 pounds of force (physics ftw) on Cap's wrist/body/whatever, all at once. Either he's losing a limb/appendage, or he's going over the ledge. Batman, however, has his fall cushioned from Cap being pulled, so he's only mildly discomforted, and then in a short amount of time later, he reaches the end of his original rope tether, and is dangling safely off the edge of the building, while Cap screams to his apparent death (although he's being held above the ground by Batman.)
What happens to Batman, though?
He took the grappling hook, the piece of rope in his belt, and tied them together, while he was running towards the edge, so that he's holding onto a solid piece of rope that Cap is now going to be hung from, which has much, much more force than Batman's original tumble over the ledge. Cap is knocked out, not dead, and Batman's unscathed.
I would make a badass superhero. I would be called... Physics man!
Of course all this would rely on the fact that 1) Cap would just stand there and give Batman time to tie the rope to a ledge and 2) Cap wouldn't be able to see or react to the grenade being thrown at him, and the grapple hook. Good thing he can see faster than bullets and dodge bullets from guns AFTER they have been fired from close range. Making the rest of this pretty much obsolete.
Cap dodging a bullet AFTER it's been fired from close range
I'd call that PIS. Not even physically possible. Sure, maybe he can see bullets in mid-air because he's super human, but he'd have to be a speedster of at least the speed of sound to be able to react that fast.
You realize we are talking about comic book characters...almost everything they do is "not even physically possible"
@minigunman123: I would agree with you if this was the first and only time he's ever done it, but he's been doing it for years, and he isn't even the only street leveler to do it. Daredevil, Batgirl (Cassie Cain) just to name a few. And it has been stated that his reflexes are near instantaneous. I've got more scans of him dodging bullets after they've been fired if you want to see them.
@minigunman123: I would agree with you if this was the first and only time he's ever done it, but he's been doing it for years, and he isn't even the only street leveler to do it. Daredevil, Batgirl (Cassie Cain) just to name a few. And it has been stated that his reflexes are near instantaneous. I've got more scans of him dodging bullets after they've been fired if you want to see them.
o.o Well I didn't know any of this, my apologies. I still think it's ridiculous. A bullet is typically going several hundred feet per second. They'd have to have reaction times such that they can essentially move a foot in 0.00125 seconds if the bullet is shot from roughly a foot away, but let's say it's 6 feet... that's still 0.0075 seconds to move roughly a foot, to get completely out of the way of most bullets. It shouldn't be possible for anyone without specific powers involving speed (hence why I said "not possible", I know it's a comic book, but I'm basing my gripe off of the powers or lack of powers Cap should have), to be able to move that fast, due to size, and friction with the air, and friction within the body (muscles on muscles, bones, etc., humans tend to move fairly sluggish unless trained otherwise). I guess that invalidates part of my master plan to end this thread once and for all!
Bats ties the rope and crap like before, out of Cap's sight, uses the anesthetic grenade as a gas-spewer, pointing it at Cap and simply spraying the gas at him, and then while Cap is disoriented for a moment, lasso's him and proceeds with the rest of the plan.
Did I get it right this time!? D:
EDIT: I edited my comment a little bit. Improved the maths and stuff.
Love it...on the same page that we have Captain America being shown to be able to dodge bullets...you post a picture of Batman with a Gun as proof that "Batman always wins"
@minigunman123: I would agree with you if this was the first and only time he's ever done it, but he's been doing it for years, and he isn't even the only street leveler to do it. Daredevil, Batgirl (Cassie Cain) just to name a few. And it has been stated that his reflexes are near instantaneous. I've got more scans of him dodging bullets after they've been fired if you want to see them.
o.o Well I didn't know any of this, my apologies. I still think it's ridiculous. A bullet is typically going several hundred feet per second. They'd have to have reaction times such that they can essentially move a foot in 0.00125 seconds if the bullet is shot from roughly a foot away, but let's say it's 6 feet... that's still 0.0075 seconds to move roughly a foot, to get completely out of the way of most bullets. It shouldn't be possible for anyone without specific powers involving speed (hence why I said "not possible", I know it's a comic book, but I'm basing my gripe off of the powers or lack of powers Cap should have), to be able to move that fast, due to size, and friction with the air, and friction within the body (muscles on muscles, bones, etc., humans tend to move fairly sluggish unless trained otherwise). I guess that invalidates part of my master plan to end this thread once and for all!
Bats ties the rope and crap like before, out of Cap's sight, uses the anesthetic grenade as a gas-spewer, pointing it at Cap and simply spraying the gas at him, and then while Cap is disoriented for a moment, lasso's him and proceeds with the rest of the plan.
Did I get it right this time!? D:
EDIT: I edited my comment a little bit. Improved the maths and stuff.
No apologies needed. Cap can run the 40 yard dash in I believe 3.82 seconds, so unless the "gas-spewer" can shoot a stream super far it still won' effect Cap. Or more than likely Cap would just saty out of range of the "gas-spewer" and wait for it to get empty or throw his shield and knock it out of Bat's hand then rush him. Cap's shield accuracy is really incredible, here is just one scan...
Notice the second time he throws his shield he isn't even looking at the lighter and is able to light it back up.
Notice the second time he throws his shield he isn't even looking at the lighter and is able to light it back up.
@minigunman123 said:
@tg1982 said:
@minigunman123: I would agree with you if this was the first and only time he's ever done it, but he's been doing it for years, and he isn't even the only street leveler to do it. Daredevil, Batgirl (Cassie Cain) just to name a few. And it has been stated that his reflexes are near instantaneous. I've got more scans of him dodging bullets after they've been fired if you want to see them.
o.o Well I didn't know any of this, my apologies. I still think it's ridiculous. A bullet is typically going several hundred feet per second. They'd have to have reaction times such that they can essentially move a foot in 0.00125 seconds if the bullet is shot from roughly a foot away, but let's say it's 6 feet... that's still 0.0075 seconds to move roughly a foot, to get completely out of the way of most bullets. It shouldn't be possible for anyone without specific powers involving speed (hence why I said "not possible", I know it's a comic book, but I'm basing my gripe off of the powers or lack of powers Cap should have), to be able to move that fast, due to size, and friction with the air, and friction within the body (muscles on muscles, bones, etc., humans tend to move fairly sluggish unless trained otherwise). I guess that invalidates part of my master plan to end this thread once and for all!
Bats ties the rope and crap like before, out of Cap's sight, uses the anesthetic grenade as a gas-spewer, pointing it at Cap and simply spraying the gas at him, and then while Cap is disoriented for a moment, lasso's him and proceeds with the rest of the plan.
Did I get it right this time!? D:
EDIT: I edited my comment a little bit. Improved the maths and stuff.
No apologies needed. Cap can run the 40 yard dash in I believe 3.82 seconds, so unless the "gas-spewer" can shoot a stream super far it still won' effect Cap. Or more than likely Cap would just saty out of range of the "gas-spewer" and wait for it to get empty or throw his shield and knock it out of Bat's hand then rush him. Cap's shield accuracy is really incredible, here is just one scan...
Batman is just as good, fast and as accurate with Batarangs, smoke pellets, tear gas, Stun grenades, flash bangs, Bolas, Semtex explosives, electrical charges, grappling hooks, Ninja stars, and nearly any projectile that can be thrown.@TheForgotten1 said:
Difficult :0 hmm captain I think but batman is a smart cookie but captain is smart to but captain has that super soldier serum
Bruce is peak human in conditioning and it has been stated that his body has been worked out to human physical perfection. Isn't that what Cap's Serum does for him? The gap in strength between these two is not that great at all, in fact it's too close to create a win for cap. Especially when we know Batman regularly fights people who are physically superior to him with Superhuman powers. People blow Captain America up to be so superior but at the end of the day he's just pumped off of a Serum that grants abilities just above what Batman has achieved through hard work. Add the fact that Batman is a master of over 127 martial arts disciplines and every weapon known to man (For all the people who keep saying Cap is a better trained and conditioned fighter) and uses the most effective techniques of them all and Batman is more than a match for Cap. Cap doesn't know half of the Disciplines and pressure points that Batman knows, ask wolverine from origins....
We know that Batman can Bench Press atleast 1000 lbs possibly more, and his legs are capable of lifting atleast 2500 lbs. He's fast and agile enough to evade Darkseids Omega beams, he's a known bullet dodger who also is just below Dick Grayson in Acrobatics who is regarded as the GREATEST acrobat in the DC universe while Cap isn't even stated as the third or fourth in the Marvel Universe. I fail to see what makes Captain America so superior to Batman other than his Super Serum which does not even grant him Super human attributes. The fact that batman is at the pinnacle of human perfection by natural means and not by foreign agents introduced into his body makes him the better man to me.
Bruce is peak human in conditioning and it has been stated that his body has been worked out to human physical perfection. Isn't that what Cap's Serum does for him?
Cap's serum also gives him near superhuman stamina.
@Postacrat said:
Add the fact that Batman is a master of over 127 martial arts disciplines and every weapon known to man (For all the people who keep saying Cap is a better trained and conditioned fighter) and uses the most effective techniques of them all and Batman is more than a match for Cap. Cap doesn't know half of the Disciplines and pressure points that Batman knows, ask wolverine from origins....
Cap is adept at every form of H2H known to man
Black Panther states he (Cap) "adapts instinctivley to every situation every fighting style." And it has been stated that Black Panther has studied every martial art in the world.
@Postacrat said:
We know that Batman can Bench Press atleast 1000 lbs possibly more, and his legs are capable of lifting atleast 2500 lbs. He's fast and agile enough to evade Darkseids Omega beams, he's a known bullet dodger
I'm not going to dispute Batman's bullet dodging but Cap is a known bullet dodger as well, he has dodged bullets from close range after they've been fired, multiple times, and has stated he can see faster than bullets. So it's not like he can't or hasn't either.
@Postacrat said:
just below Dick Grayson in Acrobatics who is regarded as the GREATEST acrobat in the DC universe while Cap isn't even stated as the third or fourth in the Marvel Universe.
While I'm not disputing anything you are saying. I would like to point out....
The only people, to my knowledge, with more agility than Captain America are
1) Spider-Man -superhuman agility
2) Nightcrawler - superhuman agility
3) Beast- Superhuman agility
4) Daredevil - superhuman agility (or at least enhanced agility)
5 Captain America and Black Panther
And guess what, if Batman and Nightwing were in the Marvel Universe they wouldn"t be listed as the third or fourth either.
@Postacrat said:
I fail to see what makes Captain America so superior to Batman other than his Super Serum which does not even grant him Super human attributes. The fact that batman is at the pinnacle of human perfection by natural means and not by foreign agents introduced into his body makes him the better man to me.
What makes (or made) Captain America special was (and is) that no one person can be the best in everything. To be the strongest man there is AND the fastest AND the most agile, is impossible by natural means, the Serum bypassed all that, so in a way Cap is "super" when compared to a non-enhanced human in Marvel.
Bruce is peak human in conditioning and it has been stated that his body has been worked out to human physical perfection. Isn't that what Cap's Serum does for him?
Cap's serum also gives him near superhuman stamina.
Near super human is Peak human, hence the premise of it that explains that is as close as one can get without being Superhuman. There is no regular human that can casually bench press 1000 lbs as a regular workout, even the worlds strongest man would have problems with it. Batman does this on a regular basis, and possibly even more under stress. Now I am not denying that Cap may be a bit stronger than Batman, but he faces villains stronger than him on a regular basis I don't see this as a disadvantage for Batman.
@tg1982:@tg1982 said:
@Postacrat said:
Add the fact that Batman is a master of over 127 martial arts disciplines and every weapon known to man (For all the people who keep saying Cap is a better trained and conditioned fighter) and uses the most effective techniques of them all and Batman is more than a match for Cap. Cap doesn't know half of the Disciplines and pressure points that Batman knows, ask wolverine from origins....
Cap is adept at every form of H2H known to man
Black Panther states he (Cap) "adapts instinctivley to every situation every fighting style." And it has been stated that Black Panther has studied every martial art in the world.
Yeah that's pretty cool, however Batman can do the same and is actually a master of 127 martial arts styles while Cap is only a master of about 3 or 4. A guy who can adapt to any fighting style, is not better than a guy who knows way more styles than him and is a master of every faucett of their respective disciplines and can also adapt. I'm not selling Cap short he's awesome when it comes to fighting unless he's fighting Deadpool of Wolverine, because when he's fighting them he doesn't look so much like an adapter more than a survivor a quality in which Batman also possesses. I understand your argument, but there is too much evidence that proves Batman is the more skilled martial artist. He makes Cap look two dimensional in just about everything.
@tg1982:said:
@Postacrat said:
We know that Batman can Bench Press atleast 1000 lbs possibly more, and his legs are capable of lifting atleast 2500 lbs. He's fast and agile enough to evade Darkseids Omega beams, he's a known bullet dodger
I'm not going to dispute Batman's bullet dodging but Cap is a known bullet dodger as well, he has dodged bullets from close range after they've been fired, multiple times, and has stated he can see faster than bullets. So it's not like he can't or hasn't either.
Sorry but I see cap use a mixture of his agility, speed, and shield to dodge bullets. This is still impressive but not as impressive as a guy who never uses shields. Even Robin, Nightwing, Red Robin, and Jason Todd dodge bullets on a regular basis using sheer speed and agility nothing more. I'm not saying Cap can't (I'm sure you can find a few Scan's), you just don't see it often enough to compare it to just about anyone in the Bat Family. Nor do you see it enough to describe him as better at it.
@tg1982:said:
@Postacrat said:
just below Dick Grayson in Acrobatics who is regarded as the GREATEST acrobat in the DC universe while Cap isn't even stated as the third or fourth in the Marvel Universe.
While I'm not disputing anything you are saying. I would like to point out....
The only people, to my knowledge, with more agility than Captain America are
1) Spider-Man -superhuman agility
2) Nightcrawler - superhuman agility
3) Beast- Superhuman agility
4) Daredevil - superhuman agility (or at least enhanced agility)
5 Captain America and Black Panther
And guess what, if Batman and Nightwing were in the Marvel Universe they wouldn"t be listed as the third or fourth either.
All these guys in which you have named have Superhuman attributes, and you have left out wolverine and Deadpool who have both shown more impressive feats of agility and acrobatics than Cap. Daken is even more acrobatic than Cap because he's more flexible and lacks an adamantium skeleton. Now this can be debated, I'm just going based off of Scan's and books I have read. Cap is definitely very Agile, however in my book he's not known for that as much as some of the heroes you have named. So it doesn't surprise me that they are more agile, because they should be.
The cooler thing about Nightwing is that his acrobatics and agility are on Par with Metahuman's. In fact Nightwing is described as the greatest Human acrobat in the DC Universe, and he's a master of aerial combat. Batman is right beneath him and both of them have shown comparable feats of agility to Cap and BP, especially Batman just look at my scans. Your right they wouldn't be listed as the third or fourth, they would be listed as the first or second best acrobats without being Superhuman.
@tg1982said:
@Postacrat said:
I fail to see what makes Captain America so superior to Batman other than his Super Serum which does not even grant him Super human attributes. The fact that batman is at the pinnacle of human perfection by natural means and not by foreign agents introduced into his body makes him the better man to me.
What makes (or made) Captain America special was (and is) that no one person can be the best in everything. To be the strongest man there is AND the fastest AND the most agile, is impossible by natural means, the Serum bypassed all that, so in a way Cap is "super" when compared to a non-enhanced human in Marvel.
Your using the logic of a person trying to limit a comic book character. One person who shouldn't be the best at everything doesn't change the fact that in comic's when it comes to Batman, he is. Perhaps in the Marvel Universe peak human attributes are limited to Heart Shaped Herbs, and Super Soldier Serum's, etc, but Batman is proof that in the DC universe if you work hard enough and have a driving force like seeing your parents murdered before you very eyes you can break human limitations. You want to know what makes Batman special? He's a regular Peak human being who takes on people as strong, agile, durable, and smart as Cap on a regular basis and some who are even stronger and faster. He has skills, equipment, martial arts mastery, will, escapology, Indomitable will, all weapons mastery, Stealth Mastery, expert marksmen, genius level intellect, Master tactician, and a whole lot of other qualities that like I said make Cap look 2 dimensional.
This wraps up my defenses, I don't wanna be the only one cluttering this thread with my mess. Great points though, I hope I'll catch you in another thread to debate!
Batman, he is almost on par with Cap in terms of physical ability and, His use of technology, gadgets and weapons is far ahead of cap. That brings it down to Marial art skill. I have to disagree with statments indicating that Cap is equal to Batman in terms of their Martial Arts abilities, i think that Cap is inferior to Batman in this area aswell. Just because of near equal physicals and superiour weapons, gadgets and martial arts abilities, i would give it to Batman 6/10 in a great battle
Bats physical attributes are no way comparable with caps, sorry guys. Caps is stronger (and he's way stronger then bat), he is faster, he has more durability, he has a greater stamina, its super soldier serum gives him improved healing factor, his senses are faster then any other top human being and so goes on... you guys need to understand that the serum made him perfect, and batman doesnt have anything similar running trough his veins. And their martial arts skills are even and most writers agree with that, they both the top skilled heros in their respective universe.
Yeah that's pretty cool, however Batman can do the same and is actually a master of 127 martial arts styles while Cap is only a master of about 3 or 4. A guy who can adapt to any fighting style, is not better than a guy who knows way more styles than him and is a master of every faucett of their respective disciplines and can also adapt. I'm not selling Cap short he's awesome when it comes to fighting unless he's fighting Deadpool of Wolverine, because when he's fighting them he doesn't look so much like an adapter more than a survivor a quality in which Batman also possesses. I understand your argument, but there is too much evidence that proves Batman is the more skilled martial artist. He makes Cap look two dimensional in just about everything.
Cap may be a master of only 3 or 4, but he is still (at least) proficient (most likely an expert) in every form of H2H, and he's beaten or stalemated people who were masters of every form of H2H, skill wise I never said he was better than Batman, (infact I will admit that Batman has a slight advantage in skill) but combined with his superior physicality puts him equal to Batman in H2H combat. As for Deadpool or Wolverine I don't see what they have to do with this fight between Cap and Batman, especially since I don't think Batman could beat either of them in H2H anyways, but this is neither here nor there since they don't matter.
@Postacratsaid:
Sorry but I see cap use a mixture of his agility, speed, and shield to dodge bullets. This is still impressive but not as impressive as a guy who never uses shields. Even Robin, Nightwing, Red Robin, and Jason Todd dodge bullets on a regular basis using sheer speed and agility nothing more. I'm not saying Cap can't (I'm sure you can find a few Scan's), you just don't see it often enough to compare it to just about anyone in the Bat Family. Nor do you see it enough to describe him as better at it.
What you seem to have missed is I said Cap dodges bullets AFTER they are fired,
He didn't block them, he didn't move before or as the gun was fired, moved after the gun was fired, and this is not the only time he has done this.
Granted in this one Cap does use his shield but still he brings it up after the bullet has been fired, so it is still an impressive feat of reflexive speed better than any scan I've seen from Batman
@Postacrat said:
@Postacrat said:
just below Dick Grayson in Acrobatics who is regarded as the GREATEST acrobat in the DC universe while Cap isn't even stated as the third or fourth in the Marvel Universe.
While I'm not disputing anything you are saying. I would like to point out....
The only people, to my knowledge, with more agility than Captain America are
1) Spider-Man -superhuman agility
2) Nightcrawler - superhuman agility
3) Beast- Superhuman agility
4) Daredevil - superhuman agility (or at least enhanced agility)
5 Captain America and Black Panther
And guess what, if Batman and Nightwing were in the Marvel Universe they wouldn"t be listed as the third or fourth either.
All these guys in which you have named have Superhuman attributes, and you have left out wolverine and Deadpool who have both shown more impressive feats of agility and acrobatics than Cap. Daken is even more acrobatic than Cap because he's more flexible and lacks an adamantium skeleton. Now this can be debated, I'm just going based off of Scan's and books I have read. Cap is definitely very Agile, however in my book he's not known for that as much as some of the heroes you have named. So it doesn't surprise me that they are more agile, because they should be.
That proves my point the only people who are more agile the Captain America are people with superhuman agility. Wolverine and (maybe) Deadpool are debateable in agility. And you still didn't answer where would Batman and Nightwing be ranked in this list?
@Postacrat said:
Great points though, I hope I'll catch you in another thread to debate!
@Postacrat: And also let me just say that it's cool to have a debate with someone who uses logic and who I can rationally debate with, and who doesn't try to bate and flame.
I just got done with one of them.
And though I may not agree I respect your opinion and appreciate your civility and rational debate
In the JLA/Avengers crossover, Batman had stated that Captain America can beat him, but it would take him very long time to do that. So, if it's h2h combat only, Captain certainly wins, but since it's not...Batman has access to his gadget, I would say it's a stalemate.
You guys are fools, b/c when Batman WANTS to win, he does something Cap doesnt do, HE CHEATS. Batman is no stranger to cheating for victory. Unless he's fighting a sanctioned match or something Batman doesnt believe in a fair fight.
You guys are fools, b/c when Batman WANTS to win, he does something Cap doesnt do, HE CHEATS. Batman is no stranger to cheating for victory. Unless he's fighting a sanctioned match or something Batman doesnt believe in a fair fight.
This argument doesn't really work....Cap fights lots of cheaters and he still ends up winning in the end. You would have to explain how cheating is helpful to batman and how it gives him an edge.
@GodDamnIronMan said:
In the JLA/Avengers crossover, Batman had stated that Captain America can beat him, but it would take him very long time to do that. So, if it's h2h combat only, Captain certainly wins, but since it's not...Batman has access to his gadget, I would say it's a stalemate.
Crossovers aren't canon. What batman said in JLA avengers isn't really relevant.
batman's arsenal is full of surprises. All Captain America has is his giant shield, he rarely uses his explosives or sleeping gas grenades.
Both are fighters that fight like a game of chest, they think a few steps ahead of their opponent. In this case, neither know about eachother. Captain America is not going to suspect all those pallets, batarangs, grappling gun, etc. Batman is not going to suspect the shield bouncing around or that Captain America is actually superior to him physically like Deathstroke.
@Jayfournines: Thor and Superman, yep. Superman is fast but weak against magic, and Thor has his sentient hammer that can attack and fly at 2 times the speed of light with magical strikes.
@jashro44: lets see. Cap and Bats are fighting. Batman sees Cap is using his shield as strong method of defense. Cap throws shield. Batman being the master of sleight of hand sneaks a remote Bat bomb or gas pellet if he's just trying to subdue him, as he dodges the shield boomeranging back to Cap. From there Bats just set off if need be.
Btw i guess people forget that Batman goes toe to toe with Bane(without venom), im pretty damn sure without venom Bane is a little stronger than Cap, So saying Cap strength is actually a factor is just minuscule.
@HushoftheWind: You can't use ABC logic like that, Bane and Captain America's fighting styles are vastly different. if you're going to go that route, where has Batman easily just threw a smoke or explosive at bane and it got the job done?
And if he did throw a Bat bomb, what would it really do to Cap?
@HushoftheWind: What slim said. Also Batman beat bane once and he barely won. He didn't use gas pellets against bane so I don't see why he would against cap.
@darktiger: Batman nobody knows it but Batman has almost the same physical attributes as captain America. Captain isn't superhuman for real the serum gave the peak of human conditioning on everything. Batman trained his body to that point, and plus believe it or not on average Batman is stronger cause he lifts 1000 lbs on average, and Captain only lifts 800 lbs on average on rare occasions he gets up to 1 ton or 2 tons but thats only on an adrenaline. So Batman's brains and physical attributes are no joke.
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