Batman vs Captain America

Cap in a long tough fight. I think his endurance wears Bruce out.

@sebseb: cap is the smartest fighting machine taht will ever live.

It came with the supersoldier serum

@lxlgiftedlxl: Most of the gadgets that Batman has can be negated by Cap's shield. For me Cap's physicals and reaction times>Batman's skill.

True, but that's if Batman throws them at him like a mad man, which he won't. The gear Batman has in this fight is good enough to fight Cap with if he uses it smart (which he will).

As for the reaction time and physicals they are better but not a huge game changer, especially since Batman is wearing his armor which will absorb Caps blows, also Batman's physicals and reaction time isn't that far behind Caps. I wouldn't say his physcials automatically cancel Batman's skill.

@bouncyhippo: look cap was made to master all that involved fighting and war

Thats a fact

@lxlgiftedlxl: yeah but cap is better

His physicals and reaction isn't so far out of reach that Batman can't react to and keep up. While Cap has the better physicals, Bats own physicals aren't that far behind him.

Batman does have the skill advantage on Cap. While Cap is skilled, Bats is more skilled.

And while Cap shield is durable than Bats armor, Bats can and will dodge it if thrown. If he throws it he leaves him self vulnerable, and if it starts to ricochet Bats again will dogged it.

If up close CQC Bats can easily slip in the anesthetic gas and get him that way. Plus the gadgets in this fight can easily contribute to hitting Cap with Anesthetic Gas.

@darthsamburger said:

@lxlgiftedlxl said:

@darthsamburger said:

@lxlgiftedlxl said:

@darthsamburger said:

@lxlgiftedlxl: Most of the gadgets that Batman has can be negated by Cap's shield. For me Cap's physicals and reaction times>Batman's skill.

True, but that's if Batman throws them at him like a mad man, which he won't. The gear Batman has in this fight is good enough to fight Cap with if he uses it smart (which he will).

As for the reaction time and physicals they are better but not a huge game changer, especially since Batman is wearing his armor which will absorb Caps blows, also Batman's physicals and reaction time isn't that far behind Caps. I wouldn't say his physcials automatically cancel Batman's skill.

Captain America's physical and reaction advantage is bigger than Batmans skill advantage, though. Because a statement could be made batman doesn't even have a skill advantage on Cap. Also Caps shield is obviously more durable than Bats armour. Caps shield has done some pretty crazy things, such as break ultrons neck.

His physicals and reaction isn't so far out of reach that Batman can't react to and keep up. While Cap has the better physicals, Bats own physicals aren't that far behind him.

Batman does have the skill advantage on Cap. While Cap is skilled, Bats is more skilled.

And while Cap shield is durable than Bats armor, Bats can and will dodge it if thrown. If he throws it he leaves him self vulnerable, and if it starts to ricochet Bats again will dogged it.

If up close CQC Bats can easily slip in the anesthetic gas and get him that way. Plus the gadgets in this fight can easily contribute to hitting Cap with Anesthetic Gas.

Cap has some pretty mean strength feats. Give me a few Batman strength feats please? Also even if Cap isn't as skilled in the h2h aspect, his reaction speeds should still let him be able to keep up.

In this daily work out he is Benching 1000lb: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batweightraining.jpg

He also lifted a 1000lb roof: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat1000.jpg

And his complete max is 2500lb: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batodyssey2-legpress2.jpg

I know of Cap has great strength feats, that's why I rate him a 1-2 tonner and I rate Batman at his absolute max and no higher as a 1 tonner.

I know Cap has the better physicals (but Bats can keep up) I said that already. I am saying that Batman could win in this match up due to his armor that can and will rebound Cap's strikes, due to it being very durable, His limited Gear (which is enough to assist him with the win), and the fact that he is more skilled.

His skill level is state here:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Martial%20Arts/Knowledge/batwidegyre4-463ways.jpg and http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/det411.jpg

and I do know that cap is adept in all fighting, but Bruce is a master of all fighting.

Strength

Batman: 1000 lbs, possibly a bit more

Captain America: At his lowest, 1200, but in practice 5 tons at least, at most? 10 tons. He's been displayed easily overpowering people on this level, and has quite a few feats that could put him at 100 ton level, but I don't use PIS, which is what those were, but keep in mind they exist

So this puts Cap easily above Batman in strength, and at least should be able to overpower him, but let's keep going.

Speed

Batman: 26-30 MPH

Captain America: 50-60 MPH

This allows Cap to easily close the distance with Batman, bringing the fight into close quarters where Cap doesn't have to deal with many of Batman's toys.

Agility/Reflexes

Batman: 100 miliseconds maybe 80 miliseconds since this is comics, but no more.

Captain America: 4-5 miliseconds, At least 16x faster than Batman, at most? 25x faster. That means should Batman strike him, Cap's reflexes would allow him to dodge and retaliate much faster than Batman could react.

Durability

There are no numbers for this, but Cap would take it for the pure fact that, he takes more beatings than Batman, he survives larger-scale explosions, and tends to fight enemies like Iron Man-a 100+ tonner-and comes out fine.

Stamina

Captain America by far, Batman is human, he can get tired, Cap can't. If this turned into a war of attrition, Cap would take it.

Martial Prowess

Wash, both are masters of every single Martial Art, but if I had to, I'd give it more to Cap due to his experience with Asgardian, Olympian, Wakandan, and K'un-Lun fighting styles, though I don't know if Wonder Woman taught him Amazonian Martial Arts, or Superman Kryptonian, so it could easily wash once more.

Now, with pure strength Cap likely couldn't win against someone of Batman's skill, but with equal skill, that causes Cap to shoot up because he can then use the same techniques as Batman, plus more possibly, and he then has the strength to put out more damage, the reflexes to dodge more attacks, the durability to take more hits, and the stamina to keep hitting. That's what matters when two people are equal in skill on this level.

But then you also need to remember, Cap has a close-range weapon, which when it comes to Martial Arts, automatically gives someone a lethal advantage, sending Cap into the lead.

Defensive/Offensive Equipment

Now with armor alone I'd wash this out again, as both are made of lightweight Titanium and can withstand massive punishment, but you also have to take Cap's shield into this since that sounds as defense, and as a Proto-Adamantium/Vibranium shield, with Uru to enhance it as well, Batman does not have one weapon that can pierce that shield in his arsenal. While it may not cover enough of his body, consider this.

Both of their armors themselves might be equal, but their weapons determine who will bust through what, Batman's weapons won't go through Cap's armor easily, it's fire retardant, electrical retardant, etc.... but Cap's shield, that's gone through Adamantium once before, and regularly goes through Titanium armors, including that of Iron Man-who's even complimented Cap on the durability of his armor before. Which means should both of their weapons impact the other's armor, Cap's armor will hold up, Batman's won't

Versatility

As much as Cap can use his shield for, and all he can do with it, he can't match Batman's versatility, not by a longshot, Batman can do too much with his many weapons and that gives him the win, and being able to throw multiple weapons at once can truly do some damage.

Logistics

Cap, and while you may question this one, Cap's ability to reuse his shield over and over again means that he's not running out of ammo any time soon, giving Cap the advantage in this match. Eventually, no matter how long it takes, Batman's going to run out of ammo.

Batman's stealth

Now this category isn't just called 'Stealth', and you'll see why.

Batman is the master of stealth, very few have his abilities, he's a ninja and almost nobody can sense him, but nobody doesn't include Captain America.

The thing about Batman that people use is non-combat feats, sneaking around Superman when he's not paying attention, sneaking around other Superhumans when they're distracted with others and they can't focus on him. Besides, hearing his heartbeat doesn't work because not only does his armor quiet his heartbeat, but he has methods to slow it down, but Cap won't use that. Cap uses air currents and movement, and as someone with mass, Batman is subject to these. As he moves around, he interrupts natural air flow, and since two forces cannot occupy the same space at the same time, as Batman moves around he pushes around the air, and Cap can feel this disruption in currents, or the increase in force as Batman moves towards him, and can react to that, even in a smoke bomb he can do that and feel the movement and react. Not only that, but his eyes are enhanced to the point he'd sometimes been able to see perfectly in the dark with only the slightest bit of light around him. Even if both of those failed, this is a combat scenario and it's much harder not to make noise in combat and Cap could use that, easily. And then to really top it off, Cap's reflexes would make it entirely possible for him to simply grab Batman after the first strike and then wail on him, hard.

Strategy

Probably the biggest surprise to most people, Cap is the better strategist, as good a strategist as Batman is, as much as he can do with his mind, as much as he's done and he's worked for, it comes down to he's only human. It takes him time to come up with his best strategies. His strategies for the Justice League took weeks or months of prep and he tends to focus on an enemy's weak spot or something he can exploit, Cap doesn't have that when it comes down to it, at least not easily detectable. Cap's different, his strategies are more grounded in simply working the battlefield to his favor, fighting until there's an opening and taking it, you have Batman taking on Superman, Cap taking on Hulk, King Thor, Iron Man, Cap doesn't use their weaknesses against them, he simply fights, and wins with his strategy. He doesn't need to work it out beforehand.

Then like I said, Batman takes too long, he needs to develop something to win, he needs to develop a counter-measure, and he needs time to do it. I think a guy I met once put it nicely. If you tell Batman and Cap to kill a man who was going to conquer the entire world in a month-and their morals were removed-they'd go about it differently. Giving them the same info, same intel, they'd both come up with different results. Batman would analyze the data, spend about a week coming up with this analysis and then once he'd analyzed their every move, come up with every extra piece of info he could, he'd then spend another week working out the exact equipment he'd use, and then another working out his exact movements, and only then he'd move, and he'd do it without so much as a single witness.

Cap will calculate everything that night, and have a body on your desk by the next morning, 5 o'clock at the latest. That's the difference in their strategies, Cap simply calculates things faster, thinks them through faster, and he doesn't have so much tech to sift through, he just does it, and while more people might see him, he gets the job done faster and just as good, he just goes about the actual job differently.

In the end, as good as Batman is, his only real advantage is his versatility, and Cap's durability as well as his armor and shield work for him perfectly in that aspect.

The winner is Captain America.

@darthsamburger: And you sound like someone who doesn't read Captain America.

@bouncyhippo: A grenade doesn't beat Gambit's explosion, which Cap tanked just fine, try again

@lxlgiftedlxl said:

@darthsamburger said:

@lxlgiftedlxl said:

@darthsamburger said:

@lxlgiftedlxl said:

@darthsamburger said:

@lxlgiftedlxl: Most of the gadgets that Batman has can be negated by Cap's shield. For me Cap's physicals and reaction times>Batman's skill.

True, but that's if Batman throws them at him like a mad man, which he won't. The gear Batman has in this fight is good enough to fight Cap with if he uses it smart (which he will).

As for the reaction time and physicals they are better but not a huge game changer, especially since Batman is wearing his armor which will absorb Caps blows, also Batman's physicals and reaction time isn't that far behind Caps. I wouldn't say his physcials automatically cancel Batman's skill.

Captain America's physical and reaction advantage is bigger than Batmans skill advantage, though. Because a statement could be made batman doesn't even have a skill advantage on Cap. Also Caps shield is obviously more durable than Bats armour. Caps shield has done some pretty crazy things, such as break ultrons neck.

His physicals and reaction isn't so far out of reach that Batman can't react to and keep up. While Cap has the better physicals, Bats own physicals aren't that far behind him.

Batman does have the skill advantage on Cap. While Cap is skilled, Bats is more skilled.

And while Cap shield is durable than Bats armor, Bats can and will dodge it if thrown. If he throws it he leaves him self vulnerable, and if it starts to ricochet Bats again will dogged it.

If up close CQC Bats can easily slip in the anesthetic gas and get him that way. Plus the gadgets in this fight can easily contribute to hitting Cap with Anesthetic Gas.

Cap has some pretty mean strength feats. Give me a few Batman strength feats please? Also even if Cap isn't as skilled in the h2h aspect, his reaction speeds should still let him be able to keep up.

In this daily work out he is Benching 1000lb: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batweightraining.jpg

He also lifted a 1000lb roof: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat1000.jpg

And his complete max is 2500lb: http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/bat%20pics%202/batodyssey2-legpress2.jpg

I know of Cap has great strength feats, that's why I rate him a 1-2 tonner and I rate Batman at his absolute max and no higher as a 1 tonner.

I know Cap has the better physicals (but Bats can keep up) I said that already. I am saying that Batman could win in this match up due to his armor that can and will rebound Cap's strikes, due to it being very durable, His limited Gear (which is enough to assist him with the win), and the fact that he is more skilled.

His skill level is state here:http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/Martial%20Arts/Knowledge/batwidegyre4-463ways.jpg and http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll223/darknight2k/det411.jpg

and I do know that cap is adept in all fighting, but Bruce is a master of all fighting.

Knowing more fighting styles/mastering more fighting styles doesn't mean you are going to be the better fighter.

True, but Bruce is more skilled in this case.

And as I said, even if Captain America lacks in the skill area, he makes up for it in his reaction speeds. Reaction speeds and more powerful hits>More fighting styles mastered.

And Batman's skill allows him to keep up with Cap, especially when you factor in armor and a few of is gadgets.

Oh and: Debatable whether or not that comic is canon, but there.

Its not, but it doesn't matter since the fight ended in a stalemate, like this fight will (I am just backing Bats since people assume he is useless without gadgets).

Cap's suit can protect him from electrical shock.

And he can recover incredibly fast from disorienting shock, and he's too fast for any of Batman's other gadgets.

@lxlgiftedlxl: Perhaps, but Cap is fast enough to dodge most of them, or block them with his shield if not. Or he has his body armor of course.

@lxlgiftedlxl: sorry but u got ur facts wrong

@lxlgiftedlxl: Batman's armor won't protect him at all, the problem is that Cap's shield would crunch it like a cardboard box.

I don't thinks so. Cap is a 1-2 tonner, Batman has taken beatings from Venom enhanced Bane, Killer Crock and Clayface all who are around that range of strength. Bats armor is very durable.

And Cap has microsecond reaction time is the thing, Batman won't be getting speedblitzed, but Cap's speed is great enough that he certainly isn't going to have an easy time of reacting to his attacks and most of them will probably hit their mark.

Like I said Batman can and will keep up, I didn't say it would be easy, just like Cap has to watch out for Batman.

Cap has no trouble dodging bullets after they've been fired automatically from multiple directions at near point blank range, I've seen Batman do that once, maybe twice with a single bullet from a single gun, Cap does it on a daily basis with no sweat off his back.

Batman has done it more than twice from uzi's, he has saved a kid surrounded, etc

That just puts Cap on a high enough level of speed in a street-level fight that he should be able to get more strikes on Batman, and with Cap's high strength compared to Batman's durability, and his shield, he shouldn't have any problem dealing damage to Batman with these strikes.

Still Batman would be able to keep up with him, and their blows will be even, like Batman has to watch for that shield (which is visible and Bruce knows about it due to being visible), Cap has to watch for his anestetic gas and gadgets built in to his suit (which aren't so visible). And Batman's striking power is hard enough to hurt Cap.

On top of that, Cap is superior in every physical category, he can take more hits from anything Batman throws at him,

I know he is physically superior, but he isn't out the range of Batman being able to keep up with him.

fight longer, hit harder

Batman can fight for 28 hours straight, but I doubt the fight will last that long, especially with two skilled combatants.

Hits harder is debatable, Batman has good striking feats.

and dodge more hits than Batman can dodge of his.

Debatable, both can anticipate and both have taken on the best of the best in their universe

You can't bypass that, what gadgets do Batman have that can really do anything to Cap?

Normally tear gas, sonics, explosive batarngs, but in this match up anesthetic Gas will work.

It's doubtful his batarangs would even pierce his armor, it was meant to stand up to vampire bites from the day it was created and has withstood pretty powerful slashes and hits.

No but a combination of his batarangs with smore pellets and anestetic gas will work.

Show me anything Batman has on a regular basis that he can throw out that'll hurt Cap.

Regularly speaking he has various gases (tear, fear, anestetic), explosive batarangs that look like regular ones, sonics, etc and coupled with his skill and armor he would be able to hurt Cap.

In this match up since the OP severely limited Bats, hes going to be relying on his armor (which is good enough to rebound Caps blows), Limited Gadgets (which anestetic gas is a part of) to assist him and his superior fighting skill to beat Cap.

Thats why I calling this one a stalemate.