Batman vs Black Widow (movie versions)

Avatar image for tg1982
tg1982

2833

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#201  Edited By tg1982

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@WillPayton said:

The point about poisoning the well.

It's really annoying that many people on this forum seem to think that once they've made up their mind everyone else who disagrees is obviously wrong and there's no possible room for different interpretations of the facts. Not only that, but then you have people like beatboks1 who go for the "everyone who disagrees with me is closed minded" bs. That's not an argument, that's called poisoning the well. I called him on it, and even then he seemed completely oblivious to it.

Fair enough. Nobody should talk down to another because of differing opinions, especially on comic characters, and if I have ever come off this way then I appologize for it, as it was never, and has never, been my intent. But in all fairness there are alot of Batman posters who are the same way, also.

In point of fact, I would argue that quite often the most egregious examples of this very thing are from the Batclub.

I can name a few for sure, especially one, although he seems to have mellowed out a bit.

Avatar image for beatboks1
beatboks1

10837

Forum Posts

12952

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#202  Edited By beatboks1

@WillPayton said:

@tg1982 said:

@WillPayton said:

Clearly you have a closed mind to the points being made.

No disrespect intended, but what points? One poster say that Black Widow's H2H feats aren't valid because she used gadgets, yet in EVERY H2H fight that you posters use for Bats' H2H "superiority" is LADENED with gadget using. Ra's only lost because GORDON shot down the train bridge momenarilty distracting Ra's, before that Ra's was in the dominant position. So again I ask where is the proof of movie Bats' H2H "superiority"?

The point about poisoning the well.

It's really annoying that many people on this forum seem to think that once they've made up their mind everyone else who disagrees is obviously wrong and there's no possible room for different interpretations of the facts. Not only that, but then you have people like beatboks1 who go for the "everyone who disagrees with me is closed minded" bs. That's not an argument, that's called poisoning the well. I called him on it, and even then he seemed completely oblivious to it.

I know I shouldn't take things personally (and really don't care ) but I have to call this as a point of honor. That is something I take very seriously and since my personal honor and integrity have been questioned I will offer one final rebuttal.

I've changed my mind many times on this forum when a counter argument has been made that has been sufficiently supported. From what I have seen you on the other hand have always held fast to a point of view regardless of the evidence that is offered. I have also apologized to many posters when they have pointed out that i have taken them the wrong way or when their case has been a case of my misunderstanding (subsequently not accepting) their case based on semantics. I understand that on a world wide forum there can be many different point of view and often the context of those points can vary based on cultural difference. You in fact have been one of those posters that I have apologized to on other thread (a courtesy I have never seen returned - interestingly)

So far throughout this thread to support my argument I have offered feats of the characters from both movies. I have called into question your supporting evidence because I don't believe it supports your particular stance. to counter these calls you have offered nothing further. How am I supposed to come to a different position if you wont counter an argument, but simply restate the case you made exactly the same way.

I could go through and restate every argument made but that would obviously be pointless. So instead i will just quickly restate your arguments and see if there is something I have missed that you can clear up.

I was completely undecided when I created the fight, but now I'm leaning towards Batman. I think the starting distance gives him the chance to try different tactics including trying to hide and use his stealth, or attack BW with some gadgets as she closes the distance. I'm sure he's got some flashbangs, smoke, knockout gas, or some other type of incapacitating device he can use, not to mention batarangs, and other stuff. In close h2h he has the advantage in strength and durability, plus the armor will help a lot (will reduce his mobility, but help to tank hits). Also I think they're comparable in h2h skills. BW showed great skills, but so did Batman taking out multiple trained ninjas and SWAT team members. Also, even though both are highly intelligent, I give the versatility advantage to Bruce, against because of the utility belt and suit.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have already stated why I think Batman would win. I dont really feel like going over what I already said. But, saying that she can clear 10m (and more) in less time than he can react is just ridiculous.

Also, you can keep saying "I've clearly shown" all you like, but apparently you havent since I still disagree. Like for example you're claiming that Batman's armor is useless in h2h, and since I think it's not useless than I'm obviously wrong. That's not any kind of logic, that's just you continually claiming to be right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

Lastly, you're misrepresenting what I said. I said that Batman's utility belt would be useful because he probably has things like flashbangs, smoke grenades, knockout gas grenades, etc, which he might use to gain an advantage and perhaps hide and use his stealth abilities. I never said he has "more gadgets than BW". So, why should I bother to continue the debate when you're going to make stuff up and continue to assume there's no room for disagreement, and that only your opinions are the right ones?

These (^^) were two separate posts (pages apart)

1. Your offering evidence (by your own admission) that wasn't part of the film. You're the one who chose movie versions yet you want to offer potential strategies and devices that weren't shown to be used in the movies. If you want it to be comic Batman vs movie Widow, change the OP. It's your thread. What's to say that BW's arsenal "probably" doesn't have the same. I mean come on. That's not an argument that can be taken seriously.

2. the actual movies (as stated by myself and few others) show quite clearly that his armor doesn't let him tank hits. In fact the very feat you keep offering to support him as such a great fighter also clearly shows him not doing so. Clearly from about 1minute 20 to 1 minute 40 Bruce is hurt by several of Ra's blows through his oh so mighty hit tanking armor. There's also the fact that he's been knocked out by a fall (which I believe is a hit ) that was similar size drop to some BW took ( and certainly less of a blow than the glancing strike of an enraged Hulk). his limping away from a fall, his being hurt by a dog. Sorry but as these are the evidence that has been offered to counter your stance I fail to see how his armor is going to help him all that much. It will stop a bullet (which will still hurt like hell), but he will still suffer damage just like he also did in the below scene at 40 to 50 seconds. That's not to mention the scars shown in the film when he was watching Harvey on TV. I haven't seen a durability advantage shown that can be substantiated. In fact if there is one based on the evidence of the films it favors Natasha.

Oh and by the way I didn't misrepresent what you said at all. In another post you said

To be fair, movie Batman didnt get into that many h2h fights because he used stealth to gain the advantage and take out enemies quickly. In other words, he was being smart. And his ability to make himself invisible (so to speak) was actually pretty impressive after he got his ninja training. And even before he had the combat training he was able to defeat like 6 thugs all at once with little-mid difficulty. Also, lets not forget he comes in with the armor/equipment advantage.

I think it's party that, but also partly that hardly anyone is considering the issue of equipment. For example, I already admitted that I think with the suit slowing him down, BW would be faster and more agile in h2h than Bruce. But I also think the protective qualities of the suit help to balance that. But, also, we have various equipment from the utility belt that people arent considering. All I hear is "she can dodge whatever he throws at her"... but, she cant "dodge" a blinding flashbang, or smoke, or knockout gas, etc.

Is there a way I'm not aware of, of interpreting an equipment advantage or the equipment from the utility belt that people aren't considering that doesn't imply he has more equipment. he can't dodge these things either and she's actually been shown using some of them where he hasn't.

3. How is it ridiculous exactly. She cleared two halls in IM2 that would have been 25 to 30m each in as some have said under a minute. In the above scene we have seen that Bruce can't even react to a simple blow from Ra's who has shown no where near that type of speed or agility. That feat was having to drop a dozen guards on the way, with nothing to slow her down. In the scene where we see scarecrow and the dog's he couldn't avoid a dog at 5 to 7m. the dog's weren't moving as fast as we saw Widow on screen. Nor could he avoid a van reversing in a turning ark from having just started. The evidence is pretty clear in both films that Bruce doesn't react all that quickly. In almost all movements he has been shown to move slower than the guards BW easily took down from a greater distance in her fight scenes. in fact you yourself made a post supporting this very thing

The armor must slow him down, there's no way of getting around it. It's too bulky and stiff in places, which is needed to allow it to protect from knives and bullets. Even if only by a small amount, it still slows him from his peak without it. The fact that he can still easily beat multiple trained fighters with it on just shows how great he is. In the end though, I think the effects of the armor are a wash. It will slow him down, but it protects from the knives and guns BW will be using, and it also has offensive capabilities like the blades on the forearms. If they were both fighting h2h with no weapons or equipment I think Bruce would win.

So like I said, I think the edge goes to Bruce, because of his stealth and versatility of his equipment, which he can utilize as they close from the starting 10m distance.

That brings me to another point

4. Your OP makes this a random encounter, both with standard equipment. Why would they be fighting H2H. BW used more than just guns. Bat's lower half of his face is exposed and not armored. She used electric shockers. She DID use flash bangs, and she's blood lusted. Where have we seen the Bat armor in film protect from electricity. is his face suddenly impenetrable. You also made them blood lusted. If she's out for the kill and the first few shots bounce of his chest what's stopping her from shooting him straight in the face or eye (it is only 10m).

5. You also made it a random encounter, no prep is mentioned (and let's face it random encounter implies none) so he's not going the stealth route (which he would have employed and taken her out from behind with planning and possibly won).

Batman didnt just defeat thugs, he also defeated ninjas and fought Ra's on equal terms, eventually defeating him. Bruce also showed great stealth abilities, strength, and he has the advantage when it comes to equipment. You keep trying to make it out like Batman only beat thugs, which isnt true. BW has some nice moves, but she never showed the ability to defeat a master ninja.

I'm also not sure how impressive you think it was to beat some "Russian mobsters". From what I remember, their greatest feats were that they were beat down by a girl. They didnt seem that tough to me.

6. First we have nothing to show us the skill level of the ninja's, we don't know if their fully trained or early grades. Second how is he on equal terms with Ra's in the fight scene (^^). There is about 10 to 18 seconds of that fight (of the total of about 70 seconds of the two of them actually mixing it up) where Bruce could even be considered to be even let alone better than Ra's. The rest of the actual H2H battle Ra's is clearly on top. he smashes Bruce through a window, followed by several blows to Bruce where he clearly guts in pain (oh that damn pesky armor is so good) and Ra's ends up on top of him on the floor ready to finish it. he wins thank's to the outside intervention of an ally. Bruce never showed teh ability to beat a master Ninja either, not on his own. Again ask you what were the feats for the ninja's. As I recall Bruce could beat them before he was trained so they can't be that good.

As far as I saw BW did some nice jumping around and acrobatics, all while looking super sexy, and she beat up a few dudes of whom we dont know how tough they were. So, yeah, Batman should be better at h2h.

Which is pretty much exactly what Bruce did. beat up a few dudes of whom we don't know how tough they were. because the only one we really have an idea how tough he was (Ra's - being a master) beat Bruce in actual combat ability at every turn.

In closing.

Of course "there's possible room for different interpretations of the facts" (to quote you) but you haven't offered anything for me to look at them in a different way. I believe I have tried to, if I haven't call me on it and I will try to support my position (or if I can't possible and likely see that different interpretation ). I apologize to anyone this post or any others I've done on this thread offends (and if so please PM me so i can know the error of my actions). I was going to simply reply in PM and flag the post, but as I was vilified (in a way that verges on slander) on a public forum I wanted to publicly defend my actions.

I again apologize for the long winded rant, but I'm an old 54yr old ex serviceman who's only real thing of value is my honor and integrity and I will not brook that being denigrated

the Flag of course will be forthcoming.

/end rant

Avatar image for saren
Saren

27947

Forum Posts

213824

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 14

User Lists: 12

#203  Edited By Saren

Widow. Better feats. It's that simple.

Avatar image for thamessenger07
ThaMessenger07

1864

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#204  Edited By ThaMessenger07

@Super_SoldierXII: I'm well aware 616 Steve is Enhanced & above Peak Human. But 1616 Cap is more in the realm of "Bench pressing a Toyota" and has feats that put him in the 4 ton range. Cap in the film while never had a feat quite there I would say the Overhead Press of a Motorcycle with 2 women on it without breaking a sweat may be a little above 616 Cap. That and the way people went flying from his strikes.

Avatar image for thamessenger07
ThaMessenger07

1864

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#205  Edited By ThaMessenger07

@nick_hero22: Olympic level is Twice your Body weight, Peak is between Twice your Weight up to 800 lbs.

800 lbs and up is generally considered superhuman

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

It goes like this. Movie Widow stomps, but Comic Batman sh*t stomps Widow effortlessly in style.

Avatar image for beatboks1
beatboks1

10837

Forum Posts

12952

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#207  Edited By beatboks1

undoubtedly. though if Movie Bats had Prep that would be another story. al la someone guiding him through a building with tech while SWAT are taking it. breaking into a building in Asia, sending an ally with a supertank and rockets to stop a train from reaching its destination. Having that same tank break a party of hoods as a distraction ( car park with scarecrow)That of corse isn't the battle the way its set up. in such a batle as that his stealth etc would. ome in.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@beatboks1 said:

undoubtedly. though if Movie Bats had Prep that would be another story. al la someone guiding him through a building with tech while SWAT are taking it. breaking into a building in Asia, sending an ally with a supertank and rockets to stop a train from reaching its destination. Having that same tank break a party of hoods as a distraction ( car park with scarecrow)That of corse isn't the battle the way its set up. in such a batle as that his stealth etc would. ome in.

Well if he had full sonar tech, prep and was in the SWAT building at night, against Black Widow who doesn't know where Bats is, well he'd most likely win but yeah in this situation (bloodlusted) she puts a bullet in his brain, I just can't help feel that Movie Batman's skills are being underrated here.

Avatar image for super_soldierxii
Super_SoldierXII

7664

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@comicdude23 said:

It goes like this. Movie Widow stomps, but Comic Batman sh*t stomps Widow effortlessly in style.

I would not say any version 'stomps' the other personally. Movie Batman would still give Movie Widow a run, but based off hand to hand feats Widow is the more impressive.

While comic Batman definitely wins a solid majority over comic Widow, she's not going to be so effortlessly pimp slapped aside like that either ... she's given Marvel's big guns trouble. She'd put up a fight for sure in a random.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@comicdude23 said:

It goes like this. Movie Widow stomps, but Comic Batman sh*t stomps Widow effortlessly in style.

I would not say any version 'stomps' the other personally. Movie Batman would still give Movie Widow a run, but based off hand to hand feats Widow is the more impressive.

While comic Batman definitely wins a solid majority over comic Widow, she's not going to be so effortlessly pimp slapped aside like that either ... she's given Marvel's big guns trouble. She'd put up a fight for sure in a random.

She may put up a fight against the Comic version but he has had far superior feats and is much better martial artist.

Avatar image for desmond006
desmond006

616

Forum Posts

5

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 2

#211  Edited By desmond006

I say Black widow shoots Batman in the face. So she wins.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

This is spite.

Avatar image for picard1701
Picard

1142

Forum Posts

19

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#213  Edited By Picard

@comicdude23 said:

This is spite.

No it isn't and Batman would win. I will elaborate later why. :)

Avatar image for zfightersfan100
zfightersfan100

10

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#214  Edited By zfightersfan100

Batman would beat her because of his stealth and smartness.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

Yes it is. First off their bloodlusted so they won't be able to think properly, he's in full sight of her and he's wearing his stiff necked Begins suit, she has her guns and she's bloodlusted, he's also in sight with limited movement. He gets shot in the brain...

Avatar image for erik
Erik

32502

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#216  Edited By Erik

@beatboks1:

You still are a top contender in my book beatboks.

Avatar image for picard1701
Picard

1142

Forum Posts

19

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#217  Edited By Picard

@zfightersfan100 said:

Batman would beat her because of his stealth and smartness.

Agree.

@comicdude23: because Batman never dealt with gunman before? LOL

Avatar image for erik
Erik

32502

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#218  Edited By Erik

@Picard said:

@zfightersfan100 said:

Batman would beat her because of his stealth and smartness.

Agree.

@comicdude23: because Batman never dealt with gunman before? LOL

Oy...

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@Picard said:

@zfightersfan100 said:

Batman would beat her because of his stealth and smartness.

Agree.

@comicdude23: because Batman never dealt with gunman before? LOL

Hahaha, no. She isn't a thug with a gun you know....

Avatar image for picard1701
Picard

1142

Forum Posts

19

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 1

#220  Edited By Picard

@comicdude23 said:

@Picard said:

@zfightersfan100 said:

Batman would beat her because of his stealth and smartness.

Agree.

@comicdude23: because Batman never dealt with gunman before? LOL

Hahaha, no. She isn't a thug with a gun you know....

You know he have greater experience dealing with gunwilding opponents that she have. Stealth is the key to deal with guns. What's more... bloodlusted? So he can use explosives, mini-mines to blow her up.

@Erik: I will respond to you later.

Avatar image for erik
Erik

32502

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#221  Edited By Erik

@Picard:

You really do not have to.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@Picard: Most of the armed thugs he was fighting were extremely afraid of him and shot out of fear, it screwed up their accuracy. BW is trained for situations like this (but blood-lust just means she goes all out), and she wouldn't be afraid of Batman. How can he use stealth if she can see him? Anyways, do you not know what blood-lust means? It means when a character fights in range and has little if none moral. Many people forget that, when did he use explosives as weapons??? He just used them as distractions and in a blood-lust situation he wouldn't even be able to think properly as he should be. Dude I also want Batman to win and he's way cooler than BW but their's no way I see him winning under these rules...

Avatar image for thamessenger07
ThaMessenger07

1864

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#223  Edited By ThaMessenger07

Why are people pro Batman assuming he has the gadgets they claim. He will only have what he has used in the movies. He will only use them as he has in the movies. He should really only have what was standard gear in the movie(but we'll leave this alone). Batman in the movies without gear would get his shit pushed in by Jason Bourne.

In The Avengers Widow showed she was capable of defeating multiple aliens, with a physiology far greater then Humans. She was able to disarm and defeat them with there own equipment. She caught a space ship flying overhead, at easily 100mph with one hand. She then climbed the ship and used the alien to navigate it. Batman is smarter? She out smarted a being from another world known as the God of Mischief.

Batman in the Nolan movies was brought down to a pseudo realistic level, Widow was kept quite close to her Comic counterpart.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@ThaMessenger07: Batman would not lose to Jason Bourne...btw, some of that stuff in The Avengers was PIS...

Avatar image for thamessenger07
ThaMessenger07

1864

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#225  Edited By ThaMessenger07

@comicdude23: What would make Batman from the movies, without Gear, Superior to Bourne? He fought nothing but Thugs. Bourne fought groups of agents like they were jokes & bested any Agent on his level. Batman in both movies fought no1 of substantial skill. The LoS in the first movie never showed any real skill outside of there stealth. Not to mention the trouble Bruce went through in all his plans with Billions of Dollars at his disposal, while Bourne took down a covert division of the CIA by himself with what was available at the moment.

And it's only PIS if it doesn't coincide with whats been established. In Iron Man 2 she displayed skills and abilities superior to the average human. In Avengers they were highlighted. What's the PIS? Her comic counterpart is quite capable of everything she did in the movie, so why must the film version be watered down, when she proved to be similarly skilled?

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@BlueLantern1995 said:

Batman has great movie feats and so does Black Widow. Combat wise, I think I would have to say a tie( based on feats) however he was trained by Ra's Al Ghul who said he was a greatly trained warrior. This I would say gives me the ability to say a win in mano a mano.
Vs. Crowds this is a win( I'm sorry Batman fans) for Black Widow(yeah!). In the same scenario Black Widow has taken no damage whatsoever beaten all her opponents and moved on to other fights, in a similar scenario Batman took damage( while using all his gadgets) took a shotgun blast and got wounded( as seen in Dark Knight introduction). This I think is a clear win for Black Widow in Vs. Crowds
When it comes to paraphernalia fights I think this could go either way. If going for vs crowds its a tie when for each other Batman barely wins. If it goes to batarangs Black Widow could shoot them out of the sky. This I give to Batman.
But when it comes to it in a final battle. I think that depending on the scenario it could go either way. Black Widow also has another quality... Good looks, something she could use to her advantage, he gets attracted and she shoots him in the face( a place he is vulnerable).
This I would give to Black Widow in a 6/10 scenario.

Did you really just say that?

Avatar image for erik
Erik

32502

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#227  Edited By Erik

@ThaMessenger07:

I believe in BU, Bourne was actually taking down agents that were supposed to be superior, not just his equal.

Avatar image for deactivated-60d8e8271946e
deactivated-60d8e8271946e

11901

Forum Posts

2488

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 6

User Lists: 5

@ThaMessenger07 said:

@comicdude23: What would make Batman from the movies, without Gear, Superior to Bourne? He fought nothing but Thugs. Bourne fought groups of agents like they were jokes & bested any Agent on his level. Batman in both movies fought no1 of substantial skill. The LoS in the first movie never showed any real skill outside of there stealth. Not to mention the trouble Bruce went through in all his plans with Billions of Dollars at his disposal, while Bourne took down a covert division of the CIA by himself with what was available at the moment.

And it's only PIS if it doesn't coincide with whats been established. In Iron Man 2 she displayed skills and abilities superior to the average human. In Avengers they were highlighted. What's the PIS? Her comic counterpart is quite capable of everything she did in the movie, so why must the film version be watered down, when she proved to be similarly skilled?

Thugs and ninja's, besides we don't know how good those agents were, same could be said for the ninja's but Bruce was mastering stealth and fighting styles in his journey. A-lot of the Borune film was done for the sake of the plot, do you really think an agent could take on the CIA?

In Avengers she should have had her arm ripped off when Cap threw her, I mean yes she had SKILLS superior to the human but it was never shown that she was super-human. In Comics their is no real logic...

I'm assuming you mean Bourne is unarmed, right?

For the sake of it I will leave this as this has nothing to do with the thread at all, but with his gear I see him taking a solid majority.

Avatar image for thamessenger07
ThaMessenger07

1864

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#229  Edited By ThaMessenger07

@comicdude23: With Gear Batman Taking the Solid Majority on Bourne with basic Equipment? Hell Yes. Batman in Suit with no gear I'd give to him, not easily but he wins. Now both in Civilian Clothes, I say Bourne. Agreed though, this is off topic and sorry for taking it here.

As for Widow, The Film was clearly not mad under a Realistic pretense. Hawkeye was making perfect shots from behind his back without looking. The Avengers had as little room for realism as the comics do. In the comics She's considered Olympic to Peak. Well the movie displayed that level.

@Erik: Yes, they were supposedly superior.

Avatar image for willpayton
willpayton

22502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#230  Edited By willpayton

@tg1982 said:

@WillPayton said:

The point about poisoning the well.

It's really annoying that many people on this forum seem to think that once they've made up their mind everyone else who disagrees is obviously wrong and there's no possible room for different interpretations of the facts. Not only that, but then you have people like beatboks1 who go for the "everyone who disagrees with me is closed minded" bs. That's not an argument, that's called poisoning the well. I called him on it, and even then he seemed completely oblivious to it.

Fair enough. Nobody should talk down to another because of differing opinions, especially on comic characters, and if I have ever come off this way then I appologize for it, as it was never, and has never, been my intent. But in all fairness there are alot of Batman posters who are the same way, also.

I'm not denying that there's plenty of fanboism to go around. But sometimes people disagree on the outcome of a battle for legitimate, disputable reasons. One may not agree with their view, but it doesnt mean they reached it because of a pre-conceived idea of who they want to win.

Personally the more I read the thread the more I'm leaning to the side that BW would win, mainly because of the points about her superhuman-like feats, like taking a hit from Hulk. Obviously Batman (from the movies) isnt in such a league since he's meant to be more realistic. But I still think in other ways he still has things he could do to gain an advantage. I just dont have that much time recently to keep up with threads on this forum, so I've had to reduce my number of posts. Sorry, but sometimes that means I fail to respond to certain points made by people. It doesnt mean I'm ignoring those points, just I dont have time to write.

Avatar image for willpayton
willpayton

22502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#231  Edited By willpayton

@Erik said:

Having read a little of the conversations you have had with some users here, how exactly are you different from the people you have a problem with?

I dont have time to look this up, but I can give examples. For one, Hal Jordan is my favorite hero. But, on at least 2 occasions that I can remember I've written plainly that he would lose in fights even though I like him. That's an actual case where I have a particular favorite, but I dont care to make arguments for why he'd win when obviously he woulnt. As far as Batman and Black Widow, I dont particularly care who'd win. It just seems that people are ignoring some aspects of the fight that I think could be important, and when I think about it I can see how Batman would win.

Avatar image for erik
Erik

32502

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#232  Edited By Erik

@WillPayton said:

@Erik said:

Having read a little of the conversations you have had with some users here, how exactly are you different from the people you have a problem with?

I dont have time to look this up, but I can give examples. For one, Hal Jordan is my favorite hero. But, on at least 2 occasions that I can remember I've written plainly that he would lose in fights even though I like him. That's an actual case where I have a particular favorite, but I dont care to make arguments for why he'd win when obviously he woulnt. As far as Batman and Black Widow, I dont particularly care who'd win. It just seems that people are ignoring some aspects of the fight that I think could be important, and when I think about it I can see how Batman would win.

I just think it is silly to bag on another user for doing something that I have seen you do in this very thread. You were not calling Beatboks out for liking a particular character over another, you called him out because he did not concede to your argument. If you think someone is ignoring aspects then by all means, point them out. But you pointing them out does not mean it changes the outcome by any means. I can go into a Hulk vs Wolverine boxing thread and say that no one has considered that Wolverine can "channel the animal" just like someone has tried in the past but it changes nothing about the outcome.

Avatar image for vuviper
vuviper

5651

Forum Posts

11189

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#233  Edited By vuviper

@Erik said:

I just think it is silly to bag on another user for doing something that I have seen you do in this very thread. You were not calling Beatboks out for liking a particular character over another, you called him out because he did not concede to your argument. If you think someone is ignoring aspects then by all means, point them out. But you pointing them out does not mean it changes the outcome by any means. I can go into a Hulk vs Wolverine boxing thread and say that no one has considered that Wolverine can "channel the animal" just like someone has tried in the past but it changes nothing about the outcome.

I was hoping to forget

Avatar image for erik
Erik

32502

Forum Posts

284

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 10

User Lists: 0

#234  Edited By Erik

@vuviper:

Lol glad someone got the reference.

Avatar image for willpayton
willpayton

22502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#235  Edited By willpayton

@beatboks1 said:

I know I shouldn't take things personally (and really don't care ) but I have to call this as a point of honor. That is something I take very seriously and since my personal honor and integrity have been questioned I will offer one final rebuttal.

You shouldnt take anything on this thread personal because there hasnt been any personal attack.

Sorry I dont have time to reply to your post point by point, I just dont have the time. But I think you made some good points and I'm leaning more towards BW winning. I might even say that I now think she wins 6/10 times.

But I will (again) dispute one point in particular, that being that (you claim) Batman cant react to someone closing the distance at them from 10m. The reason I said it's ridiculous is because at top sprinting speed a human can cross 10 meters in about 1 second. That's assuming they're at top speed all the way. In reality they have to accelerate to it, so more like 1.5 seconds. Then there's the fact that at the start of the fight it's unlikely BW's first move will be to start running at full speed at Batman, without even thinking about what to do. On the other side, humans can react to things within 100 ms. That means Batman will have plenty of time to see her start running at him and react. It would only take a second to reach for something on the utility belt and deploy it.

@beatboks1 said:

I was going to simply reply in PM and flag the post, but as I was vilified (in a way that verges on slander) on a public forum I wanted to publicly defend my actions.

I again apologize for the long winded rant, but I'm an old 54yr old ex serviceman who's only real thing of value is my honor and integrity and I will not brook that being denigrated

the Flag of course will be forthcoming.

/end rant

Vilified? Flag post? Your honor and integrity being denigrated? What exactly are you on about?

Here is exactly what happened...

You posted this:

@beatboks1 said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: I love how all the points I made were ignored and now brought up again by others. :P

Anyhoo, Black Widow wins beacause she is more agile, faster and a better H2H fighter. And no one on Batman's side has really provided any proof. Just everyone going in circles.

feel somewhat the same. Clearly those on the other side of the argument (the minority of three or four) have a closed mind to the points being made.

where you claim that clearly everyone on the other side of the argument has closed minds.

Then I posted this:

@WillPayton said:

@beatboks1 said:

feel somewhat the same. Clearly those on the other side of the argument (the minority of three or four) have a closed mind to the points being made.

Good job of poisoning the well.

where I call you for poisoning the well, which is exactly what you did.

So please show me where I vilified you or denigrated your honor or integrity? Also, on what grounds would you flag my post? I wasnt the one calling you closed minded, I'M THE ONE who should be insulted. You basically said that the reason I thought Batman would win is because I'm biased and closed minded, and not because I might have legitimate reasons that you might disagree with. But, I'm not trying to flag your post or complain about my honor being denigrated or whatever.

Seriously, this is what I mean that people on this forum take this WAY too seriously. If someone disagrees with the outcome of a battle, it MUST be because they're closed minded and obviously biased. And if they call you on something YOU ACTUALLY DID then they're INSULTING YOUR HONOR. Wow!

Avatar image for vuviper
vuviper

5651

Forum Posts

11189

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#236  Edited By vuviper

@Erik said:

@vuviper:

Lol glad someone got the reference.

That guys posts were both aggravating and hilarious. But yeah, don't think WillPayton was here for that.

Avatar image for willpayton
willpayton

22502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#237  Edited By willpayton

@vuviper said:

@Erik said:

@vuviper:

Lol glad someone got the reference.

That guys posts were both aggravating and hilarious. But yeah, don't think WillPayton was here for that.

Wish I knew what you guys are talking about.

But I will say that the internet can be especially awkward when we're trying to determine intent purely from textual messages. If I posted anything that aggravated or insulted people, it wasnt meant as such. If I was insulting with my language at any time, I apologize. Everyone has times when they're grumpy. =)

Avatar image for static_shock
Static Shock

53205

Forum Posts

12480

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 1

User Lists: 0

#238  Edited By Static Shock

Please stop flagging NightFang's post. I've already said something to him.

Avatar image for vuviper
vuviper

5651

Forum Posts

11189

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 13

#239  Edited By vuviper

@WillPayton said:

@vuviper said:

@Erik said:

@vuviper:

Lol glad someone got the reference.

That guys posts were both aggravating and hilarious. But yeah, don't think WillPayton was here for that.

Wish I knew what you guys are talking about.

But I will say that the internet can be especially awkward when we're trying to determine intent purely from textual messages. If I posted anything that aggravated or insulted people, it wasnt meant as such. If I was insulting with my language at any time, I apologize. Everyone has times when they're grumpy. =)

I long ago abandoned emotion in order to stay objective in my actions to maintain order and protect the universe

Avatar image for beatboks1
beatboks1

10837

Forum Posts

12952

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#240  Edited By beatboks1

@WillPayton said:

Vilified? Flag post? Your honor and integrity being denigrated? What exactly are you on about?

Here is exactly what happened...

This is the post I took offense to

The point about poisoning the well.

It's really annoying that many people on this forum seem to think that once they've made up their mind everyone else who disagrees is obviously wrong and there's no possible room for different interpretations of the facts. Not only that, but then you have people like beatboks1 who go for the "everyone who disagrees with me is closed minded" bs. That's not an argument, that's called poisoning the well. I called him on it, and even then he seemed completely oblivious to it.

You stated that I have an opinion that I haven't because you've taken a comment out of context. Yes I posted

@beatboks1 said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: I love how all the points I made were ignored and now brought up again by others. :P

Anyhoo, Black Widow wins beacause she is more agile, faster and a better H2H fighter. And no one on Batman's side has really provided any proof. Just everyone going in circles.

feel somewhat the same. Clearly those on the other side of the argument (the minority of three or four) have a closed mind to the points being made.

To which you say

where you claim that clearly everyone on the other side of the argument has closed minds.

That isn't what I said. There was the context of a two way conversation involved. What my post says (as it's answering another post) is that clearly anyone why isn't even looking at the arguments we've offered against their case is closed minded. I believe that is what being closed minded is. I've questioned several of the suppositions of posters on the Batman side of the argument (as had Shawnbaby ) and had nothing offered to answer our queries. I have also tried to answer any questions made of my stance when asked, it's my general practice to address a debate offered that I disagree with point by point (as much as possible). That is demonstrating that I am trying to look at both sides of the argument. My actions and debating on this thread has shown the exact opposite intent to the one you claim in that post that I have. The so called seeming oblivious to it (when being called on "poisoning the well"), was my questioning what points had I not addressed. Because after re-reading the thread three times tonight I can't find any.

When you said "good job poisoning the well. Shawnbaby replies "asking for proof batman wins isn't "poisoning the well" you replied "Clearly you have a closed mind to the points being made." Since both of us had offered counter points or called into question almost every "point being made" on the Batman side of the argument, I'd call that evidence that we had been keeping an open mind. Since every question we both had on those feats because in our view they didn't support the argument offered was ignored that demonstrated that I had a right to feel the arguments we'd offered were falling on deaf ears. In other words we had every right to feel that.

If I've taken you out of context I apologize, Obviously if you believe that is what I've said you have taken mine out of context.

As to the Batman reaction thing, fair enough. I don't quite see it that way but I can accept if you do. In so far as the Nolan films were made to be more realistic than obviously he'd be able to react in time for 10m. I just don't see how those reaction (as I've seen them) would prevent BW (as we've seen her) from getting close enough to use her advantages and diminish his. had you simply said it that way initially i would have already conceded that point.

Avatar image for shawnbaby
Shawnbaby

11064

Forum Posts

103

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#241  Edited By Shawnbaby
@WillPayton: @Beatboks1: 
 
Don't fight...you're both very pretty :D
Avatar image for tg1982
tg1982

2833

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#242  Edited By tg1982

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Avatar image for shawnbaby
Shawnbaby

11064

Forum Posts

103

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#243  Edited By Shawnbaby
@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Yeah...and neither one of them has thrown the other several feet yet.
Avatar image for beatboks1
beatboks1

10837

Forum Posts

12952

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#244  Edited By beatboks1

@Shawnbaby said:

@WillPayton: @Beatboks1: Don't fight...you're both very pretty :D

There's nothing to "fight" over. it's clearly a misunderstanding, Just offering the usual courtesy of a reply. Even if that courtesy is as simple as (like Picard did to me on page 3 or 4) some good points.

Avatar image for tg1982
tg1982

2833

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#245  Edited By tg1982

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Yeah...and neither one of them has thrown the other several feet yet.

Good, if that happens then it would be a game changer. ;)

Avatar image for shawnbaby
Shawnbaby

11064

Forum Posts

103

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#246  Edited By Shawnbaby
@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Yeah...and neither one of them has thrown the other several feet yet.

Good, if that happens then it would be a game changer. ;)

Yeah, Batman has that armor...he might able to survive such harsh punishment...but Widow...she's just not built to survive that kind of physical trauma
Avatar image for tg1982
tg1982

2833

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#247  Edited By tg1982

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Yeah...and neither one of them has thrown the other several feet yet.

Good, if that happens then it would be a game changer. ;)

Yeah, Batman has that armor...he might able to survive such harsh punishment...but Widow...she's just not built to survive that kind of physical trauma

Unless she landed on her bum...did you notice, or was it just me, but damn Widow had a nice plump little fanny. :P

"I like big butts and I can not lie. You otha brothas can't deny.....baby got back!!" LOL. :-P

Avatar image for beatboks1
beatboks1

10837

Forum Posts

12952

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 6

#248  Edited By beatboks1

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Yeah...and neither one of them has thrown the other several feet yet.

Good, if that happens then it would be a game changer. ;)

Yeah, Batman has that armor...he might able to survive such harsh punishment...but Widow...she's just not built to survive that kind of physical trauma

Unless she landed on her bum...did you notice, or was it just me, but damn Widow had a nice plump little fanny. :P

"I like big butts and I can not lie. You otha brothas can't deny.....baby got back!!" LOL. :-P

LOL maybe that's what saved her from that side ways Hulk slap. She hit with her but.

Haven't heard "sir mix a lot' in years. great song (even if i'm more of a metal/ heavy Rock/ Blues kind of guy).

Avatar image for tg1982
tg1982

2833

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 4

#249  Edited By tg1982

@beatboks1 said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@tg1982 said:

@Shawnbaby: Wow, this is still going on?

Yeah...and neither one of them has thrown the other several feet yet.

Good, if that happens then it would be a game changer. ;)

Yeah, Batman has that armor...he might able to survive such harsh punishment...but Widow...she's just not built to survive that kind of physical trauma

Unless she landed on her bum...did you notice, or was it just me, but damn Widow had a nice plump little fanny. :P

"I like big butts and I can not lie. You otha brothas can't deny.....baby got back!!" LOL. :-P

LOL maybe that's what saved her from that side ways Hulk slap. She hit with her but.

Haven't heard "sir mix a lot' in years. great song (even if i'm more of a metal/ heavy Rock/ Blues kind of guy).

I'm more into rock, too but I still like the hits.

And all I'm gonna say is when she was talking to Loki, all I was doing was staring at her badonkadonk (spelling?) and going "daaaaaaaaaaamn girl"

LOL :)

Avatar image for willpayton
willpayton

22502

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#250  Edited By willpayton

@beatboks1 said:

@Shawnbaby said:

@WillPayton: @Beatboks1: Don't fight...you're both very pretty :D

There's nothing to "fight" over. it's clearly a misunderstanding, Just offering the usual courtesy of a reply. Even if that courtesy is as simple as (like Picard did to me on page 3 or 4) some good points.

Agreed, there's nothing to fight over. I apologize, I didnt mean to insult you. I just thought that there's enough room for interpretation on the relative abilities of the combatants to justify it being interpreted either way. I've come to think that probably BW does win this more than Batman, especially since the movie Batman is meant to be more "realistic". I still think he's more skilled, but the feats do tend to suggest BW would win.