#301 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Yeah, but I honestly don't really judge fighting skills based on how many fighting styles a character knows though. For example, Daredevil is one of the elite fighters of the Marvel, and has beaten or stalemated some of the best in Marvel like Captain America, Wolverine, Iron Fist, Taskmaster, etc. yet he has been stated to only know a idiosyncratic mixture of Boxing, Ninjutsu, Judo, and Aiki- Jujutsu combined with his superhuman agility. Going by that, he really shouldn't be that great of a fighter since he only knows 4 martial arts, but he is. I really just try go by feats at the end of the day..

#302 Edited by Omnicrono (1774 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

@omnicrono:What intellect showings does batman have? Lucius fox built his arsenal, he's not in this. Call me when Bat's develops his own brand of physics.

Serious? He has a ton of intellect showings.

Anyway, he doesn't need to have developed his own brand of physics to beat his opponent. He can do that using superior strategy, deduction, and tactics. I'll take the genius who excels in those categories over the guy that excels in only particle physics and scientific theory. Any day.

#303 Posted by Lvenger (19277 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: A fair assessment but Batman does have the Bat CD with 127 styles on that he gave to Cassie

And T'Challa has an on panel confirmation that he knows every fighting style on Earth

But of course, feats are just as important and Daredevil has done well against fighters with more styles under their belts.

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#304 Posted by Omnicrono (1774 posts) - - Show Bio

@omnicrono:

True. Batman has an advantage that his set of smarts are very efficient and easily applied to life. While other geniuses do edge Bruce out in terms of just pure genius, he can apply his set of smarts to battle and real life because he is very multi dimensional. For example, if you were to compare to Iron Man and Batman, I'd say Tony has the edge in pure genius, but put those two in a real life battle/situation where they have to utilize multiple skills to get things done, Bruce would EASILY outdo Tony because he has a skill set that he can apply in different ways to real life while Tony is somewhat one dimensional, and sticks mostly to technology. To sum it up, Bruce's smarts are much more useful and applicable due to their diversity when compared to most other comic geniuses who just sit on their a%ses writing long quantum physics. Lol. I would take Bruce's set smarts over any other comic genius really.

Haha! Exactly.

#305 Edited by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@omnicrono:

True. Batman has an advantage that his set of smarts are very efficient and easily applied to life. While other geniuses do edge Bruce out in terms of just pure genius, he can apply his set of smarts to battle and real life because he is very multi dimensional. For example, if you were to compare to Iron Man and Batman, I'd say Tony has the edge in pure genius, but put those two in a real life battle/situation where they have to utilize multiple skills to get things done, Bruce would EASILY outdo Tony because he has a skill set that he can apply in different ways to real life while Tony is somewhat one dimensional, and sticks mostly to technology. To sum it up, Bruce's smarts are much more useful and applicable due to their diversity when compared to most other comic geniuses who just sit on their a%ses writing long quantum physics. Lol. I would take Bruce's set smarts over any other comic genius really.

Haha! Exactly.

#306 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

@omnicrono:What intellect showings does batman have? Lucius fox built his arsenal, he's not in this. Call me when Bat's develops his own brand of physics.

Serious? He has a ton of intellect showings.

Anyway, he doesn't need to have developed his own brand of physics to beat his opponent. He can do that using superior strategy, deduction, and tactics. I'll take the genius who excels in those categories over the guy that excels in only particle physics and scientific theory. Any day.

Yes seriously. Bat's is cunning I'll give you that , but he's got nothing on the Panther. Who is the best tactician in the MU. He bested Dr. Doom during Doomwar. I don't think Batman can do that though people would love to say it. Batman can barely fight a war on crime let alone a full scale one, his son's death is a testament to that.

#307 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@omnicrono said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@omnicrono:What intellect showings does batman have? Lucius fox built his arsenal, he's not in this. Call me when Bat's develops his own brand of physics.

Serious? He has a ton of intellect showings.

Anyway, he doesn't need to have developed his own brand of physics to beat his opponent. He can do that using superior strategy, deduction, and tactics. I'll take the genius who excels in those categories over the guy that excels in only particle physics and scientific theory. Any day.

Yes seriously. Bat's is cunning I'll give you that , but he's got nothing on the Panther. Who is the best tactician in the MU. He bested Dr. Doom during Doomwar. I don't think Batman can do that though people would love to say it. Batman can barely fight a war on crime let alone a full scale one, his son's death is a testament to that.

Yeaaaaa, no. Batman has consistently bee stated and shown to be one of DC's most intelligent humans. I agree that T'Challa has the edge in intelligence, but the gap is miniscule, and saying that Bruce has nothing on BP is silly considering Bruce's intelligence.

#308 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10438 posts) - - Show Bio

I can say I'm the king of the moon and that means very little. I don't buy conjecture or hype. Which is usually good enough for fans of popular characters. If you've got scan's I'll check em out.

Anyway back to the fight, what exactly does Batman have under the current op to take BP down with? We're talking about a man with a personal teleporter, a cloaking device, daggers that cut through Alt Terrax, superhuman prowess, a personal shield and he can turn off tech.

#309 Edited by Omnicrono (1774 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

I can say I'm the king of the moon and that means very little. I don't buy conjecture or hype. Which is usually good enough for fans of popular characters. If you've got scan's I'll check em out.

Anyway back to the fight, what exactly does Batman have under the current op to take BP down with? We're talking about a man with a personal teleporter, a cloaking device, daggers that cut through Alt Terrax, superhuman prowess, a personal shield and he can turn off tech.

For starters, just so we're clear, I wasn't saying Batman would win this one. In fact, given Panther's current abilities, I've got to admit that BP would probably edge it out 6/10.

However, that is because he now has superhuman physical ability to go along with his tech and his genius.

If that wasn't the case, I'd easily give it to Bruce at least 6/10.

As for intellect supporting scans, I'm afraid I'm going to have to defer to someone else on that one for the moment. I don't have the time, nor the energy, right now.

Even so, I'm sure there are plenty of other educated pro-Bat responses back in the earlier pages of this thread. If not, you can check out this link (if you have not already) for a good starting point: http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/intellectresources.html

#310 Posted by Trey_Leggatt01 (28 posts) - - Show Bio

batman wins

#311 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10438 posts) - - Show Bio

@nelomaxwell said:

I can say I'm the king of the moon and that means very little. I don't buy conjecture or hype. Which is usually good enough for fans of popular characters. If you've got scan's I'll check em out.

Anyway back to the fight, what exactly does Batman have under the current op to take BP down with? We're talking about a man with a personal teleporter, a cloaking device, daggers that cut through Alt Terrax, superhuman prowess, a personal shield and he can turn off tech.

For starters, just we're clear, I wasn't saying Batman would win this one. In fact, given Panther's current abilities, I've got to admit that BP would probably edge it out 6/10.

However, that is because he now has superhuman physical ability to go along with his tech and his genius.

If that wasn't the case, I'd easily give it to Bruce at least 6/10.

As for intellect supporting scans, I'm afraid I'm going to have to defer to someone else on that one for the moment. I don't have the time, nor the energy, right now.

Even so, I'm sure there are plenty of other educated pro-Bat responses back in the earlier pages of this thread. If not, you can check out this link (if you have not already) for a good starting point: http://batmanfeats.blogspot.com/p/intellectresources.html

Thank you I appreciate this.

#312 Posted by Omnicrono (1774 posts) - - Show Bio
#313 Posted by Nelomaxwell (10438 posts) - - Show Bio
#314 Posted by jojjimbo (2472 posts) - - Show Bio

I say BP.

#315 Edited by Jmarshmallow (5079 posts) - - Show Bio

@jojjimbo: Holy Bump Batman! And if this is King of the Dead Panther, with superhuman abilities, he SHOULD destroy Bats.

The old BP would have lost though.

Jmarshmallow

#316 Edited by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow said:

@jojjimbo: Holy Bump Batman! And if this is King of the Dead Panther, with superhuman abilities, he SHOULD destroy Bats.

The old BP would have lost though.

Jmarshmallow

The old BP would have still won really.

#317 Posted by jashro44 (20749 posts) - - Show Bio

The old black panther would have won......

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#318 Edited by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

The old black panther would have won......

True. He still had advantages over Batman that he could use to pull out a victory. Current BP kind of stomps.

#319 Posted by dondave (36446 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

The old black panther would have won......

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#320 Edited by Jmarshmallow (5079 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Agree to disagree. This is a 7-page thread, that I'm sure you were heavily a part of. You probably don't want to go through this all again.

I personally think that Bats superior H2H and quicker reflexes would give him the edge over BP's superior tech. In every other category I would say they're too equal to distinguish a clear advantage.

Jmarshmallow

#321 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Agree to disagree. This is a 7-page thread, that I'm sure you were heavily a part of. You probably don't want to go through this all again.

I personally think that Bats superior H2H and quicker reflexes would give him the edge over BP's superior tech. In every other category I would say they're too equal to distinguish a clear advantage.

Jmarshmallow

Cool, but T'Challa before the King of the Dead enhancements was still an enhanced human, so he still had superior strength, speed, agility, and reflexes than Batman. And considering how he's mastered every martial art on the planet been trained to fight since the age of 6, and has beaten or stalemated most of Marvel's most skilled fighters, I'd say he's an equal to Batman H2H.

#322 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

People really do overestimate Batman's H2H skill, and downplay top tier fighters skill when they put them up against Batman. No matter who it is, Captain America, Black Panther, Wolverine, Daredevil, Iron Fist, etc people always say Batman is more skilled "Jus cause". Jeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

#323 Posted by Jmarshmallow (5079 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I've never seen any feats to suggest that BP was superior to Bats in the physical aspect? Care to share?

And uhh, gonna have to disagree with the "mastered every martial art on the planet" statement.

I'm no insane Black Panther enthusiast, but I am a fan. And I can't recall a time saying that he's mastered every martial art on the planet.

He "knows" every martial art on the planet, but not mastered.

Jmarshmallow

#324 Edited by Jmarshmallow (5079 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Overestimate lol? Batman is one of the premier fighters in the DC Universe. Easily in the top 10, and even in the top 5 considering most fighters get by on super-human status. When it comes to straight skill, I can only think of about 4 people who MIGHT be better than him.

I can't say the same for BP, although I could put him in the top 10.

Jmarshmallow

#325 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I've never seen any feats to suggest that BP was superior to Bats in the physical aspect? Care to share?

And uhh, gonna have to disagree with the "mastered every martial art on the planet" statement.

I'm no insane Black Panther enthusiast, but I am a fan. And I can't recall a time saying that he's mastered every martial art on the planet.

He "knows" every martial art on the planet, but not mastered.

Jmarshmallow

He's stopped a 9 ton elephant's charge, bulldozed and broke a rhino's neck, ran up a building holding a man by his hair in less than ten seconds, ripped a fully grown man in half with ease, tipped over a water mill, lifted a 2,000 b throne with ease and walked with it, etc. He's physically superior to Batman

And yes, Panther has mastered every fighting style in the world. Marvel has stated so multiple times in their official encyclopedia, and he has on panel confirmation of it.

#326 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow:

Based on feats, Captain America, Wolverine, Daredevil, Black Panther, and Iron Fist are all as skilled as Batman.

#327 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow said:

@wolverine08: I've never seen any feats to suggest that BP was superior to Bats in the physical aspect? Care to share?

And uhh, gonna have to disagree with the "mastered every martial art on the planet" statement.

I'm no insane Black Panther enthusiast, but I am a fan. And I can't recall a time saying that he's mastered every martial art on the planet.

He "knows" every martial art on the planet, but not mastered.

Jmarshmallow

He's stopped a 9 ton elephant's charge, bulldozed and broke a rhino's neck, ran up a building holding a man by his hair in less than ten seconds, ripped a fully grown man in half with ease, tipped over a water mill, lifted a 2,000 b throne with ease and walked with it, etc. He's physically superior to Batman

And yes, Panther has mastered every fighting style in the world. Marvel has stated so multiple times in their official encyclopedia, and he has on panel confirmation of it.

BP was already considered an 'enhanced human' when he ate the Heart-shaped herb. With the KoTD upgrade, he is basically superhuman, as confirmed by Hickman.

#328 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@wolverine08 said:

@jmarshmallow said:

@wolverine08: I've never seen any feats to suggest that BP was superior to Bats in the physical aspect? Care to share?

And uhh, gonna have to disagree with the "mastered every martial art on the planet" statement.

I'm no insane Black Panther enthusiast, but I am a fan. And I can't recall a time saying that he's mastered every martial art on the planet.

He "knows" every martial art on the planet, but not mastered.

Jmarshmallow

He's stopped a 9 ton elephant's charge, bulldozed and broke a rhino's neck, ran up a building holding a man by his hair in less than ten seconds, ripped a fully grown man in half with ease, tipped over a water mill, lifted a 2,000 b throne with ease and walked with it, etc. He's physically superior to Batman

And yes, Panther has mastered every fighting style in the world. Marvel has stated so multiple times in their official encyclopedia, and he has on panel confirmation of it.

BP was already considered an 'enhanced human' when he ate the Heart-shaped herb. With the KoTD upgrade, he is basically superhuman, as confirmed by Hickman.

Exactly.

#329 Posted by Jmarshmallow (5079 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Hm. Well, that surpasses any strength feats I can think of for Bats then.

However, he did support a 1,000 pound roof, so I wouldn't say he's so totally outclassed it gives BP an automatic win.

It's not like Bats isn't used to fighting enemies that are physically superior.(Double Negative FTW)

And on panel confirmation, eh? I'd have to see it to believe it.

Jmarshmallow

#330 Edited by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow said:

@wolverine08: Hm. Well, that surpasses any strength feats I can think of for Bats then.

However, he did support a 1,000 pound roof, so I wouldn't say he's so totally outclassed it gives BP an automatic win.

It's not like Bats isn't used to fighting enemies that are physically superior.(Double Negative FTW)

And on panel confirmation, eh? I'd have to see it to believe it.

Jmarshmallow

@lvenger posted the scan where BP said that he's mastered every fighting style known to man, and Marvel has stated multiple times in the official encyclopedias that he's mastered every fighting style known to man. With that, and his numerous hand to hand feats, I'd say he's an equal to Bats in fighting skill.

I'd also like to remind you that you don't have to know a plethora of fighting styles to be a very skilled fighter. You just have to know how to apply what you know extremely effectively. Daredevil only knows a few fighting styles, and is still one of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel U because he knows how to maximize what he knows extremely efficiently. Plus, feats are more important than how many fighting styles you know as well, and BP has the feats to back up being as skilled as Bats in H2H combat.

#331 Edited by Nelomaxwell (10438 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow: However, he did support a 1,000 pound roof,

With Great difficulty,I had that comic.

#332 Posted by cameron83 (7185 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow said:

@wolverine08: Agree to disagree. This is a 7-page thread, that I'm sure you were heavily a part of. You probably don't want to go through this all again.

I personally think that Bats superior H2H and quicker reflexes would give him the edge over BP's superior tech. In every other category I would say they're too equal to distinguish a clear advantage.

Jmarshmallow

Cool, but T'Challa before the King of the Dead enhancements was still an enhanced human, so he still had superior strength, speed, agility, and reflexes than Batman. And considering how he's mastered every martial art on the planet been trained to fight since the age of 6, and has beaten or stalemated most of Marvel's most skilled fighters, I'd say he's an equal to Batman H2H.

This.

Not only is Panther technologically superior,but he's physically superior and (at the least) equally skilled.

I mean,I'm more of a fan of Batman than I am Panther,but this is just basic fact.

@jmarshmallow said:

@wolverine08: Hm. Well, that surpasses any strength feats I can think of for Bats then.

However, he did support a 1,000 pound roof, so I wouldn't say he's so totally outclassed it gives BP an automatic win.

It's not like Bats isn't used to fighting enemies that are physically superior.(Double Negative FTW)

And on panel confirmation, eh? I'd have to see it to believe it.

Jmarshmallow

@lvenger posted the scan where BP said that he's mastered every fighting style known to man, and Marvel has stated multiple times in the official encyclopedias that he's mastered every fighting style known to man. With that, and his numerous hand to hand feats, I'd say he's an equal to Bats in fighting skill.

I'd also like t remind you that you don't have to know a plethora of fighting styles to be a very skilled fighter. You just have to know how to apply what you know extremely effectively. Daredevil only knows a few fighting styles, and is still one of the most skilled fighters in the Marvel U because he knows how to maximize what he knows extremely efficiently. Plus, feats are more important than how many fighting styles you know as well, and BP has the feats to back up being as skilled as Bats in H2H skill.

this

Also,it doesn't matter if Batman won against a physically superior opponent (which he has),Panther has too. But the physical edge (as well as speed,reflexes,strength,etc) still goes to Panther. And Batman's opponents that are physically superior aren't nearly as skilled (and technologically advanced) as BP is (save for Bane,but Panther is still superior in skill,tech,speed,etc). For example,Killer Croc. At best,he just has the skills of a crocodile wrestler. He doesn't have skill (or technology) anywhere near the level of Batman or Black Panther.

@jmarshmallow: However, he did support a 1,000 pound roof,

With Great difficulty,I had that comic.

and this.

#333 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24065 posts) - - Show Bio

Batgod.

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#334 Edited by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio
#335 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24065 posts) - - Show Bio
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#336 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011:

Tell the Batgod to kneel before the supreme might of Wakanda's badass king! Lol.

#337 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#338 Posted by MonsterStomp (16911 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther wins sadly. Marvel has a way of taking two characters from DC and combining their mental and physical prowess and forming another hero or villain. In this case, Batman meets Deathstroke.

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#339 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@monsterstomp: Lol, good point about Marvel combing abilities. Also, I think BP has the means to take a slim majority over Deathstroke.

#340 Edited by MonsterStomp (16911 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I agree. Only if BP has his vibranium armour though.

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#341 Edited by Lvenger (19277 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: For the record, even if BP had shown the ability to master less fighting styles than Batman, I'd still give him the win due to better tech, physical stats and speed in battle. And now it's practically a stomp due to T'Challa's King of the Dead amp.

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#342 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12021 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, this is a complete stomp, skill and experience is now completely in T'Challa's favor due to the KotD amp...he's got over 10,000 years of combat knowledge now due to sharing the memories of every past Black Panther ever.

#343 Edited by NoBody134 (288 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, this is a complete stomp, skill and experience is now completely in T'Challa's favor due to the KotD amp...he's got over 10,000 years of combat knowledge now due to sharing the memories of every past Black Panther ever.

this

#344 Edited by SheenLantern (6465 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

Yeah, this is a complete stomp, skill and experience is now completely in T'Challa's favor due to the KotD amp...he's got over 10,000 years of combat knowledge now due to sharing the memories of every past Black Panther ever.

this

Are you two blind? This thread is from 5 years ago, it's using the Black Panther of 2008.

#345 Edited by Pop123 (90 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should win.

#347 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5162 posts) - - Show Bio

BP

#348 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5375 posts) - - Show Bio

Old BP wins 6/10. King of the Dead BP destroys Bats.

#349 Posted by Wolverine08 (41070 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Agreed. BP has become a freak with the King of the Dead enhancements!

#350 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger:

Agreed. BP has become a freak with the King of the Dead enhancements!

I will say that a lot of it is theoretical though. The new suit certainly has a lot of cool toys (teleportation, cloaking, force-shields, dagger that pierced Terrax), but physicals-wise, I don't think he's had much to show. We know he has all the experience of past BPs and is superhuman, then there's some stuff like ripping the cyborg apart and defeating Black Dwarf, but I think the extent of his physical upgrades is pretty vague for now.

T'Challa's still taking this, though ;)