He can defeat Captain America if he really uses his brain and gets the drop on Cap, but he will get hurt. Wolverine will be able to defeat him, and if not Wolverine, Iron Fist can definitely stop Batman. Iron Fist is a better fighter than Bats.
He stops at 5, without gear Batman is not beating Cap. He probably would beat no powers/no adamantium Wolverine though.
Why not? Batman is commonly accepted as Cap's equal, but IMO the only thing Cap has on Batman is strength and maybe speed. Batman is smarter and IMO is a better fighter. I dont want to start a big debate over that though, just my opinion.
Why is Wolverine without powers or adamantium less of a fighter than Cap? Wolverine has defeated Cap before. Without his healing factor, he will just have to rely on his speed more than usual. He still has a massive offensive advantage with the claws, and he has had tons and tons of experience and training.
Wolverine without his healing is just a Wolverine who needs to utilize his speed more. Wolverine without adamantium is just faster, and of course more prone to injury.
Also, I will add that I said Bats would be weakened from the fight with Cap, and that is a reason he would lose to Wolverine.
The reason that Wolverine would lose is that his entire fighting style has been based on having a healing factor and bones to keep him alive. In the just plain skill department he is not as talented. He is good, but not good enough to pull a win without his 2 aces in the hole.
Batman WITH GEAR is considered Cap's equal, with no gear he loses to Cap for the same reason he loses to Deathstroke, skill is very, very close, but physical ability is not. Cap is stronger, faster, and has a TON more stamina.
The reason that Wolverine would lose is that his entire fighting style has been based on having a healing factor and bones to keep him alive. In the just plain skill department he is not as talented. He is good, but not good enough to pull a win without his 2 aces in the hole.
Batman WITH GEAR is considered Cap's equal, with no gear he loses to Cap for the same reason he loses to Deathstroke, skill is very, very close, but physical ability is not. Cap is stronger, faster, and has a TON more stamina.
Batman with gear is Cap's equal? What if Batman throws explosive batarang at him, or just use sonic device, or electrocute him?
After 1 day of rest, his body will be swore as hell. If he makes it through the Punisher, fatigue will kick in. He sure the hell wont' beat Cap going through the gauntlet with only 1 day or prep in between. He would need %100 and even that would be debatable if he can beat him.
The reason that Wolverine would lose is that his entire fighting style has been based on having a healing factor and bones to keep him alive. In the just plain skill department he is not as talented. He is good, but not good enough to pull a win without his 2 aces in the hole.
Batman WITH GEAR is considered Cap's equal, with no gear he loses to Cap for the same reason he loses to Deathstroke, skill is very, very close, but physical ability is not. Cap is stronger, faster, and has a TON more stamina.
Batman with gear is Cap's equal? What if Batman throws explosive batarang at him, or just use sonic device, or electrocute him?
Thats what I was thinking lol
@MisterWhisper said:
@ChaosBlazer:
The reason that Wolverine would lose is that his entire fighting style has been based on having a healing factor and bones to keep him alive. In the just plain skill department he is not as talented. He is good, but not good enough to pull a win without his 2 aces in the hole.
Batman WITH GEAR is considered Cap's equal, with no gear he loses to Cap for the same reason he loses to Deathstroke, skill is very, very close, but physical ability is not. Cap is stronger, faster, and has a TON more stamina.
What do you mean? Logan has defeated Cap in the past without having to utilize his healing factor. If he has his claws he still has a massive offensive advantage over a Cap without a shield. Logan is very fast and will have no trouble connecting with Batman, once he does connect Bats is down for the count.
@ChaosBlazer: Yeah, but an equal amount of times Cap has thrown some blows at Logan that would have put a normal guy out. Take their last fight in AVX, he tossed the shield to the back of Logans head at the spine causing a bunch of blood coming out.
Lastly, Batman only has 1 day or prep and isn't entering the next fights at %100. He'll be tired and fatigued. By the time he gets to Cap he'll be too out of shape to compete against a Super Soldier with good H2H skills.
@BigCimmerian said:
@MisterWhisper said:
@ChaosBlazer:
The reason that Wolverine would lose is that his entire fighting style has been based on having a healing factor and bones to keep him alive. In the just plain skill department he is not as talented. He is good, but not good enough to pull a win without his 2 aces in the hole.
Batman WITH GEAR is considered Cap's equal, with no gear he loses to Cap for the same reason he loses to Deathstroke, skill is very, very close, but physical ability is not. Cap is stronger, faster, and has a TON more stamina.
Batman with gear is Cap's equal? What if Batman throws explosive batarang at him, or just use sonic device, or electrocute him?
You already said no gear. But I just wanted to throw in a tease. What if Cap just throws his shield at speeds that can slice through a truck?
Anyways, I'm on the fence that they are about 50/50 with their equipment but I lean a little more towards Cap without the gear.
@SlimJ87D: Cap doesnt have his shield here. And if Logan knows he doesnt have his healing factor he will fight smart.
In this fight I'm not talking about the SHIELD. I mentioned it becomes someone mentioned gear. Back on topic, he still losses to Deadpool or Cap due to fatigue.
@SlimJ87D: Cap doesnt have his shield here. And if Logan knows he doesnt have his healing factor he will fight smart.
In this fight I'm not talking about the SHIELD. I mentioned it becomes someone mentioned gear. Back on topic, he still losses to Deadpool or Cap due to fatigue.
yeah OK. When I think about it, fatigue and wounds would play a larger role than I thought.
I don't think Wayne would be critically fatigued by the time he reaches Rogers. At his peak? Probably not. But I don't see the previous challenges being enough to take a major toll on his body. I'm not saying Wayne wins here, I'm merely saying I don't believe he'd be all that handicapped at that point.
As for the working out test, we're obviously going to feel a toll far more than an individual in peak condition that tends to have extended fights on a daily basis. Under these conditions, no one before Rogers has any chance of taking a majority of Wayne IMHO. Could some of them bruise him up a bit? Absolutely. But I don't see any of them providing lasting or substantial injuries to Wayne.
I want everyone here to try and understand how much 1 day of rest really is?
Tonight either
1. DO a very intense workout for 30 minutes, keep doing push ups, sit ups and pulls ups. Absolutely no rest at all.
or
2. Go to a BJJ and give it a try for a week. Go everyday.
or
3. Swim for 30 minutes straight, absolutely no rest at all.
Tell me how you feel by day 3 or 4 and let me know if you could beat someone about your equal.
Whether we can do so or not is irrelevant, the question is whether a man who is used to intense physical activity day in and day out can manage to do so. Batman does more physically demanding stuff than these three activities every single night.
Batman can beat punisher with ease. He has literally no hand to hand feats to say he can hold a candle to Bruce. He's good but batman is a lot better. He is also better then deadpool as well. In the recent court of the owls he went through that after getting stabbed by cobbs in round 1 like 5 times and then in round 2 was even more warned down and stabbed Again from behind. He then fought multiple talons later. There is also part 1 of knight fall where he went through a lot before bane broke his back. Batman has crazy stamina and endurance. I say he stops at cap due to enhancements and batman being a little fatigued. The only challenges before cap are crossbones who batman should be able to take on due to his technical knowledge and deadpool who batman is just plan better then.
I want everyone here to try and understand how much 1 day of rest really is?
Tonight either
1. DO a very intense workout for 30 minutes, keep doing push ups, sit ups and pulls ups. Absolutely no rest at all.
or
2. Go to a BJJ and give it a try for a week. Go everyday.
or
3. Swim for 30 minutes straight, absolutely no rest at all.
Tell me how you feel by day 3 or 4 and let me know if you could beat someone about your equal.
Normally, I would agree, but this is comics and Batman has gone at it three days before without rest or respite and soaked damage that would kill or cripple any Olympic level athlete or MMA fighter without doubt. Using comic book realism, a day's rest is substantially more than it would surely entail with but a dose of reality.
Yeah, but an equal amount of times Cap has thrown some blows at Logan that would have put a normal guy out. Take their last fight in AVX, he tossed the shield to the back of Logans head at the spine causing a bunch of blood coming out.
A solid shield strike should put an adamantium-less, healing factor-less Wolverine down for the count. Agreed. Cap's got high end, vehicle destroying striking power in that shield of his. But Wolverine pulled his punches before said shield strike so it's a moot point IMHO. By this, I mean he used a precision strike to tear the strap off Cap's shield instead of cutting off his arm (which he obviously could have opted to) then 'grazed' him across the abdomen. He was not hitting to kill.
Irregardless, we both agree that he stops at Cap. However, switch out Cap for Logan, and the end result would be the same I believe.
I want everyone here to try and understand how much 1 day of rest really is?
Tonight either
1. DO a very intense workout for 30 minutes, keep doing push ups, sit ups and pulls ups. Absolutely no rest at all.
or
2. Go to a BJJ and give it a try for a week. Go everyday.
or
3. Swim for 30 minutes straight, absolutely no rest at all.
Tell me how you feel by day 3 or 4 and let me know if you could beat someone about your equal.
Whether we can do so or not is irrelevant, the question is whether a man who is used to intense physical activity day in and day out can manage to do so. Batman does more physically demanding stuff than these three activities every single night.
Physical activity is not the only problem, it's also physical harm. Look at what the Punisher is capable of doing against Daken, someone I would argue is equal to Batman in skill.
Sure they both have weapons here, but what I'm showing is that the Punisher fights dirty and if given the opportunity he will bite a part of Batman, scratch or leave something that may affect Batman's next match. The Punisher has some good H2H feats, enough to land blows against Batman as Batman is no Karate kid and doesn't eclipse Punisher or Crossbones in skill of magnitudes in whole numbers above 2 to school them without any damage whatsoever.
Batman surely will get through Cross Bones and Punisher but he is not leaving those fights without something hindering his performance the next day. Anything they may add to fatigue or harm Batman is enough for Cap to defeat Batman. Both of them at %100 already create dozens and dozens of debate topics and pages splitting it to a near 50/50, putting Batman at even %75 to %80 of his performance changes that 50/50 odds.
I want everyone here to try and understand how much 1 day of rest really is?
Tonight either
1. DO a very intense workout for 30 minutes, keep doing push ups, sit ups and pulls ups. Absolutely no rest at all.
or
2. Go to a BJJ and give it a try for a week. Go everyday.
or
3. Swim for 30 minutes straight, absolutely no rest at all.
Tell me how you feel by day 3 or 4 and let me know if you could beat someone about your equal.
Whether we can do so or not is irrelevant, the question is whether a man who is used to intense physical activity day in and day out can manage to do so. Batman does more physically demanding stuff than these three activities every single night.
Physical activity is not the only problem, it's also physical harm. Look at what the Punisher is capable of doing against Daken, someone I would argue is equal to Batman in skill.
Sure they both have weapons here, but what I'm showing is that the Punisher fights dirty and if given the opportunity he will bite a part of Batman, scratch or leave something that may affect Batman's next match. The Punisher has some good H2H feats, enough to land blows against Batman as Batman is no Karate kid and doesn't eclipse Punisher or Crossbones in skill of magnitudes in whole numbers above 2 to school them without any damage whatsoever.
Batman surely will get through Cross Bones and Punisher but he is not leaving those fights without something hindering his performance the next day. Anything they may add to fatigue or harm Batman is enough for Cap to defeat Batman. Both of them at %100 already create dozens and dozens of debate topics and pages splitting it to a near 50/50, putting Batman at even %75 to %80 of his performance changes that 50/50 odds.
Batman is not Daken. Batman does not stand around and tank things because he knows that he can tank them. Daken has sufficient showings to indicate he could have mutilated Punisher before Castle could react. The technique he learned from Romulus meant Deadpool could not even see him move and Spider-Man has remarked on Daken's speed when they fought during American Son. Punisher should never have been able to even trouble Daken in the slightest. Batman fights plenty of people who know how to fight dirty, he's punked out Wildcat when Ted tried to fight dirty against him and even told him that he didn't know the first thing about fighting dirty. Batman does eclipse both Punisher and Crossbones in skill. His skill feats are just plain better in every possible way. How much damage do you suppose either one of them is going to dish out? Batman just got out of an event where he sustained far more physical damage than either one of them can dish out in a fight against him over the period of a week and was still capable of running around town fighting enhanced-stats assassins.
Daken has sufficient showings to indicate he could have mutilated Punisher before Castle could react. The technique he learned from Romulus meant Deadpool could not even see him move and Spider-Man has remarked on Daken's speed when they fought during American Son. Punisher should never have been able to even trouble Daken in the slightest.
This. I absolutely loved the issue and it was amazingly entertaining, but this x5.
To everyone else, unless Batman can get through Cross bones, Moon knight, Punisher and Dead Pool unharmed in 4 days, he will not be beating Steve day 5.
Deadpool in his own right is highly skilled at H2H, and with damage from the previous fight I think he stands a good chance of beating Bruce even without a healing factor. In these scans, it's mostly H2H and the fight happens so fast, Deadpools healing factor hardly came into play over this stalemate. Top that with Batman having to fight Cross Bones, Moon Knight and Punisher days before in a row I think he only has a 50/50 chance or less of getting past Deadpool and his skills with the fatigue build up. If by chance he gets past Deadpool he surely isn't going to stand a chance against Steve.
I want everyone here to try and understand how much 1 day of rest really is?
Tonight either
1. DO a very intense workout for 30 minutes, keep doing push ups, sit ups and pulls ups. Absolutely no rest at all.
or
2. Go to a BJJ and give it a try for a week. Go everyday.
or
3. Swim for 30 minutes straight, absolutely no rest at all.
Tell me how you feel by day 3 or 4 and let me know if you could beat someone about your equal.
Whether we can do so or not is irrelevant, the question is whether a man who is used to intense physical activity day in and day out can manage to do so. Batman does more physically demanding stuff than these three activities every single night.
Physical activity is not the only problem, it's also physical harm. Look at what the Punisher is capable of doing against Daken, someone I would argue is equal to Batman in skill.
Sure they both have weapons here, but what I'm showing is that the Punisher fights dirty and if given the opportunity he will bite a part of Batman, scratch or leave something that may affect Batman's next match. The Punisher has some good H2H feats, enough to land blows against Batman as Batman is no Karate kid and doesn't eclipse Punisher or Crossbones in skill of magnitudes in whole numbers above 2 to school them without any damage whatsoever.
Batman surely will get through Cross Bones and Punisher but he is not leaving those fights without something hindering his performance the next day. Anything they may add to fatigue or harm Batman is enough for Cap to defeat Batman. Both of them at %100 already create dozens and dozens of debate topics and pages splitting it to a near 50/50, putting Batman at even %75 to %80 of his performance changes that 50/50 odds.
Batman is not Daken. Batman does not stand around and tank things because he knows that he can tank them. Daken has sufficient showings to indicate he could have mutilated Punisher before Castle could react. The technique he learned from Romulus meant Deadpool could not even see him move and Spider-Man has remarked on Daken's speed when they fought during American Son. Punisher should never have been able to even trouble Daken in the slightest. Batman fights plenty of people who know how to fight dirty, he's punked out Wildcat when Ted tried to fight dirty against him and even told him that he didn't know the first thing about fighting dirty. Batman does eclipse both Punisher and Crossbones in skill. His skill feats are just plain better in every possible way. How much damage do you suppose either one of them is going to dish out? Batman just got out of an event where he sustained far more physical damage than either one of them can dish out in a fight against him over the period of a week and was still capable of running around town fighting enhanced-stats assassins.
Enough damage for Deadpool to add even more damage that's for sure. Yes he's going to beat them, but how well he'll fair against Deadpool and his health if he gets past deadpool is not enough for him to beat Steve, plain and simple. I stand by that last sentence.
To everyone else, unless Batman can get through Cross bones, Moon knight, Punisher and Dead Pool unharmed in 4 days, he will not be beating Steve day 5.
Deadpool in his own right is highly skilled at H2H, and with damage from the previous fight I think he stands a good chance of beating Bruce even without a healing factor. In these scans, it's mostly H2H and the fight happens so fast, Deadpools healing factor hardly came into play over this stalemate. Top that with Batman having to fight Cross Bones, Moon Knight and Punisher days before in a row I think he only has a 50/50 chance or less of getting past Deadpool and his skills with the fatigue build up. If by chance he gets past Deadpool he surely isn't going to stand a chance against Steve.
Deadpool is highly skilled when he feels like it. Most of the time, he's not. A lot of his major wins against people like Taskmaster come down to the fact that they can't put him down (Tasky impaled Wade when they fought, for instance, and that would have killed most other peope) rather than him being a more skilled fighter than they are.
To everyone else, unless Batman can get through Cross bones, Moon knight, Punisher and Dead Pool unharmed in 4 days, he will not be beating Steve day 5.
Deadpool in his own right is highly skilled at H2H, and with damage from the previous fight I think he stands a good chance of beating Bruce even without a healing factor. In these scans, it's mostly H2H and the fight happens so fast, Deadpools healing factor hardly came into play over this stalemate. Top that with Batman having to fight Cross Bones, Moon Knight and Punisher days before in a row I think he only has a 50/50 chance or less of getting past Deadpool and his skills with the fatigue build up. If by chance he gets past Deadpool he surely isn't going to stand a chance against Steve.
I was thinking he could stop at Deadpool but I wasn't sure if OP took away his speed too
@society619: Why would Deadpool lose his speed? The honest only loop whole I can think of in this is that the OP didn't specify if Deadpool has cancer or not. And form my memory, taking his healing factor away would have cancer already at stage 3 or worse, he wouldn't be in shape to fight Batman like that. That's the only way he's losing his speed.
Not just that, Wolverine's a 1 to 2 tonner. His physicals are enhanced. This and he's been left with 'bone' claws that have proven strong enough to rend steel with ease. So yeah, even without the metal and the healing factor, Wolverine would take down Batman hand to hand ... he has to land but one solid right cross and Bruce is a goner.
In fact, Wolverine is the deadliest prospect in the bunch for Bruce and should be last on the list if we're moving in order of difficulty.
@Super_SoldierXII: Agreed. I didn't think of that. Without the metal, he's going to be lighter and more agile. Wolvie should probably be the end fight.
Wade isn't going to beat Batman without his healing factor. Even if he's not messing around, he's just not as good as the Dark Knight, and this makes me very sad.
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