Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him?
Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On.
Batman (Dick Grayson) vs Cassandra Cain
" @comicdude23 said:" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment.
" @Skies327 said:It's the same guy, that's all it boils down to. She beats him as Nightwing, she beats him as Batman." @comicdude23 said:Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment. "" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
" @comicdude23 said:" @Skies327 said:It's the same guy, that's all it boils down to. She beats him as Nightwing, she beats him as Batman. "" @comicdude23 said:Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment. "" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
There is a big differece.
1. Dick Grayson Batman has better feats.
2. He has more Exp.
3. Alot more equipment.
" @comicdude23 said:" @Skies327 said:It's the same guy, that's all it boils down to. She beats him as Nightwing, she beats him as Batman. "" @comicdude23 said:Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment. "" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
Eh,not really.
dick wins.
" @Skies327 said:1) What better feats does he have as Batman?" @comicdude23 said:There is a big differece. 1. Dick Grayson Batman has better feats. 2. He has more Exp. 3. Alot more equipment. "" @Skies327 said:It's the same guy, that's all it boils down to. She beats him as Nightwing, she beats him as Batman. "" @comicdude23 said:Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment. "" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
2) It's not like there was some huge time lapse from the time he stopped being Nightwing to him becoming Batman. It hasn't been that long.
3) He had plenty of equipment as Nightwing. It's not like the utility belt comes with a bag of holding.
He's the -same- guy. If she beat him before, she's gonna beat him again.
" @comicdude23 said:" @Skies327 said:1) What better feats does he have as Batman? 2) It's not like there was some huge time lapse from the time he stopped being Nightwing to him becoming Batman. It hasn't been that long. 3) He had plenty of equipment as Nightwing. It's not like the utility belt comes with a bag of holding. He's the -same- guy. If she beat him before, she's gonna beat him again. "" @comicdude23 said:There is a big differece. 1. Dick Grayson Batman has better feats. 2. He has more Exp. 3. Alot more equipment. "" @Skies327 said:It's the same guy, that's all it boils down to. She beats him as Nightwing, she beats him as Batman. "" @comicdude23 said:Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment. "" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
1. Gave DS a decent fight, stalemated the perfect Bruce Wayne clone....
2. Yes, there is a big difference.....
3. No, he has and uses alot more equipment as Batman...
" @comicdude23 said:" @Skies327 said:1) What better feats does he have as Batman? 2) It's not like there was some huge time lapse from the time he stopped being Nightwing to him becoming Batman. It hasn't been that long. 3) He had plenty of equipment as Nightwing. It's not like the utility belt comes with a bag of holding. He's the -same- guy. If she beat him before, she's gonna beat him again. "" @comicdude23 said:There is a big differece. 1. Dick Grayson Batman has better feats. 2. He has more Exp. 3. Alot more equipment. "" @Skies327 said:It's the same guy, that's all it boils down to. She beats him as Nightwing, she beats him as Batman. "" @comicdude23 said:Dick Grayson Batman has alot more equipment. "" Well, it's quite obvious that Cassandra Cain can beat Nightwing. So how would this older, better equiped Dick Grayson fare angainst Cassandra? Will his gadgets help him? Random Encounter in Gotham City with Morals On. "Thread. "
As nightwing the character never got his props,he lost to Ra's al ghul twice but beat him in the last issue of nightwing,he was stalemated by todd in outsiders ,but beat him in battle for the cowl,he was stalemated by arsenal in almost every encounter ,but oneshotted him recently,was bested by bruce in the fugitive storyline but stalemated a perfect bruce clone recently.
then there's one good showing against deathstroke as well,easily his best ever againt the man.
and she never beat him as nightwing,unless cheapshotting him on 2 occasions count as a win.
and grayson has used electric knuckles as batman,in addition to his escrima sticks he also has Ko gas,flashbangs,tazer in the fingertips etc.
If Batdick was a brand new character, or if Dick was written the way he's written as Batman, through his entire career. He would easily be at least on par with Bruce.
"If Batdick was a brand new character, or if Dick was written the way he's written as Batman, through his entire career. He would easily be at least on par with Bruce. "
Exactly.
" @entropy_aegis: I'm not discrediting the guy at all. I'm a big fan of Grayson as Batman, and have loved all the books so far with him in the role. My opinion that she beats him in no way implies the guy sucks. She's just a better combatant if you ask me. "
Yes and that may exactly be why he wins,he KNOWS she's a better fighter and will thus use smarts and gadgets to get the victory.
those knuckles can inflict heavy damage .
" @Skies327 said:Agree to disagree then sir!" @entropy_aegis: I'm not discrediting the guy at all. I'm a big fan of Grayson as Batman, and have loved all the books so far with him in the role. My opinion that she beats him in no way implies the guy sucks. She's just a better combatant if you ask me. "Yes and that may exactly be why he wins,he KNOWS she's a better fighter and will thus use smarts and gadgets to get the victory. those knuckles can inflict heavy damage . "
" @entropy_aegis said:" @Skies327 said:Agree to disagree then sir! "" @entropy_aegis: I'm not discrediting the guy at all. I'm a big fan of Grayson as Batman, and have loved all the books so far with him in the role. My opinion that she beats him in no way implies the guy sucks. She's just a better combatant if you ask me. "Yes and that may exactly be why he wins,he KNOWS she's a better fighter and will thus use smarts and gadgets to get the victory. those knuckles can inflict heavy damage . "
Ok.
Dick Grayson has come into his own a lot more in the past five years. I have to believe that he beats Cassandra Cain. I WILL say that she is known as a better martial artist but it isnt by any degree that would have her stomp him. He has faced better fighters than her and won. He also has way more exp than she does, better feats than she does and more tech. I would also go as far to say that he probably knows more about her than she knows about him.
It isn't an easy fight but Dick wins.
Cassie stomps all over Nightwing, then rips off his mask and spits on him for pretending to be batman.
@Crom-Cruach said:
Cassie stomps all over Nightwing, then rips off his mask and spits on him for pretending to be batman.
And this is his happy side. ^^
@chimeroid: He sure did injure Bruce somewhat ....only for Bruce to note later that he had "* fixed* the problem with Dick"
The fight itself had Bruce saying things like " good" to ...being speared through his own car as far as how hard he was trying to *fix* the problem goes
That and none of Dick's other stuff in the new 52 , like struggling with uggh.. Batgirl and an overall lack of feats on Bruce's level, lends to this being a valid showing , even if we do ignore just *how* hard bruce was actually trying there
@thegrayghost: Both Bruce and the author said he was fighting as good as he could
@chimeroid: yeahhh thats not what bruce said.
Certainly the comic doesn't bear it out when bruce does things like shout encouragements to him instead of trying to fight back at one point while being speared through his car
The dude ( bruce) is fast enough to react in the literal blink of an eye...and he uses that time to say " do you wanna live??! show me you wanna live" and " good" in his best drill sergeant impersanation
What Im saying is , given the whole sequence of events , how it played it out and how it ended with bruce noting to alfred that he had * fixed* the problem without even going to dicks lack of feats anywhere close to bruces scale to the extent of their previous " fight" in the new 52 ending with Bruce flooring dick ( and knocking out his tooth) with a casual backhand....meh no, I don't really see dick as anywhere close to bruces level. Theres a significant gap between the two is what im saying, and further between bruce and cass
@thegrayghost: I am not in the mood to debate whether or not Bruce was fighting seriously against dick. I am 100% sure he was if you disagree that is your right as a reader.
@chimeroid: Its...what it is in the comic
Anyway for what its worth, that showing even if valid , makes not an iota of difference in the fight here
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