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#51 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.

That wasn't supposed to be a full game and it was a great deal for the 20 dollar price goddammit.

#52 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.

That wasn't supposed to be a full game and it was a great deal for the 20 dollar price goddammit.

I won't be replying until Friday, just so you know. Would you like to continue trash talking until then?

When was Big Boss's last billion dollar movie?

#54 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.

That wasn't supposed to be a full game and it was a great deal for the 20 dollar price goddammit.

I won't be replying until Friday, just so you know. Would you like to continue trash talking until then?

When was Big Boss's last billion dollar movie?

Trash talking?... You mean these aren't our arguments?

Wow, that's pretty impressive of Batman. Did the movie brake the internet every time one of the trailers was released because too many people were downloading it at once? No? Well Metal Gear did, and it's still the only thing that has.

Big Boss is also sexier than Batman.

#55 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.

That wasn't supposed to be a full game and it was a great deal for the 20 dollar price goddammit.

I won't be replying until Friday, just so you know. Would you like to continue trash talking until then?

When was Big Boss's last billion dollar movie?

Trash talking?... You mean these aren't our arguments?

Wow, that's pretty impressive of Batman. Did the movie brake the internet every time one of the trailers was released because too many people were downloading it at once? No? Well Metal Gear did, and it's still the only thing that has.

Big Boss is also sexier than Batman.

Broke the internet? I'm not sure I follow.

Not even. Batman crushes superior ass.

Dick Grayson learned from him.

#56 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.

That wasn't supposed to be a full game and it was a great deal for the 20 dollar price goddammit.

I won't be replying until Friday, just so you know. Would you like to continue trash talking until then?

When was Big Boss's last billion dollar movie?

Trash talking?... You mean these aren't our arguments?

Wow, that's pretty impressive of Batman. Did the movie brake the internet every time one of the trailers was released because too many people were downloading it at once? No? Well Metal Gear did, and it's still the only thing that has.

Big Boss is also sexier than Batman.

Broke the internet? I'm not sure I follow.

Not even. Batman crushes superior ass.

Dick Grayson learned from him.

Before Metal Gear Solid 2 was released, every time a new trailer was released Konami servers would break down from overflooding. That's a feat unheard of outside Metal Gear.

Big Boss HAS a better ass.

#57 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.

That wasn't supposed to be a full game and it was a great deal for the 20 dollar price goddammit.

I won't be replying until Friday, just so you know. Would you like to continue trash talking until then?

When was Big Boss's last billion dollar movie?

Trash talking?... You mean these aren't our arguments?

Wow, that's pretty impressive of Batman. Did the movie brake the internet every time one of the trailers was released because too many people were downloading it at once? No? Well Metal Gear did, and it's still the only thing that has.

Big Boss is also sexier than Batman.

Broke the internet? I'm not sure I follow.

Not even. Batman crushes superior ass.

Dick Grayson learned from him.

Before Metal Gear Solid 2 was released, every time a new trailer was released Konami servers would break down from overflooding. That's a feat unheard of outside Metal Gear.

Big Boss HAS a better ass.

Well, that was in 2001. And anyway, plenty of servers crash from over-use. It happens with things like ticket sales all the time, where too many people try and purchase them at once.

You can have that one, simply because Batman rose above homoerotic suggestions all the way back in the 1950's, when people were dumb enough to consider homosexuality and pedophilia the same thing.

#58 Edited by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Peace Walker had Big Boss engaging in both, but it was consenting and later she admitted she was 21 despite having the proportions of a 14 year old, so it's all good in the hood.

#59 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Peace Walker had Big Boss engaging in both, but it was consenting and later she admitted she was 21 despite having the proportions of a 14 year old, so it's all good in the hood.

Ew. Big Boss likes underage girls.

Batman wins due his opponent being a sick pervert.

#60 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge: Peace Walker had Big Boss engaging in both, but it was consenting and later she admitted she was 21 despite having the proportions of a 14 year old, so it's all good in the hood.

Ew. Big Boss likes underage girls.

Batman wins due his opponent being a sick pervert.

Seducing fake-16 year olds inside a cardboard box is more humane than forcing a little boy to eat rats and fight crime in a spandex speedo for sexual thrills.

#61 Edited by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge: Peace Walker had Big Boss engaging in both, but it was consenting and later she admitted she was 21 despite having the proportions of a 14 year old, so it's all good in the hood.

Ew. Big Boss likes underage girls.

Batman wins due his opponent being a sick pervert.

Seducing fake-16 year olds inside a cardboard box is more humane than forcing a little boy to eat rats and fight crime in a spandex speedo for sexual thrills.

Not canon! FrankBat has no power here!

HOW'S THIS FOR HUMANE?

He turned his brutal, uncaring, assassin child into a noble superhero who sacrificed himself for his family and the world at large.

#62 Edited by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Then he got him killed. Big Boss did that to a whole army of children and then used them to successfully take over the world.

And the spandex speedo bit is a classic element, part of Batman's character forever.

#63 Edited by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Then he got him killed. Big Boss did that to a whole army of children and then used them to successfully take over the world.

And the spandex speedo bit is a classic element, part of Batman's character forever.

Big Boss uses child soldiers? He's a pedophile and a war criminal? ;)

Damian made the choice to leave the cave by himself, against Batman's wishes. That's what Damian's letter was for.

Eh. It was the 1940. It wasn't weird back that.

#64 Edited by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Big Boss is a supervillain, calling him a war criminal isn't a diss, it's a fact.

Calling Batman a bad parent who can neither discipline nor protect his child? Now that's a diss.

#65 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Big Boss is a supervillain, calling him a war criminal isn't a diss, it's a fact.

Calling Batman a bad parent who can neither discipline nor protect his child? Now that's a diss.

When you factor in who Batman's child as, I'd say he did a pretty good job. Anyway, Batman was surprisngly soft on Damian at times, I will admit, but he was better for it.

Big Boss will just be another name on the list of pedophelic war criminals Batman has kicked the crap out of.

#66 Edited by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

Get ready...

Physicals:

As a general frame for Batman's physicals, I'll just that through sheer willpower and dedication, he's forged himself into a human weapon, who's peak physical ability blurs the line between peak human and enhanced human stats.

Just to show how obscenely fit Bruce is, I'll display his performance during a stress test:

The man has literally no stress at all, something that shouldn't be possible in regular humans.

Just look out his workout routine:

However, it's no use just going on about his physicals from a general standpoint. How do they translate into combat?

They translate very well.

In terms of endurance, Bruce's ability to keep fighting nonstop is nothing short of legendary.

He's fought for 28 hours straight, while only in training:

In another ridiculous display of endurance, Bruce was captured by the Court of Owls:

Once in their Labyrinth, he survived for over a week with nothing for sustenance except drug laced water:

And yet, the Court isn't finished with him. Despite his drug addled state and despite being mentally drained, William Cobb is sent to dispatch him.

As you can see, Bruce is impaled right through the side and is left bleeding like a stuffed pig, he's kicked through a concrete wall and clawed at and held down by a mob:

And how does Bruce respond to the ridiculous amount of non-stop, week long torture he's been put through? By getting back up and kicking Cobb's arse, of course.

Even through Bruce should be dead from all this, he still has enough left in him to put Cobb through a wall, avoid his superhumanly fast blows and figure out a way to escape the Labyrinth. Impressive, no?

While true, he doesn't exactly Big Boss's enhanced human endurance, he won't be tiring himself out trying to fight Boss.

In your cases with Big Boss, how do these durability/endurance feats translate into combat? Are peak humans unable to hurt Big Boss, or does he have Captain-America-syndrome where those feats don't matter when he's actually fighting someone or taking a punch?

Speedwise, I wouldn't be so quick to count Bruce out.

In terms of running speed, he cleared 10 feet in under a second. Not bad:

Here are some of his various speed feats against bullets:

He's outright deflected bullets from assault rifles after they've been fired:

Matrix-esque dodged a hail of gunfire from cops, alongside Wrath:

Matrix-dodges a shot fired by Clayface (disguised as Gordon):

And deflected more gunfire using a chain, at close range:

And in a more recent, New 52 example, he blocks 3 bullets using his gauntlet, when taken completely by surprise:

So, all things considered, Boss's gunfire won't be something Bruce hasn't seen before.

In any case, given Boss's own enhanced human speed, he'll certainly have an edge in that regard, it won't be anything that will be too overwhelming for Bruce to contend with.

Bruce has tagged a young Kid Flash and embarrassed the Teen Titans, when they were first starting out:

True, he's quite young and inexperienced, but Bruce was still capable of reacting to his straight line blitz, when he was moving at blurring speeds.

He clocked Hotshot, a speedster who was apart of a Black Ops team designed to take down Superman. Hotshot had previously blitzed Superman, when catching him by surprise, so he was obviously quite fast:

He's even dodged Doctor Light's aim:

This is impressive, considering Arthur has hit Superman moving at speeds necessary to blitz an entire crowd of villains (so it's likely he was moving at supersonic+ levels):

In any case, Snake's feats are impressive, but some of them can replicated by Bruce.

Blitzing fodder soldiers is pretty cool, but Bruce has done the same to groups of fodder, too:

And he's reacted fast enough to swap a man's cup in the time it took the dude to blink!

So these feats match anything you've shown me Snake can do.

Stealth:

Boss's stealth skills do seem impressive, but Bruce's own are the stuff of legend.

He's disappeared from a cop in the middle of a wide, well lit room:

When he's in sneak mode, not even Superman or Martian Manhunter can locate him, using their senses:

This is quite impressive, considering that Superman can see people who are invisible across every spectrum (the Intergang soldiers who had camo suits that made them undetectable, Supes saw them anyway) and can hear cries for help from freaking space.

Jay Garrick, a freaking Flash, is incapable of finding him when he doesn't wish to be seen, despite searching everywhere in an instant:

He's disappeared Azrael, despite Jean-Paul being fast enough to block bullets with his sword and having confirmed metahuman stats:

Now, I know what you're thinking. Bruce would never utilize stealth in combat, right?

Not true.

If Bruce is being fired upon or in trouble, it's will within his character to disappear:

He does so against Deadshot:

Bane, in the New 52:

Against Officer Forbes:

He's also disappeared on Wrath, when the tried to blast him away with a turret:

If Bruce has trouble, he'll simply ninja his way out, as he has before.

Now, not only is Bruce a master of stealth, but he's a master of discovering stealthy opponents....

Cassandra Cain is incapable of sneaking up or tracking him without him knowing:

The same Cassandra Cain who as taught assassination techniques her whole life and could keep tabs in Tim Drake all day, without him seeing her, despite Cass actually telling him that she'd be watching him.

He's noticed invisible opponents due to subtle things like footprints on grass or breathing:

He's the first member of the JL to detect Cheetah in the jungle, even with guys like Cyborg and Superman around:

And he'll be difficult for Snake to get the drop on. Bruce managed to detect and dodge Titan's Tomorrow Superman's heat vision, despite being ambused:

And I gotta ask, how good was The End's "plant talking"? Was it like Jack Hawksmoore's ability to talk to cities or was it some mammer of highly advanced tracking? In any case, guys like Superman and Martian Manhunter have much greater senses than a mound of shrubbery and Bruce has snuck on them. ;)

Batman has picked up on things Superman and Cyborg have failed to notice. Plants and tress don't have skills of observation or perception. They can't make educated guesses, have hunches or use strategy to figure out where Snake can and will strike next.

Bruce however, being the detective that he is, can do these things.

Anyway, I think that's all from me, for now. @nickzambuto, your turn, man. :)

#67 Posted by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio

Excited to see this get off.

Online
#68 Posted by WarBlade539 (4678 posts) - - Show Bio

Loving the trash-talking er....arguments so far. :D

#69 Posted by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge:

Beastly opener bro. Reminds me why you're in my league :)

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#70 Edited by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio
#71 Posted by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio
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#72 Posted by Frozen (15005 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice.

#73 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge:

Beastly opener bro. Reminds me why you're in my league :)

I'm your slight superior.

Why is it you love posting gifs of handsome, suit wearing men? Do I detect a fetish?

#74 Posted by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio
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#75 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge:

Beastly opener bro. Reminds me why you're in my league :)

I'm your slight superior.

Why is it you love posting gifs of handsome, suit wearing men? Do I detect a fetish?

My only fetish is for you!

Curse you and your black muscles! If it wasn't for them, then I wouldn't be having these feelings!

Everything else about you sickens me! Then again, that's why paper bags exist, right?

#76 Posted by tparks (5165 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a great CaV. I could do without all of the feats and strategy though. I think you guys should really get back to the heart of this debate and discuss issues like these:

Big Boss HAS a better ass.

Or

Big Boss will just be another name on the list of pedophelic war criminals Batman has kicked the crap out of.

And of course,

Seducing fake-16 year olds inside a cardboard box is more humane than forcing a little boy to eat rats and fight crime in a spandex speedo for sexual thrills.

If called out for votes, I will base my opinion solely on these issues.

Seriously, this is an entertaining thread.

#77 Edited by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: You don't know how strong my attraction for you is!! Every time I see you debating, I get a funny feeling in my heart and get all flustered!

Online
#78 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: You don't know how strong my attraction for you is!! Every time I see you debating, I get a funny feeling in my heart and get all flustered!

You might just need to visit a doctor.

#79 Posted by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge: You don't know how strong my attraction for you is!! Every time I see you debating, I get a funny feeling in my heart and get all flustered!

You might just need to visit a doctor.

This is love! Accept me!

Online
#80 Posted by reaverlation (16968 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice stooge!

Online
#81 Edited by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Even unattractive dressed as Batman get all sorts of chicks:

Batman's level of sex is so potent that it radiates to his fans. Just ask @saren, @frozen or @lvenger.

#82 Edited by reaverlation (16968 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Edited by Frozen (15005 posts) - - Show Bio
#84 Posted by Wolverine08 (44962 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman>Everyone.

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#85 Edited by Thanatic (444 posts) - - Show Bio

isn't Big Boss considered the greatest soldier of the 20th century in the mgs universe

#86 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanatic said:

isn't Big Boss considered the greatest soldier of the 20th century in the mgs universe

Sure. That alone doesn't translate into beating Bruce, though.

#87 Edited by NeonGameWave (8317 posts) - - Show Bio

This debate is very entertaining, I really like both openers so far :)

#88 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanatic said:

isn't Big Boss considered the greatest soldier of the 20th century in the mgs universe

You know it.

@comicstooge I take it that you didn't tag me in your reply because you're afraid of my response.

#89 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@thanatic said:

isn't Big Boss considered the greatest soldier of the 20th century in the mgs universe

You know it.

@comicstooge I take it that you didn't tag me in your reply because you're afraid of my response.

That must be it!

#90 Posted by ShootingNova (18636 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't seen Nickzambuto debate since forever. I'd like to be tagged in this one, please.

Online
#91 Posted by nothingistrue13 (101 posts) - - Show Bio

1-1

#92 Edited by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: (Unfinished post, don't reply yet)

Just to show how obscenely fit Bruce is, I'll display his performance during a stress test:

The man has literally no stress at all, something that shouldn't be possible in regular humans.

That's more of a testament to his mental and emotional security than anything physical. Having no stress speaks fathoms to just how high Bruce Wayne has risen above normal men, but it doesn't actually give him any advantage over Big Boss.

Just look out his workout routine:

A Bruce Lee exercise schedule doesn't really match up to a guy who's career in life is taking down Metal Gears. Again this is quite a testament to Bruce's excellent physical condition, but in the Metal Gear universe that regime isn't much more intense than the FOXHOUND entrance exam, and FOXHOUND soldiers are cannon fodder.

Physical

  • Physical fitness test
  • Short-distance running
  • Uninterrupted performance of 80 push-ups
  • Uninterrupted performance of 100 sit-upsFOXHOUND excercise
  • FOXHOUND recruits doing sit-ups.
  • 50 meter freestyle-stroke swim
  • Combat diving skill
  • Cross-country march (travelling 64 km [40 miles] in under 15 hours, carrying a 30 kg [67 pounds] backpack)

Psychological

  • Mental recovery, concentration, endurance, self-control and the fortitude to overcome difficult situations
  • ESP expectancy score
  • Marksmanship
  • Recognizing and making decisions in emergency situations

Intelligence

  • Foreign languages
  • Foreign geography
  • Knowledge of world events
  • Advanced technology
  • Medical procedures
  • Detonation operations
  • Stealth communication
  • Foreign weaponry

After passing the selection courses, the recruits then partake in professional training exercises (also known as drills), which include:

  • Battlefield survival (14 weeks)
  • Shooting practice (must score at least 95% for a target at 914 m [3,000 ft], and 100% for a target at 548 m [1,800 ft])
  • Guard patrol
  • Mountaineering
  • FOXHOUND Mountain Climbing drill
  • Hand-to-hand combat
  • Border infiltration
  • Guerrilla warfare
  • Land navigation
  • Map-reading
  • Escape and evasion
  • Combat medical skills
  • Rebelling and Ranger practice
  • Weapons familiarization
  • Nautical vehicle control and navigation
  • Diving and underwater infiltration
  • Canoeing
  • Basic military parachute skills (4 weeks)
  • Special operations freefall practice (High-Altitude, Low-Opening [HALO] and High-Altitude, High-Opening [HAHO])
  • 11 jumps carrying little to no combat equipment ("Hollywood")
  • 15 jumps with full combat equipment
  • 2 nighttime jumps
  • 2 mass-tactical strategic jumps
  • Intelligence gathering
  • Language and customs of the destination country (4 weeks)
  • Stealth techniques
  • Improvised explosive devices
  • Utilization of high-tech equipment
  • Communications (16 weeks)
  • Medical exam (10 weeks)
  • Torture endurance

In terms of running speed, he cleared 10 feet in under a second. Not bad:

Not bad is right, but Snake's basic sprint speed in Ground Zeroes is 10 meters per second.

Here are some of his various speed feats against bullets:

As impressive as those bullet timing feats are, bullet timing feats in themselves aren't the best way to gauge speed. Batman can dodge gunfire but that's never stopped him from getting tagged by characters considerably slower than bullets. Most of Big Boss's speed feats are combat related, which gives him a very distinct advantage over Batman. Just for the sake of argument John has a few bullet dodging feats of his own, but this is one area where Metal Gear never really gets as ridiculous as comic books do so keep that in mind.

Snake Dodges Bullets

Big Boss dodges a bullet, fired from behind him, with no warning other than the sound of the shot itself going off.

Snake Saves Amanda

Big Boss outraces a stream of turret fire, saving Amanda and simultaneously avoiding the rounds himself.

Snake Dodges Arrows

Big Boss evades a barrage of crossbow bolts propelled towards him at super speed.

Ocelot's Draw

No actual projectile dodging, but Big Boss is able to react to Ocelot's draw and take cover before the bullets come out. This is impressive because Ocelot has beaten lightning on the draw.

Admittedly Naked Snake's bullet dodging doesn't quite match up with Batman's, but I feel like Batman almost has an unfair advantage in that regard just because of the nature of comic books. If you look at the Metal Gear comic books, the characters bullet timing feats are easily on par with Batman's. The problem is that Naked Snake is a video game character, so his big battles need to be gameplay segments. But just considering the fact that he's taken on small armies and Metal Gears in canon and never been shot once, and the fact that he can survive a prolonged gunfight against Revolver Ocelot without being tagged (a marksman of equal caliber to Deadshot), I'd say Batman's bullet dodging feats shouldn't really give him an advantage in a fight.

Bruce has tagged a young Kid Flash and embarrassed the Teen Titans, when they were first starting out:

True, he's quite young and inexperienced, but Bruce was still capable of reacting to his straight line blitz, when he was moving at blurring speeds.

He clocked Hotshot, a speedster who was apart of a Black Ops team designed to take down Superman. Hotshot had previously blitzed Superman, when catching him by surprise, so he was obviously quite fast:

The problem with speedster feats is that we can never know exactly how fast they were actually going, the Hotshot instance in particular is in question because Batman was able to hear him, meaning Hotshot wasn't going any faster than sound because he would have attacked Batman without warning.

Keeping that in mind, Big Boss can top the Hotshot feat by his ability to keep up with Null, a character who swings his sword much faster than just mach 1.

Snake vs Null

Snake vs Null 2

Even when caught by surprise, as Snake was in the bottom gif, he can match Null's speed and dodge hit strikes. Below is the aftermath of their fight.

Snake was able to match the genetically enhanced "Perfect Soldier" in CQC and in the end had him on his knees half dead.

The Kid Flash instance is less clear on exactly how fast he was going, but we do know that he was at least moving at "blur" speeds as you mentioned. Big Boss can top that with his ability to contend with Gene in close combat, Gene being a character who was enhanced by the "Successor Project" and can speedblitz superhumans, has weaved his body through gatling gun fire so quickly he appeared to be standing still, and can tag a casual bullet timer with throwing knives which he tosses faster than the eye can see.

This scene should give you an idea of how quickly Gene moves, as he blitzes a precog faster than the speed of thought. He's actually a bit of a speedster himself, but Big Boss was able fight him on even ground.

The below cutscene shows the aftermath of their battle.

Not to lowball Batman, but everybody has their tagging a speedster feat, it's just one move, a reflex. Big Boss meanwhile is capable of actually fighting against these characters in close quarters combat, trading blows, countering attacks, etc. You see where I'm going with this? Batman's kneejerk reactions are equal to Snake's combat speed. Suffice to say that is quite an advantage on the soldier's part.

Now I'm not saying Big Boss can match Gene in raw speed, or even Null for that matter. I'd say defeating them does indeed take quite a level of speed, but skill was just as much a part of it. Keep in mind, Null was an actual killing machine responsible for murdering dozens of trained soldiers before he even hit puberty, and then went on to become the only survivor of the "Perfect Soldier Project" where he had his memories, emotions, and all other mental facets purged to leave room only for combat techniques and experience, while Gene was the highest ranking agent in FOX and was skilled enough to infiltrate Groznyj Grad and rescue Sokolov, two facts which alone already make him one of the greatest soldiers across the globe, and his combat patterns were mirrored after those of The Boss herself. So not only was Snake fighting men with monstrous physical advantages over him, but they happened to be extremely talented fighters as well, and he was skilled enough to overcome them both on the same day.

So that's just a quick blurb on Boss's fighting skill, just in case you were beginning to think stats was all he had to his name.

Blitzing fodder soldiers is pretty cool, but Bruce has done the same to groups of fodder, too:

The feats are not comparable in the least my man, Batman snatched the guns away from three mobster goons the same way a high school bully snatches someone's books away, whereas Big Boss systematically took down eight CIA spec ops soldiers one after the other before a single one could react to shoot their gun. That's ridiculous speed, their weapons were already aimed, all it would have taken was a twitch of their finger and yet there was no time for that. Batman was actually put in a similar situation in the "Don't Blink" storyline (I can provide scans if you want) and stated himself that he had to rely on the civilians around to keep the soldiers from shooting, otherwise he'd be screwed.

And he's reacted fast enough to swap a man's cup in the time it took the dude to blink!

Again Big Boss can top that. He was able to snatch Dr. Strangelove's key card away without her or anybody else noticing as I showed in my last post. No blink required for him, they just simply couldn't see him. So while these feats are all definitely insane showings, against Big Boss they just fall short.

In terms of endurance, Bruce's ability to keep fighting nonstop is nothing short of legendary.

He's fought for 28 hours straight, while only in training:

Well during Operation Snake Eater, Big Boss stayed awake for over two days in enemy territory constantly sneaking and fighting, and he never seemed any worse for wear for it.

That's more raw stamina rather than endurance though, if it's a staying awake contest Snake will probably win, but once the punches start flying will power is what's going to matter. Big Boss had the will to basically deny death during MGS4, where he survived the FOXDIE virus for over 10 minutes.

15:00 Big Boss states that FOXDIE has already begun eating away his body.

15:33 FOXDIE activates.

27:10 Big Boss finally dies.

Now up until this point, FOXDIE has killed every one else infected with it almost instantly. Not even Liquid Snake could resist FOXDIE for longer than a few seconds.

Now keep in mind, Liquid had superior genes to Big Boss and enough will power of his own to resist extreme torture for years in Iraq and endure several grievous wounds dealt to him by Solid Snake, yet FOXDIE cut him down instantly. That's because FOXDIE triggers apoptosis in the heart cells, but Big Boss was like "lol whatevs". Mathematically that means Big Boss can survive over 70 times the punishment needed to kill a regular man; it's silly but worth mentioning.

Now in regards to the Court of Owls incident, to be fair Batman was doomed until a picture of Alan Wayne motivated him, and he was pretty much losing his mind as he fought against the Talon. It's still one of the best feats a peak human could ask for, but I believe Jack can match it.

Volgin Punches Shagohad

Colonel Volgin was strong enough to easily punch holes through the Shagohad's armor, and his electricity powers had enough juice to get the mech running despite severe damage to it's motor. As you can see in the image, Snake had previously claimed his RPG wasn't doing any damage to the Shagohad, so Volgin is pretty strong to say the least.

A fatigued Snake was beaten by a bloodlusted Volgin continuously for over two minutes, losing countless pints of blood in the process, and then brutally tortured, electrocuted, and beaten some more, had his eye shot out, and finally got shot in the leg.

And Volgin wasn't going easy on Snake either, he's a sadist known for killing the people he interrogates before they even have the chance to give up information. After the torture Ocelot even congratulated Snake on surviving.

After enduring all this punishment, Snake was able to outsmart the soldier guarding his cell, escape prison, and then sneak through the world's most powerful and heavily guarded military base with no gear, no camouflage, shirtless and half-crippled without being detected. Unfortunately for him they noticed he wasn't in his cell and sent the Ocelot Unit after him, where he outraced the most elite unit in GRU plus a bunch of attack dogs, and took a headfirst dive down a waterfall. Overall a supreme showing of skill and intelligence in the face of death on Snake's part.

I bet you thought it was over didn't you? Well on top of all that stuff, Snake was then sucked into the afterlife by The Sorrow and forced to feel all the sorrow of every person he has ever killed. Spoilers: It's a lot.

Experiencing all that pain and fear and misery all at once should be enough to destroy a human being, but John manages to keep his sanity all the way through.

Now, as for your question as to whether or not Big Boss has "Captain America" syndrome, this entree from Paz's diary should answer your question.

Snake and Kazuhira Miller, an exceptional soldier in his own right, get into a brutal fist fight which lasts quite awhile, and ends with the two laughing together, seemingly feeling no pain or fatigue at all.

Those stealth feats are very impressive, nothing to add to them really except the fact that Snake has moved faster than the human eye can see too against Strangelove, so perhaps he could replicate the vanishing feats. Metal Gear doesn't really have many supermen for Snake to sneak up on, but personally I would think Gene's ESP and Ursula's precognition would make sneaking up on them just as impressive. The problem comes with using that stealth effectively in combat, which I will go into soon so don't reply just yet :)

#93 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: On second thought, I actually don't have much to say about stealth. The two seem on pretty even ground to be honest. What I will say is that Snake's natural senses and instincts might be slightly sharper than the dark knight's, being a super soldier and all.

He was able to detect the Ocelot Unit sneaking up on him through a brick wall right after waking up.

He was able to eavesdrop on a conversation happening like, a kilometer away.

Going back to the torture scene, Big Boss is one of the few people who was able to keep track of Ocelot's gun juggling, and then intercept him right before he shot EVA. Unfortunately he was a little off due to being barely alive and ended up taking the bullet himself. However don't think that his right eye is a weakness.

Right after losing the eye Snake tried to catch a butterfly and missed. However in a matter of hours he managed to perfectly compensate for the loss and caught a C3 butterfly without looking.

As good as Batman's stealth is, none of those characters he's vanished on have the situational awareness of Big Boss. Bane would have been close in the Pre-52, but Batman can only vanish on him in the New 52 where he's much more brutish. Likewise as good as Batgirl's H2H is, she's no Naked Snake when it comes to stealth.

Personally in my opinion, it's anyone's guess whether or not either of these two can detect the other. The match probably won't come down to stealth because of that, other factor's like CQC and gear are more determining. Big Boss's physical skills are considerably stronger than Batman's, and he also has a huge advantage in his willingness to use lethal force and firearms.

#94 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't forgotten about this thread.

#95 Edited by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, I'll have my post up shortly...

#96 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: I was rather enjoying this, I get it if you're too busy or not motivated, but is there any possible way we could go just a few more posts?

#97 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: I was rather enjoying this, I get it if you're too busy or not motivated, but is there any possible way we could go just a few more posts?

I'm just busy. :)

English exam last week and Maths exam tomorrow.

I'll have a response up by tomorrow night.

#98 Posted by nickzambuto (14372 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Good, I'm just wondering if you actually don't WANT to continue. If you say you're just busy though then I get it. I mean Big Boss is scary but c'mon, even I think Batman can at least put up a fight.

#99 Posted by YoungJustice (6887 posts) - - Show Bio

Nick's MGS debates slay me.

#100 Posted by ComicStooge (13705 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Good, I'm just wondering if you actually don't WANT to continue. If you say you're just busy though then I get it. I mean Big Boss is scary but c'mon, even I think Batman can at least put up a fight.

Not only will he put up a fight, he'll put his armored boot up Big Boss's ass.