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#1 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio
Represented by ComicStooge

VS

Represented by Nicknamzbuto

Location:

Rules

- Morals on

- Bats has his New 52 Suit/Gear

- Boss has his gear from Metal Gear Solid 3

- Pre/Post reboot feats are both usable for Bruce

- Snake starts atop the building in the centre of the image

- Bruce starts on the ground

- No knowledge

#2 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto how's it look?

Anyway, here's my assessment of the fight:

#3 Posted by dondave (36621 posts) - - Show Bio

Should be good

#4 Posted by Frozen (12930 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by Beware_My_Power (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

:O

Been waiting for this one...

#6 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16811 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, comparing the pics.. hardened soldier vs cosplaying n00b. No offense bruce.

But anyway, good luck to you guys.

Online
#7 Edited by Iragexcudder (4601 posts) - - Show Bio

D:

#8 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto how's it look?

Anyway, here's my assessment of the fight:

I've never played MSG3. I didn't even know MSG was a game, all this time I thought it was MGS.

You clearly have more knowledge on the franchise than me so I'm afraid I must humbly bow out of this debate.

Not really.

#9 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto how's it look?

Anyway, here's my assessment of the fight:

I've never played MSG3. I didn't even know MSG was a game, all this time I thought it was MGS.

You clearly have more knowledge on the franchise than me so I'm afraid I must humbly bow out of this debate.

Not really.

You've never played Metal Solid Gear? Noob. It's the game where Boss gets his head stomped in by a fellow dressed as flying rodent.

#10 Posted by Bruxae (13649 posts) - - Show Bio

More arguments, less troll. (Tag me for voting)

#11 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@bruxae said:

More arguments, less troll. (Tag me for voting)

Yes m'am.

#12 Edited by reaverlation (15646 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome!

#13 Edited by cooljammy18 (943 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't disappoint me nick....

Also, tag me plz.

#14 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

Most likely going to be sick. Both viners here are exceptionally adept at arguing for their respective characters from what I've seen of them.

#15 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

Most likely going to be sick. Both viners here are exceptionally adept at arguing for their respective characters from what I've seen of them.

Thanks, man. I'm sure this'll be just as challenging as our Batman vs Cap CAV (did we ever count votes on that?).

#16 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

Most likely going to be sick. Both viners here are exceptionally adept at arguing for their respective characters from what I've seen of them.

Thanks, man. I'm sure this'll be just as challenging as our Batman vs Cap CAV (did we ever count votes on that?).

I remember someone counted the votes and said that we stalemated tit for tat. YOU DIDN'T BREAK THE STREAK!

#17 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

Most likely going to be sick. Both viners here are exceptionally adept at arguing for their respective characters from what I've seen of them.

Thanks, man. I'm sure this'll be just as challenging as our Batman vs Cap CAV (did we ever count votes on that?).

I remember someone counted the votes and said that we stalemated tit for tat. YOU DIDN'T BREAK THE STREAK!

This is the song I play whenever I post in our Wolverine vs Cyclops CAV, on repeat:

#18 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Yikes, hyping yourself up.... I better make sure I don't lose! Can't take the gloating that will follow!

#19 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Yikes, hyping yourself up.... I better make sure I don't lose! Can't take the gloating that will follow!

This will be laflux after I win:

#20 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge: Yikes, hyping yourself up.... I better make sure I don't lose! Can't take the gloating that will follow!

This will be laflux after I win:

#21 Posted by Thitiki (3518 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice match up. Tag me for voting.

#22 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Edited by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh lord, he's seriously made it his avatar now.....

#26 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh lord, he's seriously made it his avatar now.....

MY CAV WITH NICK WILL KEEP ME IN PRIME FORM, READY TO CRUSH YOUR STREAK.

#27 Posted by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

Oh lord, he's seriously made it his avatar now.....

MY CAV WITH NICK WILL KEEP ME IN PRIME FORM, READY TO CRUSH YOUR STREAK.

#28 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

Oh lord, he's seriously made it his avatar now.....

MY CAV WITH NICK WILL KEEP ME IN PRIME FORM, READY TO CRUSH YOUR STREAK.

I'VE GONE MILDLY INSANE WITH DELIRIUM, OUT OF SHEER ANTICIPATION.

#29 Edited by Wolverine08 (41257 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

Oh lord, he's seriously made it his avatar now.....

MY CAV WITH NICK WILL KEEP ME IN PRIME FORM, READY TO CRUSH YOUR STREAK.

I'VE GONE MILDLY INSANE WITH DELIRIUM, OUT OF SHEER ANTICIPATION.

No need to get all hyped up just to lose!

#30 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

@comicstooge said:

@wolverine08 said:

Oh lord, he's seriously made it his avatar now.....

MY CAV WITH NICK WILL KEEP ME IN PRIME FORM, READY TO CRUSH YOUR STREAK.

I'VE GONE MILDLY INSANE WITH DELIRIUM, OUT OF SHEER ANTICIPATION.

No need to get all hyped up just to lose!

#31 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyway, onto the matter at hand...

@nickzambuto do you wanna go first or should I?

#32 Edited by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge:

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto how's it look?

Anyway, here's my assessment of the fight:

I've never played MSG3. I didn't even know MSG was a game, all this time I thought it was MGS.

You clearly have more knowledge on the franchise than me so I'm afraid I must humbly bow out of this debate.

Not really.

You've never played Metal Solid Gear? Noob. It's the game where Boss gets his head stomped in by a fellow dressed as flying rodent.

Oh, you are so going down.

Your opening assessment was quite, uh, concise, but there's one flaw: Big Boss is an entirely different beast from Solid Snake. Let me start by addressing the physical difference between John and Bruce Wayne. Unlike Batman who is a traditional peak human, Big Boss's body holds an abundance of "Soldier Genes", genetic traits linked to creating a more powerful warrior. The genes in Big Boss's body were so strong, that after he died, his corpse was deemed "a treasure to mankind" or something to that effect, and studying it led to numerous breakthroughs in gene therapy. He's not peak human like Batman, rather he was born physically superior on the genetic level, capable of doing more and thinking faster than any normal man ever could.

Liquid Snake describes Big Boss's genome as "a foundation of perfection" and claims that his "military mind and combat abilities were unparalleled throughout the world"

Colonel Campbell states that Big Boss's corpse is "potentially more dangerous than all the nuclear warheads on Shadow Moses Island put together."

John is more in the same vein as characters like Captain America or Black Panther rather than Batman, as his body allows him to do certain things that I believe are beyond Bruce Wayne's scope. I could list away things like "superhuman" or "hypersonic" for hours, but labels are only useful when they further pursuit of the truth. It might be a better idea to just show you how tough Big Boss's body is.

Naked Snake pilots a drone from an altitude of over 30,000 feet at mach 3 wearing only his field uniform, whereas the pilots chasing him had to wear pressurized suits and oxygen aids. This is followed by a very rough landing at 10:30. Keep in mind, this was one week after Snake endured numerous fatal injuries during the Virtuous Mission, and it's blatantly stated by one of the world's foremost medics, Dr. Clark, that he shouldn't have even been out of the hospital yet, let alone on a mission.

Snake jumps from over 300 feet in the air straight to solid land and sustains no injuries.

Snake jumps from such a height that he doesn't land for nearly 10 seconds, and again sustains no injuries.

Snake gets blasted by a tank.

Snake survives the Pupa's explosion from inside it's AI pod.

Snake stands at ground zero of an ICBM launch without having his atoms scrambled. This is the only thing thus far that has actually knocked him out.

Other miscellaneous feats of Jack's inhuman endurance include:

  • Twice surviving a large fall into a body of water at Tselinoyarsk from such a height that all other soldiers would die upon impact, both times already seriously injured with numerous broken bones, and both times sustaining no additional damage despite landing head first.
  • Fought and defeated The Fury while the area they were in burned from the flames of the latter's rocket-fuel laced flamethrower.
  • Survived getting blown up by a bomb hidden inside Paz's stomach and then being exposed to the resulting inferno with minimal injuries.
  • Survived getting crushed by a helicopter.
  • Barely survived Outer Heaven's self destruct in his old age with the fortress's explosion being so powerful that it was later reported as an earthquake, and still had the strength to not only escape the facility in time to avoid NATO's aerial bombardment of the entire area, but managed to save several of his soldiers as well despite being dealt near-fatal injuries by his son earlier.
  • Survived having his body set on fire by Solid Snake, who thought he was dead.

Not even getting into actual endurance and will power, it should be clear how hard Batman will need to need to work if he wants to put Big Boss down. With the detective's main method of offense being his fists, he's at a large disadvantage against Snake's various firearms and explosives. But I'll get into that later, I want to keep the focus on Boss's stats for now.

Batman is out of his league in speed. Big Boss is capable of physically outracing military vehicles while carrying full grown men over his shoulders and has climbed mountains in seconds. After being tortured and shot in the leg he outran attack dogs, and at one point he even outran The Fury on his rocket-fuel powered jetpack. His mentor, The Boss, has gone so far as to state that if Jack wanted to abandon Operation Snake Eater, he could easily run the 50 miles through dense jungle all the way to the border in a single night. I know these are travel speed feats and not entirely applicable to combat, but they still speak of a general level of speed Big Boss possesses that I do not think Batman can match.

You can see how far Snake is from the base of the staircase in this image.

Snake Run 2

Yet in this gif he clears it almost instantly.

Snake Run 1

Snake is quite a distance from the AI Pod.
When the camera zooms in the player hears
a barrage of footsteps for three seconds,
and then Snake is
in the pod.

All examples of Snake clearing large spaces in a short amount of time. This speed is carried over into Snake's combat speed, in which he is almost imperceptible.

Snake gets surrounded by 8 soldiers with rifles aimed at him, he manages to speedblitz them all before a single one can twitch their fingers to fire, and then sprints right up to Dr. Strangelove and snatches her key card off her chest without her even noticing.

The only thing I can see Batman possibly surpassing Big Boss in is raw lifting strength, but even then Snake isn't a slouch. He can manhandle full grown men with one arm, throw full grown men across the room, hurl one soldier into another hard enough to knock them both out, deadlift industrial shutters up and over his head, and even catch giant robots when they attempt to crush him (obviously game mechanics, but it goes to show just how much of a powerhouse Big Boss is supposed to be since he's the only playable character who can do that)

Big Boss Slam

Snake Throws Soldier

Ground Zeroes CQC

Snake Lifts Shutter

Big Boss Catches Cocoon

Big Boss Catches Zeke

Proof of everything I just said.

I believe Big Boss's physical superiority is pretty clear. Using these advantages, especially speed, he should be capable of securing the upperhand when it comes to stealth. After all, if Big Boss is anything, he's always been smart.

As great as Batman is at hide n' seek, I'm pretty sure Big Boss has a better track history of actually making use of stealth in combat. I mean it's his main schtick, it's how he beats all the big baddies. Batman tends to use stealth just for vanishing and lulz, but Snake actually puts it to use in fights. He is an expert in guerrilla warfare, host to a wealth of knowledge after having been trained extensively as both an agent of FOX and as the personal disciple of The Boss, and later during the Vietnam War as an LRRP and SOG, making him a heavily experienced guerrilla by the time of Peace Walker where it's mentioned that he continued his training in self-study, reading various books and studying classic warriors such as Sun Tsu and Che Guevara. Big Boss has used his guerrilla tactics effectively against helicopters, tanks, cyborgs, super villains, the majority of his boss battles actually.

In terms of raw sneaking, Big Boss is hard to beat, I'll put it that way.

Snake eavesdrops on a precog, Ursula was not only powerful enough to foresee the entire plot of the Metal Gear franchise, but she also had a danger sense and displayed the ability to detect those trying to be sneaky. However she could not detect Snake.

Snake sneaks up on Gene and puts a gun to his head. Gene has ESP and is a bit of a stealth master himself, making this extremely impressive.

Snake's stealth and knowledge of guerrilla tactics and warfare in conjunction with his arsenal makes him a very dangerous opponent. Basically, there is no reason for this battle not to go exactly like Snake's battle with The End went.

This is a pretty crazy feat for Big Boss, to be honest. It requires a bit of explanation, here's the abridged version. The End is a legendary 100 year old sniper who played a major part in winning World War II, known for his ability to wait for days, weeks, or months completely stationary until he gets his target. He's basically the man who invented sniping, or at least, the modern image we have of it and all the techniques involved in it. He possesses super human strength, speed, and endurance, and his special Moss Camo blends him with the Earth and makes him virtually invisible. Not only that, but The End is part plant and can monitor his body heat to fool infrared, perform photosynthesis on himself for unlimited stamina, and can "talk" to the forest.

Snake, who admits to being an inexperienced sniper at this time, defeats him at his own game, staying hidden and hunting The End down. You know how when someone is being stealthy they say they have to "become one with the environment" or something like that? Well the environment here was a forest, which The End could talk to, meaning that in this battle Big Boss was so stealthy, the environment itself did not know where he was.

This battle can easily go the way of Snake taking things slowly and carefully until he eventually locates Batman, and then quickly sniping his head off.

#33 Edited by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

Where'd all my goddamn videos go.

Edit: Wait there they are. I reloaded the page and they popped up.

Are the videos not showing up for anybody?

#34 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

Where'd all my goddamn videos go.

Edit: Wait there they are. I reloaded the page and they popped up.

Are the videos not showing up for anybody?

I can see them. It's late here. I'll respond to you within 24 hours or so, man. :)

#35 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

Where'd all my goddamn videos go.

Edit: Wait there they are. I reloaded the page and they popped up.

Are the videos not showing up for anybody?

I can see them. It's late here. I'll respond to you within 24 hours or so, man. :)

I'll be eagerly waiting.

I've been experimenting with my debating style, I think the gif tactic is really effective since it gets the point across and keeps things streamlined. I made all the gifs myself and even uploaded a couple clips, took me all night but honestly I was enjoying myself way too much.

#36 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto said:

Where'd all my goddamn videos go.

Edit: Wait there they are. I reloaded the page and they popped up.

Are the videos not showing up for anybody?

I can see them. It's late here. I'll respond to you within 24 hours or so, man. :)

I'll be eagerly waiting.

I've been experimenting with my debating style, I think the gif tactic is really effective since it gets the point across and keeps things streamlined. I made all the gifs myself and even uploaded a couple clips, took me all night but honestly I was enjoying myself way too much.

I'll try to avoid scans of Bruce repeatedly beating/stalemating/one-shotting the likes of Cheetah, Wonder Woman, Captain Nazi and the whole League using nothing but his bare fists, right?

I guess that rules out his lightspeed feats, too. ;)

#37 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: And I'll try and avoid the scans of Joker speedblitzing Batman and Scarecrow nearly killing him with a blunderbuss.

(FYI Big Boss blitzed a guy with a lightspeed feat)

#38 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Bruce still has both eyes. :P

Anyway, I'll have my response up in a few hours.

#39 Edited by mkha1167 (21 posts) - - Show Bio

#40 Posted by dondave (36621 posts) - - Show Bio

Sweet

#41 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Bruce still has both eyes. :P

Snake still has both parents.

Batman has a billion dollar movie franchise and his games are better.

ZING.

#43 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@comicstooge said:

@nickzambuto: Bruce still has both eyes. :P

Snake still has both parents.

Batman has a billion dollar movie franchise and his games are better.

ZING.

Big Boss has an argument posted explaining why he wins.

ZINGA-ZING

#44 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyway, school piling up, but I'll try and find to post. :)

#45 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicstooge: Why don't you just get it over with and admit that it's clear Big Boss is too much to handle?

#46 Posted by nothingistrue13 (101 posts) - - Show Bio

Nickzambuto,

You make me proud representing BB so well.

Batman will be a very tough opponent.

#47 Posted by dajhonmccloud (786 posts) - - Show Bio

EHH ion Really know what can big boss do thats impassive really

#48 Posted by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by nickzambuto (13429 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Edited by ComicStooge (12595 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Arkham Origins can't be completed in an hour, unlike Big Boss's last outing.