Batman, Catwoman, vs Captain America, Black Widow

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:He takes down Hulk level opponents because Hulk and most grounded bricks have absolutely no fighting skill. Bats has taken down a higher caliber of SKILLED opponents than Cap has. On of top that Bats has taken down Solomon Grundy with pressure points, where Cap has taken down Hulk WITH his shield.

a·dept/əˈdept/

Adjective:	Very skilled or proficient at something.
Noun:	A person who is skilled or proficient at something.
Synonyms:	adjective. skilled - skillful - skilful - proficient - expert - deft noun. expert - connoisseur - judge - master - proficient

Adept = very skilled or proficient, not a master. Straight off of google which takes it from answers.com Dictionary.com and other sites.

I'm sorry but that was a massive fail on your behalf. Note how under synonyms it says "master".

In case you need clarification a synonym is:

syn·o·nym

[sin-uh-nim] Show IPA

noun1.a word having the same or nearly the same meaning asanother in the language, as joyful, elated, glad. A dictionaryof synonyms and their opposites, or antonyms, such asThesaurus.com is called a thesaurus.

@CalamitySam said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:He takes down Hulk level opponents because Hulk and most grounded bricks have absolutely no fighting skill. Bats has taken down a higher caliber of SKILLED opponents than Cap has. On of top that Bats has taken down Solomon Grundy with pressure points, where Cap has taken down Hulk WITH his shield.

a·dept/əˈdept/

Adjective:	Very skilled or proficient at something.
Noun:	A person who is skilled or proficient at something.
Synonyms:	adjective. skilled - skillful - skilful - proficient - expert - deft noun. expert - connoisseur - judge - master - proficient

Adept = very skilled or proficient, not a master. Straight off of google which takes it from answers.com Dictionary.com and other sites.

I'm sorry but that was a massive fail on your behalf. Note how under synonyms it says "master".

In case you need clarification a synonym is:

syn·o·nym

[sin-uh-nim] Show IPA

noun1.a word having the same or nearly the same meaning asanother in the language, as joyful, elated, glad. A dictionaryof synonyms and their opposites, or antonyms, such asThesaurus.com is called a thesaurus.

Most definitions support that it means highly skilled but not mastered though,.

Great. Thanks everyone for the grade school lessons. So back to the battle, Team 2.

@CitizenBane said:

Batman's also beaten Deathstroke by himself in the Green Arrow/Black Canary Wedding Special, but that was a silly, stupid issue and Slade eventually escaped at any rate.

I only remember Canary kicking Slade in the nuts in that issue. I'll have to reread it.

Maybe, just maybe Cap is skilled enough to possibly beat Batman. And maybe, just maybe Batman is aware of it. Hmmmm

@Siafon:Your trolling does no one any favors.

@Erik: You da man Great Debate. Aka Erik. 2 thumbs up

Oh, Hohenheim_of_light, bite me punk

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman has better equipment

What exactly is Bruce carrying these days? Without having any prep time, the normal gadgets I see are batarangs, grappling hooks, some bombs, tracer, bat cuffs, gas mask. This isn't a Liefeldize version of Batman right? He only has so many pockets in the utility belt.

If that's the case, i'll take Cap's shield over these toys. Team Marvel for the win. Bats may be a better fighter but I highly doubt it's enough to compensate for SSS and Black Widow beats down on Catwoman.

Heck, based on Catwoman #1, Cap can just beat down on Selina while Black Widow mounts Bats. Then Cap beats the crap out of Bats while he's "subdued".

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers said:

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman has better equipment

What exactly is Bruce carrying these days? Without having any prep time, the normal gadgets I see are batarangs, grappling hooks, some bombs, tracer, bat cuffs, gas mask. This isn't a Liefeldize version of Batman right? He only has so many pockets in the utility belt.

If that's the case, i'll take Cap's shield over these toys. Team Marvel for the win. Bats may be a better fighter but I highly doubt it's enough to compensate for SSS and Black Widow beats down on Catwoman.

Heck, based on Catwoman #1, Cap can just beat down on Selina while Black Widow mounts Bats. Then Cap beats the crap out of Bats while he's "subdued".

Poison gas,Smoke pellets,teasers etc

Cap cannot beat both and Black Widow will get one-shotted by Batman.

Team 2 takes this.

There should be no doubt what so ever. That Black Widow takes out Catwoman. While Batman Vs Cap has been debated to death and back again numerous times. What I see as a key factor here is this soon becomes a two on one against Batman. Cap can surely keep Bats occupied while Widow pummels Catwoman. Then comes in to join Steve in taking down the Bat. Who he could arguably do by himself.

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26 said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:He takes down Hulk level opponents because Hulk and most grounded bricks have absolutely no fighting skill. Bats has taken down a higher caliber of SKILLED opponents than Cap has. On of top that Bats has taken down Solomon Grundy with pressure points, where Cap has taken down Hulk WITH his shield.

a·dept/əˈdept/

Adjective:	Very skilled or proficient at something.
Noun:	A person who is skilled or proficient at something.
Synonyms:	adjective. skilled - skillful - skilful - proficient - expert - deft noun. expert - connoisseur - judge - master - proficient

Adept = very skilled or proficient, not a master. Straight off of google which takes it from answers.com Dictionary.com and other sites.

Namor, Spider-Man, Lady DeathStrike, Iron Fist, Wolverine, Black Panther, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Cable, Thor, Hulk, Klaw, Rhino, took on Mr. Hyde and Scorpion at the same time, Absorbing Man, Sunfire, the list goes on and on, and all of these is without prep-time.....

yeah, everyone except Deathstroke who kicks his ass every single time theyve fought. In which the the only time he was able to take him down was when he had help from Robin and Nightwing. And Deathstroke is not even as skilled in martial arts as Batman is, DS relies moreso on his enhanced abilities to secure the win. Captain America once took down several Super Soldier Serum-enhanced opponents and this is when he lost the enhancement of the SSS in his body.

and even with prep, Bats still wasnt able to beat Bronze Tiger in their rematch.

Most of those characters have virtually no fighting skill, except for Iron Fist, Wolverine, Daredevil, Taskmaster, an Deathstrike.

He never beat Wolverine, he only KO'd him in Enemy of the State because Wolverine was exhausted, he never beat Iron Fist, he's beaten Daredevil but each time he's won Daredevil's fighting skills were hampered. He's never beaten Taskmaster or Black Panther except in Contest of Champions which wasn't canon, in fact he's lost to Black Panther's grandfather. So only one he legitly beat on your list that's actually skilled is Deathstrike and possibly Cable.

Batman's beaten Deathstroke before, by himself, if you want to count losses, Cap has lost to Daredevil with a single judo throw, he's lost to Taskmaster several times.

Batman's beaten Bane, Ra's al Ghul, Deathstroke, Prometheus, David Cain, Wrath, Zeiss, Nightwing, Dan Kingdom, King Snake, Tsunetomo,

Notice the difference between my list and you're list is that everyone on my list is a credible SKILLED fighter that Batman has actually BEATEN with no circumstances, where Cap has only beaten 2 skilled opponents on your list without any strings attached.

Hell if you want to name higher tier opponents Bat's has taken out Young Justice and the Teen Titans in only a few panels including Kid Flash and Donna Troy, he's subdued Wonder Woman and Solomon Grundy with nerve strikes, hell asl ong as you're going to mention Thor, I'm going to mention Captain Marvel even though both cases are extreme PIS, I'll also mention Major Force, and Cheetah, a light speeder who's a Wonder Woman rogue. And this is all without any prep btw.

Bronze Tiger is a better martial artist than Captain America is so that isn't helping you're argument, as long as were pointing out blunders, Captain America got beat down and nearly died against the Kingpin until Redwing saved him.

Are you talkin about Batman's ONLY time beating Deathstroke because DS was on a Assassination mission to kill Gunhawk, and Bats kept pursuing him?

@MyronLee26:Yeah actually I am, and yes it's a legit win. The wrestled on the ground, Batman took Slade's rifle and bashed his face in. That's a far more credible win than Captain America beating Daredevil only because his fighting skills were hampered in both instances.

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Yeah actually I am, and yes it's a legit win. The wrestled on the ground, Batman took Slade's rifle and bashed his face in. That's a far more credible win than Captain America beating Daredevil only because his fighting skills were hampered in both instances.

Deathstroke was preoccupied trying to assassinate GunHawk, Batman was not where his main focus was. If the situation was different, as USUAL, DS wouldve more than likely Kicked Bats ass. AGAIN.

When was Daredevil's fighting skills hampered going up against Cap? Or are you talking about when Daredevil was suffering from hallucinations and thought Cap was a monster? And what proof do you have that Bronze Tiger is a better martial artist than Cap?

Captain America and Bats will instantly go for each other. Catwoman will be gone as soon as Widow land's a shot. Cap would beat batman in a straight up fight, but catwoman will mess around with him. Catwoman goes first. Then cap, then bruce.

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

@Nightcrawler23 said:

Captain America and Bats will instantly go for each other. Catwoman will be gone as soon as Widow land's a shot. Cap would beat batman in a straight up fight, but catwoman will mess around with him. Catwoman goes first. Then cap, then bruce.

Are you trying to say Black Widow would finish off Bruce?

@CitizenBane said:

@Nightcrawler23 said:

Captain America and Bats will instantly go for each other. Catwoman will be gone as soon as Widow land's a shot. Cap would beat batman in a straight up fight, but catwoman will mess around with him. Catwoman goes first. Then cap, then bruce.

Are you trying to say Black Widow would finish off Bruce?

Nah ... but CA would.

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@CitizenBane said:

@Nightcrawler23 said:

Captain America and Bats will instantly go for each other. Catwoman will be gone as soon as Widow land's a shot. Cap would beat batman in a straight up fight, but catwoman will mess around with him. Catwoman goes first. Then cap, then bruce.

Are you trying to say Black Widow would finish off Bruce?

Nah ... but CA would.

I doubt it, not based on the evidence posted in this thread so far.

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

Classic Kingpin gave Spider-Man a hard time. And Wolverine's been KO'd by getting hit in the head with the butt end of a 'thrown' katana and TKO'd by a silly karate chop to the throat by DD. Plot induced stupidy run rampant yet again. Can write a whole list chock full of Batman getting in trouble (even shot) by common street thugs. So, doesn't say much.

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

Classic Kingpin gave Spider-Man a hard time. And Wolverine's been KO'd by getting hit in the head with the butt end of a 'thrown' katana and TKO'd by a silly karate chop to the throat by DD. Plot induced stupidy run rampant yet again. Can write a whole list chock full of Batman getting in trouble (even shot) by common street thugs. So, doesn't say much.

Classic kingpin gave Spiderman a hard time because he always held back, once he cut lose he's nearly killed Fisk.

So are you counting Wolverine as a victory for Captain America? Because if so, I will remember this for future Wolverine debates.

I'm not sure what instance you're speaking of beside Year One when Batman was only having trouble because he was trying to save someone from falling off of a fire escape, and having trouble but winning is better than flat out losing.

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

Classic Kingpin gave Spider-Man a hard time. And Wolverine's been KO'd by getting hit in the head with the butt end of a 'thrown' katana and TKO'd by a silly karate chop to the throat by DD. Plot induced stupidy run rampant yet again. Can write a whole list chock full of Batman getting in trouble (even shot) by common street thugs. So, doesn't say much.

Classic kingpin gave Spiderman a hard time because he always held back, once he cut lose he's nearly killed Fisk.

So are you counting Wolverine as a victory for Captain America? Because if so, I will remember this for future Wolverine debates.

I'm not sure what instance you're speaking of beside Year One when Batman was only having trouble because he was trying to save someone from falling off of a fire escape, and having trouble but winning is better than flat out losing.

He didn't 'cut loose' on classic Kingpin. That was modern, dumbed down Fisk.

No. Wolverine was the dominant, and ultimately victorious, opponent in their fight in Origins. But Captain America gave him hell and stayed in the fight. Rupturing the nerves in Wolverine's arms preventing him from popping his claws. Impressive showing against an equally skilled, though significantly more powerful / durable opponent.

And don't make me work so hard at midnight. I know you have superior knowledge of Batman than I do. You really having trouble finding a list of less than stellar moments in Batman's career or is this just convenient memory loss? If so, I promise to post a wall of links tomorrow. :P

As far as skilled opponents, off the top of my head, CA has flat out beaten; Punisher, Winter Soldier, Bullseye, Lady Deathstrike, the Red Skull, US Agent (skilled and significantly stronger) ...

Stalemated; Daredevil (more dominant showing with SHIELD clearly stating CA would win), Iron Fist (pretty even match), Wolverine (less dominant showings but impressive considering), Black Panther (dominant) ...

As far as significantly more powerful opponents, he's beaten; Spider-Man, Beast, Klaw, Thunderstrike, Thunderball, Super Kree, beat a clone of Namor, dropped a mind controlled Namor, beat an enhanced Skrull hand to hand ... the list goes on but I'm tired.

I still give a slight majority to Steve though agree that Batman has downed more skilled opponents than Steve has. Batman simply has less impressive physical feats including speed, strength and durability. Steves skill feats with his shield are also more impressive than most anything Batman has done.

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

It does matter what Deathstroke was doing, because he wasnt focused on Bats until the very last second when Deathstroke was gettin up from being knocked down and Bats was already coming at him with that rifle.

Do you have the scan where he was KO'd after the throw from Daredevil? Cause I just see him being thrown. Or do you have the scan where it shows Taskmaster escaping?

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

Classic Kingpin gave Spider-Man a hard time. And Wolverine's been KO'd by getting hit in the head with the butt end of a 'thrown' katana and TKO'd by a silly karate chop to the throat by DD. Plot induced stupidy run rampant yet again. Can write a whole list chock full of Batman getting in trouble (even shot) by common street thugs. So, doesn't say much.

Classic kingpin gave Spiderman a hard time because he always held back, once he cut lose he's nearly killed Fisk.

So are you counting Wolverine as a victory for Captain America? Because if so, I will remember this for future Wolverine debates.

I'm not sure what instance you're speaking of beside Year One when Batman was only having trouble because he was trying to save someone from falling off of a fire escape, and having trouble but winning is better than flat out losing.

He didn't 'cut loose' on classic Kingpin. That was modern, dumbed down Fisk.

No. Wolverine was the dominant, and ultimately victorious, opponent in their fight in Origins. But Captain America gave him hell and stayed in the fight. Rupturing the nerves in Wolverine's arms preventing him from popping his claws. Impressive showing against an equally skilled, though significantly more powerful / durable opponent.

And don't make me work so hard at midnight. I know you have superior knowledge of Batman than I do. You really having trouble finding a list of less than stellar moments in Batman's career or is this just convenient memory loss? If so, I promise to post a wall of links tomorrow. :P

As far as skilled opponents, off the top of my head, CA has flat out beaten; Punisher, Winter Soldier, Bullseye, Lady Deathstrike, the Red Skull, US Agent (skilled and significantly stronger) ...

Stalemated; Daredevil (more dominant showing with SHIELD clearly stating CA would win), Iron Fist (pretty even match), Wolverine (less dominant showings but impressive considering), Black Panther (dominant) ...

As far as significantly more powerful opponents, he's beaten; Spider-Man, Beast, Klaw, Thunderstrike, Thunderball, Super Kree, beat a clone of Namor, dropped a mind controlled Namor, beat an enhanced Skrull hand to hand ... the list goes on but I'm tired.

I still give a slight majority to Steve though agree that Batman has downed more skilled opponents than Steve has. Batman simply has less impressive physical feats including speed, strength and durability. Steves skill feats with his shield are also more impressive than most anything Batman has done.

I'm pretty sure Fisk never recieved any retcons or story driven instances where he was dumbed down. You could argue that he's been written as crap though. Granted classic Fisk was never able to defeat Daredevil except when he was exausted.

I'm not denying that Cap couldn't give Wolverine a hell of a fight. I'm arguing on the validity of Wolverine getting KO'd by certain objects.

I wouldn't call Punisher a credible enough fighter to be worth mentioning, the rest of your list I'll give credit for though.

I've stated that I respect someone's opinion of Cap winning against Bruce, I'm only stating that the arguments that a certain someone gave in this thread were really poor arguments.

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@Super_SoldierXII said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:Doesn't matter what Deathstroke was doing, once Batman disarmed him of his gun he was fully focused on Bats and Bruce took his own rifle and smashed his face in

That = a win.

Captain America didn't beat Taskmaster, they both fell off of that bridge and Taskmaster escaped.

In that fight that you posted, where Daredevil and Captain America were fighting in a boxing ring, Captain America stated specifically that Daredevil was fighting like an amateur and not fighting at his best. Captain America has never beaten Daredevil in a legit fight, Daredevil has beaten Captain America in a legit fight when Captain America, Beast, Black Widow and Hercules were all fighting him.

Bronze Tiger, just like Batman, has a better track record in combat than Captain America has, has fewer losses and more wins, and doesn't have the unreasonable losses that Cap has like nearly getting killed by Kingpin and getting KO'd by a judo throw.

Classic Kingpin gave Spider-Man a hard time. And Wolverine's been KO'd by getting hit in the head with the butt end of a 'thrown' katana and TKO'd by a silly karate chop to the throat by DD. Plot induced stupidy run rampant yet again. Can write a whole list chock full of Batman getting in trouble (even shot) by common street thugs. So, doesn't say much.

Classic kingpin gave Spiderman a hard time because he always held back, once he cut lose he's nearly killed Fisk.

So are you counting Wolverine as a victory for Captain America? Because if so, I will remember this for future Wolverine debates.

I'm not sure what instance you're speaking of beside Year One when Batman was only having trouble because he was trying to save someone from falling off of a fire escape, and having trouble but winning is better than flat out losing.

He didn't 'cut loose' on classic Kingpin. That was modern, dumbed down Fisk.

No. Wolverine was the dominant, and ultimately victorious, opponent in their fight in Origins. But Captain America gave him hell and stayed in the fight. Rupturing the nerves in Wolverine's arms preventing him from popping his claws. Impressive showing against an equally skilled, though significantly more powerful / durable opponent.

And don't make me work so hard at midnight. I know you have superior knowledge of Batman than I do. You really having trouble finding a list of less than stellar moments in Batman's career or is this just convenient memory loss? If so, I promise to post a wall of links tomorrow. :P

As far as skilled opponents, off the top of my head, CA has flat out beaten; Punisher, Winter Soldier, Bullseye, Lady Deathstrike, the Red Skull, US Agent (skilled and significantly stronger) ...

Stalemated; Daredevil (more dominant showing with SHIELD clearly stating CA would win), Iron Fist (pretty even match), Wolverine (less dominant showings but impressive considering), Black Panther (dominant) ...

As far as significantly more powerful opponents, he's beaten; Spider-Man, Beast, Klaw, Thunderstrike, Thunderball, Super Kree, beat a clone of Namor, dropped a mind controlled Namor, beat an enhanced Skrull hand to hand ... the list goes on but I'm tired.

I still give a slight majority to Steve though agree that Batman has downed more skilled opponents than Steve has. Batman simply has less impressive physical feats including speed, strength and durability. Steves skill feats with his shield are also more impressive than most anything Batman has done.

I'm pretty sure Fisk never recieved any retcons or story driven instances where he was dumbed down. You could argue that he's been written as crap though. Granted classic Fisk was never able to defeat Daredevil except when he was exausted.

I'm not denying that Cap couldn't give Wolverine a hell of a fight. I'm arguing on the validity of Wolverine getting KO'd by certain objects.

I wouldn't call Punisher a credible enough fighter to be worth mentioning, the rest of your list I'll give credit for though.

I've stated that I respect someone's opinion of Cap winning against Bruce, I'm only stating that the arguments that a certain someone gave in this thread were really poor arguments.

How so?

@MyronLee26:Taskmaster wasn't seen for the rest of the fight, so he either escaped or he drowned and died.

Captain America wasn't seen for the rest of the fight, it's highly unlikely that he sat on his rear while Black Widow took on Daredevil alone.

and didnt Daredevil also cut off the lights in the Avengers mansion to use it to his advantage?

Cap and Widow obviously take this.

@MyronLee26:

It does matter what Deathstroke was doing, because he wasnt focused on Bats until the very last second when Deathstroke was gettin up from being knocked down and Bats was already coming at him with that rifle.

No it doesn't, because once Deathstroke saw him he was fully focused on Bats, they're clearly seen wrestling on the ground and Deathstroke is clearly looking at Bats when he hits him with his own rifle.

Batman is probably going down first. Cap will be all over him. Catwoman will probably just play defensive while Natasha takes cheap shots at Bruce. Widow and Cap are a better team. Catwoman is pretty selfish. Avengers are good at pinpointing they're biggest threat and cutting through any excess fat keeping them from that threat. E.G. Secret Invasion Battle. For all we know, Cap will fend off Cats with his sheild and be more offensive with bruce, while Natasha snipes from far away. Avengers are used to making plans on the spot and identifying weaknesses, whereas Batman usually collects knowledge for his master plan after fighting on multiple occasions. E.G. Secret Invasion, and every single batman fight ever. Batmans overrated and Steve and Natasha have been working together for too long. Every way this could go down involves batman and catwoman being dead and forgotten.

@Nightcrawler23 said:

Batman is probably going down first. Cap will be all over him. Catwoman will probably just play defensive while Natasha takes cheap shots at Bruce. Widow and Cap are a better team. Catwoman is pretty selfish. Avengers are good at pinpointing they're biggest threat and cutting through any excess fat keeping them from that threat. E.G. Secret Invasion Battle. For all we know, Cap will fend off Cats with his sheild and be more offensive with bruce, while Natasha snipes from far away. Avengers are used to making plans on the spot and identifying weaknesses, whereas Batman usually collects knowledge for his master plan after fighting on multiple occasions. E.G. Secret Invasion, and every single batman fight ever. Batmans overrated and Steve and Natasha have been working together for too long. Every way this could go down involves batman and catwoman being dead and forgotten.

Batman is no more overrated than Captain America is.

Widow doesn't have a sniper rifle in this fight either.

Batman is capable of identifying weaknesses and making plans on the spot, in fact he's better at this than Captain America and Black Widow are.

Are you saying that in every single Batman fight ever he collected knowledge first? I'm guessing that you don't read Batman comics since you seem to know very little about the character....seriously...

Cat and Bat aren't as experienced in team fighting as Cap and Widow imo. I'm pretty sure Widow can keep the two at bay with her guns and if Bat tries to disarm her with say a batarang or grappling hook Cap is free to hit him with the shield. Cats is the weak link and Bats can't beat beat Cap fast enough if at all.

Batman is no more overrated than Captain America is.

Disagree.  

Batman is capable of identifying weaknesses and making plans on the spot, in fact he's better at this than Captain America and Black Widow are.

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Batman is no more overrated than Captain America is.

Disagree.

Batman is capable of identifying weaknesses and making plans on the spot, in fact he's better at this than Captain America and Black Widow are.

Purely subjective. And an argument can be made that the guy with only a shield that goes up against the type of foes that Batman needs an entire arsenal of equipment to bring down, can make much more with much less.

Batman being more overrated than Captain America is also subjective, and it can also be argued that Captain America relies more on his shield than Batman does on any of his equipment. Especially when fighting other human opponents.

Cap and Widow, Catwoman is the weak link, i say willow takes her down, then helps cap finish off Batman

Batman being more overrated than Captain America is also subjective, and it can also be argued that Captain America relies more on his shield than Batman does on any of his equipment. Especially when fighting other human opponents.

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

Batman being more overrated than Captain America is also subjective, and it can also be argued that Captain America relies more on his shield than Batman does on any of his equipment. Especially when fighting other human opponents.

The way he uses his shield against humans is no more effective than the way he would and does use his fists. It that were not true, he would be cutting humans in half and crushing bodies left and right. And to say that Batman does not rely on his gear at least as much as Rogers on his shield (which for the sake of the story he often loses temporarily) is a ridiculous statement.

He's used his shield to block and used it as a long ranged weapon also, it gives him unfair advantages. Just on the previous can in the fight he had with Daredevil he was shown using it to block attacks and using it as a long ranged weapon. He used his shield to block the Iron Fist also. Batman doesn't rely on his gear as much as Captain America does his sheild, he'll use it frequently against meta's in the same fashion that Steve would use his shield, but he doesn't use weaponry on unarmed human combatants as frequently as Cap uses his shield.

@bag_o_x_men said:

I think team 2 can still pull this out. Steve can hold off Batman's attacks with his shield and agility. Once Batman's blown his inventory, its h2h, but Steve still has his shield. And BW > than CW any day of the week.

Team 2. 

@entropy_aegis said:

@bag_o_x_men said:

"I think team 2 can still pull this out. Steve can hold off Batman's attacks with his shield and agility. Once Batman's blown his inventory, its h2h, but Steve still has his shield. And BW > than CW any day of the week. "

Sonics and gas might put down cap,and bruce currently has electric gauntlets so he might dominate h2h as well,but Cw cannot stand up to BW and that might lead to batmans downfall.

Regardless!!

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light: So what? Batman uses his gear to block as well. And how does use of equipment correlate to being overrated? Batman does not use his reinforced fists or boots then? I sure did not know that. He must take them off frequently for encounters. The same must be true goes for his cowl, cape, body armor and batarangs. Maybe his smoke bombs and explosives even. I can see your point. He rarely uses any of that stuff.

The only thing I could really agree with you on here is the armor, but if Batman tried blocking the iron fist with his arms, even with reinforced gloves, it would still shatter his arms. Same goes with body armor, none of this stuff gives him nearly an unfair advantage as Cap's indestructible shield capable of ripping trucks in half. Not to mention he can't hit someone from 10 feet away with those. He could with baterangs but as I've stated before he rarely uses these against unarmed human combatants, not nearly as much as Cap throws and ricochets his shield and uses it as a long ranged attack, not to mention they wouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as the shield would.

I'm also not sure when Bats has ever used an explosive on another human combatant.

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light: So what? Batman uses his gear to block as well. And how does use of equipment correlate to being overrated? Batman does not use his reinforced fists or boots then? I sure did not know that. He must take them off frequently for encounters. The same must be true goes for his cowl, cape, body armor and batarangs. Maybe his smoke bombs and explosives even. I can see your point. He rarely uses any of that stuff.

If Batman tried blocking the iron fist with his arms, even with reinforced gloves, it would still shatter his arms. Same goes with body armor, none of this stuff gives him nearly an unfair advantage as Cap's indestructible shield capable of ripping trucks in half. Not to mention he can't hit someone from 10 feet away with those. He could with baterangs but as I've stated before he rarely uses these against unarmed human combatants, not nearly as much as Cap throws and ricochets his shield and uses it as a long ranged attack, not to mention they wouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as the shield would.

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light: So what? Batman uses his gear to block as well. And how does use of equipment correlate to being overrated? Batman does not use his reinforced fists or boots then? I sure did not know that. He must take them off frequently for encounters. The same must be true goes for his cowl, cape, body armor and batarangs. Maybe his smoke bombs and explosives even. I can see your point. He rarely uses any of that stuff.

If Batman tried blocking the iron fist with his arms, even with reinforced gloves, it would still shatter his arms. Same goes with body armor, none of this stuff gives him nearly an unfair advantage as Cap's indestructible shield capable of ripping trucks in half. Not to mention he can't hit someone from 10 feet away with those. He could with baterangs but as I've stated before he rarely uses these against unarmed human combatants, not nearly as much as Cap throws and ricochets his shield and uses it as a long ranged attack, not to mention they wouldn't do anywhere near as much damage as the shield would.

Just because Rogers has a piece of equipment that can take IF's attack, does not make him overrated. Furthermore, having this weapon does not make him more overrated because of it. If anything, it makes him underrated. There is absolutely no grounds to draw a connection between gear and how overrated a character is. I just thought the idea that someone actually is trying to make the argument that Batman does not rely on gear as much as Rogers to be absurd. True, Batman does not use his batarangs against EVERY opponent but he uses them a lot. And even barring them, Batman still uses his reinforced gloves and other gear in literally every Batman issue. And again, if anything Rogers' skill with his shield is a testament to how underrated he is considering people actually think Rogers is less of a hero without his shield. Something he has proven to be factually inaccurate every..... time.... he has lost his shield.

I didn't say that solely makes him overrated, my argument was pertaining to who relies on weaponry more. And it seems that Cap uses his shield more frequently than Bats uses equipment. There's other factors that make Cap overrated, which again is subjective just like thinking Batman is overrated. I'm arguing something completely different than Cap being overrated so we don't have to mention that again.

That being said, I know Batman uses his baterangs alot, I'm arguing that he rarely uses them against unarmed human combatants. If someone has a gun he'll use one to disarm them, if he's fighting meta's he may use an explosive baterang. Both characters use their weapons frequently, Bats obviously has more variety in his equipment but his overall use seems lower than Cap using his shield. Except for the body armor which varies from time to time, sometimes it can tank explosions and other times other human fighters have ripped through it with punches and kicks.

I wasn't trying to say that Cap can't fight without his shield, that would be an understatement, I'm well aware of the fact that Cap without his shield is still an enhanced human and a high level fighter.

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light: Rogers does not use his shield more than Batman uses his equipment. Maybe more than Batman uses select equipment sure but that is more than a bit unfair considering Rogers only has the one piece of equipment. No other factors make Rogers overrated. In fact, your arguments have been proving specifically the opposite. You essentially have been proving my point this entire debate by underrating Rogers throughout.

So if they both use their weapons against meta's, but Cap uses his shield against human combatants more so than Batman uses his equipment against human combatants, than the conclusion is that Cap uses his shield more.

I only stated that Cap might be underrated as an unarmed fighter, the notions that make him overrated are that he's some tactical mastermind [even though outside of leading teams he's rarely shown this, and I've been reading alot of his books lately] and the fact that he's the top martial artist in Marvel. Both notions which have been thrown in this very thread by other users, that's what makes him overrated. Subjective, but for someone who see's nothing more than a high level enhance fighter like myself, it's clear that there's some Captain America BS being thrown around here. You could say the same thing for Bats, but that hasn't pertained to any of my arguments that I've made.

@Assman said:

I'll take Cap & Widow, mainly cause I think Widow would make short work of Selina, and doublt tag Bats with Steve and end it.

Agreed

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light: Batman is always using his equipment. Your point is immediately made moot because of that fact alone. You are just trying to pick and choose which equipment you want to focus on. I would imagine that constantly leading your team to victory against nigh impossible odds would be more than enough to justify the tactical genius statement, if ever the fact that it is stated in comics was not enough.

I'm not arguing that Batman uses certain equipment, ei baterangs, less than Captain America uses his shield, I'm arguing that as a whole Cap uses his shield more than Batman uses any equipment. They'll both use equipment against meta's frequently, Batman will use a wider variety of equipment but overall they'll use weapons the same, but Captain America his weapon against other martial arts, like in the previous page when he fought Daredevil, than Batman does against martial artist that he fights ei David Cain etc. that means that Cap uses his weapon more, because he's using it frequently against 2 different groups of opponents, where Bats uses it frequently against one group [metas] and rarely against another [martial artist]

Well as I've stated in my previous post, Cap is tactically great when he's leading teams but it doesn't pertain well to one on one fights. If you look at a character like Deathstroke, he's a perfect example of a real time tactician pertaining to solo combat.

@Erik said:

@Hohenheim_of_light: Well your argument is wrong because Batman uses his equipment literally every single time he dons the suit. Without which his blows would be less effective even if we do not consider what can be thrown or shot. Batman uses equipment against every opponent he has fought unless he fought them outside the suit. Can you list one on one fights that you seem to be aware of in order to make that statement?

The suit varies, characters like Sensei have had no problem ripping through it despite not having any superhuman attributes. Jin Si tore through it like butter also. If you want to consider it equipment than that's fine, it still doesn't have the offensive or defensive capabilities as the shield though.

I can't think of any off the top of my head, maybe Vandal Savage although that was more by surprise than an straight up fight.