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#1 Posted by sa5m (2112 posts) - - Show Bio
Batman
 Catwoman
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
                                                                                                                  VS
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 Captain America
Black Widow
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
-No prep
-no morals
-fighting in empty building 
-who wins and why?
-please use logic and reasoning
#2 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio

Equipment?

#3 Posted by sa5m (2112 posts) - - Show Bio
@comicdude23: 
Standard =)
#4 Posted by comicdude23 (11399 posts) - - Show Bio
@sa5m said:
" @comicdude23:  Standard =) "

I'll take Team 1, with Equipment Batman will help them pull out a win. If it's h2h then Team 2 take it.
#5 Posted by bag_o_x_men (682 posts) - - Show Bio

I think team 2 can still pull this out.  Steve can hold off Batman's attacks with his shield and agility.  Once Batman's blown his inventory, its h2h, but Steve still has his shield.  And BW > than CW any day of the week. 

#6 Posted by entropy_aegis (14219 posts) - - Show Bio
@bag_o_x_men said:
"I think team 2 can still pull this out.  Steve can hold off Batman's attacks with his shield and agility.  Once Batman's blown his inventory, its h2h, but Steve still has his shield.  And BW > than CW any day of the week.  "

Sonics and gas might put down cap,and bruce currently has electric gauntlets so he might dominate h2h as well,but Cw cannot stand up to BW and that might lead to batmans downfall.
#7 Posted by bag_o_x_men (682 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis: 
Definitely possible.  I'm thinking with morals off, Batman may be a little off his game.  Cap is more used to not pulling punches and attacking for full effect, than Bruce IMO.   I'm really relying on Cap being able to block Batman's attacks with his shield, and for things he can't like gas, using his experience to get him out of it.  I think it would be a knock down drag out fight, that Steve just edges out.  But if Steve slips even a little early on Bruce has it.  The longer the fight goes, the more it will favor Steve, and I think he'll realize that, and try to take advantage of it.  And all he really needs to do, is hold out until BW beats Selina.
#8 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

i think cap and widow take this.
#9 Posted by Nefarious (18648 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Batman defeats Captain America. Catwoman defeats Black Widow.

#10 Posted by The Scarlet Witch (83 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 for the win. I think Captain American can take Batman out after a decent battle and Black Widow is more skilled than Catwoman in my opinion.

#11 Posted by nightcrawler1212 (532 posts) - - Show Bio

if there were prep team 1 but  since theres not team2 

#12 Posted by sa5m (2112 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nefarious: 
Why do you believe Catwoman defeats the Black Widow ? I'm just curious since everybody says otherwise I would like to hear you thoughts =)
#13 Posted by Nefarious (18648 posts) - - Show Bio
@sa5m: Well, starting with Batman and Captain America. Batman will most likely win. And for Black Widow, I think Catwoman will have difficulty but she bring Widow down.
#14 Posted by Captain_Justice95 (399 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Scarlet Witch said:
"Team 2 for the win. I think Captain American can take Batman out after a decent battle and Black Widow is more skilled than Catwoman in my opinion. "

true dat
#15 Posted by sa5m (2112 posts) - - Show Bio
@The Stegman:  Yes =)
#16 Posted by Zubinen (56 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say team 1 for sure since Batman defeated Captain America in the DC vs Marvel crossover.

#17 Posted by Manchine (3959 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman vs Captain America Cap would win in a this fight.  Unfortunately Catwoman doesn't take as long with Black Widow.  Captain America can't fight both Catwoman and Batman.
#18 Posted by intothetempest (288 posts) - - Show Bio

Team two. I don’t know why, but some people seem to be under the impression the Catwoman is more skilled than Black Widow. No.

#19 Posted by Assman (1825 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll take Cap & Widow, mainly cause I think Widow would make short work of Selina, and doublt tag Bats with Steve and end it.
#20 Posted by The Stegman (23031 posts) - - Show Bio
@sa5m: then i say team 2, although selina has dealt with guns before, she has never dealt with someone who can use them as well as widow, so catwoman goes down, the it's basically cap AND widow against Batman, im sorry to say this, but against the both of them he's going down
#21 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

Team 1. Batman defeats Captain America. Catwoman defeats Black Widow.

Exactly

#22 Posted by DesertHunter24 (109 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@Nefarious said:

Team 1. Batman defeats Captain America. Catwoman defeats Black Widow.

Exactly

Agree! It's clear!

#23 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

@DesertHunter24 said:

@Stronger said:

@Nefarious said:

Team 1. Batman defeats Captain America. Catwoman defeats Black Widow.

Exactly

Agree! It's clear!

What does Catwoman have over Black Widow?

#24 Posted by nickthedevil (11581 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm reading all these posts and honestly... how can you guys say Catwoman would beat the Blackwidow? thats gonna be a quick fight for the BW, and in terms of Captain America, it's already been decided between the two that Cap would take the fight because of his Super soldier serum. but it would be a grueling match between the two. but really, Cap just has to hold out until BW cleans up Catwoman. then the both of them take down Bats.

#25 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@HBKTimHBK said:

@DesertHunter24 said:

@Stronger said:

@Nefarious said:

Team 1. Batman defeats Captain America. Catwoman defeats Black Widow.

Exactly

Agree! It's clear!

What does Catwoman have over Black Widow?

Black Widow has not impressed me with her combat skills.I think Catwoman would win in a very tough fight.

#26 Posted by Nefarious (18648 posts) - - Show Bio

I think I meant to say...BW beats Catwoman in my original post.
#27 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio
Batman vs C. America
Catwoman vs Black Widow
The question is, can Black Widow defeat Catwoman that much quicker and more efficiently that it will easily allow team 2 to double team team 1?
#28 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1668 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: I think I'll go with you on this one.

#29 Posted by ComicVinE_CLOWN (13 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 with ease.

#30 Posted by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America and Black Widow wins. Both are physically superior than their counterparts, and well as being better strategists. Id say Black Widow takes out Catwoman rather easily then its BW and Cap teaming up on Bats.

#31 Posted by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@Nefarious said:

Team 1. Batman defeats Captain America. Catwoman defeats Black Widow.

Exactly

Can you be a little more elaborate on how Batman and especially Catwoman would win?

#32 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

#33 Posted by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

So because Batman has gadgets, that guarantees his victory? Cap has gone up against guys with better and more gadgets than Bats and won. Cap's brain acts as a computer (due to the Super Soldier Serum), giving him multiple scenarios in his head to ensure victory in the heat of battle. Cap and Bats are pretty even in fighting skills, but Cap's a better strategist and is physically superior to Bats. Black Widow also has her version of the Super Soldier Serum also, but to a lesser degree than Cap. BW is a better fighter and strategist than Catwoman. She also has MANY more years of combat and battle experience than Cat. I dont take anything away from Bats and Cat, but overall, Caps and BW have more going for them than the other 2.

#34 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26 said:

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

So because Batman has gadgets, that guarantees his victory? Cap has gone up against guys with better and more gadgets than Bats and won. Cap's brain acts as a computer (due to the Super Soldier Serum), giving him multiple scenarios in his head to ensure victory in the heat of battle.

Cap and Bats are pretty even in fighting skills, but Cap's a better strategist and is physically superior to Bats. Black Widow also has her version of the Super Soldier Serum also, but to a lesser degree than Cap. BW is a better fighter and strategist than Catwoman. She also has MANY more years of combat and battle experience than Cat. I dont take anything away from Bats and Cat, but overall, Caps and BW have more going for them than the other 2.

No it doesn't, you're making Captain America out to sound like he's the Midnighter, Cap has never had this ability.

Cap isn't on par with Batman in terms of fighting skills, nor is he a better strategist, the only thing you got right is the physically superior part.

#35 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26 said:

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

So because Batman has gadgets, that guarantees his victory? Cap has gone up against guys with better and more gadgets than Bats and won. Cap's brain acts as a computer (due to the Super Soldier Serum), giving him multiple scenarios in his head to ensure victory in the heat of battle.

Cap and Bats are pretty even in fighting skills, but Cap's a better strategist and is physically superior to Bats. Black Widow also has her version of the Super Soldier Serum also, but to a lesser degree than Cap. BW is a better fighter and strategist than Catwoman. She also has MANY more years of combat and battle experience than Cat. I dont take anything away from Bats and Cat, but overall, Caps and BW have more going for them than the other 2.

No it doesn't, you're making Captain America out to sound like he's the Midnighter, Cap has never had this ability.

Cap isn't on par with Batman in terms of fighting skills, nor is he a better strategist, the only thing you got right is the physically superior part.

Correct.Moreover Bats defeated Wonder Girl with gadgets..

#36 Edited by Siafon (275 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll take Cap and the Widow here. Widow would beat Catwoman, and they would team up on Batman. Plus Captain America would beat Batman in a one on one fight anyway, unless something unexpected happened.

#37 Edited by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26 said:

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

So because Batman has gadgets, that guarantees his victory? Cap has gone up against guys with better and more gadgets than Bats and won. Cap's brain acts as a computer (due to the Super Soldier Serum), giving him multiple scenarios in his head to ensure victory in the heat of battle.

Cap and Bats are pretty even in fighting skills, but Cap's a better strategist and is physically superior to Bats. Black Widow also has her version of the Super Soldier Serum also, but to a lesser degree than Cap. BW is a better fighter and strategist than Catwoman. She also has MANY more years of combat and battle experience than Cat. I dont take anything away from Bats and Cat, but overall, Caps and BW have more going for them than the other 2.

No it doesn't, you're making Captain America out to sound like he's the Midnighter, Cap has never had this ability.

Cap isn't on par with Batman in terms of fighting skills, nor is he a better strategist, the only thing you got right is the physically superior part.

Not in the exact nature that the Midnighter's does, but very similar. Read his powers and abilities stats on any website, official or unofficial, and you'll see. The SSS enhanced his mental process that enables him to do that.

How is Cap not on par with Batman in fighting skills or a better strategist? AND, IF Bats was a better strategist, why do people always through up prep-time with him?

#38 Posted by Siafon (275 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26:Be carful about using logic in these arguments. They'll accuse you of bias on Marvel's behalf. You can't be logical, and have your own opinion without DC fans saying you are biased. I've tried. And of course Cap would beat Batman in a fight, just for the reasons you stated. Ability they are close enough to even, but stamina, durability, strength, and speed it's all Cap. The test of skills would become a test of wills. Black Widow wouldn't have to intervine. Cap would probably tell her to stay out of it, because Batman is a honorable combatant. Catwoman is'nt even in the league with Black Widow. Maybe she could beat Black Cat, but Black Widow? Please, she is a trained russian spy. She is Russia's female Captain America. Without the Super Soldier serum of cousre. Now wait for it, it'll come. All the accusations of bias, I can hear them already.

#39 Edited by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Siafon said:

@MyronLee26:Be carful about using logic in these arguments. They'll accuse you of bias on Marvel's behalf. You can't be logical, and have your own opinion without DC fans saying you are biased. I've tried. And of course Cap would beat Batman in a fight, just for the reasons you stated. Ability they are close enough to even, but stamina, durability, strength, and speed it's all Cap. The test of skills would become a test of wills. Black Widow wouldn't have to intervine. Cap would probably tell her to stay out of it, because Batman is a honorable combatant. Catwoman is'nt even in the league with Black Widow. Maybe she could beat Black Cat, but Black Widow? Please, she is a trained russian spy. She is Russia's female Captain America. Without the Super Soldier serum of cousre. Now wait for it, it'll come. All the accusations of bias, I can hear them already.

I mean honestly, Im more of a Marvel Fan, but im not biased on them in battles. But DC fans and Batman fans especially put him on this pedestal that he can defeat ANYONE, which is not the case. Captain America is more on the lines of Deathstroke in terms physical attributes. But Bats and Cap are better fighters than DS IMO. DS relies more on his enhanced-human powers to take down his opponents than actually fighting skills.

#40 Posted by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

And BTW, Cap DOES NOT need BW's help to take Bats down in the slightest.

#41 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26 said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26 said:

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

So because Batman has gadgets, that guarantees his victory? Cap has gone up against guys with better and more gadgets than Bats and won. Cap's brain acts as a computer (due to the Super Soldier Serum), giving him multiple scenarios in his head to ensure victory in the heat of battle.

Cap and Bats are pretty even in fighting skills, but Cap's a better strategist and is physically superior to Bats. Black Widow also has her version of the Super Soldier Serum also, but to a lesser degree than Cap. BW is a better fighter and strategist than Catwoman. She also has MANY more years of combat and battle experience than Cat. I dont take anything away from Bats and Cat, but overall, Caps and BW have more going for them than the other 2.

No it doesn't, you're making Captain America out to sound like he's the Midnighter, Cap has never had this ability.

Cap isn't on par with Batman in terms of fighting skills, nor is he a better strategist, the only thing you got right is the physically superior part.

Not in the exact nature that the Midnighter's does, but very similar. Read his powers and abilities stats on any website, official or unofficial, and you'll see. The SSS enhanced his mental process that enables him to do that.

How is Cap not on par with Batman in fighting skills or a better strategist? AND, IF Bats was a better strategist, why do people always through up prep-time with him?

No it doesn't, show me a scan or cite an # where it specifically states that Captain America can think of winning scenarios in the heat of battle.

Because Cap hasn't done anything to put himself on Batman's level of martial arts. He hasn't beaten the same level of skilled opponents, and most of the time Cap wins against other human opponents because he has physical advantages over them and not because he's more skilled.

@MyronLee26 said:

@Siafon said:

@MyronLee26:Be carful about using logic in these arguments. They'll accuse you of bias on Marvel's behalf. You can't be logical, and have your own opinion without DC fans saying you are biased. I've tried. And of course Cap would beat Batman in a fight, just for the reasons you stated. Ability they are close enough to even, but stamina, durability, strength, and speed it's all Cap. The test of skills would become a test of wills. Black Widow wouldn't have to intervine. Cap would probably tell her to stay out of it, because Batman is a honorable combatant. Catwoman is'nt even in the league with Black Widow. Maybe she could beat Black Cat, but Black Widow? Please, she is a trained russian spy. She is Russia's female Captain America. Without the Super Soldier serum of cousre. Now wait for it, it'll come. All the accusations of bias, I can hear them already.

I mean honestly, Im more of a Marvel Fan, but im not biased on them in battles. But DC fans and Batman fans especially put him on this pedestal that he can defeat ANYONE, which is not the case. Captain America is more on the lines of Deathstroke in terms physical attributes. But Bats and Cap are better fighters than DS IMO. DS relies more on his enhanced-human powers to take down his opponents than actually fighting skills.

It states that he's adept, not a master like Batman is.

#42 Edited by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26 said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26 said:

@Stronger said:

@MyronLee26: Batman via gadgets and Catwoman I am not sure but Black Widow hasnt impressed me so far......

So because Batman has gadgets, that guarantees his victory? Cap has gone up against guys with better and more gadgets than Bats and won. Cap's brain acts as a computer (due to the Super Soldier Serum), giving him multiple scenarios in his head to ensure victory in the heat of battle.

Cap and Bats are pretty even in fighting skills, but Cap's a better strategist and is physically superior to Bats. Black Widow also has her version of the Super Soldier Serum also, but to a lesser degree than Cap. BW is a better fighter and strategist than Catwoman. She also has MANY more years of combat and battle experience than Cat. I dont take anything away from Bats and Cat, but overall, Caps and BW have more going for them than the other 2.

No it doesn't, you're making Captain America out to sound like he's the Midnighter, Cap has never had this ability.

Cap isn't on par with Batman in terms of fighting skills, nor is he a better strategist, the only thing you got right is the physically superior part.

Not in the exact nature that the Midnighter's does, but very similar. Read his powers and abilities stats on any website, official or unofficial, and you'll see. The SSS enhanced his mental process that enables him to do that.

How is Cap not on par with Batman in fighting skills or a better strategist? AND, IF Bats was a better strategist, why do people always through up prep-time with him?

No it doesn't, show me a scan or cite an # where it specifically states that Captain America can think of winning scenarios in the heat of battle.

Because Cap hasn't done anything to put himself on Batman's level of martial arts. He hasn't beaten the same level of skilled opponents, and most of the time Cap wins against other human opponents because he has physical advantages over them and not because he's more skilled.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=390466&pagenumber=2 <<<<

Are you serious? Maybe you should check out Captain America's respect thread. He's taken down Hulk level opponents using pure fighting skills, not by having prior knowledge of their weaknesses like Batman does 9/10 of the time.


It states that he's adept, not a master like Batman is.
32. to make oneself master of; become an adept in:

Master

verb (used with object)

32. to make oneself master of; become an adept in: to master a language.

That was taken from Dictionary.com

#43 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26:He takes down Hulk level opponents because Hulk and most grounded bricks have absolutely no fighting skill. Bats has taken down a higher caliber of SKILLED opponents than Cap has. On of top that Bats has taken down Solomon Grundy with pressure points, where Cap has taken down Hulk WITH his shield.

a·dept/əˈdept/

Adjective:
Very skilled or proficient at something.
Noun:
A person who is skilled or proficient at something.
Synonyms:
adjective. skilled - skillful - skilful - proficient - expert - deft
noun. expert - connoisseur - judge - master - proficient

Adept = very skilled or proficient, not a master. Straight off of google which takes it from answers.com Dictionary.com and other sites.

#44 Edited by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:He takes down Hulk level opponents because Hulk and most grounded bricks have absolutely no fighting skill. Bats has taken down a higher caliber of SKILLED opponents than Cap has. On of top that Bats has taken down Solomon Grundy with pressure points, where Cap has taken down Hulk WITH his shield.

a·dept/əˈdept/

Adjective:
Very skilled or proficient at something.
Noun:
A person who is skilled or proficient at something.
Synonyms:
adjective. skilled - skillful - skilful - proficient - expert - deft
noun. expert - connoisseur - judge - master - proficient

Adept = very skilled or proficient, not a master. Straight off of google which takes it from answers.com Dictionary.com and other sites.

Namor, Spider-Man, Lady DeathStrike, Iron Fist, Wolverine, Black Panther, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Cable, Thor, Hulk, Klaw, Rhino, took on Mr. Hyde and Scorpion at the same time, Absorbing Man, Sunfire, the list goes on and on, and all of these is without prep-time.....

yeah, everyone except Deathstroke who kicks his ass every single time theyve fought. In which the the only time he was able to take him down was when he had help from Robin and Nightwing. And Deathstroke is not even as skilled in martial arts as Batman is, DS relies moreso on his enhanced abilities to secure the win. Captain America once took down several Super Soldier Serum-enhanced opponents and this is when he lost the enhancement of the SSS in his body.

and even with prep, Bats still wasnt able to beat Bronze Tiger in their rematch.

#45 Posted by Erik (31602 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2.

#46 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger: Black Widow has had much more formal training then Catwoman has had, and so up close Catwoman is outmatched. And from a distance Black Widow is great with a gun.

#47 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26: Batman has better equipment

#48 Posted by MyronLee26 (1092 posts) - - Show Bio

@Stronger: so youre saying that Batman wins because he has "better gadgets"?

#49 Edited by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

@MyronLee26 said:

@Hohenheim_of_light said:

@MyronLee26:He takes down Hulk level opponents because Hulk and most grounded bricks have absolutely no fighting skill. Bats has taken down a higher caliber of SKILLED opponents than Cap has. On of top that Bats has taken down Solomon Grundy with pressure points, where Cap has taken down Hulk WITH his shield.

a·dept/əˈdept/

Adjective:
Very skilled or proficient at something.
Noun:
A person who is skilled or proficient at something.
Synonyms:
adjective. skilled - skillful - skilful - proficient - expert - deft
noun. expert - connoisseur - judge - master - proficient

Adept = very skilled or proficient, not a master. Straight off of google which takes it from answers.com Dictionary.com and other sites.

Namor, Spider-Man, Lady DeathStrike, Iron Fist, Wolverine, Black Panther, Daredevil, Taskmaster, Cable, Thor, Hulk, Klaw, Rhino, took on Mr. Hyde and Scorpion at the same time, Absorbing Man, Sunfire, the list goes on and on, and all of these is without prep-time.....

yeah, everyone except Deathstroke who kicks his ass every single time theyve fought. In which the the only time he was able to take him down was when he had help from Robin and Nightwing. And Deathstroke is not even as skilled in martial arts as Batman is, DS relies moreso on his enhanced abilities to secure the win. Captain America once took down several Super Soldier Serum-enhanced opponents and this is when he lost the enhancement of the SSS in his body.

and even with prep, Bats still wasnt able to beat Bronze Tiger in their rematch.

Most of those characters have virtually no fighting skill, except for Iron Fist, Wolverine, Daredevil, Taskmaster, an Deathstrike.

He never beat Wolverine, he only KO'd him in Enemy of the State because Wolverine was exhausted, he never beat Iron Fist, he's beaten Daredevil but each time he's won Daredevil's fighting skills were hampered. He's never beaten Taskmaster or Black Panther except in Contest of Champions which wasn't canon, in fact he's lost to Black Panther's grandfather. So only one he legitly beat on your list that's actually skilled is Deathstrike and possibly Cable.

Batman's beaten Deathstroke before, by himself, if you want to count losses, Cap has lost to Daredevil with a single judo throw, he's lost to Taskmaster several times.

Batman's beaten Bane, Ra's al Ghul, Deathstroke, Prometheus, David Cain, Wrath, Zeiss, Nightwing, Dan Kingdom, King Snake, Tsunetomo,

Notice the difference between my list and you're list is that everyone on my list is a credible SKILLED fighter that Batman has actually BEATEN with no circumstances, where Cap has only beaten 2 skilled opponents on your list without any strings attached.

Hell if you want to name higher tier opponents Bat's has taken out Young Justice and the Teen Titans in only a few panels including Kid Flash and Donna Troy, he's subdued Wonder Woman and Solomon Grundy with nerve strikes, hell asl ong as you're going to mention Thor, I'm going to mention Captain Marvel even though both cases are extreme PIS, I'll also mention Major Force, and Cheetah, a light speeder who's a Wonder Woman rogue. And this is all without any prep btw.

Bronze Tiger is a better martial artist than Captain America is so that isn't helping you're argument, as long as were pointing out blunders, Captain America got beat down and nearly died against the Kingpin until Redwing saved him.

#50 Posted by Saren (25273 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman's also beaten Deathstroke by himself in the Green Arrow/Black Canary Wedding Special, but that was a silly, stupid issue and Slade eventually escaped at any rate.

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