Batman Battle of the Month VOTING: Deadshot vs. Gambit

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k4tzm4n

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k4tzm4n  Moderator

Poll Batman Battle of the Month VOTING: Deadshot vs. Gambit (283 votes)

Deadshot 43%
Gambit 51%
Too close to call 7%

Batman's gone through some pretty brutal and relentless fights in this segment. So, this month, we're giving the dude a well-deserved break. Don't worry, though, because while Batman is enjoying some R&R, one of his allies or enemies will step up to the plate and endure the same kind of challenge we put him through. This month, we're testing one of Batman's most accurate villains: Flowyd Lawton aka Deadshot. The marksman is going up against an incredibly agile and explosive X-Man: Remy LeBeau aka Gambit. Will Floyd's barrage of bullets and deadly aim lead him to victory? Or will Gambit's swift reflexes and explosive cards allow him to defeat the gunman? Well, the winner is going to be determined by you. Yes, you. After you've read all of the rules, choose a winner!

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character (aka morals apply for both).
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep/prior knowledge for either).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 60 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc.
  • Both characters have their standard gear. For Deadshot, he has his New 52 gear, but pre-52 feats are applicable for him as well. For Gambit, this means he has his bo staff and and two decks of cards.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • A Viner Argument for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.
"Just kidding. This month, I'm taking a nap."

Feel free to make future "Batman: Battle of the Month" suggestions in the comments below or via Twitter!

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Gracetrack

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Normally I would say Deadshot because it is really hard to dodge bullets, but as there is an abundance of cover, it would seem that the advantage goes to Gambit. The problem for Deadshot in this case would be line of sight. In order to hit Gambit he would need to see him straight on for a shot and with cover that is not going to happen. Gambit on the other hand can throw objects over obstacles, thus being able to at the very least to force Deadshot back (which comprises a win by the rules.) Essentially this comes down to a question of guns versus grenades and Gambit is going to win in that scenario more often than not. It might be equalized a bit if Deadshot had explosives in his disposal. If Gambit found a way to get to hand-to-hand combat distance, this would be over quickly.

Some good points here.

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Experio

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Gambit

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Shallbecomeabattoo

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Deadshot, by a mile. Also because I dislike Gambit with a hate I can otherwise only muster for Reed and the Hulk, but mosty because Deadshot is juts the more skilled fighter, marksman and tactician. On no level has Gambit any game here.

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micah007123

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Not sure who to vote for yet. But Deadshot's superior tactical mind, and surgical accuracy are making me lean slightly in his favor.

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SevanGrim

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#55  Edited By SevanGrim

Weirdly enough for me, I'm going to place Gambit in the winners circle here. I'm a big Secret Six fan, and Deadshot is just super awesome... but i think in this fight Gambit has the upper hand.

The way i see it, Gambit is incredibly used to marksmen taking shots at him, but Deadshot has no idea what Gambit's power set/skill level is. By the time Deadshot realizes he's dealing with a heightened human, Gambit would probably already have closed the gap, or reached a tactical position that would all but give him the fight. Keep in mind Gambit literally has more of the skills Batman uses to take down Deadshot than Batman. He has the ability to charge his own body to rapidly heal, and has above human strength/speed/agility. He knows how to use the shadows to sneak around, and he knows how to move around urban environments. He is just as accurate with his projectiles as batman, and Gambit's explode afterwards. It just seems to me if Deadshot doesn't know any of this right off the bat, he is at a huge disadvantage.

The only good argument i really see for Deadshot is that he might just headshot Gambit first thing because he's having a bad day. But Gambit has dealt with that before as well.

Gambit wins 7 out of 10 times i think. Now if this was Catman...

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micah007123

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#56  Edited By micah007123

Gambit outranks Deadshot in several physical categories, but ultimately what I think it will come down to is if Deadshot can kill or incapacitate Gambit at a range. Gambit has been shown casually dodging and deflecting bullets from fodder, however how well he does avoiding Deadshot will depend on his showings again marksmen equivalent to Deadshot. Such as Bullseye, or Domino. But Deadshot has fired upon and nailed super-human opponents and even Flash equivalent speedsters. Therefore its well within his ability to tag Gambit.

Now to break down the physicals:

Strength

Gambit has low level super-human strength , based on that his strength slightly outranks Deadshot. Deadshot has peak strength for a human his age in prime physical condition. If the fight moves up close I don't think he will toss Deadshot into the distance, so I can see Floyd holding his own with his armor and gear, even if Remy overpowers him at some point.

Speed

I give a slight advantage to Gambit in this category. Once again mainly because of his super-human physicals, however Deadshot has fought and beaten opponents with super-speed, and Gambits physicals aren't to the level were he can cause Deadshot major trouble. So therefore I don't see it impacting the battle in any significant way.

Agility

Gambit takes this category. He is one of the most agile characters in the Marvel Universe. Deadshot has shown incredible flexibility and agility in a variety of combat situations all while keeping his lethal accuracy, however Gambits display of agility feats give him the edge in this category.

Fighting Ability

I think this one is a tie. Their both skilled in h2h combat, and I still might give Gambit the edge here, however Gambit is no kung-fu master and neither is Deadshot. But given his exceptional fighting ability and tactical mind in dangerous suicidal combat situations, against opponents who vastly outrank him. I think this will help him overcome Gambit in h2h especially when you count in how he incorporates his guns into his h2h tactics and his accuracy at close range at well.

X-Factors

Deadshot's major problem in this fight is Gambits explosive throwing cards. Given Deadshots showings against dodging explosives and recovering from them I believe he should be able to survive an onslaught and dish out his own damage. The size of Gambit's basic explosions shouldn't outright kill or incapacitate Deadshot, so I can see him dodging a majority or shooting them out of the air. And if he does get hit it won't be an insta-kill.

I'm voting for Deadshot, because at a range he should be able to kill Remy, even if he starts deflecting, Floyd has an incredible fast draw and fire, so at some point if the fight stays at a distance he will find an opening, and when that happens it will be over.

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AllStarSuperman

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I voted Deadshot.

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micah007123

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#58  Edited By micah007123

@grim said:

Weirdly enough for me, I'm going to place Gambit in the winners circle here. I'm a big Secret Six fan, and Deadshot is just super awesome... but i think in this fight Gambit has the upper hand.

The way i see it, Gambit is incredibly used to marksmen taking shots at him, but Deadshot has no idea what Gambit's power set/skill level is. By the time Deadshot realizes he's dealing with a heightened human, Gambit would probably already have closed the gap, or reached a tactical position that would all but give him the fight. Keep in mind Gambit literally has more of the skills Batman uses to take down Deadshot than Batman. He has the ability to charge his own body to rapidly heal, and has above human strength/speed/agility.He knows how to use the shadows to sneak around, and he knows how to move around urban environments. He is just as accurate with his projectiles as batman, and Gambit's explode afterwards. It just seems to me if Deadshot doesn't know any of this right off the bat, he is at a huge disadvantage.

The only good argument i really see for Deadshot is that he might just headshot Gambit first thing because he's having a bad day. But Gambit has dealt with that before as well.

Gambit wins 7 out of 10 times i think. Now if this was Catman...

Most of the time Gambit doesn't fight with stealth in mind, and it's out of his character to run away from a fight to get to a better vantage point. Also yes he has super-human physicals, but their not to the point were he could cause Deadshot major trouble.

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mickey-mouse

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Could go either way IMO

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@k4tzm4n

You finally got something with my man.

I believe there are distinct advantages for Gambit here that allow him to win this

Gambit

Speed- Gambit has the clear advantage here being of superhuman speed and agility Gambit has kept up with Captain America and daredevil. Gambit has also kept up and ought Dakon putting him in the Wolverine speed area, he may be slightly slower but in that area. hes also a very casual bullet dodger and has even dodged Iron Mans repulsar (if thats spelled right) beams

Energy Projection- I think we all know Gambit has this here. His ability to charge anything even organics is not well known and i blame AvX for that fallacy. He has charged many organics before. His Kinetic Charging allows him to throw his cards farther than most can and in a city

Stealth- not many people consider this to be a skill of Gambits but it is. He has broken into unbreakable vaults and has even slipped by Wolverine numerous times, I do believe that in this environment Gambit has the skills to beat deadshot

H2H- Gambit has the clear advantage here as with his staff he was able to stalemate daredevil and keep up with Captain America (still mad he lost that fight)

I think that with his speed and stealth he'll be able to up close and personal and take this fight where he has the advantage. especially in a city at night where there is plenty of cover and someone with his agility will have no trouble navigating it.

It's short and sweet but it gets to the point as to why Gambit wins. If you want some scans of Gambit just ask.

This is great, and I agree.

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senglord

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#61  Edited By senglord

I personally voted Gambit because this is a random. Floyd does not kill people that are

1. Not trying to kill him.

And.

2. He did not intend to kill before engaging.

Gambit is not going to open with lethal force either, due to this being a random encounter. But his cards will have serious problems dealing with Deadshot at range. Idk how fast are my can throw those cards, but Deadshot will be able to shoot all of them down at safe distance. Likewise, Gambit has enough superhuman agility*(1) to dodge most of Deadshot's bullets*(2). The fight will only be settled up close and personal. Edge, Remy.

If Gambit goes for stealth, the cybernetic eye can track his heat and movement(?), making stealth a net liability.

It looks like my vote would go to Deadshot, but we need to include morals. Deadshot is smart enough to determine that Gambit is not going for the kill even though he is being shot at. This could trigger his known "hero pulling" shots. This is the biggest reason for Gambit to win this. As the fight goes on, Floyd will be less and less inclined to kill someone who he has not been contracted to kill who is clearly not out to kill him. This has always thrown Deadshot off of his game. And it will defeat him here.

(1) Gambit's superhuman stats are similar to Bishop and Shaw. He has to store kinetic energy for him to have those stats. The more he blows things up, heals, accelerates at superhuman speed, uses superhuman strength, etc. it is converting his stored potential energy into expended kinetic energy. This should actually slow him down from peak speed when he is charging himself by moving around. And he will need to move around asp superhuman speed a LOT to not get clipped by Deadshot.

(2) Floyd is a master of timing his shots to tag legit bullet dodgers and low level speedsters. If Floyd wants to hit Gambit, it would more often be a case of when and not if. The only real way to prevent that is to get up close and end the fight with the staff. Remy can also obscure Floyd's vision with using his cards on the ground or taking out the lights. Deadshot may not count on that, though he is the better tactician and strategist.

This is my shortest essay for argument of the week. Some pointers on making my points sharper and more compelling are welcome.

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oOSupermanThatHoeOo

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Which version of Gambit?

I'm going with Deadshot here for most likely win

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GraniteSoldier

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I think Deadshot has it in him to take this one personally. He's shown the ability to ricochet bullets, which negates cover for Remy, and Floyd has tagged people who regularly dodge bullets with his shots. It's one thing to dodge bullets, it's another to do it against someone like Deadshot.

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owie

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#64 owie  Moderator

A serious question here: who has Deadshot actually shot and/or defeated? Real characters, that is, not fodder.

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Saren

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#65  Edited By Saren

@owie said:

A serious question here: who has Deadshot actually shot and/or defeated? Real characters, that is, not fodder.

Deathstroke comes to mind.

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#66 owie  Moderator
@saren said:

@owie said:

A serious question here: who has Deadshot actually shot and/or defeated? Real characters, that is, not fodder.

Deathstroke comes to mind.

Well that's not so shabby then.

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micah007123

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@owie said:
@saren said:

@owie said:

A serious question here: who has Deadshot actually shot and/or defeated? Real characters, that is, not fodder.

Deathstroke comes to mind.

Well that's not so shabby then.

just for laughs, he recently blew Copperheads face off LOL.

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lesterlawton

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After seeing how Gambit did against Bullseye, I'm definitely picking Deadshot for this one.

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kidman560

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#69  Edited By kidman560

After seeing how Gambit did against Bullseye, I'm definitely picking Deadshot for this one.

that was a long time ago and going off a poor fight like that is not a good idea especially since Gambit stalemated Daredevil later in the same series. of course Daredevil regularly gets punked by Bullseye no wait i got that mixed up. Gambit has also been able to dodge more bullets than even Deadshot can fire at one time. but i guess if you are only going off of one fight the Bullseye vs Gambit fight would be the one to choose if you didnt want Gambit to win

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TheManInTheShoe

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Gambit

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Shawnbaby

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#71  Edited By Shawnbaby

After seeing how Gambit did against Bullseye, I'm definitely picking Deadshot for this one.

That's one really low showing for Gambit...not something you should base an argument on. Someone could just as easily post an argument for Gambit based off of this showing

No Caption Provided

But neither one of them really reflects gambit at his consistent best.

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ComicStooge

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Floyd's got this. His accuracy and far looser morals can overcome Remy's damage output and agility.

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D00MSMITH

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I see deadshot taking this.

Gambit has his advantages in melee, energy projection and speed.

That being said, he is outmatched by Floyd. Perhaps Deadshot isn't as agile as Bullseye, but his aim and marksmanship is definitely on par with the latter. Besides, just see his arsenal and firepower which he tends not to waste. Deadshot will quickly go offensive, trying his level best to make each bullet count. Thus gambit can't use his advantages properly to engage Floyd.

All gambit can do is dodge (which sucks because he is being shot at by deadshot). He will last for a minute or two. He does have a slim chance if deadshot runs out of bullets (unlikely). Deadshot 8 or 9/10

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micah007123

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@lesterlawton said:

After seeing how Gambit did against Bullseye, I'm definitely picking Deadshot for this one.

that was a long time ago and going off a poor fight like that is not a good idea especially since Gambit stalemated Daredevil later in the same series. of course Daredevil regularly gets punked by Bullseye no wait i got that mixed up. Gambit has also been able to dodge more bullets than even Deadshot can fire at one time. but i guess if you are only going off of one fight the Bullseye vs Gambit fight would be the one to choose if you didnt want Gambit to win

Okay so say he has dodged more bullets than Deadshot can fire. Have they been fired from marksmen who are in Deadshots caliber or just fodder? Because I lean towards the later.

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Wolverine008

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Hey, @thetruebarryallen, I'm pretty sure you'll want to put your input in here since you love Deadshot so much.

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Darkheart223

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ehhhhh my moneys on gambit. I feel considering the fact he can use his powers on pretty much anything helps him a hell of alot.

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Veshark

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Has anyone actually seen Deadshot go down and stay down? Cause he seems to recover from mortal wounds on a daily basis. LOL

There was one instance in Rucka's Checkmate run. Deadshot tried to execute Jessica Midnight, but she used her magic to phase through the bullet. In that moment of surprise, Deadshot got sucker-blasted by Fire. A final slam from Midnight knocked him out.

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DEGRAAF

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At first glance i was thinking Deadshot had this fight in the bag. He has superior aim, more firepower, and is more ruthless. after reading deeper into their pages and backgrounds i would have to say Gambit would win 6 out of 10 times. While Deadshot is more ruthless (willing to kill innocents around him to get the upper hand) i believe Remy is the type that goes by the motto "sacrifice the few to save the many" With that the loss of innocent people would drive Remy to fight harder. Between his determination, no joking attitude, and his abilities (mutant and taught alike) i think he has the upper hand. Deadshot is like alot of predators, he likes to stalk his prey and maybe play with them when he thinks it is a no lose situation. I think without full knowledge of his opponent he will underestimate him. I think Deadshot will be both surprised as well as laugh off the first playing card explosion. The following cards he would likely shoot out of the air before they can reach him. Once Gambit's cards are gone, Gambit would likely move on to his bow staff and be on more of the defensive. Deadshot would still have plenty of ammo but Remy has been shown to block bullets with his staff before as well as be able to throw things from his environment at Deadshot to blow up. I think Once that happens Deadshot would get more serious now seeing that Gambit can charge just about anything. I htink it would ultimately come down to close combat with Gambit trying H2H while Deadshot is still firing with his wrist gauntlets. I think Remy would win by charging Deadshots guns or armor and blowing him up.

It makes sense that it would be close average in fights since trying to fight someone with that much fire power would leave Deadshots opponent swiss cheese. The fight average would be much more one sided if Remy still has the ability to becoming Death of the Four horsemen

Deadshots Advantages

Superior Aim (slightly)

Deadly Training (military, League of Shadows, Suicide Squad)

Body armor

lots of firepower

Gambits Advantages

Unlimited firepower

more explosive firepower

slight healing factor (if his page is to be believed)

Possibility of becoming Death of the Four Horsemen

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godzilla44

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I went with too close to call because it really is

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Sovereign91001

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I'm going with Deadshot in a very close fight.

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viin

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Deadshot...Gambit might be able to throw things but Deadshot knows how to not only shoot but bounce bullets...and Gambit is a douche x-men origins explained that.

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k4tzm4n

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#82 k4tzm4n  Moderator

@viin said:

Deadshot...Gambit might be able to throw things but Deadshot knows how to not only shoot but bounce bullets...and Gambit is a douche x-men origins explained that.

disappointed animated GIF

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Wolverine008

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@k4tzm4n:

No Caption Provided

It's okay... I still like Gambit...

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dondave

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The Huxtables

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Overlander

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I can't stand Gambit...and that is how I know he's a good character.

Still, I hope Deadshot puts one between his fictional Cajun eyes.

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estrato

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Even though I haven´t read much of Deadshot (actually, most I read it in the previous comments)...

I know enough of Gambit to give him my vote and trust in this match.

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lesterlawton

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If Deadshot can tag Batman and get the drop on Boomerang's speedster son, he isn't going to have too much trouble putting a few in Gambit.

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Ancient_0f_Days

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Oh wow, this thread got hilarious so fast........Bill Cosby makes everything better

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Erik

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Gambit.

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dondave

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@ancient_0f_days

Oh wow, this thread got hilarious so fast........Bill Cosby makes everything better

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Artyom

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deactivated-097092725

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@viin said:

Deadshot...Gambit might be able to throw things but Deadshot knows how to not only shoot but bounce bullets...and Gambit is a douche x-men origins explained that.

This is too funny.

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senglord

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The advantages for Deadshot are

    1. gear,
    2. accuracy,
    3. killer instinct when his life is on the line.

The advantages for Remy are

    1. Physical stats,
    2. speed,
    3. damage output over time

Deadshot does not enter a fight planning to hit an opponent with superhuman speed and reflexes. his first shots will miss due to that.

Gambit likes to open with his cards to Ko an opponent. Floyd will shoot them out in the air. Gambit will try to go for cover, which is well within character. Deadshot will try to put safe distance between himself and Gambit's exploding powerset; while tracking his opponent with his cybernetic eye. If Deadshot is out for a kill, he will use his heavy weapons on Gambit when he gets distance. these tactics have rarely ever worked on Remy due to his long experience in much heavier firefights without injury.

In this scenario, with Gambit able to store energy from his constant movement behind cover to get a good position on Deadshot will keep him decently charged to keep throwing charged objects that Floyd would need to take out. In the long run, Gambit would win the long game when Deadshot has to get creative with his remaining offensive options. or he could just shoot out some gas pipes with his high cal rounds and blow up half a city block with Gambit in it. Floyd would survive a blast like that, while Remy would be toast. Arena destruction is grossly OOC for Deadshot, so his options will be limited to luring Gambit into a kill shot or slug it out up close and personal. NEoither option would work in the majority of cases. Gambit 5.5/10

Gambit wins after a very long fight. as long as Floyd has a gun and his enhanced eye, he will be in the fight. when he runs out of bullets, he will lose.

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Frisky4

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Gambit has taken bullet fire before, but Deadshot isn't using regular bullets. However, Gambit is very sneaky, and if Deadshot finds himself at the wrong end of a gun, it's over.