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Posted by k4tzm4n (38690 posts) 3 months, 23 days ago

Poll: Batman Battle of the Month VOTING: Deadshot vs. Gambit (281 votes)

Deadshot 43%
Gambit 51%
Too close to call 7%

Batman's gone through some pretty brutal and relentless fights in this segment. So, this month, we're giving the dude a well-deserved break. Don't worry, though, because while Batman is enjoying some R&R, one of his allies or enemies will step up to the plate and endure the same kind of challenge we put him through. This month, we're testing one of Batman's most accurate villains: Flowyd Lawton aka Deadshot. The marksman is going up against an incredibly agile and explosive X-Man: Remy LeBeau aka Gambit. Will Floyd's barrage of bullets and deadly aim lead him to victory? Or will Gambit's swift reflexes and explosive cards allow him to defeat the gunman? Well, the winner is going to be determined by you. Yes, you. After you've read all of the rules, choose a winner!

Match Rules

  • Combatants are in character (aka morals apply for both).
  • This is a random encounter (aka no prep/prior knowledge for either).
  • They're fighting in a generic downtown city setting. It's unpopulated, at night and all standard city lights remain on. Assume they start roughly 60 feet apart and visible. There's a fair amount of cover between them (parked vehicles, bus stops and such). The entire area is on limits. This means alleys, rooftops, building interiors, etc.
  • Both characters have their standard gear. For Deadshot, he has his New 52 gear, but pre-52 feats are applicable for him as well. For Gambit, this means he has his bo staff and and two decks of cards.
  • Incapacitation, knockout or death all count as elimination. Making a tactical retreat counts as a loss, too.
  • Hey, you know what would be really cool? Treating everyone else in the debate with respect. If you think someone's saying something that just isn't true, go ahead and stick to the facts to point out why. There's no need at all to drop insults just because you disagree with someone. Seriously, this is just talking about a fictional fight, there's no need for immaturity and mudslinging.
  • If you think the poll isn't going how it should, making an informative post about why a character is being underestimated and spreading the word is far more useful than complaining. Just saying.
  • One more thing: you don't need to write an essay to be selected as the Viner Argument of the Week. Sometimes concise posts can be way more effective than a flood of paragraphs.

Viners, you have the week to research, debate and vote! This means there's no reason to vote right away if you don't have all of the info you need to make an educated decision. Check the homepage Friday for an updated article with the following:

  • Thoughts from the staff.
  • A Viner Argument for both characters (can't include scans and must be in the poll thread).
  • If we're lucky, blurbs from industry talent.
"Just kidding. This month, I'm taking a nap."

Feel free to make future "Batman: Battle of the Month" suggestions in the comments below or via Twitter!

#1 Posted by Saren (25556 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot.

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#2 Posted by Shamo (509 posts) - - Show Bio

You should make a flash vs silver surfer for the next one

#3 Edited by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

Incredible match up right here.

On a first glance, I'm leaning towards Gambit for a slight majority when it's all said and done. He's working with the avoidance capabilities to avoid Deadshot for a decent amount of time while he's also trying to set up his offense. He's often rated as being enhanced or straight up superhuman in most official handbooks in regards to his agility, and the aforementioned agility is great enough that he's been able to more or less stalemate Daredevil on a rooftop battle through his combination of agility and skill with Savate. That right there is enough to show that Remy is one of Marvel street level's premier avoidance guys .The guy has caught mini grenade after they have been fired, he's blocked machine gun fire with his bo staff, and dodged rubber bullets with no warning. Simply, Remy is fast. Granted, one could make the argument that Pre 52 Deadshot has tagged and killed foes faster than Remy like speedsters, I wouldn't say those speedsters were working with the avoidance skill that Gambit has at his disposal, and they didn't have the offensive skill to throw Floyd off. That offensive output lies in Remy's cards and his marksmanship. He's able to charge the cards hard enough to be more or less grenade level bombs, and while Deadshot has tanked bullets with his armor, getting hit with one of them would at least stun him. Remy is also working with the marksmanship t give Floyd problems. No, he isn't on Deadshot's level, but he's been able to throw his cards down Sabretooth's throat, and even intercepted Spider-Man's webbing(Which has caught bullets with its speed) using well timed throwing of his cards. Gambit is resourceful with his kinetic energy charging to boot. Back during Fabian Nicieza's Gambit run, Remy charged a piece of gum in his mouth, and used it as a weapon, and he's charged things with his eyes, and other objects in the environment as well. The cards are the main offensive weapon, but he's not limited to them, and that is something that will probably surprise Deadshot. I think the big questions lies in that can Deadshot effectively keep tabs on this guy with great avoidance while also avoiding his damage output that he knows how to use? I don't think Floyd can do so for a majority.

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#4 Posted by laflux (14964 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by SUNMAN (7181 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even like Gambit but he clearly wins this

#6 Posted by TheDemoGoblin (660 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm with Gambit on this one. Here is why. Simply put, Gambit's powers of Molecular Accelerationalone let's him win here. If this weren't a random encounter, I'd go with Dead shot, but his agility and staff would allow him to block off and hide from all Dead Shot's bullets, thus charging up cards and chucking them at Dead Shot, blowing up his leg, not enough to kill him but enough to take him down. If Dead Shot would try to hide, The Gambit could simply lure Dead Shot out with an explosive weapon to his cover, and watch him jump out and take him down with his staff.

I don't think there's much challenge here, especially considering that The Gambit could release a Hypnotic Charge or use his corruption power and take down Dead Shot.

Hope I get best argument!

#7 Posted by MonsterStomp (16671 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to drop my favouritism and give it to Gambit. However, this could go either way.

#8 Posted by ColaNicole (576 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't think Deadshot would be in the same league as someone like Gambit. Different styles makes different fights I guess.

#9 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to drop my favouritism and give it to Gambit. However, this could go either way.

NO!

LET THE FANBOYISM GUIDE YOU!

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#10 Posted by RisingBean (3804 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: If you're speaking the round Gambit caught in the Acolyte fight, that's less an RPG and more a 40mm grenade not unlike that of a sort fired from the M-203 under barrel grenade launcher.

@shamo said:

You should make a flash vs silver surfer for the next one

It's gotta involve Gotham on some level, guy. :)

As for me, I'm gonna roll with Deadshot for "reasons."

#11 Posted by MonsterStomp (16671 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: I'm going to do a massive misleading post for Gambit having the win. Using feats that probably don't exist :)

#12 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Ah, thanks for the confirmation military man :)

@wolverine08: I'm going to do a massive misleading post for Gambit having the win. Using feats that probably don't exist :)

Yes, bring out of context scans as well!

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#13 Posted by Aeon-Rising (458 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit.

#14 Edited by LCazT1996 (522 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoa...it's a perfect tie right now...

#15 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

This match is a bit closer than I thought now that I ran through some things. Haven't voted yet actually, but I might go with too close to call.

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#16 Edited by MonsterStomp (16671 posts) - - Show Bio

Nina Dobrev, is the hottest.

#17 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by MonsterStomp (16671 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Edited by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Brah. Are you getting your notifications?

Yup. I've been mentioning myself for a few days now. Ah, these site updates.

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#20 Posted by MonsterStomp (16671 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: My notifications aren't working. By tomorrow I'll get like 100+ of them.

#21 Posted by RisingBean (3804 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Anytime, guy.

Also what are you doing in a thread that has nothing to do with Wolverine? No healing factors, claws or yellow spandex to be found here. :P

#22 Edited by Spellca (102 posts) - - Show Bio

I am going to need time to consider this but it really does seem that this will come down to how Gambit has dealt with some of the big-name sharpshooters in the Marvel Universe (e.g. Domino, Bullseye).

It would also be key to see what kind of range Gambit has been able to produce with his abilities.

To just make an earlier estimate, Deadshot seems to have range and skill here. But, I provide what I think may be relevant but I am unsure if it counts as pre-New 52 since I am pretty sure it is out of continuity but regardless there is no reason this should work.

I'll put the image below but I'll quote it since I needed to take the photo and the quality may not translate well.

Batman to Deadshot: "Bite-activated locking mechanism. Interesting. Secondary armor beneath the kevlar faceplate. Clever. The blood liner is a stroke of genius, but not nearly as innovative as the insulated costume that masks pulmonary functions and breathing. All designed so you can play possum if you're shot" - Batman: Cacophony, Kevin Smith

I'll leave this here and follow along before I vote but I will say I am leaning Deadshot on this one.

#23 Edited by Cloudguy (212 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit will win this.

#24 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Anytime, guy.

Also what are you doing in a thread that has nothing to do with Wolverine? No healing factors, claws or yellow spandex to be found here. :P

I'm feeling extra sexy and charming today(As if I wasn't already budding with those qualities), so I decided to try my stuff out here :)

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#25 Edited by Saren (25556 posts) - - Show Bio

Incredible match up right here.

On a first glance, I'm leaning towards Gambit for a slight majority when it's all said and done. He's working with the avoidance capabilities to avoid Deadshot for a decent amount of time while he's also trying to set up his offense. He's often rated as being enhanced or straight up superhuman in most official handbooks in regards to his agility, and the aforementioned agility is great enough that he's been able to more or less stalemate Daredevil on a rooftop battle through his combination of agility and skill with Savate. That right there is enough to show that Remy is one of Marvel street level's premier avoidance guys The guy has caught mini RPG's after they have been fired, he's blocked machine gun fire with his bo staff, and dodged rubber bullets with no warning. Simply, Remy is fast. Granted, one could make the argument that Pre 52 Deadshot has tagged and killed foes faster than Remy like speedsters, I wouldn't say those speedsters were working with the avoidance skill that Gambit has at his disposal, and they didn't have the offensive skill to throw Floyd off. That offensive output lies in Remy's cards and his marksmanship. He's able to charge the cards hard enough to be more or less grenade level bombs, and while Deadshot has tanked bullets with his armor, getting hit with one of them would at least stun him. Remy is also working with the marksmanship t give Floyd problems. No, he isn't on Deadshot's level, but he's been able to throw his cards down Sabretooth's throat, and even intercepted Spider-Man's webbing(Which has caught bullets with its speed) using well timed throwing of his cards. Gambit is resourceful with his kinetic energy charging to boot. Back during Fabian Nicieza's Gambit run, Remy charged a piece of gum and used it as a weapon, and he's charged things with his eyes, and other objects in the environment as well. The cards are the main offensive weapon, but he's not limited to them, and that is something that will probably surprise Deadshot. I think the big questions lies in that can Deadshot effectively keep tabs on this guy with great avoidance while also avoiding his damage output that he knows how to use? I don't Floyd can do so for a majority.

"More or less" is a kind way of putting it ---- if memory serves, that fight was more Gambit and Daredevil hopping around on a rooftop than actual combat. Aforementioned agility was also great enough that Gambit was casually wrecked by Bullseye, someone Daredevil has stomped on at least 4 separate occasions. I don't get how the fact that Floyd has tagged people faster than Remy (and people like Captain Boomerang are better "avoiders" than Gambit by a country mile) doesn't matter, but the fact that Remy has avoided shots from people without Floyd's marksmanship seems to. Has Gambit been dodging shots from people who can identify weaknesses in his body and movements with one look? Who can ricochet shots off multiple surfaces and fire backwards, forwards, upside down and blindfolded and god knows what else? In a regular morals battle where Gambit doesn't know who he's fighting, what they're capable of, or what kind of protection they have, there's no reason he'd employ firepower any greater than he did against Moon Knight, Bullseye, Forge, Captain America, Neo and about two dozen other people he's fought, all of whom have taken hits from his cards and a lot of the time not even been stunned. It's in his nature to test the waters. It's not in Floyd's, and he's actually carrying around mini-RPG's with him as well.

The big question is how long Gambit has to test the waters until he figures out the amount of firepower and ability necessary to take out Floyd --- and the problem with that question is that Floyd doesn't like wasting time.

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#26 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: Fair points. One question, is that mini RPG standard equipment for Deadshot? I haven't admittedly read the story from which you posted that scan, but I've heard that Floyd brought that weapon there because he knew his foe in question had bullet proof skin, and I'm not sure I can recall other instances of Pre 52 Deadshot employing such a weapon.

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#27 Edited by RazzaTazz (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

Normally I would say Deadshot because it is really hard to dodge bullets, but as there is an abundance of cover, it would seem that the advantage goes to Gambit. The problem for Deadshot in this case would be line of sight. In order to hit Gambit he would need to see him straight on for a shot and with cover that is not going to happen. Gambit on the other hand can throw objects over obstacles, thus being able to at the very least to force Deadshot back (which comprises a win by the rules.) Essentially this comes down to a question of guns versus grenades and Gambit is going to win in that scenario more often than not. It might be equalized a bit if Deadshot had explosives in his disposal. If Gambit found a way to get to hand-to-hand combat distance, this would be over quickly.

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#28 Posted by judasnixon (6396 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted Gambit just because he's from New Orleans......... Got to go with the home team.

#29 Edited by Saren (25556 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: Fair points. One question, is that mini RPG standard equipment for Deadshot? I haven't admittedly read the story from which you posted that scan, but I've heard that Floyd brought that weapon there because he knew his foe in question had bullet proof skin, and I'm not sure I can recall other instances of Pre 52 Deadshot employing such a weapon.

The foe in question showed up out of thin air --- Floyd didn't know he was going to attack, but he was carrying the mini-RPG anyway. Here's another instance of the mini-RPG.

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#30 Posted by RisingBean (3804 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: I like that second scan. Deadshot lives by a quote Col. Jeff Cooper has made. "If you're fighting a fair fight, your tactics suck."

@wolverine08: Fair enough.

#31 Posted by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: Thank you for the confirmation mate.

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#32 Posted by k4tzm4n (38690 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren: You're making me really, really, reaaaaaaaally want to reread Deadshot vol. 2. So much badassery in that limited series.

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#33 Posted by SionistheBoss (246 posts) - - Show Bio

well, if u ask me, this is strangely close. to be honest, gambit should win just cus' his powers over rank Deadshot's. that said, when u look at Deadshot's arsenal, aim and relentless, almost brutal kill style, you see that not only will Slade not go down withought a fight, but the fight he puts up is incredible. I say tie...

#34 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5007 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit for a majority

#35 Posted by RustyRoy (11858 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: My notifications aren't working. By tomorrow I'll get like 100+ of them.

Mine aren't working either, the only time I get notification is when I mention myself.

#36 Posted by RustyRoy (11858 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot btw.

#37 Edited by Wolverine08 (40536 posts) - - Show Bio

well, if u ask me, this is strangely close. to be honest, gambit should win just cus' his powers over rank Deadshot's. that said, when u look at Deadshot's arsenal, aim and relentless, almost brutal kill style, you see that not only will Slade not go down withought a fight, but the fight he puts up is incredible. I say tie...

You're referring to another assassin mate.

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#38 Posted by reaverlation (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

Been convinced:Deadshot

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#39 Edited by DarthAznable (6312 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see Gambit getting tagged eventually.

#40 Edited by SionistheBoss (246 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

oh yah srry. don't even know how I confused that!:)

#41 Edited by Saren (25556 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n said:

@saren: You're making me really, really, reaaaaaaaally want to reread Deadshot vol. 2. So much badassery in that limited series.

Trenchcoats make everyone cooler.

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#42 Edited by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@k4tzm4n

You finally got something with my man.

I believe there are distinct advantages for Gambit here that allow him to win this

Gambit

Speed- Gambit has the clear advantage here being of superhuman speed and agility Gambit has kept up with Captain America and daredevil. Gambit has also kept up with and fought Dakon putting him in the Wolverine speed area, he may be slightly slower but in that area. hes also a very casual bullet dodger and has even dodged Iron Mans repulsar (if thats spelled right) beams

Energy Projection- I think we all know Gambit has this here. His ability to charge anything even organics is not well known and i blame AvX for that fallacy. He has charged many organics before. His Kinetic Charging allows him to throw his cards farther than most can

Stealth- not many people consider this to be a skill of Gambits but it is. He has broken into unbreakable vaults and has even slipped by Wolverine numerous times, I do believe that in this environment Gambit has the skills to beat deadshot

H2H- Gambit has the clear advantage here as with his staff he was able to stalemate daredevil and keep up with Captain America (still mad he lost that fight)

I think that with his speed and stealth he'll be able to up close and personal and take this fight where he has the advantage. especially in a city at night where there is plenty of cover and someone with his agility will have no trouble navigating it.

It's short and sweet but it gets to the point as to why Gambit wins. If you want some scans of Gambit just ask.

#43 Edited by k4tzm4n (38690 posts) - - Show Bio

@saren said:

@k4tzm4n said:

@saren: You're making me really, really, reaaaaaaaally want to reread Deadshot vol. 2. So much badassery in that limited series.

Trenchcoats make everyone cooler.

Trenchcoat battle of the month!

Staff Online
#44 Posted by Jacthripper (2442 posts) - - Show Bio

Gambit

#45 Posted by mak13131313 (538 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot

#46 Posted by godzilla44 (2908 posts) - - Show Bio

I was thinking Gambit at first but now Saren is changing my mind

#47 Edited by TheAmazingImmortalMan (2860 posts) - - Show Bio

Great Battle, Gambit vs Deadshot is extremely close. On the on hand we have Flowyd who is DC's most accurate assassin and as an added perk he has enhanced accuracy with his mask. DS is ruthless and boasts about not missing. Going at it with the likes of Bats and Catman. Deadshot has batted (and won) opponents who are extremely agile or really good at avoidance first person that comes to mind Captain Boomerang, To put it simply Lawton is no slouch.

Now the smooth X-Man. Gambit is among Marvel's most agile characters. He has energy projections and if he charges his Kinetic energy he can create concussive blasts that could spell bad news for his opponents. Remy can charge any object and turn it into a weapon, the most prominent Items is a deck of cards which he charges and throws it as they travel incredibly fast and hit pretty hard. His superhuman agility makes him a bullet dodger and allows him to avoid some hairy situations. His h2h is pretty good as well, you cannot be an X-man without knowing how to thro fisticuffs and he is a master with his staff which he can also charge with energy.

My verdict is that Remy takes it. Mainly because of his Superhuman agility which allows him to dodge bullets on a regular and he can answer back with projectiles of his own. If the fight gets closer than that just helps Remy even more. The best part for Gambit is he never runs out of Ammo either as anything can be made a weapon thanks to him being able to charge objects with energy. Flowyd is gonna make this tough because of his skill with a gun but thanks to Gambits uncanny abilities I believe he would take majority in 6/10.

#48 Posted by Edamame (28062 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, I would say Gambit.

#49 Edited by Darkseid_Prime (167 posts) - - Show Bio
With style, Petite... With style

#50 Posted by nigravirum1 (143 posts) - - Show Bio

Has anyone actually seen Deadshot go down and stay down? Cause he seems to recover from mortal wounds on a daily basis. LOL